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50-Seaters: Aluminum Kittens That Nobody Wants  
User currently offlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 17880 times:

In Bloomburg, Aboulafia and Boyd declare the end of the 50-seat jet era.

“It makes sense if you’re focused on market share, hub preservation and other really outmoded concepts. But if you’re focused on profitability, then the 50 seats begin to look awful.” “The next stop is the Budweiser factory because that’s all they’re good for.”

Comair’s divestiture of 53 CRJ100 & 200’s is described as a “defining moment on the long road to 50-seat oblivion.” Also mentioned, AMR’s possible divesting of American Eagle unit: another hole in the dyke. ...Will it really be a long road to oblivion?


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...jets-nobody-wants-.html?cmpid=yhoo


Yokoso! to my world
86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17506 times:

The time has come and gone for the 50 seat Regional Jet. With fuel prices and amalgamation of airlines, I am sure we will see a complete decline in all jets 50 seats and under.

On the brighter side, I would love to know the average number of cycles the oldest of these aircraft have done. Considering the age, I am sure they have been more than used to death.

Hate 'em or love 'em, they certainly plyed their trade well....



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17319 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 1):
The time has come and gone for the 50 seat Regional Jet. With fuel prices and amalgamation of airlines, I am sure we will see a complete decline in all jets 50 seats and under.

I wonder what was SkyWest thinking, when they made the decision to buy ExpressJet.
XE has nothing but 50-seaters, and they have 240+ of them.
Or, maybe the market for 50-seat RJ operation exists, and is not as dreadful as we see it?


User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17176 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 2):
I wonder what was SkyWest thinking, when they made the decision to buy ExpressJet.
XE has nothing but 50-seaters, and they have 240+ of them.
Or, maybe the market for 50-seat RJ operation exists, and is not as dreadful as we see it?

Oh, you've got to be kidding me?!?!?! The 50 seat RJ... being something someone wants... Why that goes against everything the dear Mr. Boyd speaks as the gospel. Of course, if all the a.nutters didn't quote him as the "Aviation Mesiah" then maybe we would see him for what he truly is.. 1... Analyst... and we all know that a single analyst couldn't possibly EVER be wrong... lol

Beryllium.. you are dead on the money.. the 50 seat RJ still has a huge market... that's why when UA awarded it's last round of contracts to regionals... we saw 32 aircraft for ExpressJet (all ERJ-145's of course) and Atlantic Southeast with... hold your breath... CRJ-200's... for 14 aircraft... Now why in the world would these executives make such a careless error contracting for 50 seaters when they could always get someone to transition over to some nice shiny 70-90 seat RJ???? Could it be that the market still exists and CAN be run profitably on these horrid little 50 seat RJ's??? Say it isn't so?!?!?!... and wait.. Continental.. turning such a huge profit... why.. why... and you mean they ONLY have 50 seat RJ's... NOT a SINGLE RJ larger than 50 seats... and yet they were still able to turn a profit with that kinda feed??? No way???? How could it be... why, if we ask Mr. Boyd he would simply just dismiss it I'm sure as a fluke..

Now, I'll be the first to admit that the 50 seaters in the numbers of the past will be gone and probably never return... but that's not because the market doesn't exist or the need for this type doesn't exist... it just isn't to the same degree as before because of Scope Relaxation... In the current environment they're not rushing to replace ALL 50 seaters with bigger aircraft.. they're all simply doing what they can to "right-size" the aircraft for the market... in a lot of cases 50 seaters are still warranted... in a lot of others the 70-90 seaters are more suitable...

The only thing going forward in question in regards to the 50 seaters... is what happens as they all hit their life expectancy... esp. with no-one currently really producing or planning a next-gen 50 seater... (btw, the Q400, the darling of a.nut is not a viable replacement for a lot of the RJ runs... sorry.. but it just isn't...)

[Edited 2010-09-03 11:06:04]


"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17142 times:

The more seats a plane has, the lower cost per seat to fly (in general.) RJ's are fighting this, as well as the fact that flight legs are short, which means fares cannot be too high or people will drive instead of fly. This also means maintenance costs are higher, as they depend on cycles as much as if not more than hours. Crew costs are a bigger percentage of overall costs, hence the miserable salaries. This also makes it hard to keep pilots; as soon as they get enough experience they are gone. In short, the economics of flying RJ's sucks, and during tough economic times it is not surprising to see it decline big time.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineBraniff722 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17055 times:

Cut em up. I need more paper clips. And, for me, that's all a CRJ 200 is worth.  


