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UA DEN May Go Down 19% - 37 Departures To Go  
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3359 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11252 times:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...united-s-tilton-defend-merger.html

According to this article UA is projected to cut 37 daily departures from Denver and go down capacity 19% from its own documents to "optimize" the flight networks. 19% seems pretty significant to me thats alot of seats.

Is it safe to say this is the WN effect and what WN had been planning for the whole time either UA or Frontier really reducing service. Looks like UA has less of a reason to fight in DIA now and WN is showing no signs of slowing

What routes will UA cut from DEN? I am thinking frequency and plane size cuts. 19% seats seems pretty significant but i think its mostly o&d from DEN to the leisure low fare destinations.

I think DEN-LHR will not come back next summer. Thats one easy one with ORD, EWR, IAD, IAH, LAX, and SFO service to LHR how many large or even medium sized cities in the UA system wont still have 1 stop service to LHR with that cut? I could definitely see Hawaii and/or Mexico take a hit in service as well. With IAH there are some Mexican cities that i could see cut and/or reduced.

But mostly I think they are trying to get out of the unprofitable frequency o&d heavy traffic markets of DEN-SNA, DEN-SLC, DEN-LAS, DEN-SEA, DEN-ONT, DEN-STL, DEN-MKE, DEN-MSP etc etc basically the routes where the prices are all set by WN and Frontier and UA is forced to price match probably even below their true operating costs. Of course they will still fly these routes for all the connecting passengers but less frequency and smaller planes, i think they are gonna focus less on trying to compete with the ultra low fares of o&d on these routes. DEN will be more about connecting passengers and less on o&d since it has such fierce LCC competition to deal with and rock bottom fares.

OR is this IAH being chosen over DEN for some connecting traffic and they are gonna keep the good fight against WN and Frontier on the short routes?

19% capacity cut is coming from somewhere and i bet we see seat increases to EWR and IAH so its gonna be really sightly more than a 19% cut when those get increased with all the additional traffic needed between two new hubs. I bet we see EWR-DEN for example I could see EWR going to something like 5x 757-300 service and 1x 767. This sounds much different than the recent CO giving up slots in EWR. They can clear out a few regional flights and/or replace flights with larger aircraft to not loose capacity. 19% capacity reduction is roughly 1 in 5 seats UA wants cut from DEN? I fear if UA cuts 1 in 5 seats they might be giving up some gates at DIA? This could start UA down a path of no return and WN might smell the blood in the water and really force UA to cut more if they add like crazy and can get more gates. I could see this really hurting UA in DEN based on what WN seems to want to do there. Is UA going to throw them the logs to really roast the fire up by giving them more gates and reducing seats/routes? The heat of competing against two hubs of LCCs might be too much for UA to handle.

What do you think? Its from UAs own documents so I would think although its not a guarantee it looks pretty likely that Denver will see some pretty significant UA reductions? Dont worry DEN area flyers i am sure that WN is more than willing to compensate UAs reductions and then some

[Edited 2010-09-01 23:49:09]

[Edited 2010-09-02 00:04:02]

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Thread starter):
What do you think? Its from UAs own documents so I would think although its not a guarantee it looks pretty likely that Denver will see some pretty significant UA reductions? Dont worry DEN area flyers i am sure that WN is more than willing to compensate UAs reductions and then some

This information comes from the same worst case scenario that UA/CO put together for CLE....unless there is another massive down turn (think 9/11) in air travel none of this will come to pass.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11088 times:
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Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Thread starter):
According to this article UA is projected to cut 37 daily departures from Denver and go down capacity 19% from its own documents to "optimize" the flight networks. 19% seems pretty significant to me thats alot of seats.

Is it safe to say this is the WN effect and what WN had been planning for the whole time either UA or Frontier really reducing service. Looks like UA has less of a reason to fight in DIA now and WN is showing no signs of slowing

I think you are jumping the gun.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11090 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):

This information comes from the same worst case scenario that UA/CO put together for CLE....unless there is another massive down turn (think 9/11) in air travel none of this will come to pass.

