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OAG Changes 9/17/2010:1X/AS/CO/DL/FL/K5/LH/UA/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10912 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route

1X
The following routes are suspended as of November. I assume this is seasonal.

BKG-AUS/BNA/DSM/GPT/HOU/IND/MDW/SHV

AM
DEN-MEX 2/WK>3/WK JAN-
ORD-DGO 0>1/WK JAN-

AS
LAX-LAP 4/WK>5/WK NOV-
LAX-LTO 5/WK>1 NOV-
LAX-SJC 4>3 NOV-
SEA-YKM 4>3 MAR-
SFO-PDX 4>5 MAR-
SJC-SJD 0>3/WK DEC-

CO
CLE-LWB 2>2/WK OCT-
EWR-YTM 0>4/WK DEC-MAR
FLL-GGT 4>2 NOV-

EWR-FLL 8>9 MAR-
EWR-MCO 10>11 MAR-
EWR-PBI 7>8 MAR-
EWR-RSW 5>6 MAR-
Seasonal or WN...

DL
ATL-ACA 0>1/WK FEB-
ATL-BNA 12>10 JAN-FEB
ATL-CHA 10>11 JAN-
ATL-CHS 11>10 DEC-FEB
ATL-CLE 6>7 JAN-
ATL-CPH 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)
ATL-EWN 3>2 DEC-FEB
ATL-GSO 11>10 DEC-FEB
ATL-GYE 2/WK>1/WK JAN-
ATL-MGM 8>7 JAN-FEB
ATL-MLI 5>4 JAN-FEB
ATL-MOB 9>8 JAN-FEB
ATL-OAK 5/WK>0 NOV-
ATL-OKC 6>5 JAN-FEB
ATL-PRG 5/WK>0 MAR- (probly delayed)
ATL-RDU 12>11 DEC-FEB
ATL-SAN 6>5 DEC-FEB
ATL-SAV 12>10 DEC-FEB
ATL-SGF 4>3 DEC-FEB
ATL-TLH 9>10 JAN-
CVG-LAX 19/WK>17/WK DEC-FEB
DTW-BHM 4>3 DEC-FEB
DTW-BMI 3>2 DEC-FEB
DTW-BWI 6>5 DEC-FEB
DTW-CAK 4>3 JAN-
DTW-LEX 5>4 DEC-
DTW-MDT 4>3 DEC-FEB
DTW-MYR 1>0 DEC-FEB
DTW-PDX 1>0 DEC-FEB
DTW-RST 2>1 DEC-FEB
DTW-SAN 2>1 DEC-FEB
DTW-SAV 2>1 DEC-FEB
DTW-TVS 6>4 DEC-
JFK-BUD 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)
JFK-ZRH 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)
MEM-FLL 2>1 JAN-FEB
MEM-SGF 3>2 JAN-FEB
MEM-TPA 3>2 DEC-
MSP-ABQ 2>1 JAN-FEB
MSP-ATW 5>4 DEC-FEB
MSP-BIL 2>3 JAN-
MSP-BJI 3>2 JAN-FEB
MSP-BZN 2>3 JAN-
MSP-COS 2>1 DEC-FEB
MSP-DCA 7>6 JAN-FEB
MSP-DLH 7>6 JAN-FEB
MSP-FSD 8>7 DEC-FEB
MSP-IAD 4>3 DEC-FEB
MSP-ICT 4>3 NOV-FEB
MSP-LAX 7>6 DEC-FEB
MSP-MSO 2>1 JAN-FEB
MSP-OKC 3>2 JAN-FEB
MSP-RHI 3>2 JAN-FEB
MSP-SEA 7>6 JAN-FEB
MSP-XNA 3>2 JAN-
SLC-BIL 5>4 JAN-
SLC-BZN 5>4 JAN-
SLC-GJT 4>3 DEC-FEB
SLC-IDA 6>5 DEC-FEB
SLC-PSC 5>4 DEC-FEB
SLC-PSP 2>3 JAN-
SLC-TUS 4>3 NOV-

