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Brazilian Aviation News 7  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 18486 times:
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As the Number 6 reach the 250 posts mark, it's time to open a new one !



Enjoy the website

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
251 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 18670 times:
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News:

- AA decided to begin DFW-GIG only on December 16. Flight is available on GDS now.

AA251 DFW 1945 GIG 1025 B763 - Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays
AA250 GIG 2315 DFW 0615 B763 - Wed, Frid, Sundays

No info or reason on the delay, seems that it's just because to allow extra advance bookings

- TAM to offer a lot of extra flights during the next weekend (Independence Day in Brazil on September 7)

Quoting RodRB (Reply 251):
That simple solution would solve many of Rio's transit problems . Rio Train System (Supervia) has 89 stations, more than 2x bigger than Rio Subway system, and serves a few cities inside the metro area.

I call it simple, cause it doesn't need any major intervention. The roads are there and the demand is extremely huge. Why don't do it? The buses companies don't let? Is there no money? or...they don't want to spend a lot of money in order to benefit the poor people that spend 2 hours to get home?!

I agree with your point of view. More investments on this and the city would be able to manage better the traffic.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18603 times:

TAM shares keep climbing:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...od-for-companies-mantega-says.html

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
I agree with your point of view. More investments on this and the city would be able to manage better the traffic.

I also agree with RodRB that Rio's SuperVia should become an integral part of the solution of Rio's traffic. But I think Government has realised this and they are investing more. The other day I read 34 new trains will arrive in 2011 for SuperVia:

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2010...seguranca-bagageiros-916786725.asp

You can follow a good discussion on Rio's SuperVia here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=843262&page=56


Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
- TAM to offer a lot of extra flights during the next weekend (Independence Day in Brazil on September 7)

It will be a busy week in Brazil a lot of flights sold out. I think all eyes will be on GOL due to the problems of the last holiday period.

Rgs,

[Edited 2010-09-03 01:30:28]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18438 times:
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Some news from WebJet (Hardi, these flights are for you!)

Eff December 2nd 2010.

WEB 5702 POA 0632 IGU 0755 0830 CNF 1040 B733 Daily
WEB 5703 CNF 1930 IGU 2140 2210 POA 2330 B733 Daily

WEB 5704 POA 0640 RAO 0825 B733 Daily
WEB 5705 RAO 2205 POA 2350 B733 Daily

WEB 5706 POA 0830 BSB 1103 B733 Daily
WEB 5707 BSB 2100 POA 2330 B733 Daily

WEB 5722 SSA 0735 BSB 0933 1009 RAO 1125 1200 CWB 1315 B733 Daily
WEB 5723 CWB 1415 RAO 1530 16h00 BSB 1716 1756 SSA 1940 B733 Daily

WEB 5738 GIG 1505 NVT 1630 1700 POA 1815 B733 Daily
WEB 5739 POA 1115 NVT 1230 1300 GIG 1425 B733 Daily

And they will suspend the following daily services.

WEB6702 POA-GIG-BSB
WEB6703 BSB-POA-GIG
WEB6704 GIG-BSB
WEB6705 BSB-GIG



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 565 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 18435 times:



Quoting hardiwv (Reply 2):
TAM shares keep climbing:


In addition, there are gaps in the Brazil-Europe, Brazil-Asia and Europe-Asia markets that JJ could fill. As a Star member, JJ has partners at all points of the routes GRU-BRU-NRT, GRU-VIE and GRU-ATH.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
And they will suspend the following daily services.

WEB6702 POA-GIG-BSB
WEB6703 BSB-POA-GIG
WEB6704 GIG-BSB
WEB6705 BSB-GIG


Instead of suspending that route, they could be the one to operate a late-night flight from GIG to BSB so BA passengers going to BSB could use GIG as a transfer point.

[Edited 2010-09-03 22:08:37]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 18395 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 2):
It will be a busy week in Brazil a lot of flights sold out. I think all eyes will be on GOL due to the problems of the last holiday period.

I believe they will run just a few charters.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 4):
Instead of suspending that route, they could be the one to operate a late-night flight from GIG to BSB so BA passengers going to BSB could use GIG as a transfer point.

AFAIK, the GIG-BSB product will return later, but for the upcoming peak season, it's more important to have earlier service from GIG to BSB, but i agree with you that WebJet could focus to offer more to int'l customers, but BA also need to increase the offer as 3x weekly is not enough.

But i liked how they tried to offer something new:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
WEB 5722 SSA 0735 BSB 0933 1009 RAO 1125 1200 CWB 1315 B733 Daily
WEB 5723 CWB 1415 RAO 1530 16h00 BSB 1716 1756 SSA 1940 B733 Daily

First BSB-RAO and first RAO-CWB, two interesting routes and RAO is becoming a kind of small focus city, WebJet is establishing a new base with 4 daily flights (2 arrivals/2 departures) connecting 3 markets (Curitiba, Porto Alegre and Brasilia) while TAM only offers Sao Paulo. We may expect the first RAO-GIG !

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
WEB 5702 POA 0632 IGU 0755 0830 CNF 1040 B733 Daily
WEB 5703 CNF 1930 IGU 2140 2210 POA 2330 B733 Daily

First CNF-IGU ! Another new destination for CNF. Just during the past 30/60 days CNF got BEL, MAO, PVH and now IGU !

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
WEB 5704 POA 0640 RAO 0825 B733 Daily
WEB 5705 RAO 2205 POA 2350 B733 Daily

Stronger & Stronger Ribeirao Preto area !

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
WEB 5738 GIG 1505 NVT 1630 1700 POA 1815 B733 Daily
WEB 5739 POA 1115 NVT 1230 1300 GIG 1425 B733 Daily

The GIG-NVT isn't good for int'l flights, but the NVT-GIG is very interesting for AF afternoon departure and late afternoon flights to Europe such as IB, second AF and TP.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18387 times:
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Strange, but something is going on with DTW-GRU flight. Operations seems to begin only by December 17, and i did not check on a fare class, but flights are not available after February and it seems DL extended DL104 to sell as GRU-ATL-DTW.

It seems now a seasonal flight.

Am i wrong ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18343 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
WEB 5738 GIG 1505 NVT 1630 1700 POA 1815 B733 Daily
WEB 5739 POA 1115 NVT 1230 1300 GIG 1425 B733 Daily
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
The GIG-NVT isn't good for int'l flights, but the NVT-GIG is very interesting for AF afternoon departure and late afternoon flights to Europe such as IB, second AF and TP.

Lipe, GIG-NVT O&D alone can keep the flight doing well. WEBJET will certainly sell a lot of holiday packages for cariocas wanting to spend their holidays in this area of SC. It is good for market diversification. You have Balneario Camboriu, Itajai, Blumenau, and attractions such as Betto Carreiro World, all served by NVT catchament area. WEBJET flight will also allow for connections via GIG to important markets such as CNF and SSA.

G3 launched GIG-NVT at a bad time because the schedule was exactly when the airport closed for renovation of runway. G3 is now flying GIG-NVT-GIG esporatically and with new provisional timetable GIG-NVT 5.00 and NVT-GIG 11.00. The normal schedule is GIG-NVT 22.00 and NVT-GIG 11.00. This means WEBJET schedule will not compete with G3 but rather offer a good alternative with GIG departure in mid-afternoon and NVT departure early afternoon. It will be perfect for the busy holiday period.

Note also that WEBJET will also cash on the rising service NVT-POA which AD already operates twice daily with high fares. This is another importat market increasing everyday and still underserved.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Some news from WebJet (Hardi, these flights are for you!)

What can I say, you made my weekend, Lipe! Thanks  
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
WEB 5702 POA 0632 IGU 0755 0830 CNF 1040 B733 Daily
WEB 5703 CNF 1930 IGU 2140 2210 POA 2330 B733 Daily

WEB 5704 POA 0640 RAO 0825 B733 Daily
WEB 5705 RAO 2205 POA 2350 B733 Daily

WEB 5706 POA 0830 BSB 1103 B733 Daily
WEB 5707 BSB 2100 POA 2330 B733 Daily

WEB 5722 SSA 0735 BSB 0933 1009 RAO 1125 1200 CWB 1315 B733 Daily
WEB 5723 CWB 1415 RAO 1530 16h00 BSB 1716 1756 SSA 1940 B733 Daily
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
First CNF-IGU

And the first POA-IGU and POA-RAO nonstop, right? It will eat into Passaredo market which offers RAO-POA via CWB. Very good developments.

