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AA To Drop SJU-TPA/BOS/BWI/PHL/SDQ Again.  
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16387 times:

AA will drop SJU-TPA/BOS/BWI/PHL/SDQ again. Last flight will operate April 6, 2011. AE will also cut 10 flights out of SJU the same date. This will leave AA/AE with a combined 41 departures.

This was announced to employees not too long ago. And indeed flights are zeroed out after the 6th. FL/B6 in, AA out.


"The low fares airline."
165 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16480 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
AA will drop SJU-TPA/BOS/BWI/PHL/SDQ again. Last flight will operate April 6, 2011. AE will also cut 10 flights out of SJU the same date. This will leave AA/AE with a combined 41 departures.

Um...wow...the last P2P clingers of the SJU hub will soon be gone. Sad AA. What about IAD?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16424 times:

This is not good. Another crack in this region for AA.
AA is handing over the keys of the Caribbean to the LCC's.

AA, the legacy carrier of the Caribbean has capitulated a market they once ruled.

[Edited 2010-09-24 12:05:49]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2088 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16404 times:

Wow. Been discussing the changes at ORD and STL so much lately that we've completely forgotten about SJU. Same situation in 2008 - they can't catch a break. Are they still keeping the LAX-SJU flight?


next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7325 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16391 times:

I would love to know where these planes are going.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16340 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
AA will drop SJU-TPA/BOS/BWI/PHL/SDQ again.

   The last time around, AA announced that it would cut BWI, FLL, EWR, MCO, LAX, and IAD (as well as a downgrade of intra-Caribbean mainline flights to SDQ, AUA, etc. to Eagle). Ultimately the airline decided to keep BWI, LAX, and IAD - in fact, both LAX and IAD will survive this round of cuts as well.

Nobody back in 2008 could have foreseen AA cutting BOS-SJU which was, at the time, a major focus city-hub route. BOS is now little more than a spoke - even BOS-SFO is ending.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 1):
the last P2P clingers of the SJU hub will soon be gone

Well, mainline will still serve BDL, IAD, and CCS in addition to the five hubs at DFW/ORD/MIA/JFK/LAX. Eagle will still have a fairly robust operation throughout the Eastern Caribbean.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 1):
What about IAD?

Somehow this one escaped the ax. SJU-BDL and SJU-CCS make sense because AA is the only carrier on these routes. But SJU-IAD, against UA, which has significant feed on the IAD end? AA has been cutting from the Washington market a lot lately, so I imagine there must be some contract (federal gov't or otherwise) keeping this one in place.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1105 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16304 times:

They are not dropping again...only BWI was part of the initial drop and then restarted. This is not surprising. SJU has become "LCC territory". The economy in Puerto Rico is not good either; it's too expensive to vacation in Puerto Rico. Remember, AA is right-sizing and keeping services to its hubs and focus cities. SJU-PHL has a lot of capacity on USAirways (3/4 per day even A330 and 5/6 on weekends); SJU-BOS; B6 already has 3 daily, SJU-TPA; B6/FL will start 4 per day...AA's 757 on the SJU-TPA route will be put to better use on longer sectors; FL/B6 will lower fares on the SJU-TPA and AA will not be profitable; same thing happened when AA cancelled its 4 daily A300s between SJU-MCO...the market became low cost. SJU-SDQ is well served by AE and jetBlue has 1 or 2 daily jets per day depending on the season.

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16246 times:

Let me add a few more thoughts to my reply #2 post.

Maybe this is good, for AA. As discussed in an earlier thread, AA needs to get through some pain first in order to get better. This may be a step in that direction. This is a sign that the AA days of reckoning are well under way.

Let's not forget the huge price AA is paying for their own sluggishness though. They've made it too easy for LCC's to enter the Caribbean, just way too easy.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16249 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
AA will drop SJU-TPA/BOS/BWI/PHL/SDQ again.

It is interesting that they will continue to serve BDL-SJU and IAD-SJU. It's crazy to think that AUS will soon have more mainline AA seats than SJU.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6843 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16210 times:

I was just about to book SJU-SDQ...maybe not. I was surprised that B6 flies it.