FL
ATL-DTW 4>3 JAN-
ATL-MDW 7>6 NOV-
ATL-MKE 5>4 JAN-
ATL-PHL 5>4 JAN-

K5
JNU-GST 0>2 OCT-NOV
JNU-HNH 0>5 OCT-NOV
JNU-HNS 0>3 OCT-NOV
JNU-SGY 0>4/WK OCT-NOV
JNU-EXI 0>1/WK OCT-NOV
HRO-MCI 0>2 JAN-
HRO-MEM 3>2 JAN-
PDX-AST 3>0 JAN-
PDX-BFI 6>0 JAN-
PDX-ONP 2>0 JAN-
PDX-PDT 3>0 JAN-
SGY-HNS 0>4 OCT-NOV
SLC-MCI 0>3 JAN-

LA
LAX-SCL 0>2/WK DEC-FEB

LH
EWR-FRA 1>2 MAR- (Now continuous)

UA
DEN-ASE 3>2 DEC-FEB
DEN-CMH 3>2 DEC-FEB
DEN-DRO 7>8 DEC-FEB
DEN-IAD 9>8 DEC-FEB
DEN-LAX 8>9 DEC-
DEN-RAP 7>6 DEC-FEB
DEN-TUS 5>6 DEC-
DEN-YWG 4>3 JAN-FEB
LAX-KOA 2>9/WK JAN-FEB
LAX-LIH 2>9/WK JAN-FEB
LAX-PHX 4>5 FEB- (DL response)
LAX-SLC 2>3 JAN-FEB
SFO-ACV 7>6 JAN-FEB
SFO-DFW 1>2 JAN-
SFO-HNL 3>4 JAN-
SFO-MOD 5>4 JAN-
SFO-PSP 3>4 DEC-
SFO-TUS 1>2 DEC-

US
PDX-PHL 1>0 DEC-
PHL-SMF 1>0 DEC-

VB
LAS-HMO 2/WK>0 OCT-




UP
Did not reinstate their flights deleted last week. In fact, they tweaked the end dates on some of them indicating it may be correct.

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10922 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UP
Did not reinstate their flights deleted last week. In fact, they tweaked the end dates on some of them indicating it may be correct.

It's also possible they aren't going to sell tickets via OAG/GDS any more. Did they announce anything this week?


User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10726 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UP
Did not reinstate their flights deleted last week. In fact, they tweaked the end dates on some of them indicating it may be correct.

The flights seem to be open for bookings on their web-site...


User currently offlinedldtw1962 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10707 times:

DTW-PDX No service durning the winter. That is new. I hope this is only seasonal.

Chuck


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7708 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10674 times:

Nothing terribly interesting in regards to DL schedule changes this week.

Everything there looks mostly to be scheduled seasonal reductions. Many of which have happened in previous years. DL now working on its winter schedule, tweaking frequencies to align capacity with projected demand.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7708 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10656 times:

Quoting dldtw1962 (Reply 3):
DTW-PDX No service durning the winter. That is new. I hope this is only seasonal.

No its not. DTW-PDX has been seasonal for many years now. It usually does not operate Jan-April.


User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10415 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-FLL 8>9 MAR-
EWR-MCO 10>11 MAR-
EWR-PBI 7>8 MAR-
EWR-RSW 5>6 MAR-
Seasonal or WN...

It could be WN, or B6 entering EWR-BOS.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineOOSLC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10293 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
SLC-MCI 0>3 JAN-

K5 is really gonna fly SLC-MCI? Hmm...kinda a long flight for a PC-12 eh?


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10294 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
Nothing terribly interesting in regards to DL schedule changes this week.

Has ATL-OAK ended in the Winter in recent years? I don't remember. It doesn't appear to have a resumption date.

Quoting dldtw1962 (Reply 3):
DTW-PDX No service durning the winter. That is new. I hope this is only seasonal.

Chuck
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
It usually does not operate Jan-April.

I thought they had been ending it in October or November the last couple of years. This is actually still a longer season isn't it?

