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OXR Is Courting Upstart CalPac  
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Its seems Ventura County and Oxnard is attempting to get upstart California Pacific to add their city to their Route Map. They are offering incentives etc (not outside being normal)
Here is the info...

http://portal.countyofventura.org/po...ary/OXR%20California%20Pacific.pdf

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3420 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Looks like SFO & LAS are their best shot for service.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Quite an effort being made by the folks at OXR but since there is no mention or stat's showing any connection between CLD and OXR (and I'm sure that's because there aren't any!) it appears to me that they are just attempting to get the still-not-flying carrier to move their base op's from CLD to OXR. And that's not going to happen; CPAir is about connecting CLD with large markets that it can support.

I would say this is a presentation being put out there to get someone to consider starting an operation similar to CPAir's but, of course, based at OXR. And good luck to them.

bb


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5068 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

IF the concept takes off, there are several Cali airports which might be courting CPA; MRY, SCK, SBA, PMD too add to OXR.

Of course that's a BIG IF. Personally, I hope it succeeds as a sort of 21st century PSA. Though the odds are stacked against it.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
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Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 3):
IF the concept takes off, there are several Cali airports which might be courting CPA; MRY, SCK, SBA, PMD too add to OXR.

I'm surprised SBA isn't in there already. They would throw money at anyone who would restart SBA-SJC.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Surprisingly OXR is capable of serving CalPac's aircraft, but that'd be an interesting connection. On the upside, it'd be a short cheap flight enroute one of the busier locations.


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5068 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):


I'm surprised SBA isn't in there already. They would throw money at anyone who would restart SBA-SJC.

Once it gets airborne and survives a quarter or three, you'll probably see just that. IMHO I think SJC and SMF can support some intrastate service to smaller SoCal markets.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25141 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Actually what OXR is really hopping for is to apply this year and be awarded a small community air grant by 2011 and turn around and lure some one like Horizon Air for a Bay Area flight. QX has already said they would seriously consider the airport if there were funding guarantees for a flight.

For CP Air, I say no chance at all really. There is no great air service need to San Diego area anyhow (people drive), and CP Air seems pretty focused on making Carlsbad their base to start with.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1522 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Actually, OXR has made a number of similar presentations - including Branson Air Express - in hopes of attracting a replacement to fill void left by UAX.

Initially, OXR was working with DL(OO) for SLC service. DL's drawdown of 50 seat flying squelched the early collaborative efforts between OXR and DL(OO). Subsequently, OXR shifted its attention to QX. It's rumored that OXR will submit a proposal for a 2011 SCASD grant, with QX as a sponsor, for OXR-SJC service.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

Finally, with the last couple of posts here, people seem to get it. For the earlier posts, I don't understand the thinking.

CPAir is a startup based at Carlsbad airport in northern San Diego county for the purpose of connecting that area with major destinations in the southwest region of the US. Why are posters talking about how OXR can handle, or why they would want, CPAir there? The only thing CPAir would have to do with OXR is a CLD-OXR flight and there's no market there so they won't. Period.

Maybe in 5 or 6 years, if and when CPAir is a large, multi-hub carrier, they could possibly think about OXR as another focus of op's, but now, when they aren't even flying out of CLD? Nope.

bb


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2298 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
For CP Air, I say no chance at all really. There is no great air service need to San Diego area anyhow (people drive), and CP Air seems pretty focused on making Carlsbad their base to start with.


That may be, but it has never stopped small, under-nourished airports dreaming of more service, even if they have to pay for it.

And sometimes it does work.

It's like the old Hollywood dream that a supermarket checkout person can become a major star - the chances are beyond slender, but every once in a blue moon a Michelle Pfeiffer happens and keeps the dream alive.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25141 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

The problem Oxnard has with trying to attract and support air service - geography ---

It sits 45 miles from SBA, 55miles from BUR and 65 miles from LAX. Way too easy for people to hop in their cars to get to airports that offer significant more options in routes, airlines and fares.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2246 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
The problem Oxnard has with trying to attract and support air service - geography ---

That may be true, but again - what can I say? I don't think logic is the propelling imperative here.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

Surprisingly OXR is capable of serving CalPac's aircraft, but that'd be an interesting connection. On the upside, it'd be a short cheap flight enroute one of the busier locations.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
CPAir is a startup based at Carlsbad airport in northern San Diego county for the purpose of connecting that area with major destinations in the southwest region of the US. Why are posters talking about how OXR can handle, or why they would want, CPAir there? The only thing CPAir would have to do with OXR is a CLD-OXR flight and there's no market there so they won't. Period.

But I think you're missing the point.. OXR wants a carrier to replace OO more than even SBD wants ANYTHING with wings..



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2456 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2148 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
The only thing CPAir would have to do with OXR is a CLD-OXR flight and there's no market there so they won't. Period.

Who says that? I bet if they were offered enough cash, they would place 3 jets at OXR (as per OXR's proposed sched in OPs link).

Heck, if they were given enough, they could just forget CLD and do same thing out of OXR.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 14):
Who says that? I bet if they were offered enough cash, they would place 3 jets at OXR (as per OXR's proposed sched in OPs link).
Heck, if they were given enough, they could just forget CLD and do same thing out of OXR

Do some background reading on CPAir! And to help, here's the link to their website: http://www.flycpair.com

Ted Vallas is the money behind this endeavor. Ted Vallas lives and breathes in Carlsbad and is not interested in anything in Oxnard. That's my point. Some of you seem to think CPAir is some unknown organization that is looking for a place to start an airline. Read about his history (including his airline service) in San Diego county.

