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BA Are Planning A Major Push At LCY  
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3232 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15225 times:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...s-12-potential-takeover-targets.do

Article in the London Evening Standard tonight.
"Potentially to Boston,Washington or Chicago."
"With a lead time of 9 months the new City routes could be flying before the end of next year."
Hmmm!


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15117 times:

Lots of A318s kicking about - wouldnt be that hard. Mexicana, Frontier etc all getting rid of theirs and i dare say Tarom would be ok about parting with theirs too. Do they all have the right donks though?

Is DXB do-able ex-LCY with an A318?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineyendig From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15006 times:
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From GC: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=l...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

Given that DXB is only 73 miles closer to LCY than JFK, I'd imagine a similar fuel limit would apply and they'd have to stop en-route.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 14941 times:

Quoting yendig (Reply 2):
From GC: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=l...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

Given that DXB is only 73 miles closer to LCY than JFK, I'd imagine a similar fuel limit would apply and they'd have to stop en-route.

They'd be able to do it non-stop on the way back but the runway length would preclude non-stop on the way out. Given that LHR-DXB flies almost directly overhead FRA, I wonder if a refuelling stop at FRA might work out nicely...



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 14885 times:

I doubt we will see any eastbound flights with the 318 ex LCY.... it just doesnt make sense. Why do that flight with a stop?

It does however have its advantages going to the USA as you can pre clear customs in Shannon.


User currently offlineSlinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 14845 times:

Interesting that BOS is mentioned, just after BA/AA had to give up slots to BOS from LHR!

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Lots of A318s kicking about - wouldnt be that hard. Mexicana, Frontier etc all getting rid of theirs and i dare say Tarom would be ok about parting with theirs too. Do they all have the right donks though?

Weren't BA's A318s 'factory fitted' with additional strength and larger fuel tanks - perhaps BA would be better of buying new?


User currently offlineyendig From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 14822 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I wonder if a refuelling stop at FRA might work out nicely...


Wouldn't stopping at a smaller airport be more appealing re. clearing customs? Or if at a larger facility how about a hub of one of your alliance partners (new Berlin)?

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=l...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=


User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14763 times:

Won't they just convert the 5 A320's that have been transferred over from Iberia, and use these five to launch the additional routes.

I think it was a no-brainer that BA would eventually expand this service out of LCY once the global economies improved. They will want to get in a do it before any one else gets any ideas about launching similar services.

Exciting times ahead!


User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5136 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14686 times:

Quoting yendig (Reply 6):
Wouldn't stopping at a smaller airport be more appealing re. clearing customs? Or if at a larger facility how about a hub of one of your alliance partners (new Berlin)?

You cant clear customs, as you would be landing in a third country. It just so happens that Ireland has US Custom facilities, and you can pre-clear there. I dont think there are any other countries that have this arrangement.

Therefore any stop would be purely to refuel, and as such it makes far more sense to stop at a relatively unused airport, due to no queues and far cheaper landing fees.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14687 times:

Quoting BAfan (Reply 7):
Won't they just convert the 5 A320's that have been transferred over from Iberia, and use these five to launch the additional routes.

I think it was a no-brainer that BA would eventually expand this service out of LCY once the global economies improved. They will want to get in a do it before any one else gets any ideas about launching similar services.

Exciting times ahead!

I dont think the 320 is certified for the LCY approach - A318s only I think. There may be an issue with pavement loading as well with a A320 at MTOW.

Quoting yendig (Reply 6):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I wonder if a refuelling stop at FRA might work out nicely...


Wouldn't stopping at a smaller airport be more appealing re. clearing customs? Or if at a larger facility how about a hub of one of your alliance partners (new Berlin)?

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=l...TYLE=

Berlin would be a better bet yes - good shout.

Quoting Slinky09 (Reply 5):
Weren't BA's A318s 'factory fitted' with additional strength and larger fuel tanks - perhaps BA would be better of buying new?

They've got some A32X options IIRC so could certainly do it. I'd still rather see them buy the F9 birds that are going to be broken up though, but thats only because it breaks my heart to see such a young (and so pretty) babybus busted up for parts.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14680 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 4):
It does however have its advantages going to the USA as you can pre clear customs in Shannon.

That´s the great advantage.... arriving USA like a domestic flight and jumping the line at immigration.....

ORD, BOS, IAD are logical steps..... so maybe they can free up a plane a pair of slots to operate new flights...

What about ATL, DFW, IAH or even Canada Toronto or Montreal??? or maybe adding more to NYC...