From what i understand UA/CO did this for ALL hubs, now some more likely than others(looking at you CLE), but at this point they are just running a bunch of what ifs.



yep.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11063 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 3):
Quoting United1 (Reply 1):

This information comes from the same worst case scenario that UA/CO put together for CLE....unless there is another massive down turn (think 9/11) in air travel none of this will come to pass.

From what i understand UA/CO did this for ALL hubs, now some more likely than others(looking at you CLE), but at this point they are just running a bunch of what ifs.

Pretty much every business has best to worst case scenario business plans in place just in case. That's what that document was part of UA/CO planning ahead just in case the unthinkable happens. I am positive that AA, DL and even WN all have plans in place to drastically cut capacity if they ever needed to.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11010 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):

Pretty much every business has best to worst case scenario business plans in place just in case. That's what that document was part of UA/CO planning ahead just in case the unthinkable happens. I am positive that AA, DL and even WN all have plans in place to drastically cut capacity if they ever needed to.

        

I would also say they have plans to add in the event a market opens up.



yep.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10988 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 5):
I would also say they have plans to add in the event a market opens up.

Exactly....I guarantee UA has plans in place to expand in ORD should AA ever pull back.

All the attorney released today was the doomsday scenario, it would be interesting to see the best case as well as middle of the road scenario...I bet DEN (and for that matter CLE) both have some level of growth in the best case plan.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10985 times:

First, as mentioned, this is at present a numbers crunching worst case exercise by UA/CO, so who knows how much of it will become reality. Although with these numbers going down, I'm sure in a best case scenario, DEN could easily see a 5-10 percent reduction just for efficiencies and synergies for the new UA/CO, and it would be expected with not that big of a deal. It would still leave DEN with over 300 flights daily.

Second, the numbers don't jive. Since DEN has about 400 flights, and the are reducing 37 flights, that's about 10 percent, not 19. Or if it's a 19 percent reduction, then that would be around 80 flights or so. Of course, they could just be referring to mainline, in which case I don't know the exact number of mainline to RJ flights (and don't want to go counting) the percentage would be high unless there's a 50-50 split with mainline to RJs, which I don't think is the percentage, it's higher mainline. But even so, if this is just mainline, what happens to all of the RJ flights?

ASSUMING that the new UA/CO just cuts and cuts and cuts in DEN, F9 and WN will be so happy and just add flights as needed since they're both pretty entrenched there as well.

I wonder what the best case report looks like, or even if there is one.


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10843 times:

Is this another case of bad reporting?

The exact quote in the article is
Joseph Alioto, a lawyer representing consumers in the suit, today showed Smisek internal Continental “Hub Stats” documents projecting “optimized” flight networks for the merged airline in various cities. For Denver, the document showed a reduction of 37 departures, a 19 percent cut.

“I don’t know what we’ll do because we haven’t done the optimization.”

That dosn't sounds like a worst case scenario from the way that they wrote it? It sounds like a guess at least by the way it was written. Nowhere reading that does it mention worst case scenario or emergency planning? Maybe its the lawyers who persuaded them to think these are facts by the way they said things? Is there info somewhere off a.net that this was a worst case scenario planning?


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10694 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 8):
That dosn't sounds like a worst case scenario from the way that they wrote it?

You are right about this. I guess reading the article too quickly and seeing the 9/11 references can lead to somewhat errant conclusions. After rereading, it looks like maybe this report could have some validity, although it probably is much too early to really reach any conclusions, because it seems that UA/CO have probably not finalized anything as such.

I'm still questioning the numbers though, is it 37 total flights of all of UA, mainline and RJs, or just mainline? How is the 19 percent derived? Until there is somehow a reconciling, at least with me, I'll just be trying to figure this out when I see it.

At any rate, I think there will be cuts at DEN, but with this scenario, either way it seems that it would still leave DEN with over 300 flights per day.