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 6):
It could be WN, or B6 entering EWR-BOS.

B6 was already flying to Florida, but I guess it could be backhanded. More likely either seasonal or related to WN. We'll have to wait and see if these flights stick after March.

Quoting beryllium (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UP
Did not reinstate their flights deleted last week. In fact, they tweaked the end dates on some of them indicating it may be correct.

The flights seem to be open for bookings on their web-site...

Just checked Expedia and they are, in fact, gone after the end date. So either they must be pulling an Independence Air and only selling their seats through select channels going forward or they are incredibly inept. Seems like an odd move for them.


User currently offlineclemsonaj From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10296 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
No its not. DTW-PDX has been seasonal for many years now. It usually does not operate Jan-April.

My PDX-DTW routing in November (11/11) has been cancelled. Looks like they might be ending it a bit earlier?


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10236 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BKG-AUS/BNA/DSM/GPT/HOU/IND/MDW/SHV

Looks like the whole airline shuts down in early December. I presume it is a seasonal deal. They had said they were considering a seasonal operation. The AirTran service is all year, right? Does Frontier continue as well?


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
K5
JNU-GST 0>2 OCT-NOV
JNU-HNH 0>5 OCT-NOV
JNU-HNS 0>3 OCT-NOV
JNU-SGY 0>4/WK OCT-NOV
JNU-EXI 0>1/WK OCT-NOV
HRO-MCI 0>2 JAN-
HRO-MEM 3>2 JAN-
PDX-AST 3>0 JAN-
PDX-BFI 6>0 JAN-
PDX-ONP 2>0 JAN-
PDX-PDT 3>0 JAN-
SGY-HNS 0>4 OCT-NOV
SLC-MCI 0>3 JAN-

These all have to be off. I know you didn't do anything wrong enrilia. But they're not dropping some of these routes. I know they were supposed to be moving onto a GDS soon. Would that be causing some of these weird "changes?"


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6843 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-FLL 8>9 MAR-
EWR-MCO 10>11 MAR-
EWR-PBI 7>8 MAR-
EWR-RSW 5>6 MAR-
Seasonal or WN...

Geez I'll say it's a response...



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9926 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-YTM 0>4/WK DEC-MAR

Nice to see that Mont Tremblant is back for another (fifth?) year.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
EWR-FLL 8>9 MAR-
EWR-MCO 10>11 MAR-
EWR-PBI 7>8 MAR-
EWR-RSW 5>6 MAR-
Seasonal or WN...
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 12):
Geez I'll say it's a response...

That's CO's typical EWR-Florida schedules for Christmas and Easter break, going back to the '80s. Speaking as someone who has been flying EWR-Florida on CO since '89 this is their usual frequency increase, I remember 10 daily A300s EWR-MCO.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2982 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9899 times:

Thanks as always for all the work you put in on this week after week...

Quoting OOSLC (Reply 7):
K5 is really gonna fly SLC-MCI? Hmm...kinda a long flight for a PC-12 eh?

Almost certain a (rare) typo...that's Salina (SLN) to Kansas City. They've been flying SLN-MCI for some time

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
K5
PDX-AST 3>0 JAN-
PDX-BFI 6>0 JAN-
PDX-ONP 2>0 JAN-
PDX-PDT 3>0 JAN-

Is K5 giving up the ghost on their PDX operation, or is this a technical transfer to a sister carrier like Wings of Alaska? Pendleton is EAS service and they can't easily just pull up stakes there without a replacement...or if they do, they might solidly damage their ability to win addition EAS markets on which they continue to bid.

The Seaport website doesn't allow me to book PDX-BFI in January, but will let me book SLN-MCI for the same dates. If this means the Portland service (including the shuttle to Seattle Boeing) is kaput that's really too bad. I really like the idea that small aircraft point-to-point flying could be profitable in select markets, and Portland-Seattle BFI seemed like a niche. That's especially true considering that the no-TSA status means a reliably speedy pass through the airport.

