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Will BA A380 Merge JFK Flights?  
User currently offlineuaeflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1151 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 16007 times:

I came last night from JFK to LHR on-board one of British Airways Jumbos. When I looked into the schedule displayed on the screen, I saw that 2 Jumbos and 1 T7 leaves JFK within 80 minutes.
I thought about the A380 that BA ordered, would the A380 merge some of those flights ?

Appreciate your response.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 15936 times:

Well I would think they might merge a couple frequencies but not too many let's face it. They are talking of making a kind of shuttle with AA on LHR-JFK and the A380's capacity would not play well into that at least in the beginning.

BA will probably use the A380 to limit the number of places that need 10-11 flights a week to a single daily run, or grow on places by switching to A380 flights rather than adding frequencies.

All this in order to increased their offering while relying on a limited amount of precious slots.

I'd also expect more European flights to see the axe or be moved out of LHR to recup some slots as well.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 15881 times:

Most of the posters on here would say no, as JFK is dependent on frequency - but this is not something I agree with.

More than likely, by the time BA get their A380s, one of the 744 departures will have grown to A380-level demand.

They may even keep the number of frequencies, but go multiple daily on JFK with A380s, as its a short run (comparatively) and is easy to schedule.

I dont think JFK will be one of the first routes BA will put the big lady on.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinemysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 15839 times:

T7 at JFK is still unable to accommodate the A380 at any of their gates. I wouldn't bet on any A380 services for at least 5 years on BA.

User currently offlineuaeflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 15811 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
I dont think JFK will be one of the first routes BA will put the big lady on.

I thought that JFK is the crown on their routes and they will put it on JFK route. I think they might promote it as a Concorde heir of that route.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 15697 times:

Quoting uaeflyer (Reply 4):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
I dont think JFK will be one of the first routes BA will put the big lady on.

I thought that JFK is the crown on their routes and they will put it on JFK route. I think they might promote it as a Concorde heir of that route.

Nope - i think ORD, LAX, SFO, NRT, CPT, HKG and quick runs to DXB will be first.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24961 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 15542 times:

Would imagine JFK to remain a multi frequency B77W/B787/A350 route.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10185 posts, RR: 97
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 15464 times:
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Quoting gkirk (Reply 6):
Would imagine JFK to remain a multi frequency B77W/B787/A350 route

As CHRISBA777ER says, as demand grows, I see no reason why one of the frequencies (at least) couldn't upgauge to an A380 over time, with the balance being, as you say, medium/large twins......

Rgds


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 15368 times:

From January 2011 (I believe), BA will have 7 flights per day to JFK and AA will have 5 still (used to be 6). I reckon AA should add the extra frequency again and once the ATI has gone through, have a schedule like follows:

LHR - JFK Dep. 08:00 Arr. 10:30 BA
LHR - JFK Dep. 09:00 Arr. 11:30 AA
LHR - JFK Dep. 10:00 Arr. 12:30 BA
LHR - JFK Dep. 11:00 Arr. 13:30 AA
LHR - JFK Dep. 12:00 Arr. 14:30 BA
LHR - JFK Dep. 13:00 Arr. 15:30 AA
LHR - JFK Dep. 14:00 Arr. 16:30 BA
LHR - JFK Dep. 15:00 Arr. 17:30 AA
LHR - JFK Dep. 16:00 Arr. 18:30 BA
LHR - JFK Dep. 17:00 Arr. 19:30 AA
LHR - JFK Dep. 18:00 Arr. 20:30 BA
LHR - JFK Dep. 19:00 Arr. 21:30 AA
LHR - JFK Dep. 20:00 Arr. 22:30 BA

JFK - LHR Dep. 08:00 Arr. 20:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 09:00 Arr. 21:00 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 18:00 Arr. 06:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 18:30 Arr. 06:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 19:00 Arr. 07:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 19:30 Arr. 07:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 20:00 Arr. 08:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 20:30 Arr. 08:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 21:00 Arr. 09:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 21:30 Arr. 09:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 22:00 Arr. 10:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 22:30 Arr. 10:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 23:00 Arr. 11:00 BA

All with B772

Thoughts anyone?


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3599 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 15294 times:

My thoughts are that it's a very London-centric schedule due to the time zones. Hourly service TA looks great from Europe, not so great from the US when there isn't a flight scheduled for most of the hours we are awake.