[Edited 2010-09-02 04:26:16]

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10129 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 8):
That dosn't sounds like a worst case scenario from the way that they wrote it? It sounds like a guess at least by the way it was written. Nowhere reading that does it mention worst case scenario or emergency planning? Maybe its the lawyers who persuaded them to think these are facts by the way they said things? Is there info somewhere off a.net that this was a worst case scenario planning?

It comes from the same document that the following thread was created about....

CO Doc Suggests Huge CLE Cuts Coming (by TOLtommy Aug 31 2010 in Civil Aviation)

net net...this is a worst case scenario projection (that was done for every hub.)



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3252 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10083 times:

Anyone who doesn't think there are going to be dramatic changes at underperforming hubs in the combined UA/CO hasn't really paid attention to DL/NW. There will be optimization and it will impact some hubs negatively. It will occur naturally over the first couple of years. DEN would seem to be at substantial risk because of the competitive environment and the network overlap that ORD and IAH provide as mid-continent east-west hubs.

The fact is, if UA is not performing well at DEN today, it will look to reallocate assets to hubs with better economics as merger synergies take hold. Given the competitive environment at DEN, it is likely that there are better options.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 10011 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 10):

It comes from the same document that the following thread was created about....

CO Doc Suggests Huge CLE Cuts Coming (by TOLtommy Aug 31 2010 in Civil Aviation)

net net...this is a worst case scenario projection (that was done for every hub.)

If one reads through the article, it really doesn't mention "worst case." but rather "optimization" which has kind of a different meaning.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9929 times:

This comes as no surprise. This is the main objective of mergers folks. Why not move flights to more cost effective hubs such as IAH if traffic flows support it and competition is less fierce. I am not saying DEN is going to close, but I always suspected some traffic would be lost to IAH.

During merger negotiations, route optimazation (which is probably the most interesting part of the merger team) is always a hot topic. Let's face it, DEN is not the cheapest airport to operate from and the battle for market share is fierce.

It would financially beneficial for the combined carrier to send more traffc through IAH. In fact, marginal routes could become much more profitable via IAH as opposed to via DEN.

DEN will continue to serve its purpose connecting PAX in the Rocky Mountain Region. However, I think Southwest (So Cal, So Nevada, AZ, NM, etc.) originating traffic flows will now connect via IAH to eastern destinations as opposed to via DEN.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9898 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 12):
If one reads through the article, it really doesn't mention "worst case." but rather "optimization" which has kind of a different meaning.

If one reads through the document, not the article, its the worst case "optimization" that was released by the attorney.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9821 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 14):
If one reads through the document, not the article, its the worst case "optimization" that was released by the attorney.

Okay cool, and thanks. Would you maybe know if or where the link to the document is?


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9819 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 14):
Quoting point2point (Reply 12):
If one reads through the article, it really doesn't mention "worst case." but rather "optimization" which has kind of a different meaning.

If one reads through the document, not the article, its the worst case "optimization" that was released by the attorney.

If it was released by the airline's attorney, then in reality, it is probably the BEST "worst case scenario". Attorneys are going to show the least amount of negative impacts in order to get the merger approved. If they stated that hubs were going to be eliminated or have drastic cuts in service, the regulators would not approve the deal.

US & DL painted similar pictures during their merger approval process.

The US merger is older and therefore easier to illustrate as an example. PIT is gone, the BOS, BWI focus cities are gone. They are trying to shed their LGA focus city as well. All of their point to point flying is being eliminated with the exception of DCA routes. Do you think the HP/US merger would have been approved if their attorneys presented this type of scenario to regulators? Keep in mind - US is profitable. They are not shedding routes because they are bleeding money like PA and EA had to do prior to their demise.

DL will follow down the same path as their integration and route optimization continues. CVG is already gone and MEM will be next.

[Edited 2010-09-02 10:48:23]

User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9782 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 7):
Second, the numbers don't jive. Since DEN has about 400 flights, and the are reducing 37 flights, that's about 10 percent, not 19. Or if it's a 19 percent reduction, then that would be around 80 flights or so.