UPDATE: Best I can tell, SeaPort received a good subsidy for the Newport and Astoria service starting in early 2009, and it ends in early 2011. That explains those two routes. PDX-BFI predates this subsidized service, I believe, and Pendleton is regular EAS which continues on. But it appears to all be ending.

[Edited 2010-09-14 13:03:59]

User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1734 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9850 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
I thought they had been ending it in October or November the last couple of years.
Quoting clemsonaj (Reply 9):
My PDX-DTW routing in November (11/11) has been cancelled. Looks like they might be ending it a bit earlier?

You're both correct on these points. Delta just recently (in the last few days) updated their online schedule to reflect PDX-DTW ending 10/31, so my guess is the reduction of service NOV- hasn't made it into OAG for this week's update. I imagine we can look for the full extent of that change to appear in enilria's thread next week.

Thanks as always for the updates, enilria!


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7708 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9697 times:

They've changed the start/end dates of DTW-PDX depending on the year. Some years it has lasted as long as December holidays, other years it has ended in November. Some years it starts as late as May other years earlier.
DTW-PDX hasn't been year-round since at least 2003.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9684 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Has ATL-OAK ended in the Winter in recent years? I don't remember. It doesn't appear to have a resumption date.

It was summer seasonal last year, though the years before it was year-round.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9624 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 11):
These all have to be off. I know you didn't do anything wrong enrilia. But they're not dropping some of these routes. I know they were supposed to be moving onto a GDS soon. Would that be causing some of these weird "changes?"
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 14):
UPDATE: Best I can tell, SeaPort received a good subsidy for the Newport and Astoria service starting in early 2009, and it ends in early 2011. That explains those two routes. PDX-BFI predates this subsidized service, I believe, and Pendleton is regular EAS which continues on. But it appears to all be ending.

A system change really shouldn't impact it since they should be sending their schedules to Sabre electronically apart from anything going on with their systems, but if they are undertaking such a major IT related change it could be a good time to screw up your Sabre submission.

Then again, maybe it's correct.
There was a lot of debate about Bahamasair last week and sure enough their schedules are no longer selling on Expedia, etc. Maybe all the smart people are on vacation and the idiots are submitting the schedules.  
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 14):
Thanks as always for all the work you put in on this week after week...

 
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 14):
Almost certain a (rare) typo...that's Salina (SLN) to Kansas City. They've been flying SLN-MCI for some time
Quoting OOSLC (Reply 7):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
SLC-MCI 0>3 JAN-
K5 is really gonna fly SLC-MCI? Hmm...kinda a long flight for a PC-12 eh?

Yes, my mistake.
SLN-MCI 0>3 JAN-
My fingers get used to typing the more common codes.  
Quoting steex (Reply 15):
Thanks as always for the updates, enilria!

 
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
It was summer seasonal last year, though the years before it was year-round.

That makes sense. It's hard to imagine any domestic route to Atlanta really needing to be seasonal with all those connection options.


User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9508 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
A system change really shouldn't impact it since they should be sending their schedules to Sabre electronically apart from anything going on with their systems, but if they are undertaking such a major IT related change it could be a good time to screw up your Sabre submission.

K5 and 1X have been having troubles keeping their GDS files/scheds. in order. On Branson Air Express, Worldpspan shows skeds ending end of OCT but on their website, mid DEC is the end. they will probably do a dynamic sched. change to update the GDS until the loads go in. K5 has dropped in and out of Wspan , so I wouldnt get too concerned about losing their PDX operation!


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9508 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

ATL-CPH 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)

moved to june start

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-OAK 5/WK>0 NOV-

seasonal

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

ATL-PRG 5/WK>0 MAR- (probly delayed)

moved to june start

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

JFK-BUD 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)
JFK-ZRH 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)

june start

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):

Has ATL-OAK ended in the Winter in recent years? I don't remember. It doesn't appear to have a resumption date.

it did last year, they cut it then it came back this summer.....AFAIK last years cut wasn't "seasonal" like it is this year



yep.
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4954 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9375 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

ATL-CPH 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)

moved to june start
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

ATL-PRG 5/WK>0 MAR- (probly delayed)

moved to june start
Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

JFK-BUD 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)
JFK-ZRH 1>0 MAR- (probly delayed)

june start

There will probably be adjustments again - right now looks like they have made a blanket move of all seasonal transatlantic routes to a June 1 start (including JFK-VLC, JFK-PSA, JFK-KBP,JFK-AGP - all not listed here). Given that Memorial Day will be on May 30, 2011, my bet is that many of these will probably restart around May 26 or 27, if not earlier.


