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WN: Non-stop Route With Lowest Daily O+D Traffic?  
User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Posted (4 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9640 times:

I just came across BNA-BHM that WN serves 12 weekly. Yet in Q1 of this year, per the Consumer Airfare Report (2010 Q1 is the latest available), it carried an average of just 21 people (rounded and including WN's 90.73% market share in that quarter) each way each day. What of connecting traffic, you ask? Well, given BNA is a crucial hub of WN, they presumably carry considerable connecting traffic. So, I ask: do any other non-stop route that WN operates generate fewer O+D passengers than BNA-BHM? While it no longer operates, 25 people on average each way each day flew MAF-ELP (based on 2007 Q3 data).

[Edited 2010-09-10 05:03:28]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9470 times:
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Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
25 people on average each way each day flew MAF-ELP (based on 2007 Q3 data).

Okay, in this case El Paso and Midland/Odessa have economic importance for different reasons, and besides, the straight-line distance between the two can easily be done by car.

Today there isn't even much connecting air traffic between the two airports, so perhaps WN having a nonstop between the two was a mistake in the first place.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7174 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9421 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
So, I ask: do any other non-stop route that WN operates generate fewer O+D passengers than BNA-BHM? While it no longer operates, 25 people on average each way each day flew MAF-ELP (based on 2007 Q3 data).

I'm too lazy to look, but I bet DEN-AMA is lower. They are just flying it to offer DEN-AMA-DAL service.


User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9370 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
I'm too lazy to look, but I bet DEN-AMA is lower. They are just flying it to offer DEN-AMA-DAL service.

I'll ignore the "I'm too lazy to look" bit. :P

Actually, traffic on AMA-DEN in 2010 Q1 was 85 PDEW (rounded, with WN having a 99.48% MS). So, much better O+D-wise than BNA-BHM, but, yes, I imagine a good number remain aboard.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinessides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 9099 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
While it no longer operates, 25 people on average each way each day flew MAF-ELP (based on 2007 Q3 data).

I always hold a special place for this now-defunct route. MAF-ELP was my first-ever commercial flight, way back in the mid-80s. I remember that our flight left at 8:55am, but arrived at 8:50am. That was so, so hard for me to figure out.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineBNAtraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 410 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8937 times:
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BNA-BHM serves largely as a way to get pax BNA-BHM-DAL and vv.

User currently offlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8857 times:

I guess when the Wright Amendment restrictions are removed at DAL, BNA - BHM nonstop will be removed from the network.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8628 times:

MCO-RSW (high 20s PDEW) is another pretty low one. There are also quite a few routes between 50 and 100 PDEW (TPA-JAX, BWI-LGA, TPA-PBI, LIT-STL). WN only has about 1/3 of the BWI-NYC market, though, so they are only carrying 20 something local PDEW on that route too.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7174 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8519 times:

Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 5):
BNA-BHM serves largely as a way to get pax BNA-BHM-DAL and vv.
Quoting cslusarc (Reply 6):
I guess when the Wright Amendment restrictions are removed at DAL, BNA - BHM nonstop will be removed from the network.

Although, this route pre-dates the ability to fly BNA-BHM-DAL. It used to be routed BNA-BHM-MSY. I don't doubt it will go away, though.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
I'll ignore the "I'm too lazy to look" bit. :P

Thanks, I guess...


User currently offlinemtaabq From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8176 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
PDEW

Excuse my ignorance -- would someone please explain what PDEW is? That's a new one for me. Thanks in advance.

Interesting thread. Fascinating report.

Of course, if I may be permitted, the average number of passengers carried per day really doesn't reflect a particular route's profitability. Some flights are gonna go out full; others not so much. I had never flown MDW-MCI (or reverse!) when the flights weren't completely full until June '09 when I took the 1st flight on a Monday morning (think 6:30 AM) from MDW to MCI and there were only -- no lie -- 16 passengers. Or a Saturday night flight ELP to ABQ with only 25 passengers. (Of course, WN has been scaling back between ELP and ABQ.) On the flip side, every flight I took ABQ to AMA (which is no longer offered by WN) was completely full but usually over half the pax were continuing to or connecting to DAL. (I found the same to be true on the reverse.) Yes -- connecting in AMA to DAL from ABQ. I had also flown ABQ-DAL via MAF and found the same to be true -- nearly half the pax were connecting to DAL via MAF. (MAF used to have a bartender who made the best bloody mary -- ~sigh~ - memories.)

I'm sorry, what was the topic again? LOL.

I love this website -- everyone here is a great resource.

Everyone, make it a great weekend!

