shamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14908 times:
Great news espeically the direct flight to EZE. It says GRU will continue as a stand alone route. I cant help that EZE is a bit contradictive since I thought BA wanted to route most of its South American traffic via MAD?
DFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1064 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14608 times:
The initial schedule to Tokyo Haneda will be as follows -:
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22058 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14532 times:
Quoting lhr380 (Reply 3): because of the fantastic connections HND offers.
You'll have zero connections for a 0625am departure from HND unless you expect people to spent the night in the terminal.
Rather miserable departure time for local pax also.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
What an awful schedule for a flight to Japan. Surprising the 777 is on the ground for less then 90 minutes. IS it worth serving Haneda with such an schedule ?
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14419 times:
LHR-EZE was long overdue, but that will have a negative effective effect on QF. BA's tags were helping feed EZE-SYD with passengers from GRU.
Of course, BA's decision may have come as a response to the gradual loss of competitiveness on the SAO-BUE market which could be making the tag unsustainable. Competing with AEP even with the best product is really difficult.
DFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1064 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14374 times:
The outbound LHR-HND flight actually has reasonably good timing, especially in the summer with a 9am departure from LHR and a very early arrival in Haneda. People will arrive in time for a full days business with HND’s excellent location allowing quick access to central Tokyo. The flight will also provide great connections to JAL’s first early domestic bank out of Haneda, serving over 30 Japanese cities, most of which are not connected to Narita.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): You'll have zero connections for a 0625am departure from HND unless you expect people to spent the night in the terminal.
Rather miserable departure time for local pax also.
Agreed. As you say, the return flight is very badly timed with an extraordinarily early departure and no same-day connectivity. But BA is restricted to the 2200-0700 window so they really have no choice. The new routes by AA (to New York), DL (to Detroit) and SQ (to Singapore) also have very early departures so BA won’t be alone in that.
Let's also remember that BA/JL are planning to form a joint services agreement, so this flight will eventually be jointly marketed/operated by AA/JL and will just be one flight in a larger combined schedule of up to 3x daily flights in the London-Tokyo market. While this flight may struggle as a standalone flights, it may be fine as part of a more comprehensive schedule to provide more options for travellers. (at least that's what AA is for hoping on JFK-HND!)
teme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14099 times:
Man if AY could fly 7 daily to HND
That would be nice since AY does got good coverage from HEL to rest of Europe and I've been told that AY has good reputation in Japan.
LondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13909 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): You'll have zero connections for a 0625am departure from HND unless you expect people to spent the night in the terminal.
Rather miserable departure time for local pax also.
The timings ex-LHR at 0800 aren't ideal either. Yes, they're alright if you live within easy reach of LHR but 0800 is too early for short-haul connections from points in the UK and mainland Europe. But as it's been said above, it's all to do with restrictions at HND being placed on the times when long distance international flights can operate.
Quoting teme82 (Reply 11): Man if AY could fly 7 daily to HND
That would be nice since AY does got good coverage from HEL to rest of Europe and I've been told that AY has good reputation in Japan.
I believe that KL and LH have also been granted rights to operate into HND. As far as I know, this concession does not yet apply to AY. But behind the scenes all the big European carriers must be negotiating with the HND authorities for traffic rights and it can only be a matter of time before more services start.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15733 posts, RR: 48 Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13661 times:
Yuck. But I suppose everyone is getting their foot in the door at this point; I doubt anyone is expecting to make money in HND other than a few lucky carriers where the timings actually work.
AA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 13352 times:
Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 1): I cant help that EZE is a bit contradictive since I thought BA wanted to route most of its South American traffic via MAD?
I assume that this is perhaps one flight where BA feels there is enough O&D traffic from the UK to warrant a direct and non-stop flight. I am sure we'll see BA add a few more South American cities over the next few years, while expansion from MAD will be centred around more secondary/ smaller cities in South America since all the major/ capitals are covered already. BA will likely utilize the MAD hub for these connecting opportunities to the smaller/ secondary cities and any other cities that lack the strong O&D traffic like GRU and EZE.
