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Aeroflot And Boeing - Two 787s And Possible 777s  
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3012 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 9752 times:

Searched the forums, but couldn't find any posted topics.

According to the press release dated 21SEPT10, Aeroflot has signed a memorandum with Boeing to work on possibly taking delivery of two Boeing 787 Dreamliners in time for the Sochi Olympic Games in 2014. In the interim, however, SU is also exploring the option of on-boarding a few 777s to increase capacity until the 787s start to roll in.

It seems to me Aeroflot is really starting to want a capacity increase for the fleet. While 22 A350s and 22 787s are already on order for the company - they wouldn't be delivered in time for the games. The two companies are working to expediate the production and delivery slots.

Press release in Russian only:

http://www.aeroflot.ru/cms/new/7183

Aeroflot777

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 887 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
It seems to me Aeroflot is really starting to want a capacity increase for the fleet.

Can we expect some new routes from SU? Or are these additional aircraft more for increasing capacity on established routes?



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlineAviacsa737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 9581 times:

Boeing is going to have to do something as a stop gap. A lot of airlines Aeroflot included WERE relying on Boeing to, you know, actually live up to its commitments regarding the 787 time line and be competant. Clearly this hasnt happened. As Aeroflot seems to be in a good position for growth right now, im not surprised. I would like to see a 777 in its colors again, thats for sure. I suppose Boeing is lucky SU isnt pulling what some of the more testy airlines are doing, what with threatening cancelation and such. I hope to see the 777 and 787 in SU colors asap.

User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 9490 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
In the interim, however, SU is also exploring the option of on-boarding a few 777s to increase capacity until the 787s start to roll in.

Didn't SU return the 777s they had a several years ago because they were too much capacity? Has SU really grown so much they need it again?



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12799 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 9434 times:
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Quoting c5load (Reply 3):
Didn't SU return the 777s they had a several years ago because they were too much capacity?

I believe it was more to do with having such a small (as in 2) fleet.

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Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3012 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 9433 times:

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 1):
Can we expect some new routes from SU?

I would definitely expect so. SU pulled out of a lot of markets because of the re-branding plans. With 44 long-haul planes coming on board - expansion is definitely in the works over the years.

Quoting Aviacsa737 (Reply 2):

Couldn't have said it better myself. Boeing needs to get its act together - SU is only asking for a small favor at this point.

Quoting c5load (Reply 3):
Didn't SU return the 777s they had a several years ago because they were too much capacity? Has SU really grown so much they need it again?

No, no, no. That is one very common misconception I've been trying to debunk for ages - but no one seems to understand no matter how many times i write this.

Aeroflot only had 2 777s in the fleet. They were truly workhorses of the fleet - a mere 2 airframes performing flights to SEA, SFO, JFK, LHR, PEK, and making their occasional appearances in Austria during the ski season.

Logistically, the planes were nightmares for the airline. A lot of resources were used to train and sustain a few crews that were trained on the planes. Any delays and the entire network was under pressure. The 777s simply had to go - especially since re-branding was in the works and fleet simplification was the common priority. SU moved towards employing the 763s on long-haul flights and pulled out of markets to be able to sustain this until an alternative came along. 22 787s and 22 350s were ordered and now Airbus is leasing 330s in the interim as well.

It was all part of a strategy, one that is finally coming into play right now.


User currently offlineAviacsa737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 9227 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 5):
Boeing needs to get its act together - SU is only asking for a small favor at this point.


I think SU is being very reasonable considering the numbers of 787's they have on order. Ive seen airlines with far less planes on order threaten Boeing with cancellation and what not. But then SU has always been generally reasonable when dealing with the manufacturers. The leats Boeing can do is find them some 777's as a stop gap and help with the logistics of maintaining that sub fleet

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 5):
A lot of resources were used to train and sustain a few crews that were trained on the planes.


Yeah, the 777 is not an easy plane to maintain a sub fleet of. If you've got one or two and nothing else but Boeing, its fine,but if, like SU you had older Boeing's, Airbus and more, it adds a whole extra dimension to the cost structure. Especially seeing as the 777 and 767 don't share all that much in commonality. If and when i can ever afford to visit Russia, id like it to be on a SU 777   So I'm hoping Boeing can AT LEAST come through on finding them some.


User currently offlinePutnik From Brazil, joined Aug 2007, 229 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 9206 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 5):
I would definitely expect so. SU pulled out of a lot of markets because of the re-branding plans. With 44 long-haul planes coming on board - expansion is definitely in the works over the years.

I fail to understand what re-branding has to do with routes SU flies on and 777s. I understand the fleet simplification and the logistical nightmare only two 777 in the fleet can bring. Can you please be more specific on the re-branding issue?