Mike
mtaabq


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 7934 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Although, this route pre-dates the ability to fly BNA-BHM-DAL. It used to be routed BNA-BHM-MSY.

Yes, although before 9/11 it made a lot more sense for local passengers than it does now.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

Quoting mtaabq (Reply 9):
PDEW

Passengers Daily Each Way.

Quoting mtaabq (Reply 9):
if I may be permitted, the average number of passengers carried per day really doesn't reflect a particular route's profitability.

You are, of course, absolutely right: as Holloway's Straight and Level: Practical Airline Economics book states (on p.558), 'a relatively high ALF does not guarantee operating profits, and neither does a low ALF guarantee operating losses.' This book, which is my favourite airline economics textbook (it's amazingly useful, and I'd wholeheartedly recommend it), has about 7 pages on achieved load factors (ALF) and break-even load factors (BELF).

Anyway, who mentioned profitability? I certainly did not, because I am aware of what elements determine operating performance. Instead, I was simply curious, having look at the BNA-BHM data, about whether any other non-stop WN routes had a lower daily O+D.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7281 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
BWI-LGA,

I don't think anyone flying that route has a full plane. I've done it in USAir Express Q200s in order to connect to local airports in NY and New England -- plus I get Star Alliance miles for the trip. And the Express part of USAir's terminal at LGA is pretty busy.

Since WN already has a hub at BWI, there's little reason to use *them* to fly to LGA. Their BWI-SAN route is much more important -- at least to me and the Navy


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6548 times:

My vote goes for IGM-LAS. I was the only passenger on that route and was told it averages 6 pax daily on a B1900D.

KH



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineFlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
My vote goes for IGM-LAS. I was the only passenger on that route and was told it averages 6 pax daily on a B1900D.

Since when has WN flown to IGM let alone B1900s ??? LOL



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineflyawa From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

How bout their new service at ECP?


Better than most, not as good as some.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

How much O&D is on BHM-SDF? Apparently there's something there I'm not catching but this route always seemed strange to me.

User currently offlineATLgaUSA From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

Delta flew BHM-SDF nonstop before Southwest. I've flown the flight a couple of times and each time the majority of the passengers boarded in BHM and got off in Louisville.

User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1374 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Although, this route pre-dates the ability to fly BNA-BHM-DAL. It used to be routed BNA-BHM-MSY. I don't doubt it will go away, though.

No question, while the O&D for this route may be low BNA serves as a major connecting point for BHM throughout the rest of the WN network.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
How much O&D is on BHM-SDF?

50 PDEW, and WN carries about 46 of them.

Quoting flyawa (Reply 16):
How bout their new service at ECP?

Without data aside from the data generated with sky high fares at PFN, it's hard to say.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3183 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

There must be a few routes where Southwest have a lot of connecting passengers, and I am sure that the restrictions on the Wright Amendment have been eased.

I was on the Southwest flight DAL-STL-MDW in June where 46 passengers stayed onboard which I thought was quite a lot.



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 20):
I was on the Southwest flight DAL-STL-MDW in June where 46 passengers stayed onboard which I thought was quite a lot.

Yes, I have even had (multiple times) 80+ thru pax on various routes. The last one that sticks out in my head was something through SLC and on to MDW.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Although, this route pre-dates the ability to fly BNA-BHM-DAL. It used to be routed BNA-BHM-MSY.

Yes, although before 9/11 it made a lot more sense for local passengers than it does now.

Indeed. Back in the day (late 80s/early 90s), this route was essentially how I maintained a long distance relationship with my girlfriend/fiancee/future wife. At $19 for walk up fares each way, you couldn't beat it.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
I'm too lazy to look, but I bet DEN-AMA is lower. They are just flying it to offer DEN-AMA-DAL service.

Yeah, I flew DEN-AMA back in January. There were literally 15 people on board. I'm pretty sure 14 of those 15 were continuing onto Dallas



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinetxagkuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quote:
Yeah, I flew DEN-AMA back in January. There were literally 15 people on board. I'm pretty sure 14 of those 15 were continuing onto Dallas

My last four DEN-AMA-DAL trips: 2 have been completely full, 1 with 135 and one with 130. The thru count has ranged from 54 to 76.


User currently offlineunmlobo From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (4 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 20):
I was on the Southwest flight DAL-STL-MDW in June where 46 passengers stayed onboard which I thought was quite a lot.

That's nothing...on my flight from MCO-RDU on 8/28 the flight was continuing on to PHL and there were 101 thrus!



The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of Southwest Airlines its Directors or its Employees
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