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Allegiant New Route Announcement Wed 9/15; XNA-?  
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6037 times:

Allegiant's Facebook page says they have more new service to announce Wednesday.

Time for guesses.

The Facebook page includes a hint that Allegiant will be "rolling back prices".
http://www.facebook.com/Allegiant

Sounds like a new route at XNA to me.  

The only question is where? Phoenix/Mesa or PIE or FLL or MYR or ?????


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

I think PIE or FLL will launch before Phoenix. Arizona doesn't seem to attract a lot of visitors from Arkansas. My assumption is that they opt for Florida over Arizona. However, I think the reverse is true for other states such as IA, SD, NE, etc.

[Edited 2010-09-14 20:15:25]

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

Isn't one of their 757s already painted and ready to go? I imagine its about time to hear about some of the cross-country 757 training flights, don't you? Unfortunately, I imagine Hawaii announcements are still several months away.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1230 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
I think PIE or FLL will launch before Phoenix. Arizona doesn't seem to attract a lot of visitors from Arkansas. My assumption is that they opt for Florida over Arizona. However, I think the reverse is true for other states such as IA, SD, NE, etc.

I agree. The vast majority of the visitors here are from the midwest and particularly northern states (and Canada...lots of Canadians). This is the major factor for why IWA (or AZA, if you will) has been so successful for Allegiant. The southeast states tend to stick with Florida because they generally seek out beaches.

I think that Phoenix/Mesa will become more attractive to other demographics with Gaylord Resorts and Hotels beginning construction on a new massive resort/convention center less than 2 miles north of the airport in the coming months -- 100+ acres on the old GM test site with 1,500 rooms and 40,000sqft of meeting space and something like 4 Robert Trent Jones golf courses. I'd say IWA is in a pretty good location for what will probably become a big draw, and Allegiant is no doubt at the forefront.

As for a guess on the new destination, I think XNA is probably a good idea. The southeastern states are a pretty big hole in the G4 routemap and XNA would pull from a fairly large area.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

Looks like it will be Phoenix/Mesa from XNA. Flights will start November 18 and operate Thurs/Sun the rest of this year before switching to Wed/Sat in February.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2032 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 4):
Looks like it will be Phoenix/Mesa from XNA. Flights will start November 18 and operate Thurs/Sun the rest of this year before switching to Wed/Sat in February.

I don't have access to Fbook here at work but I think I was the first one to guess right under the original comment they (Allegiant) made. I think this route will have no problems at all.  


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

Ryan, I just checked and it looks like you were the first to guess it over there.   


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

And here is the XNA to Phoenix/Mesa press release.
http://www.allegiantair.com/aaNews/aaNews20100915.php



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5335 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 7):
And here is the XNA to Phoenix/Mesa press release.
http://www.allegiantair.com/aaNews/a...5.php

Wow. This is a complete surprise. It will be interesting to see how this one works out. As ATCSundevil and myself have pointed out, most SE states opt for Florida. It will be interesting to see how they do on this route.

Any additional flights out of IWA is great news for the airport. With the recent round of new flights out of IWA, I wonder if they will launch routes to Hawaii with their new 757s. It would be direct competition to US.


User currently offline93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 8):
I wonder if they will launch routes to Hawaii with their new 757s. It would be direct competition to US.

Would be very nice, however I do not see this happening when they could opt for other metro areas with no competition at all. Not only would they have US to compete with, don't forget about the daily 767 that HA brings in ( with better service IMHO ).

Congrats G4 and to KIWA/AZA for yet another route! I just don't understand when G4 has done so well there and added so many routes very quickly, why hasn't a second airline seriously looked to start service!

Will this route affect the Branson route at all?


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 9):
don't forget about the daily 767 that HA brings in ( with better service IMHO ).

I completely forgot about HA. I would agree the service is better.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 9):
Would be very nice, however I do not see this happening when they could opt for other metro areas with no competition at all.

Agreed, but this was my thought..... It is only a matter of time before G4 starts offering connecting service. Seems to me Hawaii would be a good test in offering connecting service.

In addition, offering connecting service for their Hawaii routes is less risky because not only will you get local O&D, but you would also get connecting feed from many destinations to fill the 757 instead of relying on a smaller population to fill the plane.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 10):
Agreed, but this was my thought..... It is only a matter of time before G4 starts offering connecting service. Seems to me Hawaii would be a good test in offering connecting service.

