Perhaps more interesting, the airlines confirm that they will launch new "thin" routes to Europe in 2011, as well as one new route between the United States and London.
As for the thin routes, I have been at least hearing a route to Oslo is coming in May, but its just a rumor at this point.
hjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13789 times:
So is this new route to London going to be.... DTW-LHR,
I remember reading that there are about 147,000 PAX between DTW and LON yearly. That equates to about 402 per day. Given stimulated demand, it seems that the numbers could increase on this route.
crosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13715 times:
Quoting hjulicher (Reply 1): So is this new route to London going to be.... DTW-LHR,
I remember reading that there are about 147,000 PAX between DTW and LON yearly. That equates to about 402 per day. Given stimulated demand, it seems that the numbers could increase on this route.
I'm hoping so.
I was just wondering the same thing. DET-LON does have a good amount of traffic, but it's also a route that's already served by another airline. Of course, that doesn't mean that AA/BA can't servce it due to it's LHR hub. In fact, DTW-LHR was the first route that I thought of when the new US to LHR route was mentioned. It was recently served by BA as it is. But if not DTW, then what other possibilities are there? Perhaps some thin maket like STL or IND or BDL (especially since BDL can be flow by a 757, and I'm not sure if STL or IND can be)? Or maybe MSP? Other than this, there really aren't that many cities that aren't already flown by AA/BA.
BY738 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Sep 2000, 1977 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13633 times:
AABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 448 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13535 times:
I wonder if the AA/BA/IB FF coordination will be retroactive to a certain date and allow someone who flew for example BA J Class in September - who would normally fly AA - count those miles/segments as AAdvantage miles?
Coronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1590 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13430 times:
Not that it makes any sense, but if BA could tag on SAN to PHX again until the 787 arrives, I'd be happy as punch.
Sketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1772 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13370 times:
Wow, I didnt realise that the FF programmes would be linked so quickly. When I think of linked though I was thinking more along the lines of some consistency between the produtcs offered through each FF programme.
How long do you think it will take to have the 3 programmes alligned and show commonality?
Quote: Talling-Smith said they planned to start flights to one new U.S. city from London, and explore new routes to continental Europe from North America that would be flown by American with Boeing Co. (BA) 757s and 767s
Is this correct or am I interpreting it incorrectly but the above statememt says that AA will start new routes from NA to Europe on BA aircraft. Surely BA would market the flight with a BA prime flight number and AA and IB codeshare on the route
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4716 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12915 times:
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 6): Not that it makes any sense, but if BA could tag on SAN to PHX again until the 787 arrives, I'd be happy as punch
Oh now where in the world do you come up with some of your ideas, D?
I think we both know that won't happen but I (also) would give my left earlobe to have Speedbird back at Lindbergh! At least we have seen at least one nugget this year (in print, this time!) confirming interest in SAN by BA... So who knows if some pre-Dreamliner service could actually materialize here.
(Unfortunately, with both the San Diego economy and passenger traffic at Lindbergh still looking rather enemic, some kind of London route might be unlikely next year, but just wait for 2012...)
FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3170 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12799 times:
It's no secret that IND wants a nonstop to Europe by the end of the year, and it's been listed by the Indianapolis Airport Authority itself as one of IND's short-term goals. IND-LHR on the AA 75A has been rumored here many times, though others feel that DL/AF/KL will launch IND-CDG first.
After hearing this announcement, I wouldn't be surprised if AA beats DL to the punch.
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2680 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12634 times:
FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3170 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12590 times:
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13): I think that DTW and CLT have the best shot of getting service, DTW was recently suspended, and CLT was suspended in 2003/4ish.
But both have a carrier to London (DTW/DL, CLT/US). It would make more sense to start a route with no nonstop LHR or Europe service whatsoever.
elmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12359 times:
Another announcement with no information about the FF alliance! Someone leak some details!
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 12): I think that DTW and CLT have the best shot of getting service, DTW was recently suspended, and CLT was suspended in 2003/4ish.
