Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Southwest To Purchase AirTran: Part 2  
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21786 times:

For the sake of those with slow connections, or on their phones; and the fact that the original has over 300 replies, I thought a part 2 might be in order.

Cheers!
Anthony/Airport

232 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21800 times:

I wonder what WN will do at DCA. I imagine they will keep DCA-ATL, and add DCA-MDW to start.

It's going to be weird having jetBlue and Southwest at DCA soon!


User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21702 times:

I think WN is super stoked about DCA.. they haven't been too quiet about their desire to enter that airport. Slots were always the pacing item.


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineKHPN From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21660 times:

This news was the motivation I needed to finally upgrade to premium so forgive me as its my first post..
But does this mean we'll be seeing some WN metal here at HPN as FL has a competitively large presence here with flights to ATL MCO and PBI. Or would HPN be on the cut list?


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21656 times:

Could someone link to the previous thread for reference? I don't know how to do that.

I definately couldn't see this coming. It wasn't that long ago they were taking some serious jabs at each other (like the ads with the WN baggage workers flashing "Bags fly free" at an FL plane and then FL's tounge-in-cheek fake ad with the people dressed in cow suits).

Should this go through, BOS-BWI will be down to two carriers in a very short time.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21662 times:

What would happen to the international routes?


nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21617 times:

Atlwest - I was unable to reply to your last post on the original thread, but I just hope this consolidation doesn't drive fares up even higher (esp. with "LFCs") than they already are now. I'm banking on the fact of WN's perceived lower fares driving a recovery of business at my home airport soon. I just hope that will actually turn out to be the case!


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5436 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21615 times:

I though of this in response to another thread but it is relevant here as well:

Quote:
Q: What about assigned seats?
A: As you know, Southwest does not assign seats. AirTran does offer seat assignments including Business class and Coach. Upon full integration, it is our intent to have a consistent product offering. It is our intent that seat assignments would not be part of that product.
Quote:
Q: What about dual class service?
A: As you know, Southwest offers one class of service. AirTran offers Business class and Coach. Upon full integration, it is our intent to have a consistent product offering. It is our intent that dual class service would not be part of that product.

To me the ever interesting part are the words "it is our intent" which means it is possible that a change may occur if it makes business sense.

Now I don't see Southwest doing away with their "no assigned seating" policy or adding a new class of service but if they have have a bunch of planes with two types of seats, and it will take some time to change them out, who's to say they don't experiment and see what happens with the sales of their Business Select product with these seats available?

You could still have the service be the exact same and no assigned seating but if you choose Business Select they will be pretty much yours (for A1-A12 boarding group for sure). They would have to figure out how that might work (they'll have to do that anyway) and perhaps add a new business select group but some people may absolutely be willing to pay more for them and it might attract some of the more fickle business travelers.

Just a thought.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21620 times:

Quoting aer (Reply 5):
What would happen to the international routes?

They stay. And suddenly WN has to start looking at the changes required to keep Rapid Rewards fair. For selfish reasons, I hope few changes are anticipated. Their system doesn't "give away freebies", rather it truly rewards its most frequent fliers with the opportunity to get away once in a while.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlinekbdude From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21619 times:

Once acquisition is completed....what will happen to FL's routes to San Juan, Bahamas, Aruba, DR & Jamaica?

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1918 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21567 times:

Wow! A.net speculation hits the bulls-eye. What a combo these two are! I'm stoked to see how this plays out.

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4086 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21565 times:

The thing about Portland and Manchester is that PWM is 'perceived' to be more of a 'seasonal' station than Manchester is. Not sure if that is a correct perception or not, but I do notice that JetBlue reduces capacity after Labor Day up at PWM.

I am counting on Southwest being loyal to both stations, as small as they are. They haven't eliminated very many cities throughout history, so this is a plus. Delta doesn't much care about MHT-ATL, preferring instead to encourage use of Logan. The two daily flights are essentially token flights, which provide much less capacity than the market can bear. If the new WN doesn't add flights at MHT, at least they can trade, say, a couple of BWI flights for a pair of new ATL ones.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21520 times:

Quoting kbdude (Reply 9):
Once acquisition is completed....what will happen to FL's routes to San Juan, Bahamas, Aruba, DR & Jamaica?

They will grow and be expanded upon except from Dallas. Jetblue and Spirit just got an intensely well capitalized and very strong competitor with a network that dwarfs them combined.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6055 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21401 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 12):
They will grow and be expanded upon except from Dallas.