In addition, offering connecting service for their Hawaii routes is less risky because not only will you get local O&D, but you would also get connecting feed from many destinations to fill the 757 instead of relying on a smaller population to fill the plane.

I do not see Allegiant offering connections.

The problem with Allegiant doing connections is their less than daily service at the small cities. They do not place passengers on other airlines if a flight is missed and in some cases Allegiant is the only airline at the small city.

For example if XNA-AZA is twice a week, what happens to a passenger trying to get to/from Hawaii who misses the connection? Does the passenger sit in a Phoenix area hotel room at personal expense for 3 days?

The Allegiant business model just does not work on a connecting basis. Now if a passenger wants to buy 2 tickets and risk missing a connection that is different. But I do not see G4 taking on that misconnect risk.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 11):
I do not see Allegiant offering connections.

The problem with Allegiant doing connections is their less than daily service at the small cities. They do not place passengers on other airlines if a flight is missed and in some cases Allegiant is the only airline at the small city.


There are definitely some issues that G4 will have to address in order to make the connection strategy work. One of those could be entering into a reciprocal relationship with another carrier to transport passengers who miss their connections.

The larger point (and maybe outside the scope of this post) is that at some point G4 needs to offer connections in order to maintain a high growth rate to satisfy investors. Several LCCs had G4's strategy, but eventually started offering connections once growth opportunities began to decrease.


User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 12):
There are definitely some issues that G4 will have to address in order to make the connection strategy work. One of those could be entering into a reciprocal relationship with another carrier to transport passengers who miss their connections.

The larger point (and maybe outside the scope of this post) is that at some point G4 needs to offer connections in order to maintain a high growth rate to satisfy investors. Several LCCs had G4's strategy, but eventually started offering connections once growth opportunities began to decrease.

I agree with FATflyer that connections aren't anywhere in G4's near future. There are many reasons why G4 has been successful, but one of the main reasons is the way their control their costs. They control their costs in many ways, such as by not overnighting crews anywhere, or by buying used airplanes with cash, or by flying into underserved airports with low fees. But one of the biggest ways in which they control costs is by not interlining with anyone.

If G4 started to offer connections, they I think they would have no other choice but to establish agreeements with other airlines to protect passengers in case of missed connections. (By the way, this wouldn't be easy to do because no airlines fly into some of G4's airport. For example, if someone missed a connection at AZA for a flight to SBN, even if G4 could protect the passenger on another carrier, how would this work out? Noone else flies to either AZA or SBN.) This is a very costly thing to do and it would immediately erase a big chunk of their competitive advatange. While you're correct that several other airlines that the point-to-point, nonstop strategy at first, their business plan was not at all like that of G4. G4's plan is to strictly fly from small cities to vacation destianations - in most cases a couple of times a week. There really are no other airlines that have done this. The very nature of this type of strategy makes connections not feasible.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 12):
Several LCCs had G4's strategy, but eventually started offering connections once growth opportunities began to decrease.

Which LCCs are you thinking of? I'm not sure I can think of a LCC that has had Allegiant's focus on leisure package sales. for most airlines it has been a smaller side business.

There are companies that have tried to operate P2P and those that have tried LCC service to small cities, but Allegiant is more interested in selling leisure packages. For example, they are now one of the largest room wholesalers in Vegas. Try to buy air only tickets to destination cities and the website prompts you to also add on hotel, room, etc.

Personally I like their vacation package focus and lack of complexity (like connections) on the flight side. I'd be concerned if they moved too far away from that and tried to become another standard LCC. They tried that originally when they started here at FAT and failed, it was this model that saved them.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 14):
Which LCCs are you thinking of? I'm not sure I can think of a LCC that has had Allegiant's focus on leisure package sales. for most airlines it has been a smaller side business.

By strategy, I was referring to the strategy around connections, not overall airline strategy.

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 13):
I agree with FATflyer that connections aren't anywhere in G4's near future. There are many reasons why G4 has been successful, but one of the main reasons is the way their control their costs. They control their costs in many ways, such as by not overnighting crews anywhere, or by buying used airplanes with cash, or by flying into underserved airports with low fees. But one of the biggest ways in which they control costs is by not interlining with anyone.

I mentioned at SOME POINT in the future. I didn't say immediate future.

G4's strategy works for them today, however, at some point, there will not be enough growth for them using their current business model. Their current business model is good and works for them today. However, once G4's growth starts to slow down, they will have no choice but to look at other options. All investors demand growth in the companies they are investing in and G4 is no exception.