Rgs,


User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18303 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
Strange, but something is going on with DTW-GRU flight. Operations seems to begin only by December 17, and i did not check on a fare class, but flights are not available after February and it seems DL extended DL104 to sell as GRU-ATL-DTW.

It seems now a seasonal flight.

Am i wrong ?

Lipe, I have just checked and, from March 2011, DTW-GRU is downgraded to 2 weekly. DL205 DTW-GRU flies 2 weekly on Sundays and Thursdays; while DL204 GRU-DTW flies 2 weekly on Mondays and Fridays. All with the B763 nonstop. The dates seem selected to operate on business-oritented, although I question how sustainable is a 2 weekly flight. But the fact DL operates a many flights into GRU allows DL to sell DTW-ATL-GRU 5 weekly while DTW-GRU 2 weekly. Iguess the ultimate purpose will be to help DL to take pressure off the heavy bookings on ATL-GRU on busy days.

Rgs,

[Edited 2010-09-04 08:48:48]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18286 times:
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Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 4):
JJ has partners at all points of the routes GRU-BRU-NRT, GRU-VIE and GRU-ATH.

GRU-ATH could work 2x weekly as Greece works better as sole destination, GRU-VIE faces more competition as Austria is in the middle of many gateways (ZRH, MUC, MXP) and not so far from other markets. BRU-NRT ? I don't think they can do it. I keep saying that the Japan focus of this forum is much bigger than the actual market.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 7):
Lipe, GIG-NVT O&D alone can keep the flight doing well. WEBJET will certainly sell a lot of holiday packages for cariocas wanting to spend their holidays in this area of SC. It is good for market diversification. You have Balneario Camboriu, Itajai, Blumenau, and attractions such as Betto Carreiro World, all served by NVT catchament area. WEBJET flight will also allow for connections via GIG to important markets such as CNF and SSA

Agree 100%. Just the big projects using BNDES funding or potential new developments, as well as Rio is a powerhouse for investment funds.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 7):
This means WEBJET schedule will not compete with G3 but rather offer a good alternative with GIG departure in mid-afternoon and NVT departure early afternoon. It will be perfect for the busy holiday period.

Exactly, and looks who missing: TAM ! Their network from the South to GIG is very limited.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 7):
And the first POA-IGU and POA-RAO nonstop, right?

Correct. POA got their first flight to IGU and RAO got non-stops to both POA and BSB for the first time. I do believe there's room for RAO-GIG and RAO-SSA if WebJet develops relationship with a bus company to connect Ribeirao Preto Airport and some of the markets around such as Sertaozinho (big ethanol producer), Bebedouro (big orange juice producer), Lins, and others. Ribeirao catchment area is a little smaller than Campinas, but still, have good business and a poppulation around 2-4 million.
Brazilian airlines need to learn how to develop a market that looks small but in fact are bigger.
TAM will not like this move as they obligate all RAO passengers to go thru CGH for these destinations.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18292 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
GRU-ATH could work 2x weekly as Greece works better as sole destination

Lipe, I am sorry, but at this stage I really dont think a flight between ATH and Brazil will work...Greece is in a dire situation...even holiday makers are avoiding the country  
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Agree 100%. Just the big projects using BNDES funding or potential new developments, as well as Rio is a powerhouse for investment funds

Right, Lipe. But Webjet works with a lot of package tourists too. Cariocas like going on holidays to SC, I know this. For NVT area will be great market diversification since the market is highly dependend on RS, PR, SP and Argentina, as RJ is now also a major "sender" of domestic tourists. As you said, there is also plenty of business activities in various fronts from investment funds to SMEs, and the Port of Itajai and Port of Navegantes (PORTONAVE) have a lot of contracts with RJ-based firms.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
Exactly, and looks who missing: TAM ! Their network from the South to GIG is very limited.

JJ is a disaster... I am following the NVT market and it speaks for Brazil. JJ has been flying 3 daily CGH-NVT for ages, now G3 flies CGH-NVT 4 weekly + GIG-NVT + GRU-NVT; AD is adding its 4th daily VCP-NVT and flies NVT-POA....all unde the nose of TAM... it was not too long ago JJ was the sole operator in NVT....

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
TAM will not like this move as they obligate all RAO passengers to go thru CGH for these destinations.

Airlines such as AD, Webjet, Passaredo are eating onto TAM markets more and more... all the nearby markets that used to go to CGH for their flights will surely prefer their local airport or even those that are from secondary cities will prefer using less busy and more convenient and less traffic-intensive airports such as RAO or VCP. Why venture into the middle of a mega metropolis such as Sao Paulo if you can fly from RAO, VCP, etc?

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18282 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 8):
Lipe, I have just checked and, from March 2011, DTW-GRU is downgraded to 2 weekly

Thanks, i recheck and you're totally right.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 8):
DL205 DTW-GRU flies 2 weekly on Sundays and Thursdays; while DL204 GRU-DTW flies 2 weekly on Mondays and Fridays. All with the B763 nonstop. The dates seem selected to operate on business-oritented, although I question how sustainable is a 2 weekly flight

You know my view about this route. The fact they postpone the first flight after having a good time for advance bookings just show that the route will demand more from DL in terms of development.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18290 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
Lipe, I am sorry, but at this stage I really dont think a flight between ATH and Brazil will work...Greece is in a dire situation...even holiday makers are avoiding the country

Hardi, Greece is still a desired place for leisure. I know about their situation, but do not change the desire.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
Right, Lipe. But Webjet works with a lot of package tourists too

I forgot to mention that ! You're 100% correct, plus access to FLN area.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
JJ is a disaster... I am following the NVT market and it speaks for Brazil. JJ has been flying 3 daily CGH-NVT for ages, now G3 flies CGH-NVT 4 weekly GIG-NVT GRU-NVT; AD is adding its 4th daily VCP-NVT and flies NVT-POA....all unde the nose of TAM... it was not too long ago JJ was the sole operator in NVT....
Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
Airlines such as AD, Webjet, Passaredo are eating onto TAM markets more and more

And this will drain more and more TAM yields as the best yields come from and to secondary market to other secondary markets. You can buy a primary-primary flight for BRL 120 / 150 even for a 2h flight, but when it comes to connections, the secondary-secondary in general costs BRL 400 / 500
Plus, LF will be moving down, and they will have to lower fares in routes such as GRU-SSA or GIG-REC as well as more of the business oriented flights (CGH-BSB, SDU-BSB) will have less frequencies during weekends which means TAM will create more weekend flights where they fly just to got some revenue. TAM fleet is bigger than they need, not correctly allocated generating discrepancies such as 14x Sao Paulo-Salvador service, while there's no RAO-SSA or MAO-SSA. Hope LA can help them !

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
Why venture into the middle of a mega metropolis such as Sao Paulo if you can fly from RAO, VCP, etc?

That's the point without infra structure. Have to see what can be done, and a lot can be !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 565 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18299 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 7):
And the first POA-IGU and POA-RAO nonstop, right? It will eat into Passaredo market which offers RAO-POA via CWB.


Passaredo had better looking for new focus cities.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
Lipe, I am sorry, but at this stage I really dont think a flight between ATH and Brazil will work...Greece is in a dire situation...even holiday makers are avoiding the country
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
Hardi, Greece is still a desired place for leisure. I know about their situation, but do not change the desire.

GRU-ATH could be a way to JJ take passengers of the successful TK's GRU-IST route.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
BRU-NRT? I don't think they can do it. I keep saying that the Japan focus of this forum is much bigger than the actual market.


Sabena used to serve NRT. Nowadays, Belgians go to CDG or AMS to take a nonstop to NRT. JJ could bring a solution for them.

