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Boeing Predicts CSeries Has Rough Road Ahead  
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14644 times:

To me, this sounds more cautionary than a prediction but he certainly has a point. Recent aircraft projects have been poster children for delays and broken promises. So far, BBD seems to have things under control but will it last? Can they keep their suppliers in line better than Boeing has? Can the CSeries fulfill its promises and perform better than re-engined competitors?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100902/business/boeing_bombardier

Quote:
While stopping short of suggesting that delivery of the new 100- to 125-seat version will be delayed beyond 2013 as promised by Bombardier, Boeing vice-president Randy Tinseth said its Montreal-based rival is only just entering a phase in the plane's development that could cause it grief.

"They are bringing in partners that they haven't used before and partners in China and around the world and that just adds risk to the whole program," the marketing executive said Thursday during a media update.



What the...?
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14268 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 3):
The next 18 months I'm sure will be very telling for BBD but if they keep their nose to the grindstone things should work out just fine.

where's the "like" button on here....oh wait, I already said that.

I agree. I am of the belief that "slow and steady wins the race". It will be interesting to see where BBD's gamble will take them. In the long run, I am optimistic. Once they have the C Series under their belt, I hope we see a new turboprop line from BBD that can efficiently go below 50 pax. How many sub-50 seaters need replacing?!



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14167 times:

Tinseth is trying to create doubts about the CSeries in the industry. It's not so innocent IMO.

User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14146 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 8):
Tinseth is trying to create doubts about the CSeries in the industry. It's not so innocent IMO.

Yeah I was also just thinking that as well, bit of a poison pill? Try to stir up the pot, its a dangerous game to play but as has been said; pot and kettle certainly come to mind.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5624 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14146 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 8):
Tinseth is trying to create doubts about the CSeries in the industry. It's not so innocent IMO.

Of course its not innocent. Doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

Personally, I found his specific mention of China to be interesting. Was this to cast doubt on quality, spark protectionist sentiments, or simply an "it is what it is" statement?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14120 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 8):
Tinseth is trying to create doubts about the CSeries in the industry.

Bombardier's sales team is taking care of that. Seriously, where are the orders?


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5624 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14108 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):
Bombardier's sales team is taking care of that. Seriously, where are the orders?

I think they needed something in the 130-160 seat market more than the lower end where they are at now.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14095 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
the marketing executive said

Me thinks somebody speaketh bollocks. Let's not forget Tinseth's current function is in marketing. Any statements such as the one in the OP should be taken with a boulder of salt or ignored altogether. Is BBD going to encounter problems? Yes. Is the the supply chain a risk factor? Yes. Will the C-Series be late? Chances are greater than zero.

To me this seems like a sheepish effort to deflect away from Boeing's own woes while subliminally reminding carriers that the 737 (re-engined or not) is proven while the C-series is not. Smart.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5624 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

Well, you say this:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 14):
Me thinks somebody speaketh bollocks. Let's not forget Tinseth's current function is in marketing. Any statements such as the one in the OP should be taken with a boulder of salt or ignored altogether.

But Randy said this:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
Quote:
While stopping short of suggesting that delivery of the new 100- to 125-seat version will be delayed beyond 2013 as promised by Bombardier, Boeing vice-president Randy Tinseth said its Montreal-based rival is only just entering a phase in the plane's development that could cause it grief.

"They are bringing in partners that they haven't used before and partners in China and around the world and that just adds risk to the whole program," the marketing executive said Thursday during a media update.

and you said this:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 14):
Is BBD going to encounter problems? Yes. Is the the supply chain a risk factor? Yes. Will the C-Series be late? Chances are greater than zero.

Sounds like you basically agree with him. Am I missing something?

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
Well it's clear where your allegiances stand but I would urge a little caution. To continue your sports analogy theme how about one from up north, "you're only as good as your last shift."

