Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Suspends LAX-RDU  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11575 times:

Delta will suspend Raleigh-Los Angeles on November 30th, right after the Thanksgiving holiday. The flight was removed from the GDS over night. The flight does show as resuming in March, but whether that is the actual plan or if that is just lazy scheduling (i.e. last week it was shown as being suspended for just three weeks in December), I do not know.


a.
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11446 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):

Plan is to bring it back.....at least that is what that department said. (now will that be the case? who knows)

Also may be a mis-load into GDS....should end in DEC not NOV. (but again, it could be right.... im just saying Delta put out this week)



yep.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11389 times:

Yeah well BDL was cut earlier ending this coming week.

Some other LAX markets trims for now are:
LAX-IND becomes 4x weekly - Mo/Th/Fr/Su
LAX-CMH becomes 3x weekly -Th/Fr/Su
LAX-TPA becomes 5x weekly – Mo/We/Th/Fr/Su

A couple weeks back I also heard a rumor about LAX-FLL going bye-bye but have not seen anything formal yet.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11346 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
A couple weeks back I also heard a rumor about LAX-FLL going bye-bye but have not seen anything formal yet.

I feel like delta has operated that route for years!



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11325 times:

To add to this:

LAX-GDL will not resume in December (was previously set to be 1 daily - perhaps this was just a default schedule though)

LAS-FLL/MCO will be discontinued as well (this were previously scheduled to be cut in Nov, but are now shown as discontinued all the way through the end of February).


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11291 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 3):
I feel like delta has operated that route for years!

True, but now have 3 LCCs to fight on the route -- B6 / NK / VX.
Results can't be pretty.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11255 times:

I wonder what is DL's logic with start/stop routes out of LA? Were the loads not good? The time would be a bit less than great, but so what?

Is DL cutting RDU or adding something else? I keep wondering if DL will add RDU - Cancun. Cancun seems to be almost a focus city!

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11161 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 6):
I wonder what is DL's logic with start/stop routes out of LA? Were the loads not good? The time would be a bit less than great, but so what?

Got me there. I flew IND-LAX in July and that flight was packed to the gills.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1322 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11019 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
LAX-IND becomes 4x weekly - Mo/Th/Fr/Su
LAX-CMH becomes 3x weekly -Th/Fr/Su

While these are the only non-stops in their respective markets, a red-eye and 3-4 weekly flights seems very hard to capture much business travel.


User currently offlinelambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2081 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10870 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 7):
Got me there. I flew IND-LAX in July and that flight was packed to the gills.

Yeah. Los Angeles in the summer is going to have strong loads from about anywhere.

It's just hard to believe that a metro the size of Indianapolis can't support a daily to LAX. I believe they are the only carrier on it, perhaps Air Tran is flying it but I'm not sure.

As for Raleigh, the routes out west have never really performed well. I believe UA to Denver was pulled, along with AA to SJC several years ago (terrible idea to begin with), SLC being dropped on DL, and now this. It might be time for a LCC to try it and see what happens.


User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10868 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 6):
I wonder what is DL's logic with start/stop routes out of LA? Were the loads not good? The time would be a bit less than great, but so what?

The logic with these flights (with the exception of the long-time withstanding LAX-TPA) is that this is simply utilization flying where nearly all of the expenses associated with the flights are variable. So long as the price of fuel remains reasonable and the DL can fill the planes, the flying will remain. If either one of those conditions changes too much, then it starts to make more sense to just leave the plane parked at RDU,BDL,etc overnight. This is why you see DL flying these routes in the summer season when demand is strongest, but not in the off-peak days/season when the demand isn't there.

Simply stated, this flying is in no way integral to DL's network and can and will be added/dropped as conditions warrant.


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10653 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 6):

Is DL cutting RDU or adding something else? I keep wondering if DL will add RDU - Cancun. Cancun seems to be almost a focus city!

Delta is cutting RDU till March, but is adding LAX-PHX starting in march also. Also a 2nd daily MSY is starting at some point but as said above RDU/CMH/BDL are so 737s are sitting on the ground over night..... I don't really get why Delta isn't trying to re-time them for SYD and or NRT but I don't understand half the crap Delta does.