LH504 - we always remember our first :)
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 9204 times:

Quoting Aviacsa737 (Reply 6):
I think SU is being very reasonable considering the numbers of 787's they have on order. Ive seen airlines with far less planes on order threaten Boeing with cancellation and what not. But then SU has always been generally reasonable when dealing with the manufacturers. The leats Boeing can do is find them some 777's as a stop gap and help with the logistics of maintaining that sub fleet

Considering the Chinese Airlines were meant to get their 787s in time for the 2008 olympics, I think Aeroflot is just being silly asking for their's by 2012....lol

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3012 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months ago) and read 9084 times:

Quoting Putnik (Reply 7):
I fail to understand what re-branding has to do with routes SU flies on and 777s. I understand the fleet simplification and the logistical nightmare only two 777 in the fleet can bring. Can you please be more specific on the re-branding issue?

It's pretty simple to understand. SU flew to many destinations in North and South America that it no longer sustains. Those operations were live when SU operated IL-62s, IL-86s, TU-134s, TU-154s, B737s, B777s and a few Yaks. None of those planes are longer in the fleet. There was some serious fleet shuffle when all long-haul flights were switched to ONLY B763s and IL-96s. A lot of domestic flights needed new aircraft, and apart from onboarding the A320 family, SU switched to using the 767 and IL-96 on domestic legs as well. Fleet simplification was part of the multi-process re-branding that was going on internally. Branding doesn't solely consist of external marketing efforts and liveries. It's only the tip of the iceberg.

There is no way in hell the airline would be able to handle all previously served markets - so it simply had to slash the less performing cities. Look at LAX, still not really a money-maker, but still makes its appearance on the route map.

The future for SU will be interesting, we just need to wait and see.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6959 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8921 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 5):
and now Airbus is leasing 330s in the interim as well.

Can you clarify this? The first batch of A330s are being leased from AerCap. But the recent order was a direct purchase from Airbus, wasn't it? Where does "Airbus is leasing 330s in the interim" come from?


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
in time for the Sochi Olympic Games in 2014.

Maybe this is for non-av, but here in YVR we have heard that things are not going too well with the preparation and there may be a bit of a Delhi and the commonwealth games situation, so Vancouver and Whistler is to be on standby to re-host the games here again in case things do not improve at Sochi.

Anyway, its good for SU to be pro-active. I would imagine these aircraft would be short term leases, specifically for the games? Maybe to provide a shuttle service from SVO to Sochi.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3012 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8568 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Can you clarify this?

My apologies - extremely poor wording. That's what happens when I post right after rolling out of bed on a Sunday morning. I meant to say this is why Aeroflot even began the search for the A330s in the first place. They needed more long-haul frames. After the first few, it seems that SU is pretty happy with the product. They we're originally meant to fill the gaps before the 787/350 order came in. Plus onboard service on the 330s is way above anything the 767/IL-96s can ever offer at this point. Who knows what will happen to the 763s eventually - however it is strongly rumored they will be making their departure as soon as the replacements come in.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 11):
Maybe this is for non-av, but here in YVR we have heard that things are not going too well with the preparation

I'd go as far as saying that is massive speculation on Canada's part - or wishful thinking for a second round. As far as I know (my gramps is part of the olympic committee/sport federation in Russia) everything is going well. The area is undergoing a lot of construction at this point - while that maybe behind schedule... I'm sure it will be done. Once again, time will tell.

Great resource for updates and news:

http://sochi2014.com/en/

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6959 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8470 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 12):
I meant to say this is why Aeroflot even began the search for the A330s in the first place.

Ah, I see. No problem!   


User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7768 times:

great news, Aeroflot777!

I am just wodering what number of 777 we are talking about?
How many aircraft of a type should in the fleet not be "stand alone"?
Any preliminary information about -200, -300?

Can't wait to see SU livery on my favorite twin jet!


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6710 times:

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 14):

I'd expect to see them look very closely at the CX 772As and some of the SQ 772ERs as interim lift.

CX's leased A343s would be attractive for them also, I would think.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineivo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6410 times:

New 777 for Aeroflot could be maintained around the world thru the SkyTeam- members:
Aeromexico, Air France/KLM, Alitalia, China Southern, Delta, Korean Air, Vietnam AL, and Kenya AW.

Ivo


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
SU is also exploring the option of on-boarding a few 777s

Very interesting move by SU and can't wait to see the awesome T7 sport the SU scheme 
Quoting c5load (Reply 3):
Didn't SU return the 777s they had a several years ago because they were too much capacity? Has SU really grown so much they need it again?

Yes, as mentioned below SU had 2 B777's however due to the complexity of the fleet the aircraft didn't provide SU what they really needed at the time, a simplified fleet... SU have certainly done a fantastic job with the rebranding and simplifying the fleet which is operated today...

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 5):
Logistically, the planes were nightmares for the airline. A lot of resources were used to train and sustain a few crews that were trained on the planes. Any delays and the entire network was under pressure. The 777s simply had to go - especially since re-branding was in the works and fleet simplification was the common priority. SU moved towards employing the 763s on long-haul flights and pulled out of markets to be able to sustain this until an alternative came along. 22 787s and 22 350s were ordered and now Airbus is leasing 330s in the interim as well.