My thoughts went exactly the same place Planemaker's did:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 16):
Have you looked at the delay on the CRJ1000... and that is a fairly simple stretch (for a 3rd time). Or did you look at the EIS delays of the Q400 (another fairly simple stretch) and the many problems it had at EIS?

Seriously, the CRJ1000 seemed like a slamdunk. It's essentially a 737-900 in BBD's world. Perhaps some additional differences, but certainly nothing on par with the CSeries, or even the BRJX or whatever it was.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5077 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13334 times:

BBD seems better managed than the current bozos at Boeing. I would love to see BBD shine on this, and prove the nay sayers wrong. I like everything about the C series, and really look forward to flying on it. And that bird is going to look sexy in F9 colors!!!!


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13288 times:

The Bombardier stock price is taking all kinds of blows. There is only three things the markets are betting on: Business Jets margins, CSeries, and Bombardier Transportation rail margins. At about 100 deliveries per year (if that can be maintained) for the Q400 and CRJs combined which are less than two months of A320.B737 production, the Commercial Aircraft Division is poised to exist or seize to exist if BBD can deliver what it says on the CSeries. If they hint tht there may be a slight delay, it will get ugly as the A380, B787 reminders are there.


Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13278 times:

I think that this is a complete nonstory. Tinseth's comments boil down to two facts: first, building a new airliner is hard and second, it isn't over until the customers get their planes. Basically I think that this is propaganda from Boeing saying that they aren't the only ones that face challenges.

Of course, the guy from Bombardier said something about "ample time." Of course, we all know how quickly that might vaporize.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1581 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13253 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 27):
Of course, we all know how quickly that might vaporize.

Time flies when you're having fun. Time flies even faster when you're running late.

I agree, if people would read without pre-deciding what the post means, it's just basically a statement that new aircraft production programs are full of challenges, both technical and scheduling. If Embraer were trying to build a new plane in the 737's size class, the comments probably would have mentioned them too.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlinekaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13232 times:

I can understand why Randy Tinseth is making such a prediction (assumption would be a better term) based on Boeing's experience with a lot of first time suppliers (Vought anyone?). Honestly, it is a fair assumption, after all, it has happened to both biggest aircraft makers and Bombardier are following a similar route.

The main difference is that, while Airbus and Boeing have been very aggressive with their projects, taking plenty of risks regarding technology implementation, timelines and of course, selection of suppliers, Bombardier have been a lot more cautious. A supplier messing up will certainly cause a few headaches but I don't think the CSeries will suffer from the embarrassment we've been so accustomed to recently with the A380 and 787.



I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13173 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 26):
The Bombardier stock price is taking all kinds of blows.
Aircraft deliveries fell to 46 in the latest quarter from 80 in the year-ago period.

Bombardier's Class B shares, which have lost nearly 21 percent of their value in the last six months, closed at C$4.44 Tuesday on the Toronto Stock Exchange.

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 28):
I agree, if people would read without pre-deciding what the post means, it's just basically a statement that new aircraft production programs are full of challenges, both technical and scheduling. If Embraer were trying to build a new plane in the 737's size class, the comments probably would have mentioned them too.

The E180... anyone?  

[Edited 2010-09-03 10:57:57 by srbmod]


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13065 times:

The CSeries is to a large degree responsible for the upgrading hooplah at both Boeing and Airbus. Until the CSeries program got the GTF, both Boeing and Airbus were saying that no major changes to to their narrow body planes would happen this decade. Both of them have mentioned that the CSeries is part of what is spurring them to do something about their narrow bodies.

Now, it's being decided this year. Regardless of how well the CSeries does in the future, it is already having an impact.

Tinseth would be a rather crappy salesman if he talked about how well a competitor might be able to replace 25% of his current offerings. Still, he never specifically ran down the CSeries or the program. He basically said there is plenty of hard work to come and there is lots of potential for problems.

Really....what else is he going to say...? He still wants to sell 73G's. It would be a lot harder to do if he goes crazy talking up the CSeries.