Yep, however by that time Charlotte was merely a tag on to BWI. Around the time BA switched BWI from Gatwick to Heathrow the tag was removed.
crAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 572 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12331 times:
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13): It's no secret that IND wants a nonstop to Europe by the end of the year, and it's been listed by the Indianapolis Airport Authority itself as one of IND's short-term goals. IND-LHR on the AA 75A has been rumored here many times, though others feel that DL/AF/KL will launch IND-CDG first.
After hearing this announcement, I wouldn't be surprised if AA beats DL to the punch.
I think MKE has a higher chance of getting a 757 to LHR than IND
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2680 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12109 times:
Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 16): Yep, however by that time Charlotte was merely a tag on to BWI. Around the time BA switched BWI from Gatwick to Heathrow the tag was removed.
How? Because I remember the flight being nonstop to Gatwick, then they changed in to Heathrow with a stop in BWI.
ordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 581 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11281 times:
My biggest question with this is how they will award mileage on the cheap economy seats. BA and IB only give something like 20% of miles whereas AA it is full. As for new routes I would like, revive the Ohare to Edinburgh or Glasgow ( I think AA did one of these routes back in the day) or go to HEL to make AY a more useful OW member to US travelers. As for outright new route, AA seems to be aggressively marketing in MKE, always seeing fare sales out of there to good cities. IND, possible, but I see DL eyeing that more than AA.
planesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4088 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11123 times:
What are the chances of a return of JFK-LGW under the new partnership? New York is no longer served from Gatwick, and BA has a few useful connection opportunities from Gatwick to airports that have no direct competition across the pond (Paphos, Antalya, Varna, Bordeaux, Marseille, Bologna, Catania, Dubrovnik, Genoa, Izmir, Luxembourg, Naples, Pristina, Salzburg, Thessaloniki, Tirana, Tunis, Turin, Verona, Bari, Cagliari, Innsbruck).
Not that you need connections on a route like LON-NYC, there is a large enough market for flights to New York from Gatwick without the connections. The current lack of NYC-LGW service isn't due to a lack of demand, its simply because flights to Heathrow are more successful. BA's LGW-JFK service was never going to be as successful when they have 7 daily services and the flexibility that goes with it from Heathrow, so having 2-3 daily 757s to Gatwick would offer this flexibility on a better suited aircraft, while offering a new selection of connection opportunities.
GlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 601 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11073 times:
As discussed before, JFK-LHR will be shuttle service, ORD-LHR will be near shuttle service, DFW-MAD will move to IB and AA will reallocate the 767 to a "new" route. In addition, EDI, GLA, and BHX (yes BHX) are in the mix for new flights to JFK and ORD. OSL is going to happen, but most likely from ORD (pleanty of NYC capacity, and a cheap shot at Star, but who knows if my sources are that reliable).
elmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10832 times:
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 18): How? Because I remember the flight being nonstop to Gatwick, then they changed in to Heathrow with a stop in BWI.
There was a short period of overlap. IIRC they dropped the tag and started codesharing with American.
Quoting planesarecool (Reply 21): The current lack of NYC-LGW service isn't due to a lack of demand, its simply because flights to Heathrow are more successful.
Which practically adds up to a lack of demand, unfortunately, though I completely agree that a few (2) daily JFK-LGW flights (and 1-2 JFK-STN flights) would work.
USAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2680 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10701 times:
Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 23): Quoting USAirALB (Reply 18):
How? Because I remember the flight being nonstop to Gatwick, then they changed in to Heathrow with a stop in BWI.
There was a short period of overlap. IIRC they dropped the tag and started codesharing with American.
BA started their codeshaker with AA years before the route was dropped.
25 Tan Flyr: that would help the "International" part of the name..years ago AA had a real presence at IND..need to rebuild that and IND-LHR would help, as would
26 Seatback: Delta wasn't too successful with BDL, why would AA? I can't see DTW. It's a total DL town. Why would AA go against that? Would FLL be too much of a l
27 MAH4546: Because most of the traffic is to London. And, again, this is AA and BA operating as one. Yes, but its a large market. AA/BA already fly SFO/PHX/SEA/