[Edited 2010-09-04 10:06:13]

User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1066 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18290 times:

Further requestes from WH:

WH 5728 DAILY CNF 1400 SSA 1540 1615 REC 1730
WH 5729 DAILY REC 1130 SSA 1250 1330 CNF 1510
WH 5774 DAILY GIG 1010 RAO 1115
WH 5775 DAILY RAO 0820 GIG 0930
WH 5776 DAILY GIG 2020 RAO 2135
WH 5777 DAILY RAO 1830 GIG 1940
WH 5814 DAILY CWB 1620 IGU 1730 1810 BSB 2020
WH 5815 DAILY BSB 1157 IGU 1410 1440 CWB 1550
WH 5834 DAILY SSA 1535 FOR 1720
WH 5835 DAILY FOR 1320 SSA 1505
WH 5836 DAILY SSA 2015 REC 2130
WH 5837 DAILY REC 2200 SSA 2315
WH 5842 DAILY CNF 2134 POA 2340
WH 5843 DAILY POA 2145 CNF 2350

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
I do believe there's room for RAO-GIG and RAO-SSA


Looks like WH agrees with you. And the flights to/from RAO allow international connections at GIG.

[Edited 2010-09-04 10:38:54]


Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18264 times:

More news: IB is sending the A340-600 on MAD-GIG 4 weekly complementing the 3 weekly A340-300 MAD-GIG.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 14):
WH 5774 DAILY GIG 1010 RAO 1115
WH 5775 DAILY RAO 0820 GIG 0930
WH 5776 DAILY GIG 2020 RAO 2135
WH 5777 DAILY RAO 1830 GIG 1940



As anticipated by Lipe, very smart move, as you said, the flights are excellent for international connections, but I am sure the O&D will take good care of the loads, it fits business schedule as you may fly in the morning and return in the evening. When are they due start? 02 December?

It seems WH is completely changing its network and approach to network development. Very good move. It is avoiding direct competition and tapping on new undeserved markets.

RAO will see nonstop flights to POA and GIG both WH will not face direct competition.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 14):
WH 5814 DAILY CWB 1620 IGU 1730 1810 BSB 2020
WH 5815 DAILY BSB 1157 IGU 1410 1440 CWB 1550



IGU-BSB, again WH will be the only nonstop operator. WH will built major operations in IGU: nonstop flights to POA, BSB, CWB and CNF. WH has excellent deals with package tours therefore IGU makes sense on its strategy.

CWB-IGU will be difficult market as there are 5 daily nonstop by TAM and GOL. I dont see the market here as yields are low, but I am sure they will time the flight to allow for feeding pax.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 14):
WH 5842 DAILY CNF 2134 POA 2340
WH 5843 DAILY POA 2145 CNF 2350



This market is operated by AD 3 x day and schedule somehow overlaps with WH. I personally think POA-SSA or POA-REC would have worked better since there is not a single nonstop POA-NE Brazil.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
Hardi, Greece is still a desired place for leisure. I know about their situation, but do not change the desire



You are right, Lipe, but in Europe publicity has been so bad that many avoid Greece (many scenes of tourists stranded because of lack of petrol or violence due to riots, for example). Also to operate the route you need business and economic activity in Greece is severely hurt by their crisis. Even legacy airlines in Europe are cutting flights to ATH at this stage.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 13):
GRU-ATH could be a way to JJ take passengers of the successful TK's GRU-IST route.



I think they are very different markets, TK must have small share of ATH connections. TK is mainly O&D and Asian connections.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 13):
Sabena used to serve NRT. Nowadays, Belgians go to CDG or AMS to take a nonstop to NRT. JJ could bring a solution for them



You mean Brazil-BRU-NRT? It seems an interesting route, indeed. Kingfisher has built a major hub operation in BRU for their flights India-US, they all stop in BRU and the airline has 5th freedom rights. BRU is an interesting cargo airport. If JJ is looking into capturing part of the Dutch market and count on SN connections it seems BRU is a good option, and note the lack of BRU-South America. One of the 2 GRU-CDG could fly GRU-BRU instead.

Rgs,

[Edited 2010-09-04 13:26:00]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33279 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 18356 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 8):
Lipe, I have just checked and, from March 2011, DTW-GRU is downgraded to 2 weekly. DL205 DTW-GRU flies 2 weekly on Sundays and Thursdays; while DL204 GRU-DTW flies 2 weekly on Mondays and Fridays.

Yes, but flights after the end of February are zero'd out in availability. Or at least they were when I checked a few hours ago. The flights are listed, but cannot be booked.



a.
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 18189 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Yes, but flights after the end of February are zero'd out in availability. Or at least they were when I checked a few hours ago. The flights are listed, but cannot be booked.

Nope, they are bookable. Seats available on DL website....in fact, plenty of seats  

Rgs,


User currently offlinecpqi From Brazil, joined Apr 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18155 times:

Sorry for the delay in response I have been travelling. However I come back to the business class comments. Incitatus says:
"I cannot help thinking that the executives you escort aren't very seasoned travelers"


I am afraid that the issue occurs exactly because the opposite is true. For those of us who have to travel extensively as passangers due to work commitments this is a real issue and can't be dismissed with offhand comments. For example this week I travelled FOR-GRU-ORD for a 4 hour meeting. This is 27 hours of round trip flying in just three and a half days. The worst flight was GRU FOR on the return. Distance is over 3 hours flight and the noise eminating from a group of domestic tourists was excessive. I was exhausted, sitting at the back of the plane. I don't blame the tourist they are excited and they are entitled to their space. I would have preferred to have mine ! This is not snobbery it is simply minimum of comfort for a price. Access to the lounge at GRU would have also been appreciated given the dreadful state of GRU (and many other Brazilian airports). Don't get me wrong I agree that it does not make sense for flights under 2 hours. However I would not underestimate the amount of people who travel over two hours in connection following a long haul arrival



I hate turbulence
User currently offlineCamiloA380 From Sweden, joined Feb 2008, 486 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18089 times:

Since this is the brazilian thread...

Turkish Airlines from 26DEC10 is introducing Boeing 777-300ER service on 3 weekly Istanbul – Sao Paulo flight. From 22FEB11, the Star Alliance carrier is adding 4th weekly service.

TK015 IST1045 – 1920GRU 77W x146
TK016 GRU0055 – 1800IST 77W x257

Camilo   



Flying4Ever!
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 18079 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 10):
Airlines such as AD, Webjet, Passaredo are eating onto TAM markets more and more... all the nearby markets that used to go to CGH for their flights will surely prefer their local airport or even those that are from secondary cities will prefer using less busy and more convenient and less traffic-intensive airports such as RAO or VCP. Why venture into the middle of a mega metropolis such as Sao Paulo if you can fly from RAO, VCP, etc?
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
this will drain more and more TAM yields as the best yields come from and to secondary market to other secondary markets. You can buy a primary-primary flight for BRL 120 / 150 even for a 2h flight, but when it comes to connections, the secondary-secondary in general costs BRL 400 / 500

Its a carbon copy of how LCCs ate into legacies elsewhere around the world in past decades - you would expect that in this day and age TAM and its consultants (which I know they have many) would be a lot quicker and nimbler to adapt.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
The fact they postpone the first flight after having a good time for advance bookings just show that the route will demand more from DL in terms of development.

IMHO DTW-GRU is an experiment at best, which is not DL's first in terms of Brazil flights.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 15):
You mean Brazil-BRU-NRT? It seems an interesting route, indeed. Kingfisher has built a major hub operation in BRU for their flights India-US, they all stop in BRU and the airline has 5th freedom rights. BRU is an interesting cargo airport.

I think you meant 9W - Jet Airways.

Which 9W would be a good code-share partner for a fair number of India connections if JJ ever does the BRU route. A quarter of a plane of GRU-NRT passengers, added to BRU-NRT demand (and possibly partnership like SN, 9W), plus cargo could prove enough.


Quoting hardiwv (Reply 15):
Also to operate the route you need business and economic activity in Greece is severely hurt by their crisis. Even legacy airlines in Europe are cutting flights to ATH at this stage.