What is interesting is that Boeing, or Airbus is mentioning the CSeries at all. The fact that it is even on the radar indicates that maybe it's a bit of a threat after all. If it was nothing, they would say nothing about it.



What the...?
User currently offlineCentre From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12958 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 2):
Tinseth is trying to create doubts about the CSeries in the industry. It's not so innocent IMO.

Wasn't he the one who criticized the A380 for being too quiet? After all he works for Boeing marketing department.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
, I found his specific mention of China to be interesting. Was this to cast doubt on quality, spark protectionist sentiments, or simply an "it is what it is" statement?

I thought the same, but China is on road of becoming one of the biggest purchaser of airliners down the road... You still need to be courteous to your clients.



I have cut 4 times, and it's still short.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12959 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 16):
The CSeries is to a large degree responsible for the upgrading hooplah at both Boeing and Airbus.

Actually it is the GTF and the Leap-X.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 16):
Until the CSeries program got the GTF, both Boeing and Airbus were saying that no major changes to to their narrow body planes would happen this decade.

Without a new engine A or B obviously couldn't do anything this decade... and the without the GTF the CSeries was deader than a door knob. But It was the GTF... AND the Leap-X that is responsible for A and B looking at re-engining not just the GTF.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 16):
What is interesting is that Boeing, or Airbus is mentioning the CSeries at all. The fact that it is even on the radar indicates that maybe it's a bit of a threat after all. If it was nothing, they would say nothing about it.

What are they suppose to do when a reporter asks them about the CSeries. Saying nothing about it is not an option.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently onlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12401 times:

Meanwhile, discussions with QR about an order for the C-series are back on track according to this FI article:
The same article mentions BBJ expects "one or more orders" before year-end. That's not overly optimistic IMHO. About the number as Boeing has been quoted expecting for the 748i...   

[Edited 2010-09-03 01:56:19]


146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12223 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 18):
Without a new engine A or B obviously couldn't do anything this decade... and the without the GTF the CSeries was deader than a door knob. But It was the GTF... AND the Leap-X that is responsible for A and B looking at re-engining not just the GTF.

Agreed + Introducing those more efficient engines on aircraft that are non Airbus Boeing. That pushed them out of their comfort zone.



User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1610 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11811 times:

There are alot of threads on this (737)sector flying around on this discusssion board.And so there should be! It's the biggest deal since sliced bread. The public comments are comming thick and fast.A&B are now weeks away from their public statements on what they intend to do.

The fact that it is now only weeks clearly means (in engineering terms) that the key decisions must have been taken already. Today everything (in terms of public statements) is pointing to Boeing launching a replacement to the 737.God I was just riding my first bike when it came out so it's very exciting.

It would be mad for any airline to place a big bet on the "C" when they only have to wait a few weeks to find out what the alternative is (and therefore a nice price stick to beat the manufacturers with).

Frigatebird above posted a very good link I felt.So P&W state 20% running cost savings for the Purepower - and the airline wants (but has not been getting) this in writing.Very telling I think.

It's ben a long hard road for Boeing - learning how to build a carbon plane.But I feel they now have it licked.Bombardier have no where near the experience - one notes that the MRJ backed out of this potental(carbon) nightmare senario.Very sensible I think. Personally I am not even certain that Airbus have the complete wealth of understanding necessary - Hence the NEO for now.When they have the 350 engineering sorted they will be ready to follow Boeing.But not quite yet.(Again sensible).

I think what we are going to see is a "mini" 787 for the 797.Perhaps not the most exciting route.But one that everyone will believe that they can deliver.But with all the benefits of carbon including of course weight and fully optimised wings - who could beat it?


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9374 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 20):
Agreed + Introducing those more efficient engines on aircraft that are non Airbus Boeing. That pushed them out of their comfort zone.

The GTF CSeries and C919 has provided some impetus. However, even before the engines were available some airlines were already clamoring for all-new NBs. And one only has to go through past threads to see that majority on A.net argued vociferously that Boeing was going to EIS Y1 in 2010-12.