Not from DAL they won't ...at least anytime soon....With the large base of Flyers....those CUN flights should be full of RapidRewards tickets



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21406 times:

Looking at http://www.lowfaresfarther.com/ I come up with a few things

1) Does this have to be approved by the government at all since it's just a purchase?

2) That's one way for WN to get into Atlanta...
I guess buying an airline with a hub int he city you've never entered is one way to start service there. Having WN in ATL is going to mean a lot of things to DL. Yes DL is a major international airline but WN in their own home can't be too comforting. It makes me wonder what new routes to the west coast WN may start competing on.... SAN/LAX-ATL is a very popular DL route it will be interesting to see the effect WN has on those routes and some others.

3) What to do with the planes....
I would assume they will keep the 717s on their existing routes until they can decide what to do with them, it's not like they can just get rid of that many planes so I have a feeling they will be around for a while. Eventually they could be spread out to routes that don't need a 737. With this WN also gets some more 737 deliveries (I think 54 are on order for AirTran) so that will help, maybe some can be converted into 738s.

4) Business class?
WN can't just rip out the interiors of that many planes overnight so for a while they will have to keep business class around, maybe keep them as AirTran flights until the planes are phased out and start separating them by WN flight or Air Tran flight.

5) Pilot pay rates
WN pays their pilots very well but how exactly do they merge the flight crew together?


User currently offlineaf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21277 times:

I'm flying FL Spring Break 2011. I assume nothing will change before that time?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21220 times:

Quoting KHPN (Reply 3):
But does this mean we'll be seeing some WN metal here at HPN

HPN probably has enough potential to survive, but I have to think that a lot of the smaller destinations AirTran serves are history.

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 15):
I assume nothing will change before that time?

Highly unlikely.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKBUF From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21206 times:

Found a mock-up of a 717 with WN's livery, if any of you want to see what WN's livery looks like on it.


Aviation-Designs.Net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © R P Abraham
Template © R P Abraham



As for the merger, wow, just wow.



"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup."-Terry Pegula, February 22, 2011
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21150 times:

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 15):
I'm flying FL Spring Break 2011. I assume nothing will change before that time?

I wouldn't assume anything.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
HPN probably has enough potential to survive, but I have to think that a lot of the smaller destinations AirTran serves are history.

I thought the same thing too at first, but then I remembered that A) WN also serves a few boutique cities and B) they've been looking for a way to get a more efficient aircraft for lower yield routes without ticking off the shareholders for some time.

Changes are expected, sure.. but I wouldn't be so quick to call the executioner.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21150 times:

Does anyone have any guesses on ATL-ABQ? I am worried that WN might simply drive DL off that route, as I am pretty sure most people in Albuquerque would prefer to fly WN than DL. The only thing that WN would not offer is international connectivity. Perhaps DL should flood ABQ with AVOD-equipped aircraft if WN adds ATL-ABQ, and DL can launch a mass advertising campaign about their AVOD to the Albuquerque market.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21066 times:

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
Does this have to be approved by the government at all since it's just a purchase?

All mergers do.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
I guess buying an airline with a hub int he city you've never entered is one way to start service there. Having WN in ATL is going to mean a lot of things to DL. Yes DL is a major international airline but WN in their own home can't be too comforting. It makes me wonder what new routes to the west coast WN may start competing on.... SAN/LAX-ATL is a very popular DL route it will be interesting to see the effect WN has on those routes and some others.

Yeah, but there are a lot of routes out there that are too small for a 737-700 but just right for a 717-200 that Southwest could exploit vs. trying to overcompete with DL.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
I would assume they will keep the 717s on their existing routes until they can decide what to do with them, it's not like they can just get rid of that many planes so I have a feeling they will be around for a while. Eventually they could be spread out to routes that don't need a 737. With this WN also gets some more 737 deliveries (I think 54 are on order for AirTran) so that will help, maybe some can be converted into 738s.

They'll keep them, use them on new routes, add some 737-800s and wait for a nextgen narrowbody to replace them..


User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 21065 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):

It's hard to say. People in abq might prefer WN but people in ATL will probably prefer DL.


User currently offlineKHPN From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20981 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 18):
I thought the same thing too at first, but then I remembered that A) WN also serves a few boutique cities and B) they've been looking for a way to get a more efficient aircraft for lower yield routes without ticking off the shareholders for some time.