I can't think of a worse time to start service to ATH, particularly when its a destination that would be almost all O/D.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18010 times:
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Quoting AF086 (Reply 14):
WH 5774 DAILY GIG 1010 RAO 1115
WH 5775 DAILY RAO 0820 GIG 0930
WH 5776 DAILY GIG 2020 RAO 2135
WH 5777 DAILY RAO 1830 GIG 1940

Wow, fantastic news ! Two flights with prime schedule, able to connect RAO to the world as never before! I believe WebJet can help international carriers to get interesting feed from RAO area, plus more tourists, more business (Ribeirao Preto and Rio are the two biggest dental industry centers, Rio supports ethanol with BNDES and investment & pension funds)

Quoting AF086 (Reply 14):
WH 5814 DAILY CWB 1620 IGU 1730 1810 BSB 2020
WH 5815 DAILY BSB 1157 IGU 1410 1440 CWB 1550
Quoting hardiwv (Reply 15):
IGU-BSB, again WH will be the only nonstop operator.

Another major missing point, BSB is a big leisure originator market, and a flight to IGU will be a winner, plus, WH provide interesting connections there.

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 15):
RAO will see nonstop flights to POA and GIG both WH will not face direct competition

That's a very smart strategy, go for the new and got the yields !

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 15):
You are right, Lipe, but in Europe publicity has been so bad that many avoid Greece (many scenes of tourists stranded because of lack of petrol or violence due to riots, for example). Also to operate the route you need business and economic activity in Greece is severely hurt by their crisis. Even legacy airlines in Europe are cutting flights to ATH at this stage.
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
I can't think of a worse time to start service to ATH, particularly when its a destination that would be almost all O/D.

No doubt the moment is not the best, but need to take into consideration, the following:

a) Leisure oriented - Sao Paulo is one of the major markets in terms of leisure origination, and Brazil in general is getting more and more $$$ with people improving their plans from a trip to the coastline to Northeast and further, Argentina/Chile, after Europe, after USA, and after they want something new. Greece 2x weekly isn't a bad bet.
b) Small but consistent VFR - Greece have a small community in Brazil of around 25,000 to 50,000 people
c) Small business - Ships and International freight is a tradition from Greece, and it keeps like that. Plus, Greece is an importer of coffee and other products from Brazil, which could guarantee some cargo, again for a 2x weekly product, not bad.
d) Potential ATH-Brazil traffic: It's a crisis with no doubt, but it's a government crisis. Banks in Greece continue to be strong, private sector continues to do well, the only problem is public expenditure was reduced. The debt crisis there does not affect the private sector. So it's very likely that wealthy Greeks can see this flight as another interesting destination to reach Rio de Janeiro, Northeast, South, Buenos Aires... easy than anything they have, as per Hardi comments, due to less flights to other hubs, or the distance to other hubs.

Need to see the annual booking number for ATH-Brazil, but i believe is around 30,000 to 45,000

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
Its a carbon copy of how LCCs ate into legacies elsewhere around the world in past decades - you would expect that in this day and age TAM and its consultants (which I know they have many) would be a lot quicker and nimbler to adapt.

The problem is, the domestic market was always very profitable. In order to protect this market, during the past 3 years, all airlines add something like 50 new planes with no focus to bring more people even from closer airports in South America. Results, to me, are clear: massive capacity increase generated reduction on the domestic yields. And one of the few protected markets, SDU-CGH, now isn't anymore as SDU handles a lot of other routes and AD enter the market offering VCP as alternative to reach some markets, which make JJ and G3 drop the fares to places like MGF, LDB, NVT, JOI and others without non-stop service from Rio.
Now airlines are counter-attacking this, by adding new services out of Rio, Brasilia, and new markets.

The result will be a continue drop on JJ margins, if they do not focus on reducing some capacity and introduce some South American flights. I keep saying, to drop 2 domestic short flights to introduce POA-SCL for example, isn't bad at all.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
IMHO DTW-GRU is an experiment at best, which is not DL's first in terms of Brazil flights.

Liked your comment, it's really an experiment, and seems that the first "sample" was not good. I keep looking into the map and think that where DTW is, doesn't provide a good connecting point to the USA. Lets see if they add the 2 weekly frequencies they got from DOT as per so far, they only will run 3x weekly during peak season, despite having obtained 2 more from ANAC.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17973 times:

Quoting cpqi (Reply 18):
The worst flight was GRU FOR on the return. Distance is over 3 hours flight and the noise eminating from a group of domestic tourists was excessive. I was exhausted, sitting at the back of the plane. I don't blame the tourist they are excited and they are entitled to their space. I would have preferred to have mine !



Try to fly intra-US or intra-Europe...your experience will not be different...

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 19):
Since this is the brazilian thread...

Turkish Airlines from 26DEC10 is introducing Boeing 777-300ER service on 3 weekly Istanbul – Sao Paulo flight. From 22FEB11, the Star Alliance carrier is adding 4th weekly service.

TK015 IST1045 – 1920GRU 77W x146
TK016 GRU0055 – 1800IST 77W x257



Thanks for the breaking news. TK is another of the "new" players in Brazil (including LY, QR, EK, KE, etc) doing extremely well. TK reported loads +90% on its IST-GRU. Note that the flights started as IST-DKR-GRU A330, then got upgrade to IST-GRU A330 dedicated; then upgraded to IST-GRU A340, and now we have the 4th frequency and the B77W...fantastic news for the Brazilian market.

TK remains among the few players still offering Europe-GRU daylight leg.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
IMHO DTW-GRU is an experiment at best, which is not DL's first in terms of Brazil flights.



And the "experiment" with ATL-GIG and JFK-GRU was a huge success, and I dont blame them for trying and wanting more! DL should be happy to have these coveted GRU slots under their arms, it will certainly be a strategic position for the airline.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
I think you meant 9W - Jet Airways.
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
Which 9W would be a good code-share partner for a fair number of India connections if JJ ever does the BRU route. A quarter of a plane of GRU-NRT passengers, added to BRU-NRT demand (and possibly partnership like SN, 9W), plus cargo could prove enough.



Correct, 9W. Indeed, if JJ times the flight well it could 1) capture BRU-NRT market; 2) allow for onwards connections to India with a 9W codeshare; 3) allow for West Africa connections with SN; 4) allow for Europe connections with SN; finally, 5) capture the South America-BRU market.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 20):
can't think of a worse time to start service to ATH, particularly when its a destination that would be almost all O/D.



I fully agree, ATH has nosedived. KL and all other legacy carriers are cutting frequencies and capacity.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
Need to see the annual booking number for ATH-Brazil, but i believe is around 30,000 to 45,000



Numbers must have halved in 2010 because of the dire situation in Greece, I would say the country is in a very bad economic shape, probably the worst among all EU members.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17961 times:
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Quoting hardiwv (Reply 22):
Numbers must have halved in 2010 because of the dire situation in Greece, I would say the country is in a very bad economic shape, probably the worst among all EU members.