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2982 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9059 times:

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 19):
K5 has dropped in and out of Wspan , so I wouldnt get too concerned about losing their PDX operation!

Any idea if this would affect the ability to book directly on the SeaPort website? Initially I thought that maybe the disappearance of all the PDX service was a glitch like you mention...dropping out of a GDS system, or moving to their sister carrier, or something like that. But the fact that at SeaPort's website it does let me book MCI-SLN in January but not PDX-BFI in January makes me think it really is toast.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3134 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8920 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DTW-TVS 6>4 DEC-

Checked airnav.com and couldn't locate TVS -- could this be TVC?


User currently offlinemikesairways From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8865 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LAX-SJC 4>3 NOV-

Already - that just started too. Hope its not a bad sign already.



The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
25 enilria : So is 1X seasonally suspending or are they done? I get the impression it's being evaluated continually. Where will the XJET planes go I wonder? Good
26 SCL767 : Great to see that LAN will operate the SCL-LAX route as a non-stop service twice weekly in time for the high season. Thus LA/LP will operate into LAX
27 KarlB737 : You're doing very well. We appreciate these updates in air service that you are providing.
28 deltal1011man : agreed. Its way to far away for things to be set in stone.
29 RJNUT : i dont think Skywest would have any part of this type of operation should they get their hands on ExpressJet so the Branson Airport group that put th
30 dfw11 : Dude it doesn't matter about the mistakes, your freakin awesome for puttin this on here. Thanks so much
31 LAXintl : Anyone expect anything different? The LAX-SJC market is already crowded. Got 3 players before Horizon showed up. Between AA, WN and UA, the market ha
32 smoot4208 : Interesting to see VivaAerobus exit the Las Vegas-Hermosillo market CLT and PHL-SMF/PDX have been running seasonal for the past 4 years. I would expe
33 SurfandSnow : They can't keep ANY of their routes going through the winter, yet FL and F9 (with far bigger planes) can? Something seems very wrong here... SY quiet
34 deltal1011man : ehh I don't have an answer but i know Delta planned to pull KOA/LIH back this winter too, and cut OGG back to 2x 757 from 1x 757 1x 767(but LIH/KOA s
35 STT757 : CO has had similar service levels during Christmas and Easter breaks on EWR-Florida routes going back 20 years.
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : I wouldn't make too many judgements based on any seasonal schedule reductions in the January-Early Feb timeframe. That is one of the slowest travel p
37 rbgso : Only one reduction for DL in CVG. Maybe the bleeding has stopped, at least temporarily.
38 STT757 : CO has had similar service levels during Christmas and Easter breaks on EWR-Florida routes going back 20+ years.
39 Post contains images enilria : I'm interested to hear why you say that although I defer to your wisdom since I have no insight about how Skywest would view this...I know, though, t
40 RJNUT : I think SKywest , by corporate culture, is very conservative . Express jet in the past has shown more of a propensity to "crap shoot", as was reflect
41 flyinryan99 : This is just my opinion but a lot of AirTran's success of the ATL hub was flow to the southeastern cities. Well, now that a lot of those cities are s
42 Atlwest1 : I think honestlyits as they have said they are pursuing oppurtunities that are popping up they just happen to be in BWI MKE etc etc. Until they bring
43 Post contains images enilria : I still don't know how they have an IATA code since they aren't an airline. I agree with your point, though. You must be poking around my cerebrum be
44 LAXintl : Hawaii's low season is winter. Hawaii is primarily a West Coast destination, whose demand peaks during the traditional summer period with the excepti
45 planespotting : This means that with the FL's pull out of MLI/ATL (3x/day), the frequency of this route will have gone down by 50 percent within two months (with the