"JFK - LHR Dep. 18:00 Arr. 06:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 18:30 Arr. 06:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 19:00 Arr. 07:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 19:30 Arr. 07:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 20:00 Arr. 08:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 20:30 Arr. 08:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 21:00 Arr. 09:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 21:30 Arr. 09:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 22:00 Arr. 10:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 22:30 Arr. 10:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 23:00 Arr. 11:00 BA"

What's the incentive to have 11 departures that fly through the night when you can have a 380 that leaves a 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10? Anything past 9 (and really it's 8 pm) and you are arriving past the start of the next business day.


User currently offlineFCO110 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 15118 times:

I do not understand with the disparity in the product how BA would not see increased capacity when you figure only an hour difference, some times half per the above, between two flights - assuming that one will be able to get AA miles when flying BA on the trans atlantic piece.

User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 15109 times:

BA is most likely to use the A380 on routes where flights currently leave within a short distance of each other, such as JNB and HKG, due to time zones and curfews.

Post ATI JFK will be a turn up and go route (for those all important holders of expensive flexible tickets).


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4864 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 15062 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
More than likely, by the time BA get their A380s, one of the 744 departures will have grown to A380-level demand.

They may even keep the number of frequencies, but go multiple daily on JFK with A380s, as its a short run (comparatively) and is easy to schedule.


That sounds very logical and likely to me. Keeping the frequency while offering an improved product with room to grow the number of passengers sound like a good strategy for this specific route. But I think this will not apply to all routes BA might be putting their A380's on.  .


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 14950 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 9):
My thoughts are that it's a very London-centric schedule due to the time zones. Hourly service TA looks great from Europe, not so great from the US when there isn't a flight scheduled for most of the hours we are awake.

"JFK - LHR Dep. 18:00 Arr. 06:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 18:30 Arr. 06:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 19:00 Arr. 07:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 19:30 Arr. 07:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 20:00 Arr. 08:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 20:30 Arr. 08:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 21:00 Arr. 09:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 21:30 Arr. 09:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 22:00 Arr. 10:00 BA
JFK - LHR Dep. 22:30 Arr. 10:30 AA
JFK - LHR Dep. 23:00 Arr. 11:00 BA"

Sorry, but could you expand on your explanation a bit more, as you've rather lost me? With the schedule you've listed how are you possibly coming to the conclusion that "there isn't a flight scheduled for most of the hours we are awake"???
Time zones of course play a part, but you also seem to be forgetting that LHR has a curfew.


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14153 times:

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):

Looking at all these numbers I wonder what is the overall percentages of bums on seat for each flight?
Do we REALLY need them?

[Edited 2010-09-22 12:29:31]


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently onlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 842 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14080 times:

Personally I think LHR - JFK (and vice - versa) only needs about 8 flights a day. Any more and the route becomes a slot-whore at both airports preventing both AA and BA from adding additional destinations to/from both JFK and LHR.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2462 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14021 times:

I reckon we may see one on the LHR-SIN route too, compete against SQ and QF on the route!?


http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3599 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13899 times:

"Sorry, but could you expand on your explanation a bit more, as you've rather lost me? With the schedule you've listed how are you possibly coming to the conclusion that "there isn't a flight scheduled for most of the hours we are awake"???
Time zones of course play a part, but you also seem to be forgetting that LHR has a curfew."

Bingo my friend, you just hit it on the head! If you are in London the schedule works great thanks to time zones.

If you are in NYC, you can leave 2 times of the day and get to Europe

1. Early Morning
2. Evening

Hence why an hourly shuttle between the airports isn't hourly at all from NYC. It's 2 morning departures and a bunch of flights crammed together after 6pm.

Thing is, there is no reason for a flight every half hour after 6 pm. Anf if you leave NYC past 8 pm, you will not be in London for opening of business.


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 765 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13213 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
Nope - i think ORD, LAX, SFO, NRT, CPT, HKG and quick runs to DXB will be first

I don't think JFK is even on the radar at the moment for BA and the A380. Add the likes of LAD, IAH and YVR to the list above and maybe remove DXB and NRT and that is personally what I think BA will be looking to use the A380 on.


User currently offlineORD2PHL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12877 times:

As part of the AA/BA codeshare, I thought either AA or BA leadership was quotes as saying that they would like to establish almost an hourly shuttle between the airlines from JFK to LHR.

I could be wrong but I swore I read this somewhere.

ORD2PHL


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12043 times:

Not sure if ORD will see the 380. Like JFK, this route will have frequency (not at the scale of JFK, but probably close to 8 daily flights).

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11899 times:

Quoting FCO110 (Reply 10):
I do not understand with the disparity in the product how BA would not see increased capacity when you figure only an hour difference, some times half per the above, between two flights - assuming that one will be able to get AA miles when flying BA on the trans atlantic piece.

