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KLM Ordered Dreamliner Apparently?  
User currently offlineDutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 99 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16799 times:

Hi all,

A few days ago I spoke with a senior member of KLM's management (high up there and no, not a pilot!   He's family.). He perhaps spoke too soon by telling me KLM already ordered the B787 as they are very impressed by it. He seemed quite sure of himself and was apparently a bit shocked it wasn't out there yet and he might have said too much...AFAIK KLM did not order the Dreamliner yet, did they? Can it be true? Are there any undisclosed orders? Is it perhaps still a secret (to get a better deal on the A350)? Does anybody know more?

Regards

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5454 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16704 times:

I thought that there was a discussion a while back about this, though it had more to do with the demise of a lessor. IIRC, that lessor had ordered 787's that were to be placed with KL. Hopefully someone will be able to shed more light on this.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16589 times:

Well, there is still this UFO for 15 787-9's from december 2008. Could very well be to cover replacement of the MD11 fleet which will leave KL around 2015, and a few of the oldest 747 combis.

And there are also quite a few 787's ordered by leasing firms, KL could have secured some of them. IIRC, someone high up at KL mentioned earlier that they had a deal to lease 787's from RBS, but then RBS mysteriously cancelled their 787 order  

And it could also be that there is some technicality that prevents the order from showing up in Boeings orderbook.



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User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5454 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16568 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 2):
IIRC, someone high up at KL mentioned earlier that they had a deal to lease 787's from RBS, but then RBS mysteriously cancelled their 787 order

I believe that's what I recall as well. In any event, the 787-9 order would make sense.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16465 times:

Quoting DutchBoeing (Thread starter):
He seemed quite sure of himself and was apparently a bit shocked it wasn't out there yet and he might have said too much.

With the utmost respect, surely a member of very senior management should very clearly and definitively KNOW whether such an announcement had been made....or not!


User currently offlineDutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16316 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 4):
With the utmost respect, surely a member of very senior management should very clearly and definitively KNOW whether such an announcement had been made....or not!

True'ish... He is not involved so much in the operational side of the airline. Which a/c KLM has / has ordered is not so much a concern to him. That's why he might not have that clear, but trust me, he is quite high! But that is not very relevant for this discussion I suppose.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16316 times:
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Quoting AirNZ (Reply 4):
With the utmost respect, surely a member of very senior management should very clearly and definitively KNOW whether such an announcement had been made....or not!


I would think so too. Which does not take away anything from the fact that I believe KLM will buy the B787 for sure. And I could also see them buying A350's. They are to me a candidate for a split order. And there have been many talks and rumors out there that AF/KLM will purchase 100 wide bodies and will devide these over their respective fleets.

But I do not think that they have already ordered the B787. No doubt any aircraft manufacturer would make a serious announcement about that. And AF/KLM should do so too since they are a public company with an obligation to inform their share holders (and us      ).


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16268 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 4):
With the utmost respect, surely a member of very senior management should very clearly and definitively KNOW whether such an announcement had been made....or not!

Not necessarily....I work with several airlines....and some of them are highly compartmentalized ....they make the decision a the upper levels then hand it off to PR/Marketing to do the official announcements etc.

You have to remember that having probably heard internally about the 78s for some time, some of these execs might just take it for granted that everyone else knows.

Upper management is maybe busying dealing with prickly French bosses at AF or figuring out how to pay for the darn things.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13447 times:

KL will not place an order on its side
AF will not place an order on its side.

AFKL will place a single order (for around 100 aircraft) , for both AF & KL. There is now only one Department in charge of the fleet renewal for AFKL. This Chief of this Departement is a Dutch guy, originally from KLM.

I think if AFKL had placed an order for the 787 (or the A350), we would have heard about it ...

The last information we had on the subject was that AFKL delayed its decision until Airbus has firmly decided if they will propose a GE powered A350 or not.


User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8871 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):
The last information we had on the subject was that AFKL delayed its decision until Airbus has firmly decided if they will propose a GE powered A350 or not.

I have heard nothing about that.

In the past AF-KLM said they would probably order both 787 and A350. IMO their is an industry tendency that shows a combination of smaller 787s and bigger XWB's might be the way forward for the bigger operators.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-Oqf_vOmanM/SxuO3TQCBWI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/RycPrvUy7-E/s1600/KLM_787-800.jpg


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

Quoting DutchBoeing (Thread starter):
He perhaps spoke too soon by telling me KLM already ordered the B787 as they are very impressed by it

They had already placed an order through a lessor for the 789, there was a thread about this a while ago. It's certain that the 789 will enter KLM's fleet at some point.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 1):
though it had more to do with the demise of a lessor.

Indeed, as mentioned above, they placed an order with a lessor, but they went under and so did KLM's order.



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User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8608 times:

Surely a public company like AF-KLM would be required to disclose this commitment in the financial statements no?

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8294 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 11):
Surely a public company like AF-KLM would be required to disclose this commitment in the financial statements no?

Indeed. And this should be the end to this thread.


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7701 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

As this turned out to be a rumor, I'm locking the thread.

Any additional posts that are made to this thread after this post will be removed for housekeeping purposes, as this may happen due to a short system lag.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
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