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Interesting Account Of A NW 747 Emergency  
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15901 times:

Saw this article and thought it was a really interesting story, I don't know if it's been posted before and I don't remember reading the story from the pilot (there was a thread about it back in 2002) but it's a good account of a rudder issue on a NW 747 flight from the perspective of the pilot.

http://jalopnik.com/5629528/how-i-saved-a-747-from-crashing

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaB757TUS From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15817 times:

Any pictures of the actual plane with the rudder being shown as described in the article?


A/C Flown: CR1, CR2, CR7, CR9, B727, B732, B733, B735, B752, B762, B764, SF3, EM2, D95, M88
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15807 times:

Quoting DeltaB757TUS (Reply 1):

There's a picture of a rudder of a NW 744 but there's no picture of the actual rudder from the story


User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15530 times:

"We went up in the jetway afterward, and a group of 20 passengers was getting off. This one woman saw me there with my uniform on and she said, are you the pilot who landed this plane? And I said, yes, ma'am. And she said, oh, I could just kiss you. And I said, well, you can kiss me. And she threw her arms around me and gave me a great big kiss on the cheek and thanked me."

This guy's a real pro. Here is the NTSB report of the incident, btw:

http://www.fss.aero/accident-reports/look.php?report_key=1012


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3632 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15375 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 3):
This guy's a real pro. Here is the NTSB report of the incident, btw:

Wow...that was a truly interesting read! Very well thought out by the crew to bring the airplane and its occupants back to safety.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineskygirl1990 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2010, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14325 times:

Thanks for the link! Very interesting read. Although it is a shame there are no pics of the rudder after landing


x Jessie x
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14289 times:

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 5):

Ya i thought so also, I guess that since camera phones weren't everywhere back then it wasn't so easy


User currently onlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 768 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14067 times:

That is why you pay for experienced multiple person cockpit crews. As MOL has stated one person can fly the airplane, when the weather is good and everything is fine. That second (or in this case third and fourth) opinions can mean the difference between standing at the gate getting a peck on the cheek from a thankful passenger or being a smoking hole in the ground.

User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13861 times:

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):

It's stories like this that prove we need actual pilots not unmanned cockpits, it just takes one small problem that the computer can't diagnose where you need the skill of a couple people in the cockpit


User currently offlinebrettdespain From United States of America, joined May 2005, 178 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13223 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 8):
It's stories like this that prove we need actual pilots not unmanned cockpits, it just takes one small problem that the computer can't diagnose where you need the skill of a couple people in the cockpit

Amen. And I'd like to add that cameras outside the airplane recording control surfaces, engines, landing gear and so forth is a much better idea than having cameras in the cockpit. Give us pilots the tools to analyze problems such as this one, rather than to help lawyers assign blame for accidents.



V1...Rotate.
User currently offlineTholin From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 12146 times:

After reading that NTSB abstract, I'm curious to know if it'd been the upper PCM that failed to hardover, would the opposing force of the lower (smaller rudder panel) PCM been sufficient to maintain heading and thwart induced roll, or would they have been crabbing back to Anchorage?

The efforts required by the crew seem to cast doubt on this, raising the question of whether asymmetric throttles might've been necessary.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4511 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
That is why you pay for experienced multiple person cockpit crews.




You got that right.



Something to keep in mind the next time someone suggests we got to 'Pilotless Airliners'



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineNumero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11108 times:

Very interesting read indeed.

Are pilots/flight crew members generally free to write personal accounts about incidents after a board of inquiry report has been issued (in this case the NTSB)? Does it depend on the airline, the law or the personal account itself (e.g. if it differs from the official version, etc.)?



CYQB
User currently offlineezalpha From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10974 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

On an infrequent, but regular basis we have aircraft do a low flyby to confirm gear is down, gear doors look normal, tires are still on the rims, etc. We recently had a situation where a departing 737 had near upset on rotation. (We didn't realized it at the time but it appears that jet blast from a heavy departing on a non-intersecting adjacent runway was the culprit). Suspecting blown tires, the crew held for a while and consulted the mechanics, then did a couple of low passes for a visual inspection. They even had mechanics out on the field trying to get a look-see. From the cab, we have a pretty good view. And a digital camera. I'm wondering if we took a picture, could the flightcrew give us an email address to send it to. Might even be their own BB device. I realize it's really limited to day, VFR and close in to the field, but it might have some value.

Dave in YYZ


User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 931 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10901 times:

Amazing article and amazing pilots!!

Im not taking any credit away from any of those pilots because each one of them did an unbelievable job. With that said though, I do want to say that I think it was key that the original pilot flying while this happened was able to diagnose and regain control of the aircraft as quickly as he did. Who knows, had it been only a second or two more the aircraft could have gone into an unrecoverable attitude. I also find it amazing that that entire empanage did not break off. A rudder deflecting that much at cruise altitude so quickly must have been an unbelievable amount of force being put on that vertical stabilizer.

I would like to shake those pilots hands!

James


User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10570 times:

Quoting Numero4 (Reply 12):
Are pilots/flight crew members generally free to write personal accounts about incidents after a board of inquiry report has been issued (in this case the NTSB)? Does it depend on the airline, the law or the personal account itself (e.g. if it differs from the official version, etc.)?

From the link to the article in the inital post, it notes that this was from a transcript of a 2006 Court hearing, of testimony given in a public courtroom, probably in a related civil lawsuit. That means this is part of the public record of the appropiate Federal or State court that anyone can access.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4511 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9611 times:

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 14):
I also find it amazing that that entire empanage did not break off. A rudder deflecting that much at cruise altitude so quickly must have been an unbelievable amount of force being put on that vertical stabilizer.

You can thank Mr Boeing for that and a structure thats stronger than it needs to be.



Except for that day..



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

Is the 744 the only plane with a split rudder? Would a plane without a split rudder have been toast?

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3708 times:

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 17):
Is the 744 the only plane with a split rudder?

No.

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 17):
Would a plane without a split rudder have been toast?

Not necessarily...it would depend where the rudder broke on a single-rudder aircraft.

Tom.


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