28 FL787: BA already flies to LHR from all these cities so, with ATI/JV in place, AA will too.
29 planesarecool: No it doesn't, there is plenty of demand for flights to North America from Gatwick. BA's JFK flight regularly went out full, at least in the rear thr
30 Shadez: Really hoping for it to be FLL. There is certainly the market for a large carrier such as BA/AA to connect FLL to a European hub. The positive results
31 MAH4546: If I had to pick one new route for summer 2011, this is it.
32 OA412: Delta never operated BDL-Europe. NW operated BDL-AMS pre-merger, but that's it. When NW operated BDL-AMS, it was also NW and KL operating as one. The
33 MAH4546: Absolutely not. However, the fact that LHR is BDL's largest trans-Atlantic market (significantly large thanks to insurance, actually, especially when
34 MSYPI7185: BA used to serve MSY as well. That will come back when pigs fly, but it would definitely qualify as a long thin route MD
35 mysterzip: When the airline execs (at least in this case) talk about frequent flier programs being linked - it's more of a tech talk for passengers being able to
36 ANstar: I would like to see some AA presence here in AMS. I know Openskies tried it, but I think if BA/AA cooperate then a AMS-JFK can work.
37 TOMMY767: What about AA 757s to current BA LHR destinations? Maybe PHL/BWI/EWR/IAD-LHR?
38 BAfan: DTW is a good possibility, BA only withdrew the route from my understanding due to the problems in the automotive industries during the downturn. I be
39 downtown273: What happens with those that have FF accounts with all 3 of them? I have most miles with IB but sometimes I earned miles in my AA or BA accounts as IB
40 AIR MALTA: They should merge all the FF programms into Executive Club ala Mile&More.
41 rwSEA: Here, here. BA already has a respectable presence in AMS with the frequency of their flights to LHR and LCY. AMS is easily the largest European desti
42 g2scandinavia: There have been talks between OSL and AA for quite a long time and a launch to OSL would make sense. Unfortunately, there are several obstacles for Am
43 RL757PVD: Well that would be true if Delta was big in London, but they aren't I know by volume London is #1, though I seem to recall the strongest business con
44 Humberside: Don't forget though some of those are served by IB from MAD so already have a one-stop JFK connection. Though certainly I agree there is a market for
45 Gulfstream650: As an American Airlines Executive Platinum Member, I have to say that this is extremely exciting news!
46 steex: Keep in mind that BDL-AMS was in pre-merger NW days, it was not a DL route. As NW had a JV with KL and not with AF, there is no chance that BDL-CDG w
47 RL757PVD: Two things, while it was a DL coded flight, it was still skyteam which did help a little, AA will not have a benefit of this and the fact that DL is
48 mysterzip: Maybe this will be the case with BA/IB, but it ain't gonna happen with AA. This is not a merger. This is a cooperation agreement. What's "merger-like
49 EricR: Yes, but isn't the population of Oslo smaller than Stockholm or Copenhagen? It wouldn't make sense to try to replicate the same capacity for OSL as t
50 commavia: Not to mention that, I personally fully expect that if AA/BA were to launch a BDL-LHR flight, it would probably "lift all boats" for other AA flights
51 RL757PVD: The elite fliers will still likely drive, especially if the trip, whether its Y or J will bump up their status. Another factor just as important as n
52 FWAERJ: Or maybe it could be BA Executive Club on the European side of the Atlantic, and AAdvantage on the American side. BA could keep their stronger progra
53 RL757PVD: Both AA and DL have tried that in the past (though in the opposite direction) without sucess... AA was a 737-800 and DL was a 767-300 that continued
54 planesarecool: If it's FLL, I'm fairly certain that it would be operated from Gatwick. ORD and DFW already have direct flights to Heathrow with AA/BA, so what would
55 commavia: Point taken. But that being said, I could still envision it. If they are going to be eventually flying 757s in and out of LHR to one or several 'thin
56 RL757PVD: I think the damage is done, LAX STL, RDU are not coming back, chances are ORD mainline isnt either (CR7s will though). AA was at their peak there abo
57 commavia: I'm not as pessimistic as you. If they added an LHR flight, I could realistically see AA at BDL become within a few years: DFW - 3x 737 DFW ORD - 2x
58 RL757PVD: The tide must be high, as most of your "risen boats" are actually there already.... Already 3x 738 unless they dropped one this fall Thats roughly the
59 SAM1987: At the end of the day BA would have kept LGW to JFK if it made money. Load factors may have been high but yields clearly weren't there. Agreed. FLL i
60 LAXdude1023: I agree with this. It would be easier for AA just to stick a 757 on the DFW-BDL that arrives at 4:45 pm. That plane could operate a BDL-LHR at around
61 WA707atMSP: When BA discontinued the route, they said "the final nail in the coffin" was loss of a Pfizer corporate contract when Pfizer subsidiary Parke Davis c
62 Sketty222: I believe RBS has one of their US Head Office in Stamford CT. Bearing in mind RBS already have a corporate contract on BA then this could be a good b
63 FWAERJ: Another RBS subsidiary is Citizens Financial Group. RBS Citizens is a major US bank in the Midwest and Northeast under the Citizens Bank and Charter
64 RL757PVD: Its just under 2 hours to BDL, there is no direct interstate connection. The PVD market uses BOS or connects in EWR/PHL/DTW/IAD for the Europe needs.