Braniff722



Living large in KSHV
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16881 times:

The current RJs that are coming out of the system are generally ones that no one wants, or is going to want in the future because they don't need the shear number of them they once had. It doesn't mean there isn't a role for them, there will be for many years to come. With the deployment of 70-90 seaters, there doesn't need to be the number there once were and they don't need to be deployed on the 1,000 mile routes like they were in the past.

There are going to be 50 seaters around for a long time to come. DL has some long-term contracts with OO, 9E that run to the end of the decade.

The older RJ's don't have much of a future since there is no 2nd hand demand for older RJs when everyone overall is looking to decrease the number, but not eliminate completely.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16748 times:

Quoting Braniff722 (Reply 5):

Cut em up. I need more paper clips. And, for me, that's all a CRJ 200 is worth.

Aluminum makes lousy paper clips.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16720 times:

There very much is a market for the 50 seater. Granted yes, expect them to continue to disapear on those long, thin routes with no mainline or 70 seater and above agumentation but NO, the 50 seat RJ is here to stay IMHO.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineBraniff722 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16711 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 7):

Nah, just need to know how to work em properly.

Aluminum around a CRJ 200 makes for lousy airplanes.  

Braniff722



Living large in KSHV
User currently offlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16686 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
It doesn't mean there isn't a role for them

So, just out of curiosity, what would be an ideal route for a 200?

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlineBraniff722 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16669 times:

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 10):
So, just out of curiosity, what would be an ideal route for a 200?


Anywhere to VCV, GYR, or IGM, for starters. With hopes of a lot of guys with K-12 saws and cutting torches full of fuel and fired up and ready to cut.  

Braniff722

[Edited 2010-09-03 12:23:29]


Living large in KSHV
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16492 times:

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 10):
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
It doesn't mean there isn't a role for them

So, just out of curiosity, what would be an ideal route for a 200?

Routes that are appropriate for 50-seaters are most smaller city-hub routes, of about 500-600 miles or less. These are routes where the yields can justfying the higher operating costs, and generally less than 1.5 hour block times - the point where passenger comfort and tolerance really starts to decline.

There are markets out there than can and will support 50 seat RJs, and where 50 seat RJs are likely the best choice to balance frequency, capacity, and yields.

The 50 seat RJ can help an airline offer additional frequencies during off-peak times with lighter demand, while fly 70/90 seat RJs and/or mainline during peak travel times.

Good RJ markets:
DTW-ROA
DTW-CRW
DTW-SCE
DTW-ITH
DTW-ATW
MSP-DLH
ATL-LEX
ORD-DSM


Bad RJ markets
DTW-IAH
DFW-FNT
ROC-MCO
BNA-MCO
MSP-GEG
LGA-RDU
ATL-ORD


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16422 times:

How are the 50 seaters doing elsewhere...such as Europe?


What the...?
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25356 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16113 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
How are the 50 seaters doing elsewhere...such as Europe?

They're rapidly being retired. LH Regional expects to remove all their 50-seat CRJs by next year. I think most have already been withdrawn. I believe they had the largest CRJ-100/200 fleet in Europe at one point with over 60 aircraft.

Excerpt from LH's 2009 annual report:

The withdrawal from the segment of 50-seater regional jets had already been decided and has now been brought forward: by the end of 2010 a total of 45 aircraft are to be retired and partly replaced by larger planes. These cost less to operate, which is very important given the focus on reducing unit costs for direct connections from outlying sites such as Hamburg and Berlin.

They also recently ordered 8 more CRJ-900s.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/corpora...ses/details?docID=0901260d80118e81

[Edited 2010-09-03 13:43:43]

User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16037 times:

I remember when Atlantic Coast got the CR2. It was a HUGE improvement over the god-awful (for me ,at least) J31/41. I looked forward to my first flight on one. I still remember when they were a big deal (1998'ish). I also remember United having little cards @ the airport promoting these. But,their time has come. At least 2x a month a -100 or -200 comes into ROC declairing an emergency because the flaps are frozen.
Maybe some will be saved,exported or made into corporate jets.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15792 times:

A 50 seat planes costs more per seat mile than a 75-seat plane but less on a block hour basis, so if you are only getting 45 passengers per flight, and the yields are good, why would you buy a new 75-seater when the ownership cost and insurance will soar? I concur that on a lot of routes where there is competition from larger aircraft, it's good to be in that market with a comparable product, but if you are the only operator on a given hub-to-small-city route, the economics of upgauging are not compelling.