Quoting lambertman (Reply 9):

It's just hard to believe that a metro the size of Indianapolis can't support a daily to LAX. I believe they are the only carrier on it, perhaps Air Tran is flying it but I'm not sure.
DL is the only carrier on it.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 10):
(with the exception of the long-time withstanding LAX-TPA)

has been going 5w for the last 2-3 years at least. Thats not really new.

Question....when are you seeing TPA 5w? I show daily all the way to March(I do see a week or two here and there with some days gone but 9 times out of 10 its daily)..........


Also note RDU comes back on 3/3

[Edited 2010-09-25 15:25:22]


yep.
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10596 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
I don't really get why Delta isn't trying to re-time them for SYD and or NRT but I don't understand half the crap Delta does.

I don't know how DL does the aircraft rotating but if you look at schedules it can get crazy. I feel like equipment types on routes like EWR-MSP change week by week between 319, 320, CR9, 738, M88, M90 and 757.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10516 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 12):

I don't know how DL does the aircraft rotating but if you look at schedules it can get crazy. I feel like equipment types on routes like EWR-MSP change week by week between 319, 320, CR9, 738, M88, M90 and 757.

LAX is just as bad.

One week MCO/FLL/TPA/MSY will be all 320 then it will be mixed the next week then it'll be all 737 the next week.....they have started to most keep it on the 737 now but it shifted ALOT this summer.

But the one i like the most is LAX-SFO

right now
LAX-SFO is 1x 737 1x 320 2x CR9
SFO-LAX is 2x 320 2x CR9

Then when it goes 5x daily it will be
LAX-SFO 2x 737 1x 320 2x CR9
SFO-LAX 2x 320 3x CR9.


One good thing about American...they may not have any guts at all for starting new routes....but they don't seem to change stuff around ANYTHING like Delta does.                     



yep.
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10501 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):

One good thing about American...they may not have any guts at all for starting new routes....but they don't seem to change stuff around ANYTHING like Delta does.

Yes it's true. I flew ATL-EWR a few months back and It was supposed to be an M90 but changed at the last second to an M88. I was super pissed off but the f/a was great and got me very drunk up in first class so I had a great flight anyway.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10482 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):

has been going 5w for the last 2-3 years at least. Thats not really new.

That was precisely my point: That LAX-TPA is the exception to all the aforementioned routes. It is the one route that is not typically a redeye and it is also the one route that has been consistently flown by DL for ages.

As to its frequency, it operates X26 during at least some parts of December. I didn't check to see how long that lasts; it could just be during the lull between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
Also note RDU comes back on 3/3

But that is clearly just a default schedule that far out. It may or may not be true, but the schedule is not that accurate that far into the future.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10253 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):
right now
LAX-SFO is 1x 737 1x 320 2x CR9
SFO-LAX is 2x 320 2x CR9

Then when it goes 5x daily it will be
LAX-SFO 2x 737 1x 320 2x CR9
SFO-LAX 2x 320 3x CR9.


One good thing about American...they may not have any guts at all for starting new routes....but they don't seem to change stuff around ANYTHING like Delta does.
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 14):
Yes it's true. I flew ATL-EWR a few months back and It was supposed to be an M90 but changed at the last second to an M88. I was super pissed off but the f/a was great and got me very drunk up in first class so I had a great flight anyway.

It has been DL's strategy for qutie a few years now and it seems to work. One week a market will see a mix of 738s and CR9s and the very next week it may very well be MD88s and CR7s with a CRJ thrown in. If the tweaking maximizes a/c usage and "right=sizes" as the markets demand then    . It may piss a.net folks off that they booked a 738 but ended up on an A320 but so long as they can fit all their F passengersalready booked in cabin they are fine  



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5221 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10117 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):


LAX-IND becomes 4x weekly - Mo/Th/Fr/Su
LAX-CMH becomes 3x weekly -Th/Fr/Su

Seems to me the logical thing to do would be to operate daily CMH-IND-LAX v.v. during the slow months.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlinelambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2081 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10052 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):
One good thing about American...they may not have any guts at all for starting new routes....but they don't seem to change stuff around ANYTHING like Delta does.