User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14519 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
Potentially to Boston,Washington or Chicago.
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Is DXB do-able ex-LCY with an A318?




BA talked about the East Coast routes, and Dubai, back in February...

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...um-us-routes-from-london-city.html


User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14501 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 9):
I dont think the 320 is certified for the LCY approach - A318s only I think. There may be an issue with pavement loading as well with a A320 at MTOW.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself, I meant convert the 5 A320's to A318's so they could get them earlier. Would all depend on how much they need those A320's for LHR I guess.

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
Potentially to Boston,Washington or Chicago

I have flown the ORD-LHR flight a good few times and Club World is always full, I wouldn't be surprised if this route took off, I have never flown to Boston or Washington from London though.

What are people's thoughts, which routes would start first?

[Edited 2010-09-06 10:52:05 by srbmod]

User currently offlineyendig From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14391 times:
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Quoting nighthawk (Reply 8):
You cant clear customs, as you would be landing in a third country. It just so happens that Ireland has US Custom facilities, and you can pre-clear there. I dont think there are any other countries that have this arrangement.

Thanks for the clarification, Nighthawk.


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3232 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 14282 times:

Quoting BAfan (Reply 13):

I agree with you ORD-LHR very busy, the chance to land in the City with minimal immigration lines has to be appealing to the Business Houses in ORD who deal with the City each day. Bet local big hotel chains would soon offer an early morning arrival package,via the airline, for City flyers.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3906 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 14249 times:

I think it's a brilliant idea and they're smart to pounce on the opportunity. BA has the name recognition on both sides of the pond, the demand, the pricing power and is clearly making the LCY niche work to its advantage. I think the USA and the pre clearing of US customs in SNN are the deal sealers in making this operation work. Going anywhere else, long-haul would require a stop for fuel and the guest still have to clear customs upon arrival. Al the convenience is killed, they might as well go to LHR to jump on a BA flight. Within Europe, the niche is filled clearly with BA Cityflyer and their EMB fleet.

*Changed BA Connect to Cityflyer

[Edited 2010-09-06 10:57:09]

User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 14194 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 16):
the niche is filled clearly with BA Connect

BA Connect ?


User currently offlineukoverlander From United Kingdom, joined May 2010, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 14121 times:

Does anybody know the maximum westbound range of BA's A318's with an intermediate refueling stop out of Shannon allowing for average head winds, fuel for diversion, etc assuming a full load of passengers (and assuming it can 0 stop with tail winds on the way home)?

I do realize there is probably going to no single answer to that question as different destinations will have diferent variables but hopefully somebody can make a reasonable assumption. An A318 will perhaps also have a larger number of possible alternate airports than some of the larger aircraft so pehaps that also gives some flexibility?

If I'm right the A318 is the only bird that can do this from LCY right now but it is also is a bit slower than the big jets. Assuming the business traffic exists to make it viable I'm wondering at what range would an A318 cease to be competitive over larger, faster aircraft flying from larger airports.


User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 13933 times:

LCY-BDA?

too short blah blah blah


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 13611 times:

I'm not sure there is anything new here, beyond what has been said previously. WW is bound to want to give a positive message to the press, but there is nothing firm in terms of A318 deliveries.

User currently offlineMCO2BRS From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 13195 times:

I could see an additional frequency to JFK, adding ORD [MDW, even?] and possibly DXB via VIE or FRA within a couple of years.

I think if LCY-DXB were to come to fruition, a tech stop in either FRA or VIE wouldn't be such an inconvenience, especially if it was timed well. They could always carry traffic LCY-VIE/FRA and DXB-VIE/FRA as well. Has the JFK-LCY flight ever had to make a tech stop in SNN or DUB?

Cheers

MCO 2 BRS


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 12869 times:

I can see ORD-LCY working nicely. There is significant premium O&D traffic on the route, and ATI would not hurt connections. I also think BOS and IAD have potential as well, and in the long term DFW and IAH.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (3 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 12565 times:

Quoting Slinky09 (Reply 5):
Weren't BA's A318s 'factory fitted' with additional strength and larger fuel tanks

I don't think that's correct. Can anyone at BA confirm? I thought they were standard A318s.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 10):
What about ATL, DFW, IAH or even Canada Toronto or Montreal???

ATL highly unlikely for a Oneworld carrier with virtually no feed beyond ATL, and ATL-LON is not a major O&D market. DFW and IAH are almost certainly beyond A318 range. You'd need a BBJ with extra tanks like the PrivatAir BBJ used on KLM's AMS-IAH all-business class servicee (block time is about 10.5 hrs). And YYZ and YUL don't have enough premium demand. BA hasn't even offered F class on LHR-YUL for the past few years.