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15603 times:

What other uses could they have?

UN aircraft
Small Military transport
VIP jets
Air Ambulence
Freighters
Charter


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15486 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 17):


What other uses could they have?

UN aircraft
Small Military transport
VIP jets
Air Ambulence
Freighters
Charter

Offshore reefs
Abstract sculpture materials
Small livestock shelters
Small missile silos



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15355 times:

More proof that Michael Boyd likes to make stuff up without actually thinking through what he's about to say:

Quote:
By 2015, U.S. airlines will have about 200 jets with 50 or fewer seats, down from about 1,200, said Michael Boyd, president of consultant Boyd Group International Inc. in Evergreen, Colorado.


If SkyWest completes their purchase of ExpressJet, they will have a new 10 year contract for 205 aircraft right there. If you simply start counting up the aircraft already under contract past 2015, there's no way there are only 200 50 seat RJs unless the pilot groups at the majors give even further scope concessions (very unlikely), allowing the regionals to replace the 50 seaters with larger RJs.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15068 times:

Quoting beryllium (Reply 2):
Or, maybe the market for 50-seat RJ operation exists, and is not as dreadful as we see it?

The market exists, but it will be far smaller in the future. Boyd says as much.

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 3):
that's why when UA awarded it's last round of contracts to regionals... we saw 32 aircraft for ExpressJet (all ERJ-145's of course) and Atlantic Southeast with... hold your breath... CRJ-200's... for 14 aircraft... Now why in the world would these executives make such a careless error contracting for 50 seaters when they could always get someone to transition over to some nice shiny 70-90 seat RJ????

UA was desperate for lift to backfill from retiring so many mainline planes. Scope clauses prevent them from having anything over 70 seat (unless operated by mainline), so they got 50 seaters that ASA/ExpressJet were desperate to find homes for because no one wanted them.

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 3):
Continental.. turning such a huge profit... why.. why... and you mean they ONLY have 50 seat RJ's... NOT a SINGLE RJ larger than 50 seats... and yet they were still able to turn a profit with that kinda feed???

And whose to say Continental couldn't have made a much larger profit if they had larger RJ's and fewer 50 seaters? You'll notice that CO has been trying to dump the 50 seater and has gotten rid of some of them. And if scope clauses allowed, they would have dumped far more.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):
More proof that Michael Boyd likes to make stuff up without actually thinking through what he's about to say:

I believe this is a misquote. Previous quotes from Boyd have the 50 seat and less market near about 800 planes which is still a huge drop off from 1200.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14975 times:

Yeah...DL, UA, and AA each alone are still going to have over 200 50 seat RJs in their fleet in 2015.

User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 851 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14973 times:

Boy the regional market is getting beat up quite a bit lately. With 2 or 3 threads going on about regionals vs mainline. As an employee of XE I would hate it if we were faced with parking our planes. I asked a regional manager at a station meeting in July if we would look at EMB170s or 190s? He said with the CO scope not likely, but to wait and see with the UA merger what could happen. Then last month we get hit with the OO/ASA merger, and Im guessing thats all out the window now. I do hope that OO can continue to secure 50 seat flying in the future.....banking on the new UA going to the CO scope. We can only see.
JD CRPXE



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14919 times:

What kinds of planes are 50-seaters or less?


From the airport with love
User currently offlinetoproy From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14778 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 18):

Quoting 777way (Reply 17):


What other uses could they have?

UN aircraft
Small Military transport
VIP jets
Air Ambulence
Freighters
Charter

Offshore reefs
Abstract sculpture materials
Small livestock shelters
Small missile silos

Put wheels on them and would make a cool RV.