Does DEN have 400 departures per day, or 400 flights total, departures + arrivals? Maybe that is the source of the confusion?


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9754 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
f it was released by the airline's attorney, then in reality, it is probably the BEST "worst case scenario". Attorneys are going to show the least amount of negative impacts in order to get the merger approved. If they stated that hubs were going to be eliminated or have drastic cuts in service, the regulators would not approve the deal.

It was released by an attorney who is suing UA and CO in order to block the merger....I believe its the same group who also sued to block DL/NW.

Quoting point2point (Reply 15):
Quoting United1 (Reply 14):
If one reads through the document, not the article, its the worst case "optimization" that was released by the attorney.

Okay cool, and thanks. Would you maybe know if or where the link to the document is?

There was a link yesterday posted in the CLE thread that I can't find anymore but heres an excerpt from a letter Smisek wrote.

"The reports were based on one of many simulations analyzed before the merger was announced, and modeled the most severe recession or disaster scenario. The simulation was promoted by the plaintiffs’ attorney in the trial of a lawsuit filed in California challenging the merger. "

You can read the entire letter, and maybe find the link, in the CLE thread...

CO Doc Suggests Huge CLE Cuts Coming (by TOLtommy Aug 31 2010 in Civil Aviation)#1



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 9680 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 17):
Does DEN have 400 departures per day, or 400 flights total, departures + arrivals? Maybe that is the source of the confusion?

Just departures is about 400, so arrivals and departures are about 800.

And based on passenger counts (don't know the exact aircraft count and too tedious to do counting) its about 60% mainline and 40% RJs.

And CO has about 12 or so departures, all mainline that last that I remember.

So the 37 flights cut with the 19% reduction seems off somehow, but since it is a legal document and submitted to a court, I'm guessing that the attorneys did their due diligence and wouldn't get something such as this wrong, would they?

The only possibility that I can think of is that it's 50-50 mainline to RJs (or was at some point, but that doesn't sound right either) and they are only looking at mainline? But then they seem to be leaving out the RJ number.


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 9645 times:

Just as in the CLE thread, UA/CO says there are scenarios for each hub that show the hubs staying even, or growing. Problem is, nobody has seen those reports, only the ones showing the cuts. Granted it is the attorneys who are opposed to the merger who are sharing this information. UA/CO could put all of this speculation to rest by releasing the other studies. It's that simple. Odds are, they will have to in court anyway to show that the cuts are not set in stone. So why not? Why not release it? Okay, you want to say that it's proprietary information, or subject to an NDC? Fine. But the CO customers in CLE are wondering if they should book CO, and the employees based there certainly want to know if they are going to have jobs. Odds are, there will be cuts as part of the merger. Ask anyone at NW/DL. The longer UA/CO says there is contridicting info, but fails to prove it, the more this looks like what should be expected. Personally, I think this is probably close to what should be expected.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 9643 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 18):

Thank you kindly and will do...  


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 9597 times:

actually it's a very smart thing for new UA/CO

DEN's purpose was :
1. east-west connection for all those big sky and plain states, but slightly west of the perfectly central spot of Kansas
2. low cost connector for popular ski resorts - instead of flying a 3 hour RJ from DFW, one can fly into DEN then take a short 30 min hop over to the ski resort

now, post-merger, a lot of more southern oriented east-west can routed through IAH instead. something like LAX-MSY or SFO-RSW is easily better via IAH.


User currently offlinesldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 9466 times:

And all this time I thought that UA had really turned DEN around and started focusing on key market yields (forget numbers..think profit).

I'm one of those that thinks that an RJ with E+ and first class really shouldn't be counted as an "RJ" departure.
(Flame retardant gear applied). It may be flown by a regional partner

There were 50 + continental elites waiting for upgrades on one flight alone this past weekend after the 12 that were already upgraded.