Quoting parapente (Reply 21):
Frigatebird above posted a very good link I felt.So P&W state 20% running cost savings for the Purepower - and the airline wants (but has not been getting) this in writing.Very telling I think.

One should take "cost savings" as relative... as it varies from airline to airline significantly. For example, for the same NB there is a 100% CASM difference in the US.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8971 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
I found his specific mention of China to be interesting. Was this to cast doubt on quality, spark protectionist sentiments, or simply an "it is what it is" statement?

I think it was mostly "it is what it is." Bombardier is introducing some new partners for major portions of the aircraft and Boeing knows, more than anybody else at the moment, how risky that could be. It could also be fantastic...only time will tell.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9):
BBD seems better managed than the current bozos at Boeing.

At the equivalent point in 787 development, Boeing management could do no wrong either. Randy's point that Bombardier is just getting into the risky phase of development is true, although obviously posted with an agenda.

Quoting Centre (Reply 17):
Wasn't he the one who criticized the A380 for being too quiet?

He didn't exactly criticize, more pointed out that this was a possible customer issue. And it turned out he was at least partly right...there have been a couple of people (at tiny tiny fraction) who aren't connected with Boeing who have said publicly that it's "too quiet" in the sense that you can be disturbed by other passengers more than you can on most other aircraft.

Tom.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8746 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 8):
Sounds like you basically agree with him. Am I missing something?

I concede that the possibility of him being right is there but nothing more at this point. That's not unreasonable.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 8):
My thoughts went exactly the same place Planemaker's did:

I'm not taking away Boeing's achievements from them. I'm simply saying that things have, of late, been rocky.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlinebravo1six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8525 times:

Quoting kl671 (Reply 15):
Bombardier's Class B shares, which have lost nearly 21 percent of their value in the last six months, closed at C$4.44 Tuesday on the Toronto Stock Exchange.
© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette

And currently trading at $4.81 (as at 11:45 Eastern). That's up 7% or so since the "not good" quarterly financials.

Quoting kl671 (Reply 15):
That is your opinion and conjecture based on no knowledge of just how much Boeing knows about BBD. You really haven't a clue how much they know, you really don't.

That's right, gang. BBD HQ is filled with Boeing spies who know everything and anything about Bombardier. No doubt Agent 707 is at this very moment rappelling down the side of the HQ in his tuxedo to bug the senior management offices.

I messed up the quotes somehow - I intended to quote planemaker. Apologies.

[Edited 2010-09-03 09:22:41]

