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Portugese Government Trying To Sell TAP.   
User currently offlinecadamosto From Portugal, joined Jul 2010, 44 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6634 times:

Portuguese govt. will try to sell TP. This time it looks more serious than the usual talk on the subject.

http://www.ionline.pt/conteudo/76903...gral-ja-esta-nos-planos-do-governo (in portuguese only)

I don't know if there are any real negotiations going on. But there has been plenty of comments from governmental sources about the need of recapitalization of the company, and about the poor results of the 1st semester (not quite true and not a good strategy to sell).

Any hints on the possible buyers? LH maybe?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting cadamosto (Thread starter):
Any hints on the possible buyers? LH maybe?

LH would definitely make sense, but perhaps they would be one of the dozen Willie Walsh was referring to as well.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

BA/IB ?

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ral_aviation/read.main/4920939/#44


User currently offlinecadamosto From Portugal, joined Jul 2010, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 2):

That would make them a colossus in South America connections to Europe!


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

I alway said that IB should have bought TP years ago and become the biggest player in all of South America....

User currently offlineLatinThug From Portugal, joined Jan 2007, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

With the possibilty of the new TAM/LAN leaving STAR, would they allow TAP to be bought by BA/IB ?

STAR would be miniscule in South America.

I think LH would stop any threat from BA/IB. But does LH have the ££$$ to spend on another purchase right now?


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

If takeover by another airline makes sense it is LH.

Purchase by BA/IB or AF/KL would make any of them the dominat player in a whole segment, no chance to go through anti trust.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Its screaming for someone like LH to come in and take TAP over. I cannot see how BA/IB would be allowed to go for her what with their South America ops they now have. With TAP, they would effectively have the market sewn up.

User currently offlinePhotoLPPT From Portugal, joined Jul 2004, 511 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5695 times:

Well, the most obvious contenders are IB/BA and LH, that's for sure. TP brazilian network is worth a lot, and would be interesting for any of them, Then there's TAM/LAN, which I guess would love some part in a EU airline.

But apart from that, one can wonder if some Middle East airline would like some participation in a EU airline with strong ties to Brasil.

The government of Angola, with or without participation from TAAG, I'm guessing would be *very* interested in TAP, plus they have plenty cash from Oil. They already have strong positions in other portuguese companies, like banks and telecoms.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):

Purchase by BA/IB or AF/KL would make any of them the dominat player in a whole segment, no chance to go through anti trust.

What would be the problem ? In Portuguese terms it would be no more of a monopoly than at present, and in EU terms a combined BA/IB/TAP wouldn't be a monopoly either, it would probably still be no larger than LH or AF/KLM


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

I think BA-IB will try to buy TAP and if they fail IB will expand in Brazil more...... I heard rumors, IB is preparing to serve Salvador de Bahia and a tag-on beyond..... Maybe Fortaleza?? Brasilia??.... anyway that means that they are thinking about the tag-on as the first step to open that flight direct in the future.....

LH will fight for TAP because they really need more presence in South America... but I don´t know if they are able to do it right now....

AF-KLM... they just don´t need TAP.... they have a good presence in South America and if they do something it will be AF adding flight and not buying TAP....


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8211 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 10):
LH will fight for TAP because they really need more presence in South America... but I don´t know if they are able to do it right now....

With the new Brazil-EU "almost open skies" agreement, TP is significantly less valuable to any potential European buyer. If TP goes out of business, any of the large carriers could easily pick and chose from whatever routes they want out of LIS/OPO to Brazil. They no longer need to buy TP in order to get in on the Portugal-Brazil market. They just have to wait for TP to fizzle away. The time for TP to go public was 2-3 years ago, prior to the global economic crisis and when they reported a 60+ million Euro profit, and there was no EU-Brazil open skies.
This is not to say that TP does not have any value. Their Brazilian and African operations generate a lot of cash flow. TP's airline operations has historically been profitable. And TP's brand recognition in Brazil is second to none. There is value in all of that, just not nearly as much as there was only a couple of years ago.


User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
With the new Brazil-EU "almost open skies" agreement, TP is significantly less valuable to any potential European buyer. If TP goes out of business, any of the large carriers could easily pick and chose from whatever routes they want out of LIS/OPO to Brazil. They no longer need to buy TP in order to get in on the Portugal-Brazil market. They just have to wait for TP to fizzle away. The time for TP to go public was 2-3 years ago, prior to the global economic crisis and when they reported a 60+ million Euro profit, and there was no EU-Brazil open skies.
This is not to say that TP does not have any value. Their Brazilian and African operations generate a lot of cash flow. TP's airline operations has historically been profitable. And TP's brand recognition in Brazil is second to none. There is value in all of that, just not nearly as much as there was only a couple of years ago.

I agree with you, man... Although I need to add that TAP's main strength in its int'l network in Africa and South America are the exact same geographical areas where LH is looking at expanding lately.... This makes TAP a good target for LH... Also, I've heard that LH has had the money for TAP parked on the sidelines for years waiting for the privatization to begin! I have a feeling that once the portuguese gov't decides to go ahead, it will be finished before it begins!  


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3879 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):
With the new Brazil-EU "almost open skies" agreement, TP is significantly less valuable to any potential European buyer. If TP goes out of business, any of the large carriers could easily pick and chose from whatever routes they want out of LIS/OPO to Brazil. They no longer need to buy TP in order to get in on the Portugal-Brazil market. They just have to wait for TP to fizzle away. The time for TP to go public was 2-3 years ago, prior to the global economic crisis and when they reported a 60+ million Euro profit, and there was no EU-Brazil open skies.

