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Turkish 777 And Citation Get Close Over London  
User currently offlinenema From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 707 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Just read this report, couldn't see another thread on here.


What surprises me from reading this article is where it states from the report that... "when the aircraft came close, the Turkish flight crew had not "followed the commands" of three on-board collision-avoidance warnings".


Is that because they could see the Citation ? thus you can ignore the warnings.


Here is the BBC News headline today..


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496


There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

Why wouldn't the TK crew follow the TCAS command? Sounds like multiple human errors coincided here.

User currently offlinenema From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Why wouldn't the TK crew follow the TCAS command? Sounds like multiple human errors coincided here.



Certainly agree there was apparent human error with the Control Tower not picking up on getting the wrong altitude acknowledgement, But regarding the flight crew and their choice to ignore the TCAS due to their visual contact with the other aircraft.. is it normal to choose not to act on the systems collision avoidance commands if you have visual?



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3074 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Dangerous! I've watched the Heathrow inbounds at 4000ft over the City departures at 3000 ft many times. Indeed there was an Air Canada flight did this in the same place recently as well. The truth is that London City is in a pretty bad place as far as the Heathrow inbounds are concerned. If these two had hit the death toll would have been enormous on the ground as well, pretty much over the Olympic site. It's not as if this is the first time. I can't believe the Citation didn't have TCAS. I am genuinely annoyed at this, as last week flying into Heathrow I watched a Citation zoom beneath us at what I assume was the correct level in that exact area.

User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 3):
I can't believe the Citation didn't have TCAS.

Same here, I assumed TCAS was mandatory now on all jet aircraft or am I wrong?



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlinenema From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 4):
Same here, I assumed TCAS was mandatory now on all jet aircraft or am I wrong?

As i understand it and from what ive read today, under international aviation safety rules all jets weighing more than 5.7 tonnes must have TCAS. Very Light Jets (VLJs) typically weigh less than 4 tonnes and are therefore exempt.

I find this odd however, what has weight got to do with anything in this case of safety?..



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2923 times:

I don't believe it, the Daily Mail has managed to publish a story without the wrong pictures and hyping it to be more than it was.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-just-4-000ft-London.html?ITO=1490

Ahhh, this is the "Mail Online", perhaps they are different.  



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinenema From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 3):
I've watched the Heathrow inbounds at 4000ft over the City departures at 3000 ft many times

I found it odd that only last week, i was returning from Palma (PMI) to East Mids (EMA) and we started our decent over the English channel, then oddly zig zagged across London with quite a reduction in speed, clearly seeing the O2 Staduim just to our right, we then banked left before a final bank right to head Northbound. Difficult to say accurately but I guess we were still in the 20k feet zone at that point, but why we needed the speed reduction so much and, why we didnt simply go West of London and stay well clear beats me.



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ondon-city-procedure-revision.html
I guess this wasn't the first time and now the new rules should help.


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