Another issue is that LCY ramp space is very limited. Having 4 or 5 A318-size aircraft parked at LCY simultaneously would likely not be possible, and to offer attractive schedules for the type of traffic using those flights means relatively limited scheduling windows.


User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1012 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (3 years 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 11820 times:

Quoting yendig (Reply 13):
You cant clear customs, as you would be landing in a third country. It just so happens that Ireland has US Custom facilities, and you can pre-clear there. I dont think there are any other countries that have this arrangement.

You can clear US immigration/customs in Toronto as well. For the A318 flights from LCY that is of limited use though, of course...

Cheers
micha


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 11820 times:

I had a conversation with a guy from BA Ops and PLanninga nd he mentioned the new Chambery route from LCY back then ( a couple of months ago). I asked specifically about longhaul expansion out of LCY to the likes of Washington (DCA or IAD), BOS, ORD and DXB and he categorically stated that there was no longhaul expansion planned from LCY in the forseeable future. Now, he could have been BS'ing me and if he was he had one hell of a poker face  

I dont see any expansion out of LCY in the next 18 months or so. I think we'll need to see the Premium cabins out of LHR pick up a lot more before we see more "Club only" flights take place. The European market is a big part of the strategy at LCY I believe. They are marketing a lot of routes towards the young and single city boys who want to get away to the sunshine for the weekend this summer, or the snow in the winter.