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7): BA's tags were helping feed EZE-SYD with passengers from GRU.
BA had local traffic rights GRU-EZE?
QF won't be without feed thoguh, surely LAN Argentina flies the route asnd provides feed.
COA735 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11992 times:
Quoting robffm2 (Reply 9): Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 8):
But BA is restricted to the 2200-0700 window
What is the nature/reasoning for such a restriction?
The Japanese gov't is doing this because they want to keep Narita their primary international airport. Otherwise, airlines would pick Haneda over Narita because of its close proximity to downtown and connections.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11747 times:
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 12):
I believe that KL and LH have also been granted rights to operate into HND.
AF also has rights. KL won't be operating to HND anytime soon. The first Skyteam flight to HND out of Europe will probably ex CDG. As BA is the first to publish its HND offering, I wonder how soon the others (AF and LH) will follow.
Irishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11311 times:
What are the flight numbers for the LHR-HND route?
DFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1064 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11275 times:
Quoting Irishpower (Reply 21): What are the flight numbers for the LHR-HND route?
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10683 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting DFWEagle (Thread starter): According to this news item on the BA site, they will launch new daily LHR-EZE on 27 Mar 2011 and 5 weekly LHR-HND on 19 Feb 2011
Very nice news for EZE ! Now they got LHR non-stop ! It seems that BA slowly begin to see Deep South America as a good market. Now lets wait for LIM and additional GIG service.
Quoting AF086 (Reply 14): Still waiting for a boost on LHR-GIG's frequencies and a schedule improvement. It's also long overdue!
In my view, will not happen in 2011 considering that they also increase seat offer to Brazil with dedicate 744 service to Sao Paulo.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Irishpower: So now the next question is - Who and when will be the next European carrier start flights into HND? If we could look into a crystal ball and see what
26 SurfandSnow: Which "lucky carriers" are these? I don't think any airline serving a prestigious business hub and expansive metropolis (where many pax could be trav
27 mdavies06: Not all airlines will lose money. JL+NH, and the few Asian carriers which are lucky to get the midday slots.
28 DFWEagle: Early morning arrivals are great for business traffic - that's why the most expensive LHR slots are in the early morning. Also, late night departures
29 C010T3: Well, the moment in Brazil is also not ideal. If the news reports that the capacity at GRU will be slashed in 50% from March through December because
30 eastern023: I cannot believe nobody has asked the question, here it comes:.....What about a tag on to SCL?
31 SurfandSnow: Actually I don't think those airlines will do well either. It's not like KE can operate daytime flights to its ICN hub that seamlessly connect to the
32 DFWEagle: For JAL, it is better to serve GMP/TSA/SHA anyway because they are all closer to the cities they serve than the larger hubs you mention. JAL's hub is
33 Viscount724: BA operated LHR-EZE nonstop with 744s in the past, 1990s I believe but may have been a little later. Forget how long that lasted until they switched t
34 MaverickM11: The times work great for HA--it arrives in HND at 2205 and departs at 2359, arriving back in HNL at a reasonable 1140. For a such a huge local market
35 EZEIZA: There have been rumours here that QF is eriously considering to shut down SYD-EZE Any chance BA will also return to SCL via EZE?
36 LipeGIG: I agree, but it seems BA will help by not runing one take off and one lading every day. GRU gain with capacity to LON but lose the flight to EZE. I d
37 A340600: Will LGW gain an extra 777 to cope with the increase in their schedule or will it be easily swallowed by the current based a/c?
38 steve6666: Well, you'd arrive in GRU at a marginally more civilised 6am/7am, but the current 5.15am arrival has the advantage that immigration and the motorway
39 kaitak: However, HND is about to open an international terminal, so I wonder how long these restrictions will last. I always believe that "unnatural" restric
40 LipeGIG: Yes, i think about LIM. It's a booming OW hub with lots of services to secondary markets as well as to places such as Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay and Bo
41 COA735: The restrictions are designed to keep HND from becoming a international juggernaut and keep Narita from drying up. (That's what I meant in my previou
42 LondonCity: But don't the restrictions apply to all carriers depending on the route length. If as you say the Japanese carriers can use the terminal all day then
43 trex8: why has the Japanese government restricted flights to Europe/US to late evening- early morning but not flights to other places?