User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16181 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 5):
Somehow this one escaped the ax

AA dropped IAD along with EWR in 2008 but brought it back in 2009. Seems like AA really can't make up their minds at SJU. IMHO, they are cutting (and in 2008, rather have been cutting) some very valuable routes.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6180 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16131 times:

AA discontinues more SJU flights, Que Pena! What was once a sizeable operation is now a mere spoke in the Catribbean. I can see IAD going by the way side in the not too distant future. CCS is safe as it is the only link between San Juan and Caracas, from what I have understood the route is safe. Additionally, do to the tense relationship between the US and Venezuela no LCC or new airline will get the rights to serve the route (in the near future). BDL is safe as long as a LCC does not jump intto the route, if JetBlue decides to add SJU from BDL in the future AA's BDL-SJU route will be done as well. It will be interesting to see if the new UA/CO decides to bully AA on the ORD-SJU. These days you push and shove AA and they seem to retrench.

Regards,

[Edited 2010-09-24 13:17:18]


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15984 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 6):
They are not dropping again...only BWI was part of the initial drop and then restarted.

Yes they are. They initially did drop it, and then brought it back along with IAD/SDQ.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
AA dropped IAD along with EWR in 2008 but brought it back in 2009.

IAD was dropped, and then brought back as stated above. EWR-SJU was dropped, and never came back.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15959 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 12):
IAD was dropped, and then brought back as stated above. EWR-SJU was dropped, and never came back.

Yes typical AA. Retrenching in profitable markets. EWR-SJU was profitable and they know it.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15838 times:

My thought and prayers go to the employees affected by this...besides that I'm glad this happened they are a terrible airline, hopefully Jetblue or Spirit will finally step in, perhaps Sprit will reopen their SJU base (hint).

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15694 times:

Quoting Santi319 (Reply 14):
My thought and prayers go to the employees affected by this...besides that I'm glad this happened they are a terrible airline, hopefully Jetblue or Spirit will finally step in, perhaps Sprit will reopen their SJU base (hint).

Jetblue with Cape Air (ATR and C402) would be a perfect fit



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineSanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15652 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 15):
Jetblue with Cape Air (ATR and C402) would be a perfect fit

I agree! Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the islands won't be able to handle the E190????


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15643 times:

I remember the days when AA flew several A300s daily between Boston and San Juan. This is quite a drop in passenger capacity not to mention freight capacity from those A300 days. What percentage of this market would constitute cruise traffic? Half?

User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 708 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15587 times:

Ummm... did anyone think that maybe this is also going to be a calculated move to "shift" the market over to a more "appropriate" operation for the economic environment??? (B6) I.O.W.... AA pulls its capacity away from SJU to allow the fleet to be better utilized on their own network with more biz/high-end revenue potential.. free up some larger equipment for the new BA/IB/AA joint venture... and then expand the new codeshare to B6 who may take over a large percentage of the Caribbean and San Juan ops????

AA and B6 are getting cozier and cozier these days... this is a perfect symbiotic relationship between two carriers in different niches.. Legacy & LCC working as one to feed each other to a joint gain....



"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15506 times:

I wouldnt be suprised to see B6 start BDL-SJU, and maybe even IAD or BWI-SJU. Such a sad story to see AA walking away from the Caribbean   Hopefully Eagle can retain a decent presence through the islands and pick up some random pax from the FL/B6/etc who bring them in from the mainland. Maybe if AA/AE can work a codeshare with B6 we will see a return of the Eagle SJU flights.

[Edited 2010-09-24 13:51:33]


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User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15509 times:

Quoting Santi319 (Reply 16):
I agree! Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the islands won't be able to handle the E190????

Thats what the ATR is for.... of course that requires 9K to get more of them and operate them like the do for CO out of GUM



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15384 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
EWR-SJU was profitable and they know it.

Do you know this was profitable just like you know DFW-EWR is profitable. Pleaes let us know your source.


User currently offlinedfw11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15290 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
I would love to know where these planes are going.

   Exactly what I thought as well. I can see a further slot swap at JFK with B6 in order to send some more 757's transatlantic.

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 18):
Ummm... did anyone think that maybe this is also going to be a calculated move to "shift" the market over to a more "appropriate" operation for the economic environment??? (B6) I.O.W.... AA pulls its capacity away from SJU to allow the fleet to be better utilized on their own network with more biz/high-end revenue potential.. free up some larger equipment for the new BA/IB/AA joint venture... and then expand the new codeshare to B6 who may take over a large percentage of the Caribbean and San Juan ops????