For example, 15 years ago, everyone (including WN themseleves) said that WN would never enter into cities such as New York or Boston because it did not fit into their business model. However, after WN entered into all feasable cities that it could, it had no choice but to expand into marktes once thought as taboo. Why? Because there was no where else for them to keep up the same type of growth rates that they had in the past.

In order to remain a viable carrier with continued growth, WN had to adjust their business model. 15 years from now, WN will probably be serving Hawaii (another destination thought as a poor fit to their old business model), Canada (an internataional destination thought as a poor fit to their old business model), the Carribean (an internataional destination thought as a poor fit to their old business model), and many other markets.

Companies that survive in the long run are those that can easily adapt. IMO, it is NOT a matter of IF, but WHEN G4 starts to offer connection opportunities.

[Edited 2010-09-15 18:05:43]

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Companies that survive in the long run are those that can easily adapt.

And in several decades of management consulting I have also seen companies that tried to become something they were not and failed.

As you realize also, it is not as simple as saying that companies adapt and make large changes in their business model and always survive. Change also makes many companies fail or lose money. Profits take precedence over poor planned or managed growth.

And there are many avenues for growth for G4, not just setting up passenger connections. They are not a true airline, although not everyone realizes that given the emphasis on the flight side here.

That said, one area that Allegiant has hinted at for future growth is in travel booking not air travel with connections. They may end up expanding to compete with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity, not becoming the next WN. The corporate name is Allegiant Travel after all.  

Given some of the behind the scenes pieces that I know about, selling more land only travel OR selling packages on other carriers is something they might make work beyond the current route network.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 8):
As ATCSundevil and myself have pointed out, most SE states opt for Florida. It will be interesting to see how they do on this route.

I'm well aware that the University of Arkansas plays in the SEC, but I don't know that Arkansas is really a southeastern state or that XNA is the southeast. XNA is about the same distance from Phoenix as from Miami.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):

And in several decades of management consulting I have also seen companies that tried to become something they were not and failed.

As you realize also, it is not as simple as saying that companies adapt and make large changes in their business model and always survive. Change also makes many companies fail or lose money. Profits take precedence over poor planned or managed growth.

And there are many avenues for growth for G4, not just setting up passenger connections. They are not a true airline, although not everyone realizes that given the emphasis on the flight side here.

That said, one area that Allegiant has hinted at for future growth is in travel booking not air travel with connections. They may end up expanding to compete with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity, not becoming the next WN. The corporate name is Allegiant Travel after all

Unfortunately, your many years of management consulting experience are in direct conflict with what the airline has stated as growth initiatives in their most recent management presentation (slide 22).

The airline has stated that the 4 ways to grow are:
1.) New Small Cities
2.) New Destinations
3.) Connect dots
4.) Add flights on existing routes

Not one item above mentions anything about expanding to compete with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity. This strategy has been tried in the past by other airlines with total failure. Why? Because this strategy causes airlines to lose focus of their primary role, which is flying passengers.

Based on initiatives 3 and 4, the airline is starting to lay the ground work for connecting flights. Again, Allegiant will eventually grow out of their current model and in order to keep up growth, they will have no choice but to offer connecting opportunities.

Allegiant's current strategy severely limits them on the spoke end because of limited flight options, thus the reason why 46% (slide 16) of their passengers have flown 2 times or less on Allegiant in the past two years. Offering connecting service will change this limitation.

Allegiant's goal of creating shareholder value (which is the objective of publicly traded corporations) is:
1.) Consistently strong level of profitability
2.) Highly adaptable (which I mentioned in reply 15)
3.) High growth (which I mentioned in reply 15)
4.) Outstanding balance sheet
5.) Experienced, motivated management team

As I mentioned previously, G4 will adapt (Bullet point #2) if it wants to survive long term. This means they WILL offer connections (adapt) in order to maintain high levels of growth (bullet point #3).

I'm not sure what type of management consulting you did, but your methodology is out of date. 20 years ago, status quo may have been the way to do business, but things change too much these days and competition is too fierce to continue to do business the same way. I don't know of any healthy companies these days that do not adapt to the ever changing marketplace.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
I'm well aware that the University of Arkansas plays in the SEC, but I don't know that Arkansas is really a southeastern state or that XNA is the southeast. XNA is about the same distance from Phoenix as from Miami.

Distance is only one component. Tradition and ties are another. People in certain parts of the country have traditionally traveled to certain parts of the country.