They still have the structure created and that's very valuable and with another "owner" we could see more being added. TP as you said have a very interesting asset that could be further explored. More flights to Brazil, some markets in Asia, more markets in Africa, a few in South America...



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Lufthansa and nobody else.


That would be a big advantage for Lufthansa after the BA/IB merger.


Fleet-wise it would be a perfect addition without any costly re-organization in contrast to AUA in the moment.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
What would be the problem ? In Portuguese terms it would be no more of a monopoly than at present, and in EU terms a combined BA/IB/TAP wouldn't be a monopoly either, it would probably still be no larger than LH or AF/KLM

It wouldn't be larger, but they would have to cut South America routes down to not have more than AF/KL have, which makes it worthless.


User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

TAP would nicely fit Lufthansa's growth strategy to buy up 'specialists' in order to increase its presence in certain continents where it isn't a big player right now:

For this reason, they have bought into:

SN for Africa

OS for Kaukasus

maybe also TP for South America?

TP is a * alliance member, so that makes it a logical step to consolidate it into the LH group, especially as airline consolidation is predominantly happening along alliance lines it seems and only rarely happens accross alliance borders.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Are there any actual hints where LANTAM is going alliance wise?

edited for Typo

[Edited 2010-09-08 02:10:50]

User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3622 times:

LH makes indeed more sense.

Even if LATAM remains within Star, there will less Anti-Trust issues with TP-LH-LATAM than with TP-BA-IB-LATAM.


Additionally, TP joining the LH Group would probably further undermine the more than dominant position which AF-KL enjoy in Africa, and even more are ties between MS, ET and SA and other Star Alliance european members develop.

Once LH acquires TP, which would the next airlines to join the LH Group: JK, LG, SK, LO, OA/A3, OU, JP ?


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3540 times:

Am I correct in assuming that a TP sell or acquisition would include Portugalia as well? Are they seperate ownership?


I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8211 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 19):
Am I correct in assuming that a TP sell or acquisition would include Portugalia as well? Are they seperate ownership?

I would think so since Portugalia is TAP.
Here's another recente development that is likely to have an impact on TAP: SQ will likely start BCN-GRU in 6 months. Granted it will only be 3x weekly but for *A First and Business class customers now BCN becomes a very attractive alternative to fly to GRU on a airline that offers a much supperior product. This is likely to have a sizable impact on TP's premium GRU market and if it goes to daily TP can kiss goodbye to most of it's premium connecting passengers cause there's no way in hell TP can compete with SQ on the Europe-GRU connecting market. TP's only hope is that SIN-GRU grows to be big enough to occupy the premium cabins  


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3465 times:
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Quoting 328JET (Reply 14):
Lufthansa and nobody else.

Well, if we consider that right now the weak alliance on Europe-South America is Skyteam, AF/KL can come to fight for TP as a valuable asset to increase their share to South America, specially with TP know how on Brazilian secondary markets, which could provide valuable advantage against other players, and create an interesting competitive advantage over LH or BA/IB, at least in terms of Brazil.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 17):
Are there any actual hints where LANTAM is going alliance wise?

No... i personally see them closer to OW than Skyteam. Their need of MIA, JFK and MAD (LA of course) is huge, and in the other hand, Star does not provide a key hub like MAD or MIA to them.
Even when we look into JJ, the sole destination that it's more likely *A is just FRA with 12 weekly flights, less than the 28x weekly they deploy to MIA or 18x into JFK, both OW hubs.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3286 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 15):
It wouldn't be larger, but they would have to cut South America routes down to not have more than AF/KL have, which makes it worthless.

Why would they need to do so, surely the EU would look at the overall % of all flights from the EU to any destination, nowhere do the rules state that you can't exceed the market share of a competitor.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8211 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
Well, if we consider that right now the weak alliance on Europe-South America is Skyteam, AF/KL can come to fight for TP as a valuable asset to increase their share to South America

AF has just reported one of their worst annual losses ever at -1.55bn Euro. Do they have the financial resources to outbid LH and spend even more to bring TP's operations into the AF umbrela? I'm not so sure. LH are simply too financially strong and if they really want to they can outbid anyone in Europe at this point.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3114 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 23):
AF has just reported one of their worst annual losses ever at -1.55bn Euro. Do they have the financial resources to outbid LH and spend even more to bring TP's operations into the AF umbrela? I'm not so sure. LH are simply too financially strong and if they really want to they can outbid anyone in Europe at this point.

I got your point, but doesnt mean that AF will not go for the long term. The losses are connected to the lower economic activity and it's important for AF to develop a network that reduces their dependence on Europe. TP can, in fact, allow them to obtain something like a good share from Latin America, specially Brazil.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Post contains links and images swissa330 : Well, it must be LH, after all they buy all former Qualiflyer Group airlines... Here's an overview of the former QG airlines and their fate: http://ww
26 SR4ever : Agreed. The Qualifyer family is being reunited with Star Alliance and the LH Group. I am sure FU and VD/IW/IJ would also be there, had they been able
27 airbazar : A long time rumor circulating in Portugal is that Fernando Pinto, TAP's current CEO, was sent to TAP in 2000 by the then Swissair management to prepar
28 Boeing747_600 : I hope the Government of India is paying close attention!
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