   AA, I think, is realizing its new priorities and wants to make up for lost time with the ATI.



“I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” - Steven Wright
User currently offlineCYBERGUS From Venezuela, joined Mar 2006, 500 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15209 times:

So definitely this leaves CCS as the only International destination of the once hub of AA? I know that the flight goes very good for connections specially to the SJU-MIA flight when the CCS-MIA are full, but is there any other strategy to impulse this route and keep it as profitable? (Besides the tension between US/Venezuela)


LAN Excellence in Flight
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15130 times:

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 18):
AA and B6 are getting cozier and cozier these days... this is a perfect symbiotic relationship between two carriers in different niches.. Legacy & LCC working as one to feed each other to a joint gain...

Mmm...if there is any truth to that than I foresee DL putting in a bid for Spirit soon and setting up shop in FLL for South America...just to make it uglier for AA.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
25 MaverickM11 : Only on a.net do people think a carrier losing as much as AA would actually cut profitable flying.
26 WA707atMSP : If DL were to take over Spirit, they would need to raise the salaries of Spirit employees to DL levels. A lot of Spirit's markets that Spirit can mak
27 peanuts : You see that happening if B6 and AA get cozier, aligning wages? That would make all these current efforts seem pointless. B6 and AA cannot be one lik
28 TOMMY767 : Why don't you go back to the other thread and look it up under the link if left for you, "AA Q1 2008 route profitability and performance." The list w
29 OzarkD9S : What's the old saying about a thousand little wounds bringing down the giant? Over the past 10 years, the LCC's have invaded not only SJU but the enti
30 hiflyer : Yup..AA reducing SJU again after winter season....they pulled once and went back chasing revenue so guess that didn't work so overflying from DFW and
31 OA412 : Indeed. These are all mainline flights are they not? It will be interesting which hub(s) are the beneficiaries of this pull-down. Agreed. Given that
32 DFWEagle : Although AA has cut back its former SJU hub to the point of basically closing it, they have grown their Miami-Caribbean network substantially. When SJ
33 peanuts : But is it a form of retreat or a brilliant new strategy? My impression is that they left the door wide open for LCC's to enter the market overall. Fo
34 CALPSAFltSkeds : The aircraft are probably going to join the MD80 hub at ROW. They'll just swap out the SJU canceled aircraft with MD80s flying somewhere and ferry th
35 Post contains images commavia : It is a retreat - from Puerto Rico - but it's not so much that they "left the door open" to LCCs, but rather than for certain Caribbean markets, the
36 Post contains links DFWEagle : Some more details emerging are that Eagle will discontinue service to six destinations from San Juan, including PAP, POS and some Dominican cities. Ho
37 FlyASAGuy2005 : With the reductions, is it possible that the many flights to SJU may be "right-sized" or down-gauged due to few connections?
38 davescj : AA is strong still in Caribbean in general. SJU is a different story. But would you consider US a LCC? (I would). This I tend to agree with, but it f
39 chepos : Regarding AA in the Caribbean - AA has also lost gound in the DR. From JFK to SDQ and STI (alone) AA has slashsed frequencies, B6 has gained alot of m
40 regupilot : I agree 100% with DFWEagle. AA does not need SJU to reach most of its Caribbean destinations and SJU (economically wise) is not in the best position n
41 smoot4208 : Anguilla, La Romana, Port of Spain, Puerto Plata, Port-au-Prince. I only counted 5 destinations
42 ChopChop767 : Regupilot makes a great point: with MIA so close, is SJU really needed? Can we say that SJU is an operational necessity for AA's system, perhaps due
43 Post contains images hiflyer : and on a related topic also with the employees at the MCI mtc base closed yesterday.
44 Post contains images AA767400 : Always nice to see your posts. Thank you for such a great analysis. To me SJU has been an LCC destination for such a longtime now. Before B6, You had
45 SHUPirate1 : Puerto Rico is part of the United States.
46 PlanesNTrains : I was kind of hoping that US would be the one to acquire Spirit. Probably wouldn't happen, but that's who I wanted to. - Dave