A little, but it continue to be a strong destination and a desire for a lot of people.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1066 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17881 times:

QF is considering Brazil:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/qanta...ng-down-to-rio-20100905-14w6g.html



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
25 AwysBSB : It is time for they finally launch the entire tail-wind route SYD-Brazil-PER-SYD.
26 Post contains images LipeGIG : That's a potential flight, but as per the news story, a big challenge due to the distance. Hope they select Rio
27 hardiwv : Interesting development, in my personal opinion I think NZ has more potential to operate Brazil nonstop than QF. Note that New Zealand dropped visa r
28 AF086 : Why not SYD-SCL-GIG? SYD-SCL is shorter than SYD-GRU and the stop at SCL can offer connections (via their OW partner LA) to EZE, GRU, LIM, UIO, BOG a
29 hardiwv : 1) QF and LA have split their market which explains why QF flies EZE in codeshare with LAN. LA would never allow QF eat into its two markets: SYD-SCL
30 LipeGIG : Could be, but i bet on SYD-PER-GIG I don't think so Hardi. The ties between Australia and Brazil and the potential is bigger when we think about - Mi
31 C010T3 : PER-GIG is actually a longer flight than SYD-GIG.
32 LipeGIG : Good to know, but PER-GIG is listed on Boeing website as a potential flight for the Boeing 747-400 I keep up the potential of Australia-GIG consideri
33 hardiwv : PER makes the trip longer as mentioned above, SYD nonstop would be shorter. Furthermore the O&D is small and leisure minuscle. I've been to PER a
34 LipeGIG : Not in fact as Perth have more ties with Rio than Sao Paulo, and there's no JNB-GIG currently and the almost 5h connection kill it.
35 hardiwv : Why? GIG pax can connect via GRU, I just said PER already has an excellent connection with Brazil via GRU and JNB with SA. See timetable above, by fa
36 LipeGIG : It's another stop, Hardi. For a 3 stop flight, there's other options even thru Europe or EZE/AEP.
37 Rafabozzolla : Yeah, but the route through SA is much shorter than the one through Europe. And it is also better than EZE/AEP since there's no need to change airpor
38 LipeGIG : Due to the lack of options i do agree with you and that's why i believe GIG makes more sense, but at the same point we know where all goes.
39 AF086 : Copa has just requested new flights to Brazil: EFF 15DEC10 CMP821 - PTY 2146 - 0334 POA - DAILY - 73G CMP822 - POA 0437 - 1014 PTY - DAILY - 73G Now T
40 c010T3 : Finally! PTY-POA was long overdue.
41 LipeGIG : Wow ! Well done CM and one more destination in Brazil. Now they cover 5 markets and still have room for more. I believe next will be BSB and SSA PTY
42 Rafabozzolla : The schedules are (as usual), brutal. It's amazing how many people can endure such odd departure and arrival times when the price is right. Well... b
43 jj8080 : Good news!! And CM keeps stretching their 737's legs as long as they can.... I'm not sure if'd like to fly a 2850nm PTY-POA route on a 73G, arriving
44 OP3000 : The schedule is not too different from TA's from LIM, which will inevitably compete for passengers with this new service. Fares are one reason people
45 LipeGIG : CM take advantage of the lack of non-stop services between Latin America markets. Only in Brazil they still have the following opportunities, for now
46 OP3000 : Now that you bring up the list of potentials, IMHO CM would have as good a shot as anyone of launching a successful VCP international route. Figuring
47 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : Good news on PTY-POA PTY-IGU? Other than the potential leisure traffic, there is already some traffic between Ciudad del Este / Iguassu falls and PTY
48 AF086 : I would add a non daily service to BEL with the E190. As for a second GIG service I personally think it's about time it happens. Perhaps a late after
49 2travel2know2 : That would mean a 20-2100h GIG arrival and a 03-0400h departure, so I guess CM does have some issues with passengers getting to GIG aftermidnight to
50 AF086 : The road got much better lately. It's been a while since anything has been reported there. TA arrives at GIG pretty early (or late depends on your po
51 incitatus : That is part of the reason why air taxis are so popular in Brazil - even for trips like you described. Next time you are in GRU, pay attention to pas
52 AwysBSB : I am not sure TA will get to keep that service. There are other new markets in Brazil where it's service could remain, and TA may be studying them.
53 LipeGIG : IGU is a very desired among foreigners 2T2K. With South America getting more business and money, we will see more people flying to IGU. As you mentio
54 2travel2know2 : It could as well be IGR Iguazú Argentina or AGT Ciudad del Este Paraguay. I belive the day CM sets eyes on that area, my guess is CM will preffer AG
55 C010T3 : Well, I really think that Panama should try renegotiating the bilateral. Brazil has been closing agreements with unlimited frequencies with every Sou
56 LipeGIG : Some news: - Aerolineas will increase as previouslly mentioned their offer to Brazil, but not so much. They will keep AEP-GIG 4x daily as expected But
57 incitatus : SAA is saying they are going to fly JNB-GIG starting February 2012, initially 3 or 4 times a week.
58 C010T3 : They've been saying that they will start GIG in two years since 2006.[Edited 2010-09-15 19:17:11]
59 LipeGIG : Lets see if this time they are serious about the date. I hope SAA become a new player in Rio.
60 AF086 : Ditto. Given the past history of announcements I think this one is BS, as usual.
61 SJOtoLIR : TA LIM-POA is 3x weekly whereas CM PTY-POA will operate every day. By the way, the intended CM PTY-POA does not appear yet on GDS sources. . CM needs
62 LipeGIG : Lets wait and see. At least AZ is going to happen as expected: Summer 2011 and even better, seems now that will be red-eye both ways, and with AZ A33
63 AF086 : And does the GIG loads justify an increase in frequencies?
64 SJOtoLIR : CM PTY-GIG sustains one daily flight there; it worked in the past as 5x weekly. I don't manage the information about if the demand is steadily increa
65 AF086 : It's rather pointless to fly GIG-GRU-PTY-XXX. It kills the whole single connection concept that Copa has. The codeshare is just to allow CM to use 7
66 LipeGIG : It shall sustain SJOtoLIR. Demand to BOG, CCS, UIO, LIM, MEX from GIG is increasing specially due to the oil industry (Colombia expects to pump more
67 incitatus : Let's wait until it is available for sale. There is not enough evidence to indicate Copa is going to operate daily. I believe they will not go daily
68 miner : Why? That'd be terrible. That's no different than any other international flight coming out of Belo with a stopover in GIG or GRU. Despite the effort
69 LipeGIG : Agreed, but Fiat flies AZ or JJ with corporate agreement ? May be TAM tries that. I think CNF market is bigger than many here believes. It is. It mea
70 LipeGIG : Well some good news: - WebJet to launch 2x daily RAO-GRU - Gol to add satuday GIG-FOR, POA-FLN, FLN-GIG, RBR-BSB, PVH-BSB and BEL-GIG additional servi
71 2travel2know2 : Is it really LAS or a typo?
72 LipeGIG : It is LAS, Las Vegas, not a typo, 2t2k
73 2travel2know2 : GRU-AUA-LAS means that all LAS bound passengers must disembark in AUA, go thru U.S. Immigration and customs and board again the aircraft. I'm very muc
74 LipeGIG : 2t2k The point is that, besides many here do not acknowledge that, Sao Paulo is a powerhouse in terms of leisure market. A growing city and strong eco
75 AAEXP : Is Aruba US territory or am I missing something here?
76 2travel2know2 : AUA airport does have U.S. Immigration/Customs facilities. As per U.S. law, passengers on flights to the US should go thru immigration and customs on
77 miner : But the whole point is to travel nonstop to anywhere else regardless of class. For me, it's a matter of saving time, not getting pampered. Sure, it's
78 LipeGIG : There are a few markets that accept the creation of local US Immigration. AUA is one of them which means that after local procedures, immediately you
79 incitatus : Not all of the CNF demand in a market will use the nonstop, so the O&D potential of CNF could sustain some of these international flights, *only*
80 SJOtoLIR : Both NH and JJ will begin code-share operations linking Japan and Brazil through London Heathrow: .........................Route......................
