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AF To Lima And Orlando In June 2011  
User currently offlinemattteo From France, joined Feb 2008, 47 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10607 times:

That's good news  http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pr...ima-a-partir-de-juin-2011/back/61/

Regrads,

Mattteo  

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10561 times:

Speaking about the Latin American scenario, only Sao Paulo and Mexico City are sustaining the dual equation named KL and AF.
Thus, the intended AF CDG-LIM would complement the current KL AMS-LIM.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10560 times:

Very surprised AF will be using the 77W on MCO, I would have thought daily 332.

I wonder how the bods at KL feel about AF muscling in at LIM, is the KL LIM always full?

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10554 times:

Good news.
So, MCO will be served by 77Ws. I guess MIA will switch to 77W soon...



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17481 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10506 times:

Two great adds; I think LIM and Peru/Colombia in general will be seeing a lot of new capacity as they continue to grow like weeds.

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
Very surprised AF will be using the 77W on MCO,

That's the right plane for the market: next to no front cabin, hundreds in the back, low unit costs...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10477 times:

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
Very surprised AF will be using the 77W on MCO, I would have thought daily 332.

Or at least 5-weekly 332.

DL short-lived ORY-MCO line had a 5-weekly 313.

[Edited 2010-09-21 06:59:42]

User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2622 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10426 times:

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
wonder how the bods at KL feel about AF muscling in at LIM, is the KL LIM always full?

Often KL AMS-PTY do carry a number of LIM bound CM connecting passengers.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10383 times:

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
Very surprised AF will be using the 77W on MCO

The B77W used to MCO will be in "COI" (Caribbean Indian Ocean) configuration : 14J / 36W / 422 M

To LIM, AF will use the new-config B772ER with no First Class (only J/W/Y).


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10333 times:

As an "answer" to SN expansion in West Africa, AF is also considering to open very soon FNA (Freetown) and ROB (Monrovia)

User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10235 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
To LIM, AF will use the new-config B772ER with no First Class (only J/W/Y).

FlySSC, what would be AF/KL's next steps in South America? Perhaps the long rumoured AMS-GIG by KL and CDG-REC with AF (when the open-skies comes into force, naturally).



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10222 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
The B77W used to MCO will be in "COI" (Caribbean Indian Ocean) configuration : 14J / 36W / 422 M

Meaning that Alizé class will be offered for the very 1st time on a US flight, instead of Premium Voyageur.

Given the density in M class, I really feel sorry for those travelling in that cabin.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6163 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 10191 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 9):
FlySSC, what would be AF/KL's next steps in South America? Perhaps the long rumoured AMS-GIG by KL and CDG-REC with AF (when the open-skies comes into force, naturally).

While not S. America....it has been long rumored that AF wants in at SJO. If CM goes to Star...KL in PTY and AF in SJO would be a good match.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSPIM2EDDN From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 10132 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 1):
Speaking about the Latin American scenario, only Sao Paulo and Mexico City are sustaining the dual equation named KL and AF.
Thus, the intended AF CDG-LIM would complement the current KL AMS-LIM.

Very aggressive move. I think probably aimed at keeping LH out of LIM.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 10111 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 9):
FlySSC, what would be AF/KL's next steps in South America? Perhaps the long rumoured AMS-GIG by KL and CDG-REC with AF (when the open-skies comes into force, naturally).

AF seved REC in the past as a stop on its services further south, but I do not see that as placing REC at an advantage compared to other cities in Brazil. I would think SSA has an edge because SSA-CDG is a bigger market than REC-CDG, and SSA-Europe in general is bigger than REC-Europe. Also the Club Meds in Bahia seen to place SSA ahead.



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User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17481 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 10001 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 10):
I really feel sorry for those travelling in that cabin.

That'll pass when you see the fare they pay 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 9948 times:

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 12):
Very aggressive move. I think probably aimed at keeping LH out of LIM.

and at containing LH+european subsidiaries/partners in South America.

Should LATAM see light and move to OW; LH would then have to expand there primarly through TP.

Also a strategic move against BA-IB (LATAM?).