It was all part of a strategy, one that is finally coming into play right now.

It certainly paid off... I remember flying SU to Lisbon, Portugal in 1987... The SU you see today certainly is in a league of its own when compared to the carrier I flew in 87!!! EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

And what could be that bad in 1987?
Besides ideological stuff.
I flew SU on international routes by the time.
Flight attendants were young anfd pretty and smiling.
Food was great. Smoking was allowed.
No IFE - but it was decades ago.
Just wondering what aircraft was on SVO-LIS? It's quite a long drive.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3947 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4131 times:
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Quoting pylon101 (Reply 18):
Just wondering what aircraft was on SVO-LIS?

In 1987, Aeroflot had not yet Western built aircraft in its fleet, since Russia was still Soviet Union under communist regime.

I would say the aircraft was either a TU-154, IL-62 or IL-86, one of the three. The TU-134 didn't have enough range to fly the route nonstop and the IL-96 didn't exist then, I'm not even sure the 154 could fly SVO-LIS nonstop. If you recall what the seating arrangement was then maybe I can help you a little bit more.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

That was why I was asking.
This distance could not be made by TU-154B2. And TU-154M did exist by then.
So non-stop it could be only IL-62M.

I will try to find old SU schedules on the Web. Interesting question.


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
In the interim, however, SU is also exploring the option of on-boarding a few 777s to increase capacity until the 787s start to roll in.

Very interesting, I guess these 777 would be maintained then as well as the 767s in AMS? However I first need to see this happen. With favorable lease rates I can see this happening, markets are there definitely.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
Considering the Chinese Airlines were meant to get their 787s in time for the 2008 olympics, I think Aeroflot is just being silly asking for their's by 2012....lol

2014 is 4 years away.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 19):
I would say the aircraft was either a TU-154, IL-62 or IL-86, one of the three. The TU-134 didn't have enough range to fly the route nonstop and the IL-96 didn't exist then, I'm not even sure the 154 could fly SVO-LIS nonstop.

Tu-154 easily has the legs for it, ILW most likely didn't (depend on config)



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

Last time I flew SVO-MAD in 2005 on TU-154M.
And it was almost full 5 hours. It was end January and head wind was all the way long.
So TU-154B2 hardly could do SVO-LIS non-stop. Just a guess.
Say, KJS-DME at the time was about 4 hours with head winds.
Gosh, it appears to be not so long ago - but feels like a an era ago.


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 20):
And TU-154M did exist by then.
So non-stop it could be only IL-62M.

Eh? The Tu-154M was available in 1987 right?

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 20):
I will try to find old SU schedules on the Web. Interesting question.

Interesting, did you find something?



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Right, right. 154M flew in 1987 already.
We can assume it could be it on SVO-LIS route.

No. Russian sources are poor. And there is a great international site which requires memebership.
We better wait until the guy who flew this route and raised the question would come back.
Baby, come back!!!


25 Post contains links and images EK413 : Where should I start... Cabin was filled with smoke... Your lucky to see a few feet ahead of you due to large amount of smoke!!! Flight attendants we
26 pylon101 : Hm... are you sure that those guys with guns were in Russia? Custom officers with rifles? Just try to recall, EK413. As the picture you gave us did n
27 Post contains images Aeroflot777 : That's a great question. One that interests me a lot as well. I can't see it being a huge number because more planes are already on order, but at the
28 Post contains images Aleksandar : Hello, how are you? It is already interesting. It seems that SU product is getting better and better according to recent reviews, but there is still a
29 pylon101 : Aeroflot777, I used ask this simple question - and can not get an answer. When a Russian airline finally gets its own Airbus or Boeing - owned, and no
30 EK413 : Yes, I was 6 years of age at the time and I certainly wouldnt make a story up just for the sake it! Probably wasnt the custom officers, but certainly
31 EK413 : From memory the routing I flew was if I recall correct... QF B762ER SYD-KUL SU BOM-SVO-LIS-SVO-BOM QF B762ER KUL-SYD Not bad for a 6 year old EK413
32 pylon101 : EK413, Don't take offense. The story with "guys with rifles" just doesn't match experience of any of Russian a.netter here on the forum. Like they cou
33 Post contains links and images EK413 : This is 100% from memory the type I flew too... View Large View MediumPhoto © Wolfgang MendorfView Large View MediumPhoto © Petr Popelar Sorry for f
34 pylon101 : Then it could be IL-62M on BOM-SVO sector and TU-154M on SVO-LIS. It's quite probable. We don't have 1987 schedules. I am wodering why airlines ignore
35 Post contains images PlymSpotter : That is something I would love to see, perhaps in a Wiki fashion. To some extent it is possible to search the recent history of routes thanks to Wiki
36 Post contains images EK413 : Cheers I have attempted to google the 87' routings for SU but without any success... I will continue to dig up information... EK413
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