47 DFWEagle : The sixth is SJU-NEV (Nevis island) which will operate only for this winter. There will actually only be a few destinations left from San Juan that a
48 Post contains images airbazar : Been of a few of those flights That statement is almost contradictory. SJU is AA's Caribbean hub. By association, abandoning SJU equates to abandonin
49 jfklganyc : I imagine B6 will up freq on SJU-SDQ and I could see them adding Punta Cana-SJU. This is just connecting the dots for them. Longer term . . . BDL-SJU
50 DFWEagle : Not any more. The majority of AA's Caribbean traffic flows through Miami instead. It may not quite be within the Caribbean itself but it serves almos
51 einsteinboricua : So AA is downsizing yet again? It's bad enough that I don't constantly hear engine noise as often as before but now it's even less than before. Howeve
52 jfklganyc : "When Delta closed the old PanAm hub in FRA, did it equate to abandoning Europe? Of course not because they now serve almost all destinations non-stop
53 STT757 : It could be anything from the expansion of AA's international network to the expedited retirement of MD-80s. Exactly, AA just needs to find the right
54 airbazar : True but shifting Caribbean service away from SJU is the first step in the drawback. I didn't mean to use the word "abandoning" too literally. I was
55 stlgph : jetBlue has already said they would explore "options" to serve the Caribbean nonstop from Hartford/Bradley after they begin service in November.
56 peanuts : Yes and no I guess. The fact that AA has been slow to respond to changing conditions and cost structure is what I mean by leaving the door open. The
57 NYCAdvantage : Lets not forget Capitol, I was thinking around the same lines as you, the difference back then all those guys used old equipment, B727, DC8, B747 and
58 Cubsrule : How do you know that? How many cities has AA "abandoned" in the Caribbean in the past five years? On which routes ex-SJU is OW too expensive? I'll ce
59 EMB170 : The only reason DL would likely ever have for buying NK is to shut them down. Buy the planes, get the gates/slots/operation at FLL, and then attempt
60 MAH4546 : Um, no, they are not. AA has continued to grow in the Caribbean as it has replaced capacity from San Juan with capacity from the mainland. A few year
61 FutureUScapt : From a connectivity standpoint, yes, this makes sense. However, this is going to have adverse implications from a cost perspective. Having a traditio
62 davescj : I can see PVG being expanded. But NRT will continue to be important too. As to AA, I wonder if AA will start more direct services from their current
63 JasonCRH : Have you actually seen the numbers Tommy? Do you know for a FACT that SJU-EWR was profitable? What makes you so sure. If it were profitable, they woul
64 smoot4208 : Airlines do drop routes that are profitable. What some people don't factor in though is all the other aspects of the resources. An airplane that is f
65 TOMMY767 : YES! EWR-SJU was profitable for many years and up until the time it was dropped. Do a search "AA Q1 route performance 2008" and you will find out tha
66 FutureUScapt : First off, your link gives revenue/RASM performance, not P&L data. There is a difference. Secondly though, your last point remains true in that i
67 TOMMY767 : Your right about those lists but certainly that's a good indicator as to how a route is performing. AA I feel is king of cutting profitable flights a
68 MAH4546 : There was actually a lot of behind the scenes politics with ORD-DME that killed the route. It was more than just an issue of AA not giving the route
69 smoot4208 : Moscow saw a lot of increased capacity to North America in the last few years. Secondly, especially with AA's high costs, there is a BIG difference b
70 jfklganyc : "Um, no, they are not. AA has continued to grow in the Caribbean as it has replaced capacity from San Juan with capacity from the mainland. A few year
71 TOMMY767 : Ugh, yeah well, if they had their high costs negotiated AA could buy more planes and keep the high revenue markets that have been or are being cut. W
72 FutureUScapt : AA is significantly larger than DL at LAX any way you want to slice it: departures, seats, market share, etc.
73 TOMMY767 : I mean I understand in terms of seats that AA is but much of AA's LAX hub is a few point to point routes (MCO, EWR, IAD) a small eagle operation, LHR
74 styles9002 : Technically speaking, Bermuda is not part of the Caribbean.