65 SANFan: As I read through this thread and see the guesses/wishes as to the coveted new US-LON route expected from BA next year, with very few exceptions, SAN
66 pvd757: NOT saying that PVD has any chance at all, but the FAA did a catchement area study as part of the NERASP in 2004 and found that PVD-LON had 124,128 an
67 commavia: SAN clearly has two big impedements: 1. Proximity to LAX - only a 30-minute flight from LAX, with tons of capacity to Europe 2. Runway issue - as has
68 USAirALB: hehehe so, I'm not crazy. I sincerely believe that this route is coming.
69 SANMAN66: FLL is much closer to MIA than SAN is to LAX. Absolutely. ZOOM used a 763 on SAN-LGW. As much as I'd prefer BA to return to SAN, AA would work too. A
70 SANFan: That would be the FLL that is about 25 miles north of MIA, correct? The MIA with a few flights to Europe? But, yeah, I see what you mean about SAN be
71 dfw11: yeah ease up! one can hope for European service to SAN
72 Arn777: Yes Oslo is smaller, but if you look at the international traffic at the three airports and the percentage of pax going direct compared to the number
73 FWAERJ: If you think DL is pesky to FL, wait until you see what would probably happen with BA/AA/IB. DL would probably offer triple SkyMiles and upgauge the
74 VV701: But did the Zoom 763 ever carryi a full load of passengers and freight when operating SAN-L:GW? When BA operated the DC-10 and 744 to SAN the aircraf
75 Super80DFW: For DFW's sake, I wish it was that simple! Unfortunately, there's no regularly schedule 75L's into DFW. DFW does see them rather often on equipment s
76 planesarecool: A once daily frequency is never going to be as profitable as seven daily frequencies. It did make money, it just didn't perform as well as the LHR ro
77 SANFan: [groans] Sorry but this has been discussed so many times before. Let's just leave it at this. BA has come out, a few months ago and in print, express
78 Sketty222: But the T7 would need to be load restricted or go via somewhere else on the Western side of the US. This is probably what stopped the route being pro
79 USAirALB: I have always thought that if AA/BA ever comes to CLT, it will cater to a lot of biz travelers. Face it, even on a 757, the AA First product is a lot
80 SANMAN66: Agreed. Bazillions of times!! If the limitations were such an issue, BA would not have stuck around SAN for so many years. The flight was merely susp
81 GRUIAD: I don't think the new US city will be a "Gatwick" city like Ft. Lauderdale. If you think about it, because AA and BA are "tightening up" the schedule
82 Shadez: Same reason Avianca and Carribean fly to both MIA and FLL. The cheap pax are more likely to head up to FLL, opening up more seats for premium pax at
83 OP3000: Exactly - its an easy addition. And it will catch travelers from north of FLL that might otherwise prefer flying out of FLL/PBI to Europe via ATL, CL
84 GRUIAD: I don't think the objective of this JV is to attract the cheap pax. And how does attracting cheap pax to FLL open up premium seats? If they are budge
85 EricR: Completely agree. I think this continues to be the number 1 impediment to SAN's ability to get N/S international service to Europe. As far as CLT is
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