LASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3249 times:
I just have a question: British Airways started service to LAS almost a year ago using a Boeing 777. They've had service to PHX for a few years and they use a B747. Why are these two relatively close cities served with two different types? I mean, why aren't both PHX and LAS served with a 747 or both served with a 777? Capacity? Range (that wouldn't make sense to me because they go to LAX as well which is another 200-some odd miles west)?
web500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 588 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3224 times:
Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter): Why are these two relatively close cities served with two different types?
because they are the right aircraft for the destination- if one 747 goes flop at PHX, you cant send a 747 from LAX without cancelling a flight from LAX- so there is no real reason for serving the same area with similar airplanes.
UALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 582 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3085 times:
I thought it had to do with cargo. PHX generates a significant amount of cargo, which is not only why they get a 747, but why BA even continues almost-daily service to an otherwise heavily tourist destination.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
planesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4088 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3082 times:
Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter): I mean, why aren't both PHX and LAS served with a 747 or both served with a 777?
Why would they need to be? JFK is served mainly by 744s, EWR is served mainly by 777s, it doesn't matter.
Besides, LAS is a 3-class route so has to be operated by 777s (or 767) unless they were to start offering F on the route.
BP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 576 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3003 times:
The Phoenix flight started July 1, 1996 so it has been flying now for 14 years, at first it was a DC10-30 (4) days a week and now a daily 747-400. We even brought the Concorde into Phoenix on a charter on 1996.
Cheers,
BP1
"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
EricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1447 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2918 times:
There are a couple reasons:
1.) Competition - BA's service to PHX is the only non-stop European flight from PHX. LAS has 3 to 4 carriers providing non-stop service to Europe.
2.) Cargo - A big money maker for BA on this route is the cargo. It is my understanding that the belly is full of in both directions on almost every flight.
Considering metropolitan PHX has population of 4.5 million and BA has the only N/S service to Europe from PHX, it is easy to understand how it is able to support a 747 6X per week. If another European airline started service to PHX, we might see BA downgrade to a 777.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6612 posts, RR: 17 Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
Quoting UALFAson (Reply 2): I thought it had to do with cargo. PHX generates a significant amount of cargo, which is not only why they get a 747,
I am not sure that there is any significant difference in the cargo carrying capacity between the 772 and the 744. For example bothj can carry up to a maximum of 32 LD3. However I believe tha cargo hold of a 772 is just a little larger than that of a 744.
My best guess is that there aren two main reasons why BA uses a 744 to PHX.
Having started the service back in the mid 1990s they replaced the DC-10 they initiallly used with a 744. They then split the LON-PHX-=SAN service into two, operating separate 772 flights to both PHX and SAN. Finally they upgraded the PHX 722 to a 6-weekly 744 flight.
So the current service has been built up over 14 years. On the other hand the LAS service is relatively new.
BA have no TATL direct flight competition from PHX while several other airlines operate TATL services out of PHX.
While PHX is primarily a holiday destination there many multinational corporations with significant operations in the greater Phoenix area. They include, for example, AmEx, Honeywell and Intel. The obvious link for local employees of these corporations and their extensive European operations is obviously the BA flight and one can be pretty sure that BA has business contracts with these and other corporations. Indeed I believe that one of the most successful cards AmEx has in the UK is that issued through British Airways.
BY738 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Sep 2000, 1975 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2353 times:
EricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1447 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2252 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 7): While PHX is primarily a holiday destination there many multinational corporations with significant operations in the greater Phoenix area. They include, for example, AmEx, Honeywell and Intel. The obvious link for local employees of these corporations and their extensive European operations is obviously the BA flight and one can be pretty sure that BA has business contracts with these and other corporations. Indeed I believe that one of the most successful cards AmEx has in the UK is that issued through British Airways.
This is inaccurate. It is a large misconception that PHX is PRIMARILY a holiday destination. Only 7.9% of the greater metro PHX workforce is in the Leisure & Hospitality industry (source: Greater Phoenix Economic Council: Oct 2009).
Tourism is an important component to the overall economy and generates a larger percentage of total revenue than some other cities in the United States, but to say PRIMARILY is incorrect. PHX is not Disneyworld, there is no beach, there are no large tourist attractions (other than the Grand Canyon which is 4.5 hours from PHX and closer to LAS), and the summers are bloody hot.
Thanks for your correction. But it does emphasise the point I was making about the importance of Phoenix as a commercial centre.
I agree that the summers are very hot which is why the two touring vcacations I have taken that started in Phoenix were both in the spring - February and March. This timing also tends to coincide with the flowering of trhe desert cacti and lower air fares on the flight from London.
From my own experience I would dispute the suggestion that there is a lack of tourist destinations in southern Arizona. Amongst the places I would highly recommend are the Apache Trail to the east of Phoenix, Oak Creek Canyon and Sedona to the north, Saguaro National Park, Tucson, the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, Tombstone, the Sky Island Scenic Byway and, especially for a-nutters, the Pina Air and Space Museum. And a short stay at one of the Scotsdale resort hotels should also be on visitors' itineraries. Soutrhern Arizona may not be Disneyworld but it is my view that it is none the worse for that.
Many of the above plus much more is covered in the 'Arizona Highways' magazine. Here is a link to its web site:
EricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1447 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1886 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 11): From my own experience I would dispute the suggestion that there is a lack of tourist destinations in southern Arizona. Amongst the places I would highly recommend are the Apache Trail to the east of Phoenix, Oak Creek Canyon and Sedona to the north, Saguaro National Park, Tucson, the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, Tombstone, the Sky Island Scenic Byway and, especially for a-nutters, the Pina Air and Space Museum. And a short stay at one of the Scotsdale resort hotels should also be on visitors' itineraries. Soutrhern Arizona may not be Disneyworld but it is my view that it is none the worse for that.
You are correct. There are more tourist attractions in Arizona than I mentioned. In addition to the items you mentioned, the metro PHX area also brings in thousands of people each year for MLB Spring Training games, the Fiesta Bowl, and Phoenix Open (FBR Open or whatever it is called now) . In addition, I also forgot to mention the nice desert golf courses that surround the valley.
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