75 SCL767 : This statement is false! This past Summer, AA operated MIA-KIN 4x daily, MIA-PAP 4x daily, MIA-PUJ 3x daily, MIA-CUR 2x daily, FLL-PAP 2x daily, MIA-
76 bobnwa : Your list does not say anything about whether the route was profitable or not. Again, let me say that airlines do not publish those kind of lists. So
77 TOMMY767 : Based on that list you can take a wild guess how routes are performing. Again, I don't know how AA's high labor costs affect such routings to the poi
78 AJMIA : I agree. The loss at SJU will turn into a gain at MIA and JFK. Too bad AA is so plane constrained that they have to abandon profitable flights to gro
79 mariner : I think it's good to see American rationalizing their network. mariner
80 WA707atMSP : Don't forget YYZ and BNA. AA also carries a lot of QF and CX connecting traffic from Australia, New Zealand, and HKG. To AA's credit, they have a con
81 TOMMY767 : Very true. DL is very consistent to Hawaii and Mexico (on a seasonal level) and while they do shift around in a lot of secondary markets from LAX, th
82 regupilot : For those of you don't don't quite understand this: SJU has become a local and some business traffic airport. It is not longer a feeder or hub or what
83 MAH4546 : A "few" point-to-point routes? It is 4 hub routes and 29 point-to-point routes. AA is bigger than DL at LAX in every single metric. And here's a metr
84 Post contains images AAR90 : This was the foregone future for AA at SJU the second day after AA purchased Eastern's MIA operation many many years ago. The first day after was the
85 TOMMY767 : 29 including Eagle yeah that makes sense. NOT 29 mainline point to point.
86 SJUSXM : LAX routes: AA: DFW/ORD/MIA/JFK- hubs SJU, EWR, BOS, IAD, BNA, MCO, STL, YYZ, SFO, LIH, KOA, HNL, OGG, NRT, LHR, LAS, SJD, AUS thats 18 mainline desti
87 bobnwa : So we do agree that there is no list from AA or any carrier that show route profit or loss, and any info on that subject on A.net is just a guess?
88 DFWEagle : You've missed out some routes in order to come to that incorrect tally. How about San Salvador? Reno? Vail? Santa Fe?
89 aajfksjubklyn : Downsizing AA in SJU has opened up many new opportunities with the many other islands that exist in the Carribean. In addition with AA and B6 agreeme
90 Post contains images PRAirbus : MIA's growth and nonstop services between MIA and the Caribbean also contribute to SJU's lack of importance as a major connecting hub at least for AA.
91 A388 : With all this downsizing in SJU is AA really abandoning SJU as a hub and focusing on focusing on their MIA hub operation? A388
92 chepos : SJU has not been a hub for AA for some years (some might have called it a focus city), but yes they are further downsizing the operation at SJU. Fligh
93 SCL767 : Then why is AA giving B6 gates at SJU? I would prefer to fly on an E90 between SJU and POS, PUJ, SDQ, SXM, etc. rather than on an ATR.
94 A388 : That's what I mean, is AA slowly abandoning SJU as a hub? They are giving gates to other airlines and cancelling routes(?) A388
95 SCL767 : AA's high costs are simply dragging on the airline's profits. Other U.S. carriers are making profits and AA's management has failed to realize that t
96 A388 : I didn't know it was getting that bad at AA. Looking at their fleet, it is very similar to most other U.S. major airlines. U.S. airlines are known to
97 SCL767 : AA has over 100 B752s. They usually go tech all the time and many of them are over 15 years old. South American airlines have learned this lesson and
98 Cubsrule : Is the drawdown at SJU about any of this stuff or is it about a combination of pointlessness and other priorities? Flying BOS-SJU-SDQ is pointless wh
99 A388 : I totally agree on this too. I have never flown on AA's 757's but reading the forum here over time the general review of the AA 757's is not that goo
100 1337Delta764 : AA is slowly refurbishing their 757 interiors with new seats with winged headrests, as well as replacing the overhead CRT monitors with overhead LCDs
101 SCL767 : Only time will tell, since this is AA's second "drawdown" at SJU. Yes, the a/c are needed elsewhere. MQ will continue to operate some routes which re
102 bobnwa : AA still has to officially order the 787 before they can recieve any.
103 GlobalCabotage : If I was at UA/CO HDQ in Chicago or Part-time HDQ in Houston, I would go after AA like they've never seen before at ORD.
104 SCL767 : Didn't AA defer their order until 2014? PAX arriving into South America on Air China, SAA and United Airlines are now eligible to purchase LAN's Sout
105 Cubsrule : Why? What weakness has AA shown in the past five years at ORD?