81 Post contains links robffm2 : Fraport, the owner/manager of Frankfurt Airport and other airports around the world, has again stated interest in the Brazilian market. Aero.de report
82 incitatus : Brazil's Geography and Statistics Agency (IBGE) released last month's average pay in Brazil's major metro areas. I quote them here because often we di
83 LipeGIG : - Small reduction on the services to COR and ROS, by Gol, eff. Oct 15. GIG-POA-COR from Daily to 5x weekly BSB-POA-ROS from 6x weekly to 3x weekly Jus
84 C010T3 : Could we say that AR is succeeding in regaining traffic from secondary cities in Argentina? Flying COR/ROS-AEP-Brazil is now just as comfortable as f
85 LipeGIG : Yes it could be. And Gol seems not be so great on their international travel. As well as a growing network that AR offers at AEP.
86 C010T3 : It's just a shame to see how inept they are in competitive environments in foreign markets.
87 LipeGIG : One change they could do to improve their product is to remove some rows on their B738. What a shame to obtain no more than 60% year round load facto
88 SCL767 : Which leads to the question, can AEP serve as a mini-regional hub for LA/JJ? For example, passengers from COR or SCL are now able to fly either COR-A
89 LipeGIG : Yes, but 4M need to develop more its network out of AEP and fly more to Brazil. Up to now, their only destination is Sao Paulo and TAM does not code-
90 SJOtoLIR : KL AMS-GRU from March 01st till March 22nd would plan to replace the 772 aircraft for the 773 Extended Range twice a week: Tuesdays and Saturdays. Reg
91 LipeGIG : PU will launch MVD-VCP 6x weekly service eff. 01/December
92 incitatus : Yes, I see that too, adding that: The cities with higher income are seeing air travel demand go up faster. Namely domestic air travel is growing fast
93 LipeGIG : Fully agree with you. Sao Paulo got it 4x as normally it provides connection for domestic markets as well as the access to international markets. And
94 SCL767 : This is exactly what 4M plans on doing after AEP reopens. Firstly, 4M will increase frequencies on domestic routes within Argentina. Most domestic ro
95 C010T3 : I think that's still a matter of "if" not "when".
96 SCL767 : It's always a matter of "if" and not "when" with Brazil. Regardless, G3 will certainly add more flights into Argentina if JJ does not add more flight
97 macilree : Apologies if this has been covered before but just how close to capacity are GRU and GIG airports in terms of available landing/takeoff/gate slots? Al
98 LipeGIG : The problem is that, to take advantage of Brazil it need to be quickly. JJ and G3 are pushing for my flights, and JJ even said that they want 21 more
99 C010T3 : The problem is Argentina, not Brazil.
100 SCL767 : AR will always have preference over the other carriers. However, when AEP completes its refurbishment; more international flights will be allowed. AR
101 LipeGIG : They are already doing that. Rio is now about to become 4x daily and Sao Paulo is consolidating a 5x daily service while they are going to start Curi
102 Post contains links jmbarros12 : Guys, Sorry if this is a little of topic, but take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-2IB8MZCvA AWSOME! Cheers, Jmbarros12
103 Post contains links robffm2 : Very interesting read about the the TAM / LAN merger on Latin Business Chronicle, putting the merger into a bigger context: LAN-TAM: Unprecedented Mer
104 LipeGIG : So lots of news from Brazil: - AZUL (AD) will fly new routes CNF-SLZ CNF-VIX CNF-NVT (eff. December 1st) - ALITALIA (AZ) announced FCO-GIG 4x weekly a
105 Post contains links C010T3 : TAM applied for a new GIG-EZE flight. It's not clear yet where the frequencies are coming from, but it's the first time TAM will use a widebody on the
106 SJOtoLIR : The British flagship bmi has expanded the code-share agreement with TAM as follows: ................Route.............................BD Code-share...
107 AF086 : At last! This flight is timed for connections at GIG to/from it's longhauls.
108 AF086 : BD could also codeshare on the new JJ8012/3 which is well timed for connections with JJ's GIG-LHR flight which is also codeshared with bmi.
109 LipeGIG : Finally ! This closes the gap as they moved the two current flights to afternoon and late night. Plus, this offers a premium aircraft finally on the
110 cpqi : As a read the new routes and plans on this thread we see the North and Northeast all but neglected for international connections. TAP FOR - LIS is ver
111 incitatus : I am going to say probably not. First of all, TAP is not a very profitable carrier - check out their financial results. Then TAP has a few markets wh
112 cpqi : So does anyone know the LFs for FOR/SSA - LIS ?
113 SCL767 : That's great for JJ to add an additional daily non-stop flight between GIG and EZE. IIRC, this means that JJ will operate at least 4 widebody a/c int
114 SJOtoLIR : BOG is [AV/TA] territory and AV GRU-BOG is currently served with 330. The intended JJ GRU-BOG and LAN Colombia would undermine the presence of their
115 incitatus : You may want to search Brazilian Aviation threads preceding this one. TAP's load factors by route are posted here fairly often. These routes have str
116 SJOtoLIR : TACA officially displays the schedule for Lima-Brasilia service: TA 080..............LIM 22:05.............BSB 05:35+1................Mo, We, Fr TA 08
117 C010T3 : Why? There are unlimited frequencies between Peru and Brazil.
118 SCL767 : IMO, TA's entrance into the BSB market is to deter CM from entering the market. LP's LIM-BSB 5x weekly (A319) service is staying in place. TA could l
119 LipeGIG : With the Real strong, a medium haul like LIM-BSB become a very profitable operation even with low fares in Reais (R$) which in general produce very i
120 SJOtoLIR : With that being said, Lan Peru has reversed their plans in order to become LP LIM-BSB daily. . TA LIM-MDZ will start shortly. TA 091.............LIM
121 SCL767 : Given the upcoming new routes and increased frequencies at LIM, it makes sense to increase LIM-BSB to a daily service. LIM-ASU 4x weekly will soon be
122 Post contains links AwysBSB : TA studies got to a result: The downside of that new service is its schedules, they are poorly integrated into AVB's network out of BSB. To answer th
123 SJOtoLIR : The interest for TA rather consists to integrate TA LIM-BSB 3x weekly to the rest of its network out of Lima: HAV, MEX, UIO, GYE, BOG, CCS, SDQ, MIA,
124 LipeGIG : Massive growing by AR... it seems they are going after the available frequencies before TAM get new flights AR requested the schedule for the 5x daily
125 SCL767 : Well that's how AR operates. G3 will also transfer over flights from EZE to AEP. G3 never made money flying non-stop between Brazil and Chile. G3 rou
126 C010T3 : I think you are reading too much into this. The frequency increase is just a consequence of the return of the flights to AEP.
127 Post contains links SCL767 : I know, however look at when Argentina changed its policy this year on Aeroparque, which previously was restricted to domestic and Uruguayan services
128 C010T3 : What are you talking about? Nobody is talking about March anymore.
129 SCL767 : My point was that AR was given preference over other international and domestic carriers at AEP from the start. More airlines will eventually want mo
130 C010T3 : OK, I see. You just wanted to write something regardless if it related to what I wrote.
131 incitatus : That is a factor, and more significant in Rio and SP, which have much larger middle classes than other cities. A bout of BSB-LIM service is going to
132 SCL767 : OK... Its quite popular with diplomats from surrounding countries. Also, Brazilians do not like to travel to LAX, SFO, MEX, CUN, PUJ, JFK, MAD, MIA e
133 LipeGIG : Seems not correct. Gol runs 2x daily GIG and i believe 2x daily POA. This focus can show a lot of their average load factor, around 55%
134 Post contains links SCL767 : Well some are visiting CUZ. "A group of 6,000 Brazilian tourists will visit Machu Picchu and other attractions in Cusco by the end of this year, than
135 LipeGIG : They don't have a good product to compete against JJ, 4M, AV and even AR in Sao Paulo, but they insist with that. I can't justify and explain why JJ
136 SCL767 : LA basically protected its market-share and kicked G3 out of SCL a few years back. I wouldn't be surprised if G3 left again.
137 incitatus : Don't read so quickly. I said Brasilienses, not Brazilians. Brasilia generates some international business traffic, but less than other Brazilian cit
138 C010T3 : Well, LIM-MIA coming to rescue.