I wouldn't write DEN off just yet for UA. If anything, UA and F9 both offer value added services for people willing to pay for them as well as something to reward the frequent traveler (other than a free trip).

It wouldn't shock me if NEW markets/aircraft upgauging were added to DEN before this was all said and done.


User currently onlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 9320 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Thread starter):
Is it safe to say this is the WN effect and what WN had been planning for the whole time either UA or Frontier really reducing service. Looks like UA has less of a reason to fight in DIA now and WN is showing no signs of slowing

WN is only a secondary part of the issue. The real reason is that since DEN performs a similar function to the larger IAH, some traffic will move to IAH and its Latin America and oil route connections. Reducing capacity at DEN 19% will drive yields up somewhat. DEN has the capacity for lots of UAX flights while ORD and IAH have limited capacity for additional UAX flights. WN undermines CO at IAH from HOU, which is closer to town and serves a lot more destinations that WN at DEN, so it is more an internal reorganizing than a response to WN.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 22):
DEN's purpose was :
1. east-west connection for all those big sky and plain states, but slightly west of the perfectly central spot of Kansas

DEN was a key spot back in the days when the range of prop planes made it difficult for them to cross the Rockies from many points. KC is not as ideal for UA because it already has the big hub at ORD and MDW before that. DEN is just about the mid-point between UA's hubs at SFO and ORD so it worked out fairly well with the hubs fairly evenly spaced across the country. What hurt UA was that none of the hubs were fortress hubs and most are or have been back-to-back hubs with other airlines, most notably with AA at ORD.


