Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA Equipment Choice LHR-LAS/PHX  
User currently offlineLASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3996 times:

I just have a question: British Airways started service to LAS almost a year ago using a Boeing 777. They've had service to PHX for a few years and they use a B747. Why are these two relatively close cities served with two different types? I mean, why aren't both PHX and LAS served with a 747 or both served with a 777? Capacity? Range (that wouldn't make sense to me because they go to LAX as well which is another 200-some odd miles west)?


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3971 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Why are these two relatively close cities served with two different types?

because they are the right aircraft for the destination- if one 747 goes flop at PHX, you cant send a 747 from LAX without cancelling a flight from LAX- so there is no real reason for serving the same area with similar airplanes.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks ago) and read 3832 times:

I thought it had to do with cargo. PHX generates a significant amount of cargo, which is not only why they get a 747, but why BA even continues almost-daily service to an otherwise heavily tourist destination.


"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks ago) and read 3829 times:

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter):
I mean, why aren't both PHX and LAS served with a 747 or both served with a 777?

Why would they need to be? JFK is served mainly by 744s, EWR is served mainly by 777s, it doesn't matter.

Besides, LAS is a 3-class route so has to be operated by 777s (or 767) unless they were to start offering F on the route.


User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks ago) and read 3750 times:

The Phoenix flight started July 1, 1996 so it has been flying now for 14 years, at first it was a DC10-30 (4) days a week and now a daily 747-400. We even brought the Concorde into Phoenix on a charter on 1996.

Cheers,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

There are a couple reasons:
1.) Competition - BA's service to PHX is the only non-stop European flight from PHX. LAS has 3 to 4 carriers providing non-stop service to Europe.
2.) Cargo - A big money maker for BA on this route is the cargo. It is my understanding that the belly is full of in both directions on almost every flight.

Considering metropolitan PHX has population of 4.5 million and BA has the only N/S service to Europe from PHX, it is easy to understand how it is able to support a 747 6X per week. If another European airline started service to PHX, we might see BA downgrade to a 777.


User currently onlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 5):
If another European airline started service to PHX, we might see BA downgrade to a 777.

That's exactly what they did when LH started flying to PHX.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7538 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3252 times:

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 2):
I thought it had to do with cargo. PHX generates a significant amount of cargo, which is not only why they get a 747,

I am not sure that there is any significant difference in the cargo carrying capacity between the 772 and the 744. For example bothj can carry up to a maximum of 32 LD3. However I believe tha cargo hold of a 772 is just a little larger than that of a 744.

My best guess is that there aren two main reasons why BA uses a 744 to PHX.

Having started the service back in the mid 1990s they replaced the DC-10 they initiallly used with a 744. They then split the LON-PHX-=SAN service into two, operating separate 772 flights to both PHX and SAN. Finally they upgraded the PHX 722 to a 6-weekly 744 flight.

So the current service has been built up over 14 years. On the other hand the LAS service is relatively new.

BA have no TATL direct flight competition from PHX while several other airlines operate TATL services out of PHX.

While PHX is primarily a holiday destination there many multinational corporations with significant operations in the greater Phoenix area. They include, for example, AmEx, Honeywell and Intel. The obvious link for local employees of these corporations and their extensive European operations is obviously the BA flight and one can be pretty sure that BA has business contracts with these and other corporations. Indeed I believe that one of the most successful cards AmEx has in the UK is that issued through British Airways.


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

LAS rumoured to go 744.... . ...

User currently offlinemccarranmgr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Quoting BY738 (Reply 8):
LAS rumoured to go 744.... . ...

Exactly. The talk of the 747 has been ramping up recently as well as the 773.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
While PHX is primarily a holiday destination there many multinational corporations with significant operations in the greater Phoenix area. They include, for example, AmEx, Honeywell and Intel. The obvious link for local employees of these corporations and their extensive European operations is obviously the BA flight and one can be pretty sure that BA has business contracts with these and other corporations. Indeed I believe that one of the most successful cards AmEx has in the UK is that issued through British Airways.

This is inaccurate. It is a large misconception that PHX is PRIMARILY a holiday destination. Only 7.9% of the greater metro PHX workforce is in the Leisure & Hospitality industry (source: Greater Phoenix Economic Council: Oct 2009).

Tourism is an important component to the overall economy and generates a larger percentage of total revenue than some other cities in the United States, but to say PRIMARILY is incorrect. PHX is not Disneyworld, there is no beach, there are no large tourist attractions (other than the Grand Canyon which is 4.5 hours from PHX and closer to LAS), and the summers are bloody hot.

[Edited 2010-09-09 09:21:25]

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7538 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 10):
This is inaccurate.

Thanks for your correction. But it does emphasise the point I was making about the importance of Phoenix as a commercial centre.

I agree that the summers are very hot which is why the two touring vcacations I have taken that started in Phoenix were both in the spring - February and March. This timing also tends to coincide with the flowering of trhe desert cacti and lower air fares on the flight from London.

From my own experience I would dispute the suggestion that there is a lack of tourist destinations in southern Arizona. Amongst the places I would highly recommend are the Apache Trail to the east of Phoenix, Oak Creek Canyon and Sedona to the north, Saguaro National Park, Tucson, the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, Tombstone, the Sky Island Scenic Byway and, especially for a-nutters, the Pina Air and Space Museum. And a short stay at one of the Scotsdale resort hotels should also be on visitors' itineraries. Soutrhern Arizona may not be Disneyworld but it is my view that it is none the worse for that.

Many of the above plus much more is covered in the 'Arizona Highways' magazine. Here is a link to its web site:

http://www.arizonahighways.com/


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
From my own experience I would dispute the suggestion that there is a lack of tourist destinations in southern Arizona. Amongst the places I would highly recommend are the Apache Trail to the east of Phoenix, Oak Creek Canyon and Sedona to the north, Saguaro National Park, Tucson, the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, Tombstone, the Sky Island Scenic Byway and, especially for a-nutters, the Pina Air and Space Museum. And a short stay at one of the Scotsdale resort hotels should also be on visitors' itineraries. Soutrhern Arizona may not be Disneyworld but it is my view that it is none the worse for that.



You are correct. There are more tourist attractions in Arizona than I mentioned. In addition to the items you mentioned, the metro PHX area also brings in thousands of people each year for MLB Spring Training games, the Fiesta Bowl, and Phoenix Open (FBR Open or whatever it is called now) . In addition, I also forgot to mention the nice desert golf courses that surround the valley.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BA LHR-SAN/PHX/DEN Status? posted Tue Nov 5 2002 00:27:13 by Airplanetire
BA Equipment Question On EWR-LHR posted Fri Mar 10 2000 21:58:41 by CX747
Air Berlin & BA CityFlyer Starting LHR Flights?! posted Wed Sep 1 2010 07:25:01 by 8herveg
Will BA Restart CCS/LHR posted Tue Aug 18 2009 12:54:36 by BA747
BA Problem - SYD-LHR posted Sun Aug 9 2009 02:37:15 by Captainsimon
BA 224 IAD-LHR Morning Flight posted Thu May 21 2009 22:15:34 by RUHFlyer
BA Load Factors Out Of PHX posted Mon Mar 2 2009 22:15:21 by Hpflyboi
BA Flight Between LHR And BWI posted Sun Feb 8 2009 21:08:06 by Airsrpska
XJ To AUS, BOI, DEN, DFW, LAS, PHX, SFO posted Thu Jan 15 2009 18:20:28 by CMHARJ
BA 777 Incident LHR-No Cause Yet? posted Sun Dec 28 2008 13:31:47 by Eastern747