IF CPAir is successful (at CLD) some people feel that Lindbergh Field would be his next target airport. Oxnard just doesn't seem to come up in any discussions involving Mr. Vallas, nor does anywhere else...

bb


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
Quite an effort being made by the folks at OXR but since there is no mention or stat's showing any connection between CLD and OXR (and I'm sure that's because there aren't any!) it appears to me that they are just attempting to get the still-not-flying carrier to move their base op's from CLD to OXR. And that's not going to happen; CPAir is about connecting CLD with large markets that it can support.

I don't think anyone is actually thinking that CLD-OXR would work, or that OXR is trying to steal CPAir from CLD.

The idea is that if successful, CPAir will run out of room and opportunities rather quickly at a small airport like CLD and would likely be looking for another airport to duplicate their success. OXR could be just that opportunity as a second base for the airline. OXR-SJC, OXR-LAS, OXR-SMF, OXR-PHX. No need for CLD-OXR as they would link the two bases through the outstations.

To me it looks like OXR management is looking down the road at what CPAir's next move will be if the initial routes are successful, and hoping to position themselves to be a part of those plans.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
IF CPAir is successful (at CLD) some people feel that Lindbergh Field would be his next target airport.

This would be a very bad idea. The best part of the CPAir business plan is that they avoid direct competition with Southwest and others by operating out of CLD. They lose that advantage and end up in a damaging fare war if they try to start up SAN too soon.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 16):
The idea is that if successful, CPAir will run out of room and opportunities rather quickly at a small airport like CLD and would likely be looking for another airport to duplicate their success. OXR could be just that opportunity as a second base for the airline. OXR-SJC, OXR-LAS, OXR-SMF, OXR-PHX. No need for CLD-OXR as they would link the two bases through the outstations


This is certainly a possible explanation for the OXR overture to CPAir as I already mentioned in my reply #9. However, if that is the reason, I really think it a bit early since the airline group is probably, at minimum, at least several months away from getting their first revenue flight off the ground. As I said earlier, I don't see CPAir ready for consideration of another "hub" for many years.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 16):
This would be a very bad idea. The best part of the CPAir business plan is that they avoid direct competition with Southwest and others by operating out of CLD. They lose that advantage and end up in a damaging fare war if they try to start up SAN too soon.


I didn't say that CPAir starting at Lindbergh was a good idea or an imminent action but mention of Mr. Vallas trying to recreate PSA down the 5 has been heard. And again, time references have not been mentioned but I'm sure any such idea by the CPAir group would also be years away...

I guess I'm just saying that this whole thread just seems to me to be years early. Let's first of all see IF CPAir gets off the ground (anywhere!), give it a couple of years to survive, be profitable, and even expand a bit (from CLD), THEN we can start realistically thinking: what next?

bb


User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2040 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

Do you think F9 would look at the numbers and drop them a line and cut a deal? After all they do have EMB 170"s.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
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Quoting sunking737 (Reply 18):
Do you think F9 would look at the numbers and drop them a line and cut a deal? After all they do have EMB 170"s.

Cut a deal with whom?

I very much doubt you would see Frontier at OXR, no matter how much money they offer. Well, if they offered gazillions, maybe.

I would be pretty sure that SBA has talked to Frontier about SBA-SJC because they are talking to any airline that will listen. I don't think it is likely, unless they were offered armor plated, gild edged guarantees. If they still had - or intended to have - the Q400's, maybe they might have been more sympathetic.

California Pacific? I guess it is not impossible, if the potential route structure were only slightly different. Frontier is very conscious that north/south west coast is a gap in their route map, but they've said they'd rather do it by code share.

But I think the route structure would need to be slightly different - I don't see what CLD offers Frontier - and I'm surely not holding my breath.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2456 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1836 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
Do some background reading on CPAir! And to help, here's the link to their website: http://www.flycpair.com

I did, and already know what CalPac plans are.
You stated all CP would do it CRQ-OXR. And nowhere is that stated or inferred. Not by CP and not by OXR. So common sense ( and OXR proposed schedule for CP) would tell anyone that no one is hoping for or planning flights from CRQ-OXR.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1746 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 20):
So common sense ( and OXR proposed schedule for CP) would tell anyone that no one is hoping for or planning flights from CRQ-OXR.

Unless it continued on to SFO or perhaps SLC or LAS. That'd perk up some ears.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 21):
Unless it continued on to SFO or perhaps SLC or LAS. That'd perk up some ears.



They seem to think there is demand from OXR to the Pacific Northwest so I could see CLD-OXR-PDX and CLD-OXR-SEA sense the runway at CLD could never accommodate a non-stop that far north anyway.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 22):
They seem to think there is demand from OXR to the Pacific Northwest so I could see CLD-OXR-PDX and CLD-OXR-SEA sense the runway at CLD could never accommodate a non-stop that far north anyway.

It's certainly possible.. probable? I don't know. I've always been interested in the marketability of cities like Stockton and Bellingham, yet the only airline to give those types of destinations a crack has been Allegiant.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
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