25 Post contains links Boeing1970 : For starters, I don't think any of you have even bothered to read the article. Not one of you. The original poster also decided it appropriate to leav
26 bravo1six : A voice of reason emerges from all the noise. Kudos.
27 planemaker : Decreased airliner revenue, profits and deliveries... and a dieing CRJ product line = NOT GOOD no matter how you try to spin it! Funny satire... but
28 tdscanuck : Nothing so brazen, but *all* OEM's have a competitive intelligence/competitive analysis division that analyzes everything coming out of the competito
29 bravo1six : If you say it enough times does it eventually become true? It is often said that there are no secrets in this business, which is no doubt true to a c
30 kanban : Boeing also has had staff assisting developing manufacturers (we even had Airbus personnel in Renton) for years believing that competition brings inn
31 bravo1six : Indeed they do. But even the best competitve intelligence group doesn't get all of the picture, or get the deepest darkest secrets. Any analysis will
32 BlueSky1976 : Well, Boeing once said that they will make sure A320 fails on the market. And look where it is now... Another PR BS by Randy II, that's all.
33 PlanesNTrains : Sure. I'm not talking Boeing's achievements either. I'm talking BBD's challenges. From my perspective, they are very talented, but also slightly behi
34 BMI727 : Tinseth did not comment on how well he thought Bombardier would handle the challenges. He just said that there are challenges. There will have to be
35 JoeCanuck : Actually, the opening poster both read the entire article and linked to the article so others could read the entire thing as well. Copy and pasting t
36 pnwtraveler : A Boeing or Airbus spokesman, or any spokesman for an airliner company for that matter, who said that Bombardier or any competitor, had an excellent p
37 planemaker : Decreased airliner revenue, profits and deliveries... and a dieing CRJ product line = NOT GOOD. Nothing you write can alter that. I never said what y
38 Tangowhisky : Funny no one responded to that. Bombardier created the small Regional Jet concept, built a huge customer base, and with the death of Dornier and BAe,
39 planemaker : BTW, BBD announced at the qtrly conference call that CSeries development costs and capital investments estimates have gone up to $3.4 billion from th
40 Post contains images lightsaber : This is marketing FUD pure and simple. If Bombardier can gain enough orders to convince the market that this isn't 717 mark2... Boeing and Airbus wou
41 LAXDESI : The $3.4 billion number is much lower than the $10 billion that is estimated for 737/320 replacement. I wonder what explains such a large difference.
42 Post contains images planemaker : Sincere congrats!! I don't know when you started R&D but from "cutting" metal to EIS i imagine it was on schedule... for sure better than any oth
43 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. I wish I had thought of it earlier... Seriously, I wonder if the C-series will play the role of the L1011 by changing the market without b
44 PW100 : Well, at least the C-series has the benefit of being designed around a revolutionary powerplant from day one, a powerplant which much future potentia
45 aircellist : I thought exactly the same, all those years that Bombardier hesitated and agonized over "to launch or not to launch"... Although, to be honest, launc
46 Dash9 : The ERJ fuselage is much narrower than the CRJ so it could not really be stretched much. Since the RJ market was moving towards bigger jets, Embraer
47 Post contains images lightsaber : If you know the long term plans for on wing cycle life, than you understand how effing conservative the design is. Pratt wants the JT8D mark 2. I hop
48 BMI727 : I suspect we will see that once Airbus and Boeing nail down their plans. Right now, the airlines aren't quite sure what is behind doors 2 and 3.
49 planemaker : I don't think that is bold at all. And with the extra time GE would have simply continued to churn out profitable CFMs while P&W would have conti
50 Tangowhisky : And Bombardier should have stopped after the CRJ700, and start a new platform for the 70+ seats because "......the RJ market was moving bigger jets"
51 Post contains images keesje : Quick powerpoint. "Damaged" it with a fly to prevent it taken too seriously ?
52 Post contains images lightsaber : That could be true. I say 'could be' only because I would have expected quite a few C-series orders by now. See my new signature. Lightsaber
53 aircellist : Congratulations!
54 2175301 : Congratulations - and may the baby (and parents) have a great flight ahead of them.
55 PlanesNTrains : Why would they choose the 900 when they already fly the E195? Just curious. One measure might be ROI. Not sure where each of the programs ends up in
56 Post contains images LAXDESI : Congratulations. I know the feeling as I have experienced it thrice. Get some rest, and stop spending so much time on this forum.
57 Tangowhisky : Airlines like Flybe were the types of operators that had to refleet given the end of BAe and the RJ-146 that were in their fleets. it was not obvious
58 Dash9 : ROI is my preferred way to measure 'right'. BBD is a company which role is to provide profit to it shareholders. The CRJ stretching was cheap to do a
59 PlanesNTrains : I guess I am missing the point that you made about the E175. If they already owned the E195, why would they look to the CRJ900? If your argument is t
60 Tangowhisky : ROI whether you are using % or $$'s on these stretched programs of 50 builds a year is the MAIN reason why the stock tanked from $25 to less than $5
61 JoeCanuck : In the past 5 years, BBD.B stock has been at a high of just over 8 dollars and is now about 4.70. In the same period, Boeing stock was at a high of o
62 Tangowhisky : True, but you are looking at a small window in time that had a MAJOR meltdown. Look at the same stocks during some expansions and contractions. Boein
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