There's flying and then there's flying
25 BOStonsox : I hope that this turns out to be true. BOS-LCY would be something to see. BOS is the other side of the harbor from downtown Boston, making it the firs
26 Eagleboy : I think its the pre-clearance that makes this service work. The A318 is slower across the pond than a BA/VS B777/B747/A340........the theory is that
27 Viscount724 : Not correct. US pre-clearance also exists in Bermuda, the Bahamas (Nassau and Freeport), and Aruba.
28 styles9002 : Indeed, but those airport clearances are really a pain in the ass, especially AUA, where you have to cart your luggage after check-in twice.
29 tristarsteve : No. They are pretty standard A318. They do not have ACTs. They were not available at the time, and the route doesn't need them. The weight of this ta
30 MAH4546 : I'm willing to bet ORD or IAD over BOS. BOS-LON is such a short route that, in today's corporate travel budget slashing, it increasingly does not qual
31 MCO2BRS : Slightly off topic... but what exactly does BA do with the A318's on Saturdays when the JFK flights do not operate? Do they RON at LCY and/or JFK betw
32 web500sjc : what would be the problem with flying in to MDW? wouldnt that be better option for this time sensitive crowd...
33 Eagleboy : The internet has lied to me yet again! I misread the SNN marketing blurb of ".....only airport in Europe to offer....." Do these islands have special
34 runway23 : Faster into the loop sure, but BA would be compromising: -passenger who wish to connect onto AA's network -passengers who are staying around the ORD
35 aznmadsci : While IAH-LCY might be one range issue, would the A318 be able to do LCY-SNN-IAH, with the preclearance at SNN?
36 skipness1E : Whoooaaaaahhhh. Couple of things worth dragging us back to reality To work from the US there would need to be morning arrivals. There is *no* spare ra
37 skipness1E : One weekends at JFK Fri afternoon until Sunday evening, the other either daystops at LCY from Sat morning until Sun afternoon or positions out and ba
38 planesailing : I have seen the A318s by the BA hangers at LGW on the weekend. Afterall it is LGW crew who operate them.
39 lapper : Not quite correct. It is Airbus flight crew (LHR based but can operate out of LGW too) with LCY steep approach training and LGW cabin crew.
40 SR4ever : What about LCY-EIS, with a revenue stop + refuelling in JER?
41 RyanairGuru : How do they crew these flights? Back in the good old days (aka LHR LH crews) they would no doubt have received a scenic bus tour around London on the
42 tim222 : WW has stated there would be no east bound flights from LCY due to numerous things apart from the fact that who would want to stop in somewhere like G
43 CcrlR : Preclearance exists in several major airports in Canada(Halifax, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto Pearson, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver), Bermuda,
44 mozart : I understand the restrictions posed by the runway length. So how much longer would the runway need to be for the A318 to take off at MTOW and do the N
45 offloaded : I do not know, but then you are, in part defeating the object of pre clearing US Customs and Immig. at SNN.
46 slz396 : About the pre-clearance: I suppose that is done by US customs staff sent overseas? While I can see it being done in neighbouring countries without too
47 Post contains images SR4ever : Tortola is a major off-shore funds centre, and so is Jersey. With LCY, it could be a good combination, and a 32-seater all-J aircraft might be the ri
48 skipness1E : No one is talking of extending the runway, particularly not to expose the local population to even more jet noise for the benefit of the bankers who
49 readytotaxi : Now, there is an interesting point. Why not? Something to do with a countries Sovereign right or just political awkwardness, would be nice to know.
50 Aesma : As I understand it, BA doesn't buy second hand planes, ever.
51 skipness1E : No that's not true. It's rare but it does happen. They took G-TTOB and G-TTOE from easyJet last year as they had been ordered by GB Airways in the fi
52 yellowtail : That is a great idea! Love it....when can we start?
53 seansasLCY : LCY does plan to extend the apron further along the dock like the current area where the A318 parks. The plans have been on their website for some ti
54 kaitak : I wonder if there are any plans to boost the short haul routes from LCY too? I recall that WW said some time ago that the days of C class on short hau
55 antonovman : Apparently they had pre-clearance in LHR years ago and it was abandoned due to cost. Anyone have any more info on this ?
56 Post contains links BAfan : Refer to the LCY Masterplan for the airports future developments: http://www.londoncityairport.com/Downloads/MasterPlan.pdf The airport recently recei
57 JBAirwaysFan : I would add PHL to that list too.
58 migair54 : Why LCY don´t get rid of the Business jets?? they could use that space to park some planes..... I think is much more important commercial aviation fo
59 yellowtail : Answer = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
60 Viscount724 : Also Dublin, but only for immigration, not customs pending completion of terminal construction at DUB. However, immigration preclearance is still a b
61 migair54 : I think one A318 makes more more money for LCY than any business jet....... maybe I´m wrong...... but an A318 all F configuration is quite a lot of
62 Post contains links gdg9 : http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/preclear_locations.xml I believe full pre-clearance at Dublin is about to start soon, if it hasn't already
63 GlobalCabotage : BA could try MDW, but I don't think they would do too well on this route. ORD, as much as people hate the place, is where the money in Chicago chooses
64 VV701 : There is no requirement for AA/BA to give up slots that they use for their LHR-BOS-LHR services. However under certain circumstances there is a requi
65 Viscount724 : Only 15 minutes at LCY if you have no checked baggage,which I expect is the situation for most LCY-JFK passengers.
66 abrelosojos : = This is very true. Additionally, the "time saved" from pre-clearing at SNN is minimal when arriving at BOS vs. IAD/ORD/JFK. Finally, data suggests
67 BOStonsox : Why is this an issue with BOS and not JFK or IAD? JFK-LON and IAD-LON are longer than BOS-LON by less than an hour.
68 skipness1E : Good plan! P*** off the bankers who support your airport and make them drive to Luton, Stansted or Northolt instead of having convenient access. That
69 VV701 : BA are likely to get a very much greater financial return from a slot if it is used for a TATL flight and not a domestic flight to EDI or GLA or a ho
70 skipness1E : I can. The reason they got the long haul slots at LHR was in moving some of the GLA and EDI to LCY. People are missing just how niche this service is
71 Post contains links VV701 : I said that BA had increased their share of LHR slots from 37.9 per cent to 42.3 per cent between 2001 and 2010. With respect it should be clear that
72 AirNZ : I would agree with you completely, and your reasoning is indeed accurate and well described.
73 skipness1E : Thanks. That was my point. When these services would operate there is no space. Hence any expansion would result in BA Cityflyer taking a hit by losin
74 GlobalCabotage : LCY-ORD seems to be a no brainer. Is DCA possible over IAD with a SNN stopover (seems to me it would work)? Also, with ATI and premium traffic, DFW an
75 flyby519 : LCY-SNN-DCA would work westbound, but DCA-???-LCY would be necessary for a fuel stop going eastbound. Maybe a DCA-BOS-LCY?Or maybe tag it to the exis
76 BAfan : Surely if they have increased the number of annual movements by 40,000 a year this indicates there is spare capacity at LCY. I am sure some of the BA
77 skipness1E : They can up the number of movements all they want, it's not directly relevant to the issue at hand. At peak times, when their core customers travel, t
78 Post contains images BAfan : I'm sure the real CEO will soon be giving you the answer... [Edited 2010-09-09 02:22:01]
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