25 PSU.DTW.SCE : The aircraft we are talking about are the 50 seat (and less) regional jets. This segement includes: CRJ-100/200 ERJ-135 ERJ-140 ERJ-145 FRJ (328 Jet)
26 irobertson : I find it funny that in the age of decline for 50-seaters, we're seeing the end of Mesaba Saab 340s into my home airport (YXU) and nearly only CRJ-200
27 mcdu : Why? Because UA terminated the Mesa agreement. They got low bids and are using them as stop gap for lift till the merger and scope are settled. The c
28 kinglobjaw : Good riddance. MSP-GFK, a 7X daily DL route will be loosing it's once daily DC-9 service after Labor Day. We will now be all CRJ-200 with not a single
29 ThePinnacleKid : Guys... seriously... the 50 seat RJ is not dead... is not dying.. it is right-sizing... Shrinking: Yes; Extinction: No. Boyd is fundamentally wrong im
30 FlyASAGuy2005 : I remember when 2Q results came out. They said the Express/Connection operation had actually turned a profit. Not bad for a bunch of 145s and prop jo
31 milesrich : ORD to Des Moines is a good 50 seat market? Not so many years ago, United operated 757's on that route with 6 or 7 departures a day, the rest being 7
32 point2point : If I may chime in here, I always wonder IF the market for these alternative aircraft fuels actually get into play here, and these alternative fuels g
33 N62NA : Why do so many of you hate the ERJ-135/40/45 and CRJ-100/200? Granted, they aren't the most room aircraft in the sky, but would you rather go back to
34 United_fan : These UAX CR2's were UA's darlings after 9/11,after UA retired their 727's and 732's.
35 boeingrulz : Even in my hometown tiny PUW, that is the university towns of Pullman Washington and Moscow Idaho with 4 daily flights, Horizon air serves us with a 7
36 iad51fl : This nonsense is put out at least once a year. Do a search. Yes, one day the 50 seat planes will be gone.....one day. Until then there are not many EM
37 eclipseflight7 : Abandoned kittens? Nah. RJ's are a wonderful creation for airlines to stick their fingers in as many pies as possible. They can provide access to smal
38 cslusarc : So 7 50-seat CRJ give 350 daily seats. If DL flew 3 times daily with a 319 offering a few more seats, would you think a 5 or more hour layover betwee
39 Flighty : Boyd has been obsessed with this for years. To his embarrassment, many an airline continues to make money with CR2 or E145. He can take it or leave it
40 PSU.DTW.SCE : They go away, so does the service you desire out of GFK. The industry has fundamental change and overall less capacity everywhere. As said, the airli
41 Post contains images nwaesc : I thought you were a US kinda guy? Not so much. The B1900? Yes.
42 PSU.DTW.SCE : However, DL (NW) has DC-9s that have been doing 6-7 cycles per day for over 40 years, flying similar routes to that of RJs. Meanwhile 15 year old RJs
43 AVLAirlineFreq : Agreed. As long as the legacy airlines continue to trumpet the benefit of offering as many frequencies as possible, we;ll continue to see large numbe
44 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Truthfully that would be just fine with me. If I had a 5 hour layover, then I'd consider it advantageous to buy a SkyClub pass for the day and use th
45 T5towbar : I just wanted to know which is the better aircraft: The CRJ 200 or the EMB 145? I always thought that the XR version of the 145 is the better performe
46 kinglobjaw : I am! US Airways for life! I'm a Chairman's with US. And DL does reek. But it's kind of hard not to fly Delta when you now live in GFK to attend univ
47 mcdu : On this so called "fact" you are terribly wrong. Perhaps since you say you are a kid you weren't around for what took place at the dawn of the RJ gen
48 ThePinnacleKid : Isn't this how it always is... Unfortunately, the MEC chair is still a pilot and still constitutes selling out the generally "junior" pilots for thei
49 planemaker : BBD and EMB pumped out those 50 seat kittens as quickly as they could and now both lines are dead. But that is not his (Boyd's) argument. He believes
50 777way : Is there use for these aircraft in thirld world countries and CIS? maybe they can be used there on niche or low density routes.
51 ABQopsHP : Hey Pinnacle Kid, you have my respect. And if youre flying for the company I think you are, then when you come through CRP, be sure to say hi. Like yo
52 Vasu : I could certainly see some going to the CIS (replacing tupolevs, as some airlines have done already!)
53 mcdu : Not thanking anyone at the regionals, Sorry. The comair pilots and their rjdc or whatever they called it, were pretty uncouth. Enough friends at delt
54 Goldenshield : I still can't believe that you are honestly of the belief that regional pilots are just going out and stealing flying right out from under the nose o
55 mcdu : If you are driving the getaway car at a bank robbery you still get charged with a crime...... My apologies for his behavior. We have our 10% of peopl