Sounds an awful lot like a refitted FL B717 in WN c/s


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 20832 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 4):
Could someone link to the previous thread for reference? I don't know how to do that.
Southwest To Purchase Airtran (by vmcavmcg Sep 27 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):

1) Does this have to be approved by the government at all since it's just a purchase?

Yes.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
2) That's one way for WN to get into Atlanta...
I guess buying an airline with a hub int he city you've never entered is one way to start service there. Having WN in ATL is going to mean a lot of things to DL. Yes DL is a major international airline but WN in their own home can't be too comforting. It makes me wonder what new routes to the west coast WN may start competing on.... SAN/LAX-ATL is a very popular DL route it will be interesting to see the effect WN has on those routes and some others.

It's definitely going to make things interesting on the routes that they would compete on.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
3) What to do with the planes....
I would assume they will keep the 717s on their existing routes until they can decide what to do with them, it's not like they can just get rid of that many planes so I have a feeling they will be around for a while. Eventually they could be spread out to routes that don't need a 737. With this WN also gets some more 737 deliveries (I think 54 are on order for AirTran) so that will help, maybe some can be converted into 738s.

Going off the site you linked, it appears that the 717 is going to be sticking around for some time. To replace the 717 fleet ASAP would be rather expensive since there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 a/c involved.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
4) Business class?
WN can't just rip out the interiors of that many planes overnight so for a while they will have to keep business class around, maybe keep them as AirTran flights until the planes are phased out and start separating them by WN flight or Air Tran flight.

This could get interesting to say the least. Perhaps WN until they can retrofit the FL a/c to an all coach layout, they give these seats to A-List Members of Rapid Rewards.

With WN courting the business traveler like they do these days, it may be a smart idea to retain the Business Class cabin.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 14):
5) Pilot pay rates
WN pays their pilots very well but how exactly do they merge the flight crew together?

This could get interesting since it involves two different unions, as well as an a/c type that WN does not have. WN's pilots are represented by their in-house SWPA and FL's are represented by ALPA (They previously had their own in-house union, the NPA, but merged it into ALPA.). What could happen is that the FL pilots get tacked onto the bottom of the WN seniority list or they use the FL pilots' date of hire from their seniority list and place them within the WN seniority that way. Does anyone know offhand how WN handled the integration of Morris Air's pilots?


Some in the other thread are all doom and gloom about this being like when AA took over TWA. I think that WN will incorporate aspects of FL into the WN product to help make their product better.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32628 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 20637 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
To me the ever interesting part are the words "it is our intent" which means it is possible that a change may occur if it makes business sense.

The insertion of "our intent" is nothing more than legal talk inserted at the request of lawyers to protect an airline from forward looking statements. Make no mistake: business class and assigned seating are gone.