The disparity in product won't be around for long.



a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11799 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 13):
Sorry, but could you expand on your explanation a bit more, as you've rather lost me? With the schedule you've listed how are you possibly coming to the conclusion that "there isn't a flight scheduled for most of the hours we are awake"???

He means there are no flights departing JFK between 0900 and 1800 due to the effect of time zones and curfews. That's not a problem westbound.

[Edited 2010-09-22 15:43:54]

User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7695 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11710 times:

Quoting mysterzip (Reply 3):
T7 at JFK is still unable to accommodate the A380 at any of their gates. I wouldn't bet on any A380 services for at least 5 years on BA.

AA and BA have already publicly discussed BA moving into T8 at JFK. They have not yet suggested when that move might take place. Nevertheless this poses the question as to whether T8 can handle the A380?


User currently offlinejbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 549 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11567 times:

Based on the proposed schedule it seems like there would be a lot of aircraft waiting around at JFK prior to to the evening departures. AA would have more flexibility to send them elsewhere like NRT. Makes for good spotting.

25 par13del : In this relationship obviously BA is the primary provider of lift into JFK, presently they use 744's and 777's, AA's largest is 777. With ATI BA coul
26 SSTsomeday : Right. Also perhaps Johannesburg? I thought I read that BA intends to keep the 747/777 primarily on the JFK route and keep up the frequencies. But th
27 mysterzip : They did. But I suspect nothing's going to happen within five years (read: no terminal move for BA) because they still have the lease with PANYNJ. It
28 cpd : I have to think the A380 might be more sensible on the long range routes like London to Sydney where it can fight against the other A380s of Emirates,
29 richardw : Perhaps BA will be looking at the total revenue forecasts for the entire A380 fleet, they'll be considering the maximum utilisation for the fleet and
30 peanuts : Excellent point. At some point, the competition will force OW to find better use of it's precious JFK and LHR slots. After all, I thought the whole p
31 teme82 : My few cents are for the Airbus philosophy. I would say that the planned A389 would work on LHR-JFK route. And that would help to ease the "traffic j
32 UALWN : Indeed. Not only that, but with the proposed schedule BA would have a 772 sitting idle at JFK from 10:30 to 18:00, another from 12:30 to 19:00, anoth
33 shankly : One assumes BA/AA's focus on frequency LON-NYC is in relation to premium passengers. Accordingly, the area in which to improve frequency would be on t
34 CHRISBA777ER : The cutting frequency argument is an interesting one. Scenario : Imagine if you will, 2017 or so. The landscape on TATL is very different, because amo
35 par13del : One of the primary reasons why JFK-LHR times are shifted towards one side of the pond is the curfew and slot issue, since there are no "free slots" a
36 aireuropeuk733 : I think it is but I don't think you can quote an A380 being an heir to Concorde. Concorde worked for BA as it was the only airline that had it on the
37 keesje : Seems the reasonal approach. A380s could filled with connnection passengers from BA EMEA network. A possible disadvantage could arise if passengers f
38 DLPMMM : Or the other option of connecting passengers flying through LHR to other European hub airports that are not slot restricted, such as MAD, AMS, or CDG
39 cslusarc : At least someone agrees with me. I think that hourly flights from JFK to LHR from 18:30 to 23:30 would be perfect with two morning departures at 07:3
40 par13del : Not saying english is not spoken but I have heard stories of english speakers travelling through hubs other than LHR, signage seems to have been a pr
41 mysterzip : But that's the way it is now. BA's first arrival into JFK is at 11:30 and first departure is at 1820, with further arrivals spread out in the day. Th
42 mutu : Perhaps then AA fly the earlier ex LHR departures and BA the later bank, thus turning round quicker and AA rotating frames onward The squeezing of de
43 babybus : The A380 sucks passengers off other aircraft. Something BA wouldn't want to happen on the LHR-JFK route.
44 LTBEWR : Perhaps too, BA-AA may make a deal to cut a flight from EWR or BA use a 747 instead of a 777 for service to LHR, then dedicate an A-380 for the busies
45 ikramerica : Not everyone needs to be there at the opening of business, especially leisure travelers who may prefer to eat dinner in NYC and arrive London by lunc
46 cpd : The other obvious problem is that the A380 is in relative terms, as slow as a wet week. It's hardly a Concorde replacement. Concorde offered speed an
47 GenYBusTrvlr : Can T8 handle the A380? BA moving into AA's terminal would be no shocker. Same alliance, virtual merger, it's nicer, and seems to have plenty of avai
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