I'm not sure why that's a bad thing about starting routes. Their cost structure is so prohibitive they simply can't make money flying anything other than ex-MIA, DFW, ORD, JFK, etc. American has dropped a number of routes, STL-SFO/SEA included, that other majors picked right up and should have no problem operating profitably. Sometimes I wonder what their route structure would look like had Ch. 11 happened in 05 (I think that was the year).

So other than appeasing the people who follow aviation, American is doing what it can to stay profitable.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
DL is the only carrier on it.

Remarkable. Perhaps WN will start flying it. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be served at least daily. Major props to IND for their new terminal which is a truly beautiful facility, but celebrating new flights to Branson isn't exactly great work. I'm not certainly not impressed at their ability to bring in new flights.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2263 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9884 times:

Quoting lambertman (Reply 9):
It's just hard to believe that a metro the size of Indianapolis can't support a daily to LAX.

Before deregulation, TWA flew L-1011s LAX-IND. I think AA and US have also flown LAX-IND nonstop in the past.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9739 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 4):

LAX-GDL will not resume in December (was previously set to be 1 daily - perhaps this was just a default schedule though)

This one I don't understand. DL has been flying this since they merged with WA. This is sad and doesn't make any sense, especially since MX's demise, the demand is even stronger than it already was.

Quoting lambertman (Reply 9):

It's just hard to believe that a metro the size of Indianapolis can't support a daily to LAX. I believe they are the only carrier on it, perhaps Air Tran is flying it but I'm not sure.

FL does fly this but am not sure if it's year round.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9707 times:

This has come up before regarding aircraft utilization a few months back, but I think it's best for DL if they effectively want to compete in these secondary markets from LAX they need to offer morning departures. AA and UA do this on their routes from LAX to the east, DL does the red eye out and early evening return. If Delta tried RDU and IND leaving LAX early morning and return early evening like they do with MCO and TPA I think they would get better results.


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1080 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9642 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 6):
Is DL cutting RDU or adding something else? I keep wondering if DL will add RDU - Cancun. Cancun seems to be almost a focus city!

Well, they've been flying RDU-CUN the last couple of years Saturday only (suspended seasonally right now, I believe).


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1445 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9602 times:

Someone on here, without getting catty or such, has to be able to explain in a professional way the philosophy of "route network development/airplane utilization" at DL for some of us.

Something seems to work for DL. However, if I were a FF with DL, and I get promo flyers in the mail or emails announcing a new route, only for it to be gone within months, I would shrug and move on, yet, in the back of my head I would remember DL's "reliability/consistency" with this stuff.

Why pull in/pull out? Why not stay and see what happens over time when your local population actually KNOW you are flying a certain route?
They have the LAX gateway. You need some feed. Competition will always be there, you just need a certain level of commitment. I don't see that now. (e.g: MIA-LAX, even though AA rules on it, why would 2X/day be so destructive for DL? Just do it so you can cater to your own FF's first and also start building through your alliance, SkyTeam in this case. I'm sure faithful AF/Flying Blue customers living in MIA may want to use DL's flight to LAX, if it was offered.)
"Network strength" should be a holistic endeavor. You win on some routes, you lose a bit on others but as a whole, you'd have a "complete" network. You'd think DL, UA, AA are after this by now.

I fully understand a timetable, especially one the size of DL, cannot be static. There are constant changes. But some of this seems "questionable" to an amateur like me. What is the true professional approach/explanation/culture at DL for this? I don't remember these "constant variables of this degree" at (much smaller and different) NW at all.

There has to be a reasonable answer to DL's approach.
I don't think ADHD (or darts  Smile ) is the correct answer here. Considering DL's successes, they are smart and shrewd. So I expect a decent explanation as to the philosophy of it all.