Whether we want to classify Arkansas as a southeastern state or not, the fact of the matter is that Arizona does not receive a large amount of travelers from Arkansas or other states to the south and/or east of Arkansas. Arizona receives a large portion of its visitors from the midwest.

[Edited 2010-09-18 09:36:46]

User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
I think PIE or FLL will launch before Phoenix. Arizona doesn't seem to attract a lot of visitors from Arkansas. My assumption is that they opt for Florida over Arizona. However, I think the reverse is true for other states such as IA, SD, NE, etc.

half true, while Arizona is a huge draw from the upper midwest (IA, SD, IL etc) Florida also draws alot of travelers from this area as well, however people in the upper midwest tend to gravitate towards the west coast of FL, which is why you will see PIE have a good amount of service from this region (i.e. CID, DSM, PIA, RFD etc) and FLL does not. SFB/MCO is popular from just about any region. I noticed this CID is keeping its SFB flights in the non peak season (Sept-Nov) due to their poularity and some VFR traffic. Also may have helped that we lost our DL ATL flight so this gives us a year round direct link to the southeast.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5848 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
I'm not sure what type of management consulting you did, but your methodology is out of date. 20 years ago, status quo may have been the way to do business, but things change too much these days and competition is too fierce to continue to do business the same way. I don't know of any healthy companies these days that do not adapt to the ever changing marketplace.

You missed my point (and its present tense for consulting, I'm not that old and out of touch  Wow! ). What I said was:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
I have also seen companies that tried to become something they were not and failed.

I never said status quo, even 20 years ago companies had to adapt and change.

My point was moving into areas/products you do not understand or are not built culturally/operationally/structurally to enter can cause companies to lose. It has happened in this industry (such as carrier within a carrier) and in others. Even buying the expertise to enter a new business or related business has failed for some companies.

Profitable growth and adaptation is appropriate, I never disagreed with Allegiant continuing to adapt and grow in different ways or different markets.

My only disagreement is with your statement that the growth will be via connections.

I believe that is a different business than Allegiant is in and a large change in how the company has been built.

In documents such as 10-Ks G4 starts out by saying "Business Overview - We are a leisure travel company focused on residents of small cities in the United States." Other air carriers usually start the 10-K by saying things like "We are a major airline" or "We provide scheduled air transportation".

Allegiant sees themselves first in the vacation and leisure travel business not as a LCC airline or a transportation company.

Like you, I have pondered in the past that Allegiant might offer connections (for an additional fee of course   ) but when I start digging deeper into the operational design of the company I see connections as being too different from Allegiant's current design.

If customers want to buy two tickets and self-connect, great. But Allegiant would have to invest in changes in many, many areas to offer connections while also adding potential problems and costs.

What has Allegiant management said about code-shares, connections, etc.? In the Q4 2009 conference call they were asked and indicated they do not see a lot of possibilities right now, that it would require hurdling some big IT issues, and that they have an "out-and-back" approach to operations.

Could they decide to offer connections? Sure, but I think it requires a large restucturing of what they have been building.

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
Not one item above mentions anything about expanding to compete with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity.

Not one thing says competing with travel companies? They included in that management presentation the statement "Expedia with wings".    

But I simply said it was "one area" I could see them move into, based on what I know and have heard about various moves.

They already control distribution of their product via the web (no GDS); they are building a vacation-connected brand name in small cities; they are building a large database of customers; they buy large blocks of rooms; etc. All of that could possibly be leveraged into becoming a seller of leisure travel products beyond the packages on their own flights.

For example, right now if I want to drive to Vegas instead of fly (so that I can sightsee or make a stop along the way) I can't buy my Vegas hotel from Allegiant, even though I think about their brand when I think Vegas or vacation before I think about many other brands since Allegiant advertises in my market area.

But I would buy from Allegiant if land-only was offered and pricing was right. Not very different from what they already offer me online in an air-included package, just leaving out the air portion.

Another growth avenue might be moving into vacation packages from larger cities to resorts. More competitive than small cities but they may reach a size where their volume purchasing of wholesale rooms might allow them to enter more competitive markets. That would be the same leisure travel product moved to larger markets, but when it is appropriate to compete in them.

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
This strategy has been tried in the past by other airlines with total failure. Why? Because this strategy causes airlines to lose focus of their primary role, which is flying passengers.

But I believe you are still looking at the company as a LCC airline. Again they say "We are a leisure travel company focused on residents of small cities in the United States".