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
That'll pass when you see the fare they pay

I m not sure whether that flight will be so cheaply priced.

In the past, Jumbo and Jet Tours America would charter a high-density 742 of AF on CDG-MCO, though.

[Edited 2010-09-21 08:00:10]

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 9934 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 10):
Meaning that Alizé class will be offered for the very 1st time on a US flight, instead of Premium Voyageur.

Not sure...

This "COI" configured B77W is already used by AF during the summer on CDG-YUL-CDG, but its sold as 14J / 458M (36+422).
The inflight service is also a "COI" type service (no choice for main course, etc ...) but the fares on this particular flight (AF344/345) is also lower than on the 3 others Daily CDG-YUL-CDG.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 10):
Given the density in M class, I really feel sorry for those travelling in that cabin.

True ... but they get what they've paid for ...


User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 9934 times:

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 2):
I wonder how the bods at KL feel about AF muscling in at LIM, is the KL LIM always full?

The AMS LIM route is very busy. KLM is about to deploy the B77W on some of its flights to cater for the large demand, so I am not surprised by this move of adding AF to the mix.


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 9937 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 13):
AF seved REC in the past as a stop on its services further south, but I do not see that as placing REC at an advantage compared to other cities in Brazil. I would think SSA has an edge because SSA-CDG is a bigger market than REC-CDG, and SSA-Europe in general is bigger than REC-Europe. Also the Club Meds in Bahia seen to place SSA ahead.

Not really. AF served REC with A332 as a dedicates service until the begining of the 2000s. There is market between REC and Europe, hence the latest IB application they chose REC instead of SSA for their circular route. That would be also a good flight from CDG to the Brazilian northeast: a circular one. Perhaps CDG-REC-SSA-CDG with the 332.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 9883 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
it has been long rumored that AF wants in at SJO. If CM goes to Star...KL in PTY and AF in SJO would be a good match.

These rumors happened before KL resumed PTY in 2008.
We have to consider that CM is bearing the KL code in selected flights to Central America and the Caribbean, SJO included.
KL PTY-AMS goes to 6x weekly shortly and I expect KL AMS-PTY daily before any attempt of AF in Central America.




.

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 12):
I think probably aimed at keeping LH out of LIM.

Good point taken. LH would resume BOG in the near future and it might be forming part of the strategy of Star Alliance in South America if AV/TA would go truly to such alliance.
LIM is the key South American base of TA and that airline is holding the LH code in both TA LIM-GRU and TA LIM-CCS.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (3 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 18):
AF served REC with A332 as a dedicates service until the begining of the 2000s

  

AF never served REC with the A332.
AF stopped serving REC in the late 80s/early 90s, keeping REC only as a cargo destination.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (3 years 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 18):
Not really. AF served REC with A332 as a dedicates service until the begining of the 2000s.

I never heard of that either.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 18):
hence the latest IB application they chose REC instead of SSA for their circular route

Just because IB selected REC, it does not mean it is the best choice for AF from CDG.

Also, the presence of IB in REC makes it less attractive to AF.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7147 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 9440 times:

I've directly heard plans for the A380 to on CDG MEX.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinesscaf001 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 9281 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 20):
AF never served REC with the A332.



AF used to operate on CDG-REC with 343 twice a week in 1992/93 (each wednesday and sunday, departure time CDG 12h40)


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (3 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 9281 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 22):
I've directly heard plans for the A380 to on CDG MEX.

Yep !

MEX is on the list for a future A380 destination, along with PEK, LAX, SIN.
IAD is almost sure for next summer 2011.