25 point2point : I agree here. First, with about 410 UA/CO departures a day between mainline and RJs, even a 20 percent cut for both will still leave over 300 departu
26 airbazar : I don't think it has anything to do with WN. It's simply cutting the fat off of the combined UA/CO network. It doesn't necessarily have to be underpe
27 denverdanny : What about the agreement between the airport and United that United would increase flights in exchange for the forgiveness of debt related to the bagg
28 okie : Thanks P2P I was getting a little concerned that the CO side would pull down the UA side similar to AA pulling down STL after a few years. Still 19%
29 point2point : You're welcome. Who knows what the future holds here and how it will play out. DEN does hold a lot of pluses for the new UA/CO, and I think that shor
30 GlobalCabotage : As I suspected from the beginning, CLE would be the first to go and DEN would be next in line. ORD, IAH, and SFO don't need DEN as much as UA did with
31 drerx7 : DEN is not going anywhere. I can see it just being 'right sized' with southern transcons routed via IAH and northern transcons via DEN. IAH will make
32 deltaflyertoo : Just to add to this, and I don't have the exact article handy but I did read in several sources that the new United had HUGE plans for IAH and that t
33 Post contains images Super80DFW : First off, the flights from DFW to Colorado are anywhere from 1:50 to 2:25, not 3 hours. Secondly, during the winter season, AA runs multiple daily 7
34 EricR : Unfortunately, a lot of those destinations are flights to smaller cities with small amounts of traffic. Yes, I know that there are also flights to lo
35 jetlanta : By underperforming, I mean in relation to the hubs that it is competing with, like IAH. If IAH performs better, that is where the consolidation will
36 1337Delta764 : I wonder, how will DEN-ABQ be affected? WN quickly gained a leading market share on DEN-ABQ ever since they began the route. After all, many people in
37 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : In regards to this being the worst case scenario? No way is 19% capacity reduction the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is WN and Frontier
38 Post contains images point2point : All I can do is quote the famous philosopher of the ages "it is what it is;" 1 Albuquerque 2 Anchorage 3 Appleton 4 Aspen 5 Atlanta 6 Austin 7 Bakers
39 United1 : Your scenario really isn't a realistic scenario that needs to be planned for...hence COs 19% projected worst case scenario cut is about as bad as the
40 okie : That may be true but look what DL did with DFW which was not a hub per se but pretty much abandon there base except for connections to ATL. So you co
41 CWAFlyer : DEN-MKE is an at risk market for SkyWest. I'm not sure why UA would want to drop that or even care.
42 ArmchairAnalyst : And yet again back to one of a.net's favorite sports, "which hub will close after X and Y merge." First, let's start with the DL/NW merger. 1. Ever s
43 point2point : That could maybe be true, but as one can see by the list of cities above, I guess F9 or WN will be glad to connect those passengers from Arkansas tha
44 mariner : I hope they're not. Or rather, I don't care what they do at Southwest, but I hope the folk at Frontier are being more level headed about this. marine
45 PacificClipper : From what I understand, the "hub optimization" figures were prepared by CO before the merger was officially approved and without full disclosure from
46 Post contains images point2point : LOL - This sound so somber. I seriously doubt that F9 is going to bother with a funeral if by some far off chance that the new UA/CO would abandon DE
47 Antoniemey : There was a time, not so long ago, when no one thought CO would dehub DEN. And not so long before that, no one thought they would dehub LAX. Stuff ha
48 mariner : I would fall over in shock if United/Continental does that. We have been here before. When United filed Chapter 11 (and there was no Southwest at DEN
49 point2point : I seriously doubt it will happen either. Even if UA/CO cut the drastic 20 percent or so, that still leaves well over 300 flights per day at DEN. That
50 Schweigend : Yes, it will. DL has been optimizing its fleets and routes, to good effect, as we have seen. CO currently connects East Coast - West Coast traffic th
51 point2point : A lot has been said about the competition at DEN, and that this could POSSIBLY be a factor in future UA/CO decisions here. Below is all of the cities
52 sldispatcher : The proof says that under current economic conditions, all 3 majors at DEN are surviving. As long as UA doesn't pull a Delta at DFW and start downsizi
53 drerx7 : I think that it is a little bit of all you have said. I think you will see some upgauging in places via 752s and some widebodies sprinkled to the hub
54 EricR : Good try, unfortunately your list also includes the destinations flown by WN and F9. Strip out those destinations also served by WN/F9 and you will s
55 sldispatcher : And the point is? That would be extremely important if UA was depending soley on those "smaller sized" cities. But the fact of the matter is that the
56 EricR : The point is that the remaining cities not served by WN / F9 are smaller sized cities Exactly, and that is what I said in reply 34 which you apparent
57 TOMMY767 : Is UA/CO trying to turn DEN into more of a DL at SLC operation? (SLC has less freqencies to fewer destinations then DEN.) Sorry I don't see UA turning
58 EricR : I don't think DEN will be eliminated, but I can definately see it being "right sized". With higher operating costs and more LCC competition than IAH,
59 mariner : There's the key. And there has already been a realignment at DEN, by United. Up until Southwest came to DEN, it was United's most profitable hub. Whe
60 point2point : Thank you Okay, while they may be smaller sized cities, it may also be worth noting that the majority of these cities are in a geographical area west
61 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : UA has cut seats at DEN in the last year and WN has continued to add seats UA has lost market share as WN has continued and continues to gain markets
62 Post contains images mariner : I don't think I said they are. I don't think Frontier is going to stop adding flights and destinations, either, they just added an exotic one this we
63 sldispatcher : Well which is it? UA had the business traveler BEFORE Southwest. Unless it is a skewed VFR traffic....most elites = most business I'm not trying to b
64 EricR : You are welcome. connect via SFO Connect via LAX or SFO Precisely my point...Montana/Wyoming = small sized locations The area of the country that nee
65 Post contains links and images point2point : Really? Come on now, be serious.... In a region of growing, geographically somewhat isolated cities, and in places with higher per capita than the na
66 EricR : Based on this comment, I can tell you know nothing about connection opportunities to "anywhere California" as you stated above. Many of the "anywhere
67 Post contains images point2point : Please know that no argument is intended, just discussion. There can very well likely be divergent and a big range of contributions to the discussion
68 Post contains images enilria : This thing feels more like a bankruptcy than a merger. OK, I know something of these types of analysis. The most important thing I'd toss in is that
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