G4s strategy/business plan, to me, is not a LCC/LFC, it is selling packages and flights direct to vacation destinations. Do some people buy tickets just to fly the route for non-vacation purposes? Sure, but that is not what the company is built to offer.

I don't know if you have read one of their annual reports/10-Ks/or their IPO but they keep repeating the simple leisure travel product approach. A few quotes from the year end 2009 10-K.

Quote:
"We have consciously developed a different business model:
Allegiant Approach
• Focus on leisure traveler
• Provide low frequency service from small cities
• Use larger jet aircraft to provide nonstop service from small cities direct to leisure destinations
• Sell only directly to travelers without participation in global distribution systems
• No connecting flights offered
• Do not use frequent flyer programs or code-share arrangement"
Quote:
"Our Competitive Strengths
Simple Product. We believe offering a simple product is critical to achieving low operating costs. As such, we sell only nonstop flights; we do not code-share or interline with other carriers; we have a single class cabin; we do not provide any free catered items—everything on board is for sale; we do not overbook our flights; we do not provide cargo or mail services; and we do not offer other perks such as airport lounges."
Quote:
"Our Business Strategy
To continue the growth of our business and increase our profitability, our strategy will be to continue to offer a single class of air travel service at low fares, while maintaining high quality standards, keeping our operating costs low and pursuing ways to make our operations more efficient. We intend to grow by adding flights on existing routes, entering additional small cities, connecting our existing small cities to more of our leisure destinations, providing service to more leisure destinations and expanding our relationships with premier leisure companies."
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...0104746910001935/a2197041z10-k.htm

I keep seeing G4 say leisure travel, simple product, no connections, non-stops, etc. I just don't see trying to be a LCC with connections as a move for them based on their philosophies about how they achieve low operating costs.

Will Allegiant adapt and change, absolutely. Its just that I'd prefer to see them leave connections to others. They have other avenues and methods to continue their growth that match better to their structure.

And thanks for the good discussion. I always enjoy a good conversation. It provides for an exchange of ideas and views.   



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 19):
Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
I think PIE or FLL will launch before Phoenix. Arizona doesn't seem to attract a lot of visitors from Arkansas. My assumption is that they opt for Florida over Arizona. However, I think the reverse is true for other states such as IA, SD, NE, etc.

half true, while Arizona is a huge draw from the upper midwest (IA, SD, IL etc) Florida also draws alot of travelers from this area as well, however people in the upper midwest tend to gravitate towards the west coast of FL, which is why you will see PIE have a good amount of service from this region (i.e. CID, DSM, PIA, RFD etc) and FLL does not.

No, actually this is 100% true. Arizona ATTRACTS more visitors from the midwest than they do from the Southeast.

I never mentioned anything that said people from the midwest do NOT visit Florida.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1322 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Also Allegiant makes a large amount of their profits from people who book hotels/ car rentals. Keep in mind, who wants to connect on G4 to their current cities? America West couldn't make Stockton, CA work with a whole country of connections; And people expect that the growth model for Allegiant is to offer people connections from there to what? FWA, SBN, DLH, etc. Even by offering these "supposed connections", they wouldn't make nearly the amount of money they do with their current strategy. Who is going to book a vacation package to these small cities? (What Allegiant makes a lot of money off of.)

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 20):
Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
Not one item above mentions anything about expanding to compete with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity.

Not one thing says competing with travel companies? They included in that management presentation the statement "Expedia with wings"

Unfortunately, you conveniently left out the top part of my response. So, let me add it in for you....I said:

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):

The airline has stated that the 4 ways to grow are:
1.) New Small Cities
2.) New Destinations
3.) Connect dots
4.) Add flights on existing routes

Not one item above mentions anything about expanding to compete with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity. This strategy has been tried in the past by other airlines with total failure.

As you can see, their is not one item in their growth list that mentions competing with travel companies like Expedia or Travelocity. You can't just pick and chose pieces of my response to help support your argument.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 20):
What has Allegiant management said about code-shares, connections, etc.? In the Q4 2009 conference call they were asked and indicated they do not see a lot of possibilities right now, that it would require hurdling some big IT issues, and that they have an "out-and-back" approach to operations.

Could they decide to offer connections? Sure, but I think it requires a large restructuring of what they have been building.

Again, as I mentioned, successful companies learn to adapt. Shareholders will want to see continued growth. Once Allegiant has exhausted all options to smaller cities, it will have to develop a connection strategy for continued growth.