25 peanuts : Why MCO 3x a week on a 777??? Why not utilize ATI/JV agreement and have DL fly daily 767? At least it gives you a chance in getting some premium traff
26 FlySSC : Mostly leisure market = low yield ==> Bigger Capacity / less frequencies = lower cost compared to smaller aircraft/Higher frequencies
27 peanuts : I get that. However, considering DL has a large FF base in MCO, you would think they could pick up some premium traffic (that would connect through A
28 Post contains images Avianca : so I was right some days ago with my posting! not passenger but cargo... impressive the loads out of LIMA. (average of 20 tons per flight). I only won
29 Post contains images Kappel : Regarding MCO, this makes sense as MP is likely to totally drop pax services, so KL will likely route MCO pax through AF, further filling the 77W. And
30 eastern023 : Is KLM looking to expand more in deep south america?. EZE and SCL comes to mind.
31 NAS738 : Orlando does have a fairly good coverage of Europe now. Virgin Atlantic, BA, AirLingus, Icelandair, Lufthansa and now AirFrance. Anyone I'm missing?
32 willd : Interesting move re: MCO. Sensible to opt for the 77W given the success that LH have had since they started MCO services. I would also imagine that th
33 kennyone : Air France just became my new favorite airline. Congratulations AF !!! Will be flying your CDG-MCO every time now !
34 A388 : I'm not sure KL really is happy with this move as AF can steal away their own passengers. Even though AF/KL are "one airline" you always want to have
35 DeltAirlines : The amount of originating paid, premium cabin travel out of Orlando is rather minimal. The new flights will be a good option to have, but trying to f
36 MCOGVADCA : While not necessarily originating in Orlando, there will be some premium cabin to Orlando, especially with convention traffic returning. Let's not fo
37 Avianca : also very good possible we will see soon the 747-400 on certain days. what I do not understand is why they really use the same incoming and outcoming
38 LipeGIG : Congrats to AF for the new services ! Interesting to see SkyTeam looking more for LIM than OW which have a hub there. Still, LIM will join the club of
39 Avianca : well with alread 18 weekly nonstop flights to MAD OW is not too bad in LIM Also I see much more room for AF than for BA here in Peru! Good luck! So l
40 OA412 : When you're one airline, there is not "by yourself".
41 DeltAirlines : There is some premium traffic coming ex-Europe, but in many cases, it falls into one of two camps - already has a nonstop available via BA/Virgin/Luf
42 Post contains images peanuts : Fully agree. Tampa and Orlando are not "just tourist" destinations. Another a.net myth. These are major communities with young families and with aver
43 FlySSC : [quote=peanuts,reply=42] Opening a new destination like MCO with a Daily frequency is quite risky. If this flight proves to be successful and requires
44 Kappel : That's indeed the question, what will Arkefly do. But do they have the equipment available to add this route?
45 MAH4546 : There is no "myth" about it. The 777s operating the Orlando-Paris route will be COI and only have a mere 14 business class seats. Meanwhile, Virgin A
46 A388 : If the profits (and losses) of AF are also going to KL and vice versa of course than you are right but I don't know how that is divided between KL/AF
47 DFWEagle : So, your idea of a daily B763 provides less than 100 additional seats overall, yet the costs will be far higher with more than double the number of w
48 klmcedric : Well it's two airlines, but one group, and it's the figures of that group that matters to the stockholders. Such decisions are made by one group of m
49 peanuts : I understand. It all depends how you look at it. Currently, SkyTeam has no non-stop transatlantic presence at MCO. You have to make your mark somewhe
50 SR4ever : On the other hand, it is not so much in the interest of KL to leave too much unattended demand on LIM-Europe. If the reply to you booking enquiry is
51 MAH4546 : DL and KL knew everything about this move. It is part of their joint-venture. Schedules and planning are done as one airline.
52 peanuts : In the end, yes. We know nothing about the actual processes. DL and AF disagree on different issues. It's normal. I was just speculating on the fact
53 MAH4546 : But the fact remains that the three cooperated and found Paris-Orlando to be the best solution. There is virtually no premium demand to Orlando, and
54 peanuts : Why not? LH seems to think so. If that's indeed the case, 3x/week still seems standoffish to me. Bottom line for me: I see things on here from an all
55 MAH4546 : And Lufthansa was the first to arrive, so it has first mover's advantage. It was the first carrier to connect MCO to a true European legacy hub. And
56 crownvic : I heard it was gonna be CONCORDE....reserected....And Fast Pass wont be available....
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