106 A388 : Yes I was thinking of that too but is the 787 a true 757 replacement and not more of a 767/A330 replacement? Just to avoid confusion I am wondering a
107 jfklganyc : "AA has absolutely grown in the Caribbean; by over 40% at MIA in the past eight years alone. But there is no point arguing with you, because you refus
108 SCL767 : It depends on the specific intentions and goals of the carrier that orders the B787s. For LAN, they will operate the B787s alongside their relatively
109 Cubsrule : Let me ask a different question: does it matter? If AA has lost market share in the Caribbean in the past five years, has AA lost the Caribbean? DL h
110 bobnwa : AA has more than held their own vs UA in the ORD market and everything points to them being the carrier of choice to the corporate travel purchasers.
111 Cubsrule : What do you mean by that?
112 bobnwa : I mean that AA has had greater success in signing corporate contracts than any other carrier out of ORD.
113 SCL767 : AA is popular in the Caribbean for many reasons. AA has been operating into certain Caribbean markets for over 20 years and most Caribbean customers
114 Cubsrule : Since you apparently have the numbers in front of you, why don't you tell us how UA and AA compare?
115 OA412 : How so? Do you have info that corroborates your claim? People bring this up all the time, yet don't you think that if DL felt that local advertising
116 SCL767 : Indeed, it reiterates DL's "we do not care" attitude to Caribbean nationals. Really? Then why did DL discontinue ATL-CUR, ATL-POS, ATL-TAB, JFK-KIN,
117 chepos : I would not call DL services into the Caribbean a disaster, CUR, POS and TAB are small markets from the US. TAB does not even have nonstops to MIA, so
118 flflyguy : It has been mentioned before, but bears repeating in some more detail. The only reason SJU was ever turned into a hub in the mid-to-late-80s, was that
119 AirlineExpert : Looking at capacity to/from the Caribbean for this December vs 5 years ago, AA's capacity is down 40% BUT that is right at the average amount of reduc
120 SCL767 : ATL-CUR and ATL-TAB received revenue guarantees so it was not an uphill battle for DL. KIN, POS, PUJ etc. are not small markets compared to ANU, CUR,
121 flflyguy : Point taken, but it's a little misleading because MIA doesn't count as "the Caribbean". Therefore, any extra flying we do in/out of MIA to connect to
122 Post contains images OA412 : Yeah that's exactly it. Perhaps because they were not profitable? Also, interestingly, you fail to mention all of the Caribbean routes that DL contin
123 SCL767 : And perhaps you are forgetting that the above mentioned routes ALL receive revenue guarantees; along with JFK-GEO.
124 GlobalCabotage : Look at ORD-Europe. AA has given all of this to Star except for LHR (granted, the most important route), but they've let Star own the market across th
125 FutureUScapt : Where is your source stating that all of the routes are revenue guaranteed? Some of your claims just don't add up from a common sense standpoint, and
126 Cubsrule : What purpose would that serve?
127 A388 : Doesn't NK also fly to AUA once weekly? I don't know how much of that story is actually true but for what it's worth it's a nice explanation flflyguy
128 Post contains links SCL767 : This information is widely available to the general public and is often discussed in newspapers, PRs, and the national budgets presented by MPs in th
129 flflyguy : I was there! I remember! It's true!
130 FutureUScapt : I still have a hard time believing that AUA provided DL revenue guarantees. Secondly, these revenue guarantees are often renewed on an annual/biennia
131 Post contains links SCL767 : And why is that? You would probably say the same about SXM and MBJ. Anyways, DAL received a cash subsidy of $3.3 billion Guyanese Dollars, (around 1.
132 usflyer msp : I would have trouble believing that as well. AUA/BGI/SXM/MBJ are well-developed tourist markets that are not hurting for lift to the mainland US unli
133 bobnwa : Other than knowing that AA leads UA in corporate contracts in Chicago, I do not have exact numbers as those figures are not published.
134 Cubsrule : ...which begs the question of how you know that if you don't have the numbers.
135 Post contains images PRAirbus : Southwest finally entering SJU by buying AIRTRAN; more low costs to Puerto Rico. No wonder the majors like AA are pulling away!!! The Caribbean will n
136 bobnwa : Through contacts with members of such organizations as NBTA, and personal associations with Corporate Sales Managers with both corporations and airli