56 brilondon : When Jazz flies them to YXU it is mainly for maintenance. Once they are done they fly empty back to YYZ. Just as a side note, AC flies ERJ 190's to Y
57 Post contains images lightsaber : I find it interesting as to how Boyd went from being bullish on the 50-seaters to as soon as his company couldn't sell consultation services to airpor
58 Goldenshield : Using such logic then, why are the getaway drivers (the regional pilots) getting placed with all the blame? They're not the one that actually robbing
59 EMBQA : You need to look again.. When Freedom / Mesa shut down all 36 E145's are now sitting in storage.
60 cslusarc : By 2020 the Skywest group of airlines won't be flying as many CRJs. For example when their Capacity Purchase Agreements with Delta Air Lines ends on
61 mcdu : Their own branded flying....... At least that hasn't failed in the past ACA-independence, Expressjet, Mesa, all resounding non-successes. If the main
62 iad51fl : And that happened within the last year. Boyd and others have been saying that the 50 seat market has been dying since 2006ish. ExpressJet as UAX has
63 N685FE : Are you saying you should get paid the same as someone in a heavy? Keep dreaming. I hate to tell you, but size does make a difference, that's what ma
64 ThePinnacleKid : No., You need to read what I was writing that remark in response to. It was simply part of a longer point about what constitutes mainline vs. regiona
65 N685FE : What they should have done was stuck with the current line up, MD90, A318 or the 737-600. The next generation of RJ's will be encroaching into the cap
66 columba : Maybe this has more to do with the ago of the Saabs...they are much older then the RJs. The Q400 is a good CRJ 200 replacement for many airlines.
67 Flighty : Well the thing is... how many CRJ-200 departures are there per day in the USA? Guessing 5,000? This isn't an aircraft even close to going out of busi
68 RebelDJ : Not sure about elsewhere in Europe, but there's at least 7 LH CRJ 100/200s parked up at CGN and have been for getting on for a year.
69 norcal : I wouldn't say UA pilots gave away the flying. They essentially had a gun placed to their heads during the chapter 11 proceedings. They could either
70 N685FE : Yes, your correct. If mainline took back all the flying above 50 seats, it would be a lot better off for everyone. Right now with the scope continuin
71 ThePinnacleKid : As it stands now... the "Regionals" are morphing slowly into "Mainline" carriers while the "Mainlines" are becoming the higher paid feed for the "Reg
72 Goldenshield : Speaking of that, I find it funny that everyone seems to conveinently forget that at one time, even the dominant mainline carriers started out as reg
73 mcdu : There is a huge fly in the ointment of your analogy. As a customer there is no way to buy a ticket on any of those carriers. A member of the public b
74 ikramerica : Why? We hear this argument a lot from pilots, but it's never explained. It's simply a given, and if we don't accept it as a given, it's never explain
75 ThePinnacleKid : Careful. You begin to tread on thin ice with those statements. Your statement discredits the men and women who are employed by the "fake" airlines. I
76 Goldenshield : For all intents and purposes, they are. The ticketing part has just sat dormant since 1995.
77 ikramerica : Regionals also have their own charters that don't involve the "real" airline at all.
78 Post contains links ThePinnacleKid : excellent point... right of the top.. here are two... http://www.xjtcorporateaviation.com/ http://www.shuttleamerica.com/charters.html
79 mcdu : When skywest starts a reservation center, marketing their own flights under their own name then you can take them seriously. Your LH -UA analogy is as
80 N685FE : It was established long ago, it's what the pilot group was able to negotiate with the company. I would guess it has to do with the extra amount of re
81 yellowtail : CO seems to do really well with the 50 seaters IAH-Mexican landing strips. It is probably the best role for the aircraft. Small but high yielding 1.5
82 Post contains images mrocktor : Credit were it is due, the man saw the trend before most everyone else. He is just wrong about the final destination. Whenever someone thinks he is t
83 IMissPiedmont : Livestock shelters, hmmm. How about sheds, they are the right size for that. Nope, the Dash 8. Much better airplane for routes under 300 miles. I sus
84 Goldenshield : They had all of that until they signed a contract with UA that basically FORBADE them from selling tickets under their own name. They still have an I
85 sldispatcher : So will "milk run" type routes become vogue again with the loss of 50 seaters? I'm not sure of the economics, but is it cheaper to send one larger pla
86 PSU.DTW.SCE : 50 seat RJs are going to be around for many years to come. Yes there is being a fleet right-sizing and reduction of excess capacity, which also parall
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