139 LipeGIG : And if they manage to begin LIM-MCO, they will have a superior product !
140 SCL767 : LP started the route in order to attract a mix of business and leisure travelers and the service has been performing extremely well. LP will increase
141 Post contains links SCL767 : Lan Perú S.A. plans on offering lower airfares next year as the airline continues to expand aggressively with brand new a/c. LAN purchased four new A
142 LipeGIG : CWB wont happen before Infraero installs the ILS Cat III there. No airline will operate early morning in the airport that more times is not available
143 SCL767 : They really need to install ILS CAT III at other airports as well as CWB. By next year, LIM will have already done so. LAN was first at BSB for a rea
144 AF086 : Fine, fair argument but LP isn't interested in grabbing marketshare at GIG? TA is already flying GIG-LIM...so what? LP can offer decent competition a
145 LipeGIG : GIG market is at least 4x bigger than local BSB market. No way to compare LIM-BSB with LIM-GIG in terms of market size and capacity, other than LA in
146 SJOtoLIR : In my view, TACA decided to operate in a city where it does not face the competition of LP. It was rumored in the past about TA LIM-COR, but the airl
147 AAEXP : One word: Mining
148 SJOtoLIR : ANA from Japan will display the “NH” code on TAM’s Sao Paulo - Rio de Janeiro service. These operations will match the JJ LHR-GRU and back which
149 SCL767 : TA faces competition from Sky Airline, which will soon launch SCL-ANF-LIM 5x weekly (A320).
150 SJOtoLIR : We have previously commented here about the possible alliance [TACA - Sky Airline] for the traffic [Lima - Santiago]. If so, we may expect that they
151 LipeGIG : Would be easier just to add their code on LHR-GIG non stop service....
152 AF086 : My thoughts exactly. I'm still trying to figure out why they chose that.Why would NH (and any other *A customer) fly GIG-GRU-LHR-NRT when you can ski
153 Post contains links LipeGIG : In a request made to the Brazilian ANAC and available thru the website www.anac.gov.br/hotran , Air Europa applied for a daily service connecting Madr
154 C010T3 : Let me help you on that: UX41 332 x6 MAD 2355 SSA 0355+1 0455 EZE 0915 UX42 332 x6 EZE 1345 SSA 1645 1745 MAD 0600+1 UX43 332 6 MAD 1215 SSA 1615 171
155 robffm2 : And why not GIG-FRA-NRT for that matter? Isn't FRA still served more frequently than LHR from GIG? Or is the FRA flight already 'fuller' than the LHR
156 Post contains links SCL767 : LAN and TAM announce presentation to the Brazilian National Civil Aviation Agency: English: http://www.lan.com/en_us/sitio_perso...sa/20101020_present
157 LipeGIG : I agree with you Rob and yes, FRA is served 5x weekly (TAM last week confirmed that they will go daily next year) and got a 89% LF on the first month
158 robffm2 : Parabens TAM, well done! LF look very healthy after such a short time. And I guess the economic rebound and growing importance of Brazil and Rio de J
159 Post contains links airbazar : It is my believe that QF will enter SYD-GRU with A380 because it is the only aircraft in the foreseeable future that can operate the route profitably
160 SJOtoLIR : As per Airline Route states, Singapore Airlines has temporary suspended reservations for its new service to Sao Paulo starting on March 29th. The BCN-
161 SCL767 : How has QF been building up that market over the years when QF has never operated into Brazil? Not surprising given that IB will launch BCN-GRU 3x we
162 2travel2know2 : SIN-BCN-GRU may not be the best route for SQ to fly to Brazil. Flying via CPT, MRU or MPM, if traffic rights between Africa and Brazil were allowed,
163 AF086 : SIN-JNB-GIG would be a killer route no doubts there. Perhaps SIN-CPT-GRU would be a decent performer too.
164 airbazar : By selling tickets there. It's widely known that a huge percentage of SYD-EZE is connecting traffic to/from Brazil. Why else would they continue to o
165 SCL767 : Selling tickets between EZE and GRU on which carrier(s)? Also, BA will soon operate into EZE non-stop. Qantas does not have a presence in Brazil. Reg
166 LipeGIG : It does not surprise me at all. The demand right now to Rio is very strong and in general, Europe-Rio O&D charges a premium on any route over a c
167 SCL767 : Only due to AEP's temporary closure. 4M's two daily flights to GRU will switch back to AEP once the airport reopens. 4M code-shares on JJ's six daily
168 airbazar : You are not getting it. QF sells ticket _IN_ Brazil, to Brazilian customers who want to fly on QF to Australia. QF does not have to fly to Brazil in
169 SCL767 : Most airlines interline; LAN markets in Shanghai and Tokyo but LAN doesn't have an actual presence there yet; (no code-shares). LAN and TAM are aware
170 Post contains links RCS763AV : I know this was covered in another thread, but Avianca Brasil will be launching it's first international route in November, GRU-BOG-GRU: http://www.go
171 LisbonBearUK : When does the new airport for the Natal (NAT) area open?
172 SCL767 : LAN Perú intends to serve both Puerto Iguazú, Argentina and Cataratas do Iguaçu, Brasil 4x weekly (A319): *Flight 2443 Departs: 12:45p J Chavez Int
173 C010T3 : From what I've heard, IGR was a stillbirth.
174 SCL767 : Um yeah, ANAC as usual. IMO, it's better if LP operates into IGU instead of IGR. Interestingly, AR would like to fly between AEP and CUZ next year.
175 Post contains links C010T3 : Aeroméxico applied yesterday before the ANAC for two additional frequencies for MEX-GRU services replacing Mexicana. The flights are already loaded i
176 TP777 : Can anyone inform how TP is doing on the LIS - VCP - LIS flights? Do they have good loads? Regards TP777
177 Post contains images airbazar : See last line of reply 159 All indications are that they are doing very well.
178 AF086 : AM fills some of the void left by MX. AM could diversify and fly MEX-GIG 3x weekly or so but, apparently, they're not interested. Too bad, it could p
179 SJOtoLIR : Reversed plans. SQ SIN-BCN-GRU 3x weekly is due to start on March 28th and it is available for reservations by now. Regards.
180 incitatus : Do they have ANAC approval for their slots? Before that happens whatever they have published is just tentative.
181 LipeGIG : Some update from all around Brazil: - JJ is waiting for the public audiency in Colombia to begin BOG sales - AA announced JFK-GIG 3 weeks before the f
182 SJOtoLIR : It's widely known the demise of JL NRT-JFK-GRU 2x weekly. Thus JAL will begin the code-share service on AA JFK-GRU: ...............Route..............
183 LisbonBearUK : Are any other international fligts planned from NAT in the future?
184 cpqi : I am delighted to see this comment. I am not sure about other routes but certainly FOR-LIS-FOR is packed almost all of the time. Even business class
185 incitatus : The latest DoT stats still show US having poor loads. They are not really known for high fares so it is anybody's guess what "very happy" means.
186 2travel2know2 : I'm no psychic but isn't BA studying LGW-FOR or LGW-SSA? A contract from a British touroperator and/or major area resort could entice BA to operate s
187 cpqi : Well whilst I would prefer Virgin, that would be exceptional news. Does anyone else have information about this ?
188 incitatus : It does not matter if it is packed. Packed flights are not necessarily making money. Business class may be full of bodies - but how many did each one
189 AF086 : Never heard of that. BA needs to improve their LHR-GIG schedule (3x weekly daylight nowadays) before that. They can channel their pax to REC/FOR thro
190 cpqi : I must bow to superior knowledge as I am not from the airline industry. However, and as you clearly are looking for a debate, I would say that a pack
191 2travel2know2 : LHR-GIG should be red-eyes both ways, even if it's kept thrice weekly and with no tag-on flight. Flying UK passengers to FOR/REC via MAD wouldn't wor
192 Post contains images airbazar : According to TP, BSB has become their 3 most profitable destination in Brazil after GIG and GRU. I'm just reading the details from their annual repor
193 SCL767 : Flying UK and other European passengers to BOG/LIM/SCL via MAD is already common among certain British, Spanish and South American operators includin
194 2travel2know2 : Works perfect when moving small groups of passengers. The moment an operator need to move 150+ passengers each week, the same day of the week, airlin
195 wingedtaurus : I can't really understand why those 3x 767 would be perfect and could be a good entry point in view of the Olympic Games and teh World Cup.