46 FlyASAGuy2005 : No need to look into seasonal cuts so much. By your logic, that means they are slowly shutting down ATL as well. I would venture with the above as we
47 RJNUT : I see your point, but being private, at least initially, appears to give them leverage for making attractive offers without having to answer to those
48 mariner : Frontier's MKE-BKG was announced as seasonal and DEN-BKG will reduce frequency in deep winter. I guess Airtran may keep going as daily, but they were
49 enilria : It actually looks like Fall is a little worse, but I agree February is not great. As I said post-New Year's to mid-Feb is terrible to anywhere. I was
50 Post contains images mariner : Which - presumably - is why they are reducing frequency. mariner
51 FL787 : Not quite. Though they do have a plan to diversify away from ATL as much as possible. FL has the fewest monopolized routes of any major carrier so th
52 Post contains images mariner : I won't copy and paste your entire post, but my comment is about your entire post: well said. mariner
53 Post contains images SurfandSnow : Honestly WN probably won't do much from ATL initially - probably a ~10 daily start to MDW, BWI, HOU, and MCO to kick off. Then, if they are well-rece
54 mariner : But that it is entirely of its own choosing. mariner
55 Post contains images enilria : Well, the we agree. You may well be right, but a surplus of frequency is not unique to MSY. You are making the case that FL can't compete with DL at
56 mariner : I thought the discussion was about Airtran now, not Valujet then. mariner
57 enilria : I thought you were saying that VX chose to fly only competitive routes which is largely the case, but not 100% true. The same can largely be said of
58 smoot4208 : There is a reason that FL isn't growing. The only profitable growth for them is in very low yielding markets (look at the new routes announces today)
59 mariner : As long as it is "largely the case" I am content. I don't think it is a productive debate because you and I have such diametrically different views o
60 Post contains images FL787 : Judging by WN's recent entrances to MSP, BOS, and LGA and their service to Legacy hubs like DTW, CLE, and IAD, I wouldn't expect any Florida service
61 Post contains images enilria : Actually that is a great point and something I hadn't focused on. Yes, but it's equally true of AirTran in Atlanta. Good news, we are still in that d
62 mariner : I see you banging your head - I said I didn't think it is a productive debate. FL787 has explained why he didn't include Virgin America - I think rea
63 Cubsrule : It depends on whether OO is making money on the at risk flying for UA. 7 months of profit and 5 months of parking might be better than 12 months of l
64 enilria : Well, regardless...as a new entrant you pretty much are limited to routes with existing service. The most notable carrier to try only unserved routes
65 Cubsrule : Is OO really so overstaffed that they'd have to lay the pilots off? Why not just have a bunch of pilots fly 65 hours and pay them for 70 (or whatever
66 mariner : When Maurice Gallagher put his own money into Allegiant, he found another way. mariner
67 kingcavalier : United's web site shows 12 frequencies from DEN to ASE
68 EricR : Perhaps WN will purchase FL to gain immediate access to the ATL market.
69 Post contains images enilria : I don't know that they are laying off, but whatever you do you end up paying employees to do nothing. In your scenario it's the same, you are just hi
70 mariner : I'm not exactly clear where Fargo is an alternate for, because Allegiant flies to the alternates - Minot, Bismarck, and Grand Forks. In any event, Mr
71 Cubsrule : Yes - assuming they don't have pilots flying more than the guarantee. If they do, it may not cost them that much.
72 Atlwest1 : All I can say in regards to this FL debate is that there are some things coming down the pipeline that if you look at the company now are totally unne
73 Cubsrule : Something like what Jack Kennedy said way back when, the question isn't what WN brings to ATL. It's what ATL brings to WN - and as WN enters more oth
74 mariner : Yes. All this was said about DEN, and it always amused me that people talked about "the battle" at DEN. It wasn't a battle because Southwest was neve
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