44 carpethead: They apply to Japanese carriers as well. That just wouldn't be fair. Out of curiosity, why don't some long-haul carriers park their aircraft all day
45 SurfandSnow: The Japanese carriers may use the terminal during the day for specific flights to neighboring countries, but not for long hauls to North America, Eur
46 COA735: Are you sure about this? It looks like they use it all day. Take a look at this: http://airlineroute.net/2010/06/29/jl-hndw10-intl/#more-22334
47 COA735: Ahh.. I didn't know that. I read this somewhere but the article was very brief and lacked details.
48 HeeseokKoo: Only GMP, SHA, PEK, HKG, and TSA are okay on daytime. Other than that are all happening between 10pm-7am, such as BKK, SIN, CDG, HNL, and SFO.
49 vv701: BA ceased operating to MEL and now only fly to SYD once (instead of formerly twice) a day mainly to avoid having several aircraft aircraft sitting on
50 LHRFlyer: BA do (for now) fly to SYD twice daily (via BKK and SYD).
51 richardw: How will this affect crew based at GRU and EZE, if there are any ?
52 skyhigh: Is there much advantage when the flight arrives at 0500 and departs at 0659, just 1 minute before Narita opens? I notice that the BA flight departs N
53 standby87: HND? Hmmm....not the best of starts. I know the reasons, but that's got to be the worst scheduling I've ever seen. 0800hrs Departure from LHR?! I've f
54 LondonCity: But the faster Narita Express still takes 53 mins to reach Tokyo's main station from the airport: http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/nex/
55 ohsopc: Not sure if this is possible, but If I was BA I'd schedule it so that they are both night flights and shuttle the plane out to NRT to fly the return:
56 skipness1E: Good grief! What do you think adding a twice daily empty shuttle flight will add to the costs? You'd need a different flight deck crew to fly the emp
57 DFWEagle: Not to mention that a large proportion of business traffic is headed to Shinjuku, which is on the other side of the city and even farther from Narita
58 skyhigh: Although I would imagine that most business people will take a taxi or arrange transport in advance, does public transport operate round the clock fro
59 vv701: And it arrives two hours before NRT opens. If the flight was timed to arrive at 0700 - just as NRT opens - it would need to park up until after 2200
60 HeeseokKoo: I would rather make an aircraft stay at HND all day long and do this: LHR 1000 - HND 0700+1 HND 0225 - LHR 0600 If HND route really becomes cash cow,
61 vv701: With 19.5 hours on the ground at HND and a minimum of two hours on the ground at home base BA would need the equivalent of an additional totally non-
62 HeeseokKoo: Your points are valid. Although cases are different, one AA 777 stays at NRT from 4pm to 11am next day, and a couple of UA aircrafts sit at PVG and P
63 Crosswind: The HND schedule posted above is operates for only around 1 month to get the service to the end of the Winter schedule from it's launch date. The Summ
64 skipness1E: Just because someone else does something dumb doesn't mean we all have to join them. BA needs to have it's aircraft in the air flying making money an
65 DFWEagle: You do realise that BA already chooses to do exactly what he is referring to? They are the ones that choose to ground 3x 744's in South Africa for 12
66 Speedbird2155: BA's schedule to South Africa and the fact that aircraft spend around 12hrs on the ground is not just to provide a competitive schedule but reflects
67 skipness1E: They choose to because they have to do this to be competitive. It is far from ideal is part of the reason the fares remain so high to this part of th
68 LondonCity: Agreed. It's a similar scenario on the kangaroo route where BA's flight from LHR must spend many hours on the ground in SYD before it can return to L
69 DFWEagle: Well, thats the reason why everyone else does it too. You said -: That is true for every carrier. But sometimes in order to be competitive its worth
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