196 incitatus : Right now a rising tide lifts all boats. The strong real coupled with a few holidays in October got everybody who could afford a foreign vacation. My
197 LipeGIG : Why to enter MEX-GIG to increase their costs with just 3x weekly, could be their question. THey need at least to begin 5x weekly. OPO flights to Braz
198 Post contains links LatinThug : Hi friends, I have some news on TP routes to Brazil here : Bom Dia ---Portuguese Aviation News! (by LatinThug Sep 27 2010 in Civil Aviation)
199 Post contains links SCL767 : Qatar Airways CEO, Akbar Al Baker, recently commented that Qatar Airways will increase capacity on the DOH-GRU route by eliminating the tag-on between
200 cpqi : Capacity is a major issue for Brazil. All major airports with the possible exception of GIG are suffering and the plan to build out additional facilit
201 AAEXP : There will be no "new" government in Brazil. It will be the same government come Sunday.[Edited 2010-10-27 19:36:11]
202 cpqi : Oohh, now there is a comment. I don't see Dilma and Lula as being the same assuming PT win. However we all have our opinions ! and only time will tel
203 incitatus : 1,100 is not the lowest fare (1152 to be exact) TAP offers on its Brazil services. It is the lowest fare TAP offers in Brazil for travel to Portugal.
204 wingedtaurus : Thanks Lipe. Any idea if TAM or orther brazilian airline will join AM in the Brazil-Mexico market?
205 airbazar : Agreed, but it's not zero either, and I suspect it's high yield because it's in the north of Portugal where the money and industry are. The OPO fligh
206 LipeGIG : As well said by AirBazar and adding some words, the North of Portugal is not a leisure destination and it's more of a strong VFR element, with good b
207 incitatus : I did not plan to respond, but as I started looking at data, I concluded Porto is even smaller than I thought! No doubt, a lovely place - every place
208 Post contains links SCL767 : Some updates about LP's operations into Brazil next year: Effective immediately, LAN’s new route from Lima to Iguazu Falls (IGR, Argentina) will be
209 LipeGIG : If they consolidate SCL-GIG, that could be a chance for LIM-GIG to take place. Specially because LP schedule shall be early night departure GIG-LIM.
210 SCL767 : The main reason as to why SCL-GIG-SCL operates at those hours is to offer GIG pax rapid connections to/from AKL/SYD via SCL. But I really believe tha
211 Post contains images AAEXP : Just because JJ hooked up with LA does not automatically make them in 5 star carrier
212 LipeGIG : If it happens, i will have to visit LIM as last weekend the LIM flight was heavily delayed and i ended flying thru SCL. Well, if they grow more that'
213 SCL767 : They certainly are in South America! Which are the only two South American carriers that continuously come in first place year after year? LAN and TA
214 AAEXP : We mining mineiros are definitely looking forward to SCL-CNF and LIM-CNF. And I guess other types of mineiros are also.
215 incitatus : You got it. The current TAM is a substantial improvement over Transportes Aereos Marilia, but it has yet to lose its provincial roots. Nice and corny
216 LipeGIG : There's no need for that. Better to introduce new routes. LIM was 2x daily just 4 years ago, and now is: Sao Paulo-Lima : 24x weekly Rio de Janeiro-L
217 incitatus : There was a rumor circulating that Qantas is going to axe its EZE flight. It seems that flight is really not doing well. Load factor for Jan-Aug 2010
218 SCL767 : Yes, there is, GRU is THE major hub; thus LA/JJ will never give up market share to AV/TA on most routes, including the LIM-GRU-LIM route. LIM-BSB-LIM
219 LipeGIG : Even TAM mentioned they will build a hub in LIM. This means that they need to feed passengers directly to LIM and not thru another hub, or no one wil
220 AAEXP : Why would anyone want to fly LIM-ORD through GIG? Seems an awfully long deroute.....
221 LipeGIG : I wrote the opposite. It should be GIG-LIM-ORD
222 SCL767 : LAN's passengers will continue to connect via SCL, UIO/GYE, LIM, and soon BOG. LAN has increased frequencies on serveral international routes at SCL.
223 LipeGIG : BOG and SCL will never replace LIM as the hub for North America. BOG is not so good as LIM for west coast, for example. Good for MIA and MCO to run a
224 Post contains links C010T3 : The latest OAG update brought us great news! DFW-GIG will no longer be a seasonal service. It has been loaded for the entire year even before its begi
225 SCL767 : I forgot to mention that LP will operate into both IGR, (after all) and IGU from LIM next January!
226 LipeGIG : Great news ! It seems AA is now surprised and pleased with the DFW results...i see this flight as 5x weekly soon and even as daily using previous fre
227 AF086 : Great news, indeed. Guess AA's hesitation on the route is over. Next step is consolidaton and then expansion.
228 LipeGIG : I would not say hesitation. It's expected that a 10x weekly increase where you just handle a daily flight, could create doubts on the operator which
229 SJOtoLIR : TA LIM-POA is 3x weekly. . LP LIM-BSB is 5x weekly nowadays. TA LIM-BSB 3x weekly is due to start on December 15th. . 5L VVI-GRU 7x weekly will deplo
230 C010T3 : You mean that for the Northern Summer low season, since in the Northern Winter, AA will go 20x weekly. It was not really a 10x weekly increase if you
231 Post contains links scl767 : On December 8, 2010, LA2764/GRU-LIM and LA2765/LIM-GRU will operate as usual. On January 1, 2011, LAN will launch SCL-GIG-SCL daily, SCL-GRU will incr
232 C010T3 : It seems I was right after all... IGR is dead! LAN must urgently get its act together on that route. Not only the time zone of IGU being different fr
233 Post contains links SCL767 : They have already offered passengers protection that were previously ticketed for IGR. They may chose to fly LIM-SCL-AEP-IGR, or even AEP-IGR. Also,
234 LipeGIG : True, and well remembered that they use to have a flight thru Sao Paulo. Using this, will be a change from 19x weekly service to just 20x weekly on t
235 cpqi : Well just got back from my monthly trip to GRU and frankly it is all getting worse. When the best option for food is an overcrowded Pizza Hut (or wait
236 744lover : About 2 months ago I jumpseated a AD flight from VCP to SDU. Watching all the caos on the tarmac the captain gave me the best description of it: "The
237 LipeGIG : That's expected after all the domestic services added recently as well as the fact ANAC keep allowing more and more flights. January, expect the chao
238 C010T3 : PZ had already applied before the Brazilian ANAC for a change of airport at BUE for its GIG flight two or three months ago. Now they have reapplied fo
239 LipeGIG : It seems almost the same time they will introduce the GIG-EZE with A330. Its scheduled now to begin by Dec 3
240 SJOtoLIR : The JJ code is featuring in selected European flights operated by LH: ............Route.................JJ Code-share.............LH Operating Frankfu
241 AF086 : Transaero's GIG schedule is out: EFF 03JAN11 UN563 DME 1430 GIG 2330 - 744 - Mo UN564 GIG 0115 DME 1915 - 744 - Tu
242 LipeGIG : Probably due to other scheduled services. For a leisure service, not that bad.
243 C010T3 : Finally!
244 loalq : Rio got the olympics and is also probably the city to host the WC2014 finals, yet that doesn't seem to attract the likes of Qatar, Emirates, Singapore
245 pkrj : Why isn't TAM an option? Doesn't TAM have any codeshare like GIG-LHR-NRT flying TAM to LHR and ANA to NRT? I know LIS and MAD don't have almost any o
246 pkrj : I agree with you about the European airlines, and that GIG should have a much higher supply of flights than it really has, but actually I never under
247 C010T3 : That's because the flights at GRU carry connections from the rest of the country. A good part of the demand comes from RIO. So, it's not like the dem
248 SCL767 : LAN will deploy the A320, (instead of the A319), on the new daily SCL-GIG-SCL service. Beginning next February, JJ will place its code on certain dome
249 incitatus : Emirates started using 777-300s on the route and they said the economy cabin is consistently full, with one of their best markets being Brazil to Chi
250 LipeGIG : Besides Olympics and WC, there's a lot more going on in Rio. LH is expected soon, i do expect a Gulf carrier to fly to GIG also soon. The fact is, Ri
251 Post contains links LipeGIG : Part 8 now open Brazilian Aviation News 8 (by LipeGIG Nov 16 2010 in Civil Aviation) This thread is now closed.
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