137 Frostbite : The link you provided only makes this statement: Government will continue to work closely with airline operators to ensure maintenance and expansion,
138 Cubsrule : But without numbers, how can you possibly know the veracity of your assertion?
139 SCL767 : Once again, DL's JFK-GEO service is subsidized by the Guyanese Government. The actual transaction occurred "behind the scenes" in 2008 and created a
140 bobnwa : Well if you were in a conversation with airline corporate sales managers after a NBTA function and the AA sales manager was being congratulated for b
141 ckfred : You would rather fly Spirit, rather than AA. Spirit charges you for carry on bags that don't fit under the seat. AA isn't what it was 10 or 20 years
142 Cubsrule : But AA does not have a competitive schedule to many business destinations ex-ORD. That's why I'm confused.
143 Santi319 : I beg to differ!!! I dare to say that NK imternational success in FLL is partly because a lot of people avoid AA or MIA in general... NK Internationa
144 bobnwa : I would say AA has a competitive schedule to NYC,LAX,LHR,BOS, NRT, CLT, PHL, DCA, SEA, SFO, DFW, MIA, LAX, IAH, PHX, and BDL, Not the best schedule i
145 PRAirbus : AA and NK cannot be compared...it's like comparing apples and oranges. NK's customer base is VERY different than AA's; take a look at the type of pass
146 Cubsrule : How does AA have the "best complete schedule" at ORD?
147 guyanam : JFK GEO does NOT receive revenue guarantees. Maybe landing fee waivers and fuel subsidies, Nothing more. The fcat that the Govt of GY is looking for a
148 SCL767 : Why do you have a hard time believing that Guyana subsidises this route? I did not state that the Guyanese Government approached B6. Because DL would
149 flymia : The main and ONLY reason people chose NK over AA is price. NK carries a much different clientele then AA does. Exactly! I flew NK once two years ago
150 bobnwa : Depends on the corporate account they are negotiating with. If the corporation has lot of traffic to LHR,NYC,and BOS then using AA to other cities wi
151 Cubsrule : Correct. And if they have a lot of traffic to LAX, DCA, and GRU, then UA is the best. That's why I'm having trouble seeing why AA would do better tha
152 GlobalCabotage : AA may have some corporate contracts out of Chicago that UA wants, but frequency and service will rule in the end. AA is playing second fiddle to UA a
153 Jungersten : These planes will be used for international expansion, specifically out of JFK in the spring and summer of 2011, routes to be announced by the end of
154 FlyASAGuy2005 : They are pretty terrible. Indeed. Example is I have quite a few family members that have tried them on for size down in FLL. Some still fly them but
155 bobnwa : Could be that the corporate sales team at AA is better at their job than the team at UA and have been for quite a while. Or it could be that AA is wi
156 airlineexpert : AA won many of UA's corporate contracts during the long period when UA was in bankrutpcy and turning around. Let's be honest that UA has finally retur
157 WA707atMSP : And, of course, AA's decision to add LGA-MSP / CLT / ATL is designed to keep their corporate contracts. Anyone working on Madison Avenue or Wall Stre
158 N737AA : We have a winner, with the MIA construction basically complete it will be the gateway to the Caribbean.
159 TOMMY767 : AA had mainline on LGA-ATL/MSP back in 2007 and retracted them in 2008. There was over a year where there were no nonstops on AA between LGA and ATL/
160 guyanam : Delta flies JFK and GEO ALL Year. Their planes have good loads ALL year. They have good yields ALL year. fares in the $650-800 range even now which i
161 DFWEagle : A fourth daily JFK-SJU has now been loaded, along with some re-timing to the other three flights. As it stands now, the schedule next summer in the JF
162 luckyone : AirTran flies to a grand total of four Caribbean destinations. One of which is SJU, a domestic flight. Southwest flies to zero. jetBlue and Spirit bo
163 flyiguy : If I recall, didnt PR ask WN to open up shop there and use it as a "Hub"...might happen now with FL in the picture... B6 already flies this route fro
164 Post contains images jfklganyc : " AA769 JFK 0730 SJU 1130 757 AA1357 JFK 0930 SJU 1335 757 AA1635 JFK 1305 SJU 1710 757 AA1639 JFK 2030 SJU 0035+ 757 AA648 SJU 0815 JFK 1205 757 AA14
165 Lawair : FL responded to AA's BWI-SJU cut but going 2x daily on the route starting in April.
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