[Edited 2010-09-25 17:34:02]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinevgnatl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9112 times:

The RDU website has a recent news article about DL adding 5 new cities out of RDU. Maybe this was some sort of compromise; sort of a cut one route in favor of trying a few new ones? Either way, it seems DL is growing the RDU service (even if this LAX service doesn't come back).

http://rdu.com/news/2010/release_082510.htm



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
25 davescj : OK, BOS, JFK and MSP make sense. BOS is a focus city, JFK and MSP are hubs. Hartford -- seems to be working at becoming a focus city. But STL on a CRJ
26 mallthus : Although I can understand why this route has made sense for so long, I think this decision is probably driven by a combination of things. First (and
27 deltal1011man : Default starts on 3/21.....as I have said before, The memo on the employee site says it will start back in march and is being cut during the slow mon
28 TOMMY767 : BDL was much larger for DL 10 years ago. Now it's a spoke city with a few point to point routes. LAS and LAX are toast from BDL as well.
29 smoot4208 : It has also been answered many times before as well....DL and other airlines have better ways to utilize their assets. They use the aircraft for rout
30 lambertman : I don't know why you would be impressed. I'm sure your familiar with STL lineage and DL's role in it. STL and RDU are new markets they've identified
31 ERJ170 : RDU has traditionally been a "pseudo" focus for Delta.. they frequently tried routes from RDU every once in a while to tes the waters.. STL is realis
32 AirlineExpert : A few notes from above: - Airlines that wish to make money remove capacity when it is not needed. For years, DL had the most "stable" schedules - year
33 davescj : Well, I guess I should be more specific. I'm not impressed with STL airport in general, but that's another discourse. What would help DL in STL: a go
34 ERJ170 : Just to note, neither RDU BDL CMH nor IND have a premium line either and only RDU has the SC club.. so I wouldn't say those are necessary to help the
35 michman : IND SC is scheduled to open late this year. STL is rumored to be getting an SC lite.
36 ERJ170 : I'd wait for the official announcement about the "SC Lite" first.. I still haven't heard any word from DL about it..
37 lambertman : They've done a bit of new advertising in St. Louis (Edward Jones Dome, billboards here and there, and radio I believe), so they are clearly making a
38 davescj : IND has a SkyPriority line according to DL website. ELP is not listed, but in fact does have one also. Just what is SC Lite anyway? Is the current clu
39 Tan Flyr : Should be doable! [ I don't recall LAX nonstop from IND, one stop in either ORD or DFW, yes. ( AA181 at one time was a DC10 IND-ORD-LAX) YUP....lived
40 Post contains images laca773 : . I think a re-timing might help this as well.
41 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : As usual the same people who go absolutely CRAZY anytime you mention the fact that DL at LAX will cut service are silent when they actually do. DL wil
42 Post contains images jetlanta : Delta is cutting frequencies in literally dozens of markets across ALL hubs and focus markets to fund a massive amount of aircraft mods this winter a
43 WA707atMSP : AA was awarded LAX-IND (and LAX-DAY / CMH / CVG) in 1978. I think they flew LAX-IND nonstops for a few months before switching back to their traditio
44 rbgso : I think most if not all of the five new cities are CRJ200s, so it seems they are cutting mainline and adding connection service.
45 MNMncrcnwjr : It is the a/c rationalization program DL has a diverse fleet that allows them to match a/c to loads for optimal yield management. STL is seeing the s
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
HND Awarded To Delta (DTW, LAX) HA (HNL), AA (JFK) posted Fri May 7 2010 12:14:05 by nwafan20
Delta Suspends Pilot Charged In Plane Assault posted Thu Nov 12 2009 15:01:11 by 71Zulu
Delta Suspends NRT - Ho Chi Minh City posted Thu Nov 12 2009 12:31:40 by CokePopper
Delta Ends LAX-GDL posted Fri Mar 27 2009 18:35:25 by LAXintl
Delta Suspends MCO-MEX posted Thu Oct 30 2008 11:04:00 by MAH4546
Delta Ending LAX-BOS/BDL posted Sat Jun 14 2008 01:12:43 by MAH4546
United Suspends LAX-MEX For 3mos. posted Fri May 30 2008 21:11:45 by LAXintl
JetBlue Suspends LAX Startup From JFK And BOS posted Mon May 5 2008 17:24:31 by JRodriguez136
Delta Starts LAX-LIH And LAX-KOA June 2008 posted Tue Oct 23 2007 07:25:07 by Panamair
Delta GDL-LAX Question... posted Fri May 25 2007 09:48:13 by BruinSkiiz