Almost half of their passengers have flown Allegiant 2 times or less in the last 2 years. G4 will need to develop a strategy to get these fliers to fly G4 more often. Their current spoke strategy is not conducive to long term growth. It places severe limits on growth from the spoke cities.

I understand today they are primarily a travel and leisure company, but 5 to 10 years from now, they are going to need to develop a different strategy to to continue this growth. In addition, the leisure component is not even listed as a growth engine for the company. How are they going to build the leisure end without also building up the travel end? It goes hand in hand.

[Edited 2010-09-18 13:50:53]

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 22):
Who is going to book a vacation package to these small cities? (What Allegiant makes a lot of money off of.)

According to Allegiant, there must be plenty of people to make these flights work. It is number 3 on their growth initiatives.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 22):
Even by offering these "supposed connections", they wouldn't make nearly the amount of money they do with their current strategy.

Again, it goes back to growth. There is limited growth with their current strategy. The number 1 objective of publicly traded corporations is creating shareholder. This is achieved by growth.

When G4 has tapped out their current strategy, they will have to offer connections. Even though the connection strategy may result in more costs, it is still a profitable strategy and will be required to maintain growth.

[Edited 2010-09-18 14:17:42]

25 Post contains images FATFlyer : Gee and I put 2 smilies in to try to get a laugh out of you and instead I get back criticism about that comment? Actually aren't you relying on Power
26 FATFlyer : I forgot to repond to this. As I said that was "one" possible growth area based on comments I have heard in conference calls, presentations, and in di
27 EricR : Just for the record, I am debating, not criticizing. I find your posts too valuable to criticize. But like all posts, there are components that we ag
28 Post contains links FATFlyer : Actually I just remembered the comment from Gallagher about them competing with Expedia from an article. So I went and dug it up for you. "Gallagher c
29 Cubsrule : Agreed - but XNA is just about in Oklahoma, and I don't know that Oklahoma gravitates toward Florida (note that WN flies OKC/TUL/LIT-PHX but does not
30 EricR : So, just to clarify, I never said Arkansas was in a Florida centric part of the world. My point was that it would seem more reasonable for G4 to add
31 smoot4208 : Did DL Connection ever fly XNA-MCO? I thought they did around 05/06...If they did it was very short lived.
32 Cubsrule : Maybe the question is "does Florida?" LITPHX is larger than LITMCO.
33 CIDflyer : I know Arizona attracts more from the midwest and was agreeing with that part. I was repsonding to the 2nd portion of your post where it was insinuat
34 EricR : Good point. According to BTS, the most heavily traveled destinations from Arkansas are: 1.) Texas 2.) California 3.) Florida 13.) Arizona Thus the re
35 Cubsrule : The problem is this, though. For tourist purposes, "Florida" is ECP + TPA + MCO + FLL + RSW (and the areas surrounding each). "Arizona" is basically
36 EricR : First of all, Arizona is not basically PHX. There is plenty of commercial air service to TUS whose metro population of just over 1 million is 1/3 lar
37 Cubsrule : How much tourist demand is there to TUS or YUM? There's certainly tourist demand to FLG, but for the budget traveler (and even for many higher-yield
38 EricR : Exactly correct....which is why your statement above completely contradicts what you are saying below: So in Arizona you think it is reasonable for s
39 Blueman87 : Doesnt K-mart or Wal-Mart use that more comp for sky harbour glad to see
40 Blueman87 : But my Guess Stewert in Newburgh Don't know the airport code i read it somewhere on the internet i think it was Lohud.com
41 Cubsrule : Yes - because FLG has 3 flights to one destination, while PHX has what? 500 flights to 100 destinations or some such? If it's impossible to get somew
42 FATFlyer : Wal-Mart, which is headquartered near XNA. It was a cute hint/joke by Allegiant of where the new route would be.
43 EricR : Agreed, but neither scenario applies to FLG either. You lost me on this one. Not sure what your point is here. Why are you attempting to compare TPA
44 Cubsrule : TPA has a lot more service than DAB. Thus, a passenger who wants to go to Tampa is a lot less likely to fly to Orlando and drive than a passenger who
45 EricR : I would agree if Orlando was the only place in Central Florida to visit. But the fact of the matter is that there is much more than just Orlando in C
46 Cubsrule : ...which also means that a carrier with sub-daily flights to one airport is going to have a smaller market share, doesn't it? If I want to go to Sara
47 EricR : Ok. Interesting point. Smaller market share - yes. However, one thing to keep in mind is the nonstop flight and low fares are big attractions to peop
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