a.
25 United_fan : It's only 2 or 3 rows of seats. Take them out,put in coach seats.
26 Post contains images Quadagon : looks great! I hope it becomes a reality. Before I was thinking Delta was the most affected by this merger...wrong, Delta is a big boy, it can handle
27 Post contains images FilAmAirlines : As a result of the WN purchase of Air tran, WN will come into FNT in the near future. My hometown airport MBS will LOSE MORE pax than it already is al
28 gregarious119 : To be filed under the heading: "Interesting but may not end up being consequential" AirTran's seats fleet wide are 18'' wide with 30'' pitch. WN has s
29 tsugambler : I think I can safely say that this is going to be a FAR better situation than the AA / TW "merger"--for all parties involved. It sounds like this dea
30 virginblue4 : Omg, I cannot believe this! Just come home to read this, i honestly dont think anybody was expecting this! Well done to Southwest! Jordan
31 Post contains links FATFlyer : To continue some things from the previous thread http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4938433 I kind of read the same thi
32 Post contains images KingFriday013 : All quoted posts from the first thread: I think they'll stick around here. FL has a pretty large presence here. Other airlines also serve two of their
33 IMissPiedmont : Shades of Muse Air, the 717 will likely never fly in WN colors.
34 Post contains links PlaneAdmirer : It's working out pretty well for Ryan Air, so there is no reason to believe it won't here as well. https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/profitable-ry
35 cessna2 : The 717 is here to stay!!! awesome news!
36 BMI727 : That's about what I think. Just like TranStar, the planes will go with perhaps some of the network surviving. Edit: After taking a look, even the uni
37 UALWN : But that's in utter contradiction with what WN and Kelly have stated: FL workers will stay, 717s will stay, the route network will mostly stay. The n
38 Flighty : And behold, all the journalists touting WN's "unique" business model can stop saying it. WN is just another network airline. A strange one though.
39 GentFromAlaska : WN CEO Gary Kelly was just interview by Stuart Varney on Fox News. CEO Kelly plan is to grow ATL, he also mentioned his intent to serve markets from A
40 USAirALB : Wow. Wow wow wow wow wow. I hope we will see ALB-ATL soon. As for CLT, im curious to see what they will do. FL has two gates, maybe they can get one f
41 Post contains links and images tugger : Of that, I am quite sure! As I said: Again, no need to change the seating policy or the service. Now that could be the death of any different seating
42 travaz : In my opinion the sign of a really great and successfull company is one that can change its stratigy to adapt to changing conditions. Conditions in th
43 Post contains images smoot4208 : While Jerry Ore is not going to refuse WN service, unlike PHL he knows that making accommodations to allow them 10+ gates is not in the best interest
44 PHLBOS : Look at FL's seating map a little closer. The first row in the Coach Class seats start at 10 and skips row 13. So in reality, FL's 737s have 24 rows.
45 mrskyguy : Bingo. SWA's been looking for just the right opportunity to explore other fleet types without angering their loyal fanbase or shareholders, and this
46 sldispatcher : Airports will be lavishing money on WN......to start service. IF MKE is drawn down at all..or any other station..that frees up aircraft...Interesting
47 asteriskceo : I can guarantee you 100% that they will fly in WN colors.
48 Dl767captain : but that still takes time, for some amount of time they will have a business class cabin
49 glbltrvlr : That would happen automatically with the current A-list, Business Select boarding pass assignment process. In fact, it would likely generate some add
50 TheGov : Like everyone else, I was shocked and certainly didn't see this one coming. After reading over about 400 posts, I expected to see some mention of the
51 asteriskceo : The first person to realistically super impose the WN livery on a 717 wins a prize.
52 drerx7 : At the very least you'd see MEM connect to the obvious WN stations: HOU, PHX, LAS, MDW, LAX, DAL, MSY. BNA
53 MAH4546 : CLT does not have any say. Airports are public facilities that have to meet federal laws and guidelines, and one of those is providing open access to
54 Cubsrule : It won't happen, but how would an STL-sized WN operation not be in the city of Charlotte's interest? There's no reason MEM couldn't support a LIT-siz
55 Boeing1970 : Of course it is. Until the ink dries.
56 Cubsrule : You've just described a market with no tangible barriers to entry but plenty of intangible ones that come from the size of the monopolist. Isn't that
57 Post contains links and images concord977 : I see someone just found a drawing completed by R.P. Abraham. He does great work. I just did this one this afternoon and put it together in a hurry -
58 HAL : From a pilot's point of view this is going to be very interesting, because this is the first big merger to have to follow the McCaskill/Bond amendmen
59 reality : haha You do great work too. Better in this case as the colors are more vibrant and not as "muddy."
60 USAirALB : Because US likes having CLT to themselves. With WN in here, US will be less likely to start new service or to increase service. Remember the words of
61 sunking737 : Just how many 737's will the "New" Southwest have on order? Do you think that WN buying FL had anything to due with Boeing upping the production rate
62 wjcandee : For everyone who thinks that there is going to be any change to the Southwest model as a result of the merger, or "experimenting" with the Airtran fea
63 Flighty : In an ideal world I agree with this post. But even the US government isn't a believer in these principles anymore. They will believe any excuse. They
64 Post contains images tugger : Doh!!! Thanks for pointing that out to me. Does the fact that this is a purchase vs a "merger" change any of that (I use quotes because no matter wha
65 Flighty : That was Dave Siegel but the principle is the same.
66 rikkus67 : Here is another question to pose (albeit very premature), with regards to international routes: With the integration of FL, does anyone think that Sou
67 RobertS975 : Almost all mergers represent a purchase of the stock of one company by another, one company's stock surviving going forward. The surviving company's
68 Antoniemey : Which hopefully means the end of that Ravens logo jet. (Yuck!) Looks pretty good to me. It will be interesting with the T-Tail... makes the name quit
69 MLD9S : No one posting here knows. You say offer the "exact same" service? I assume you are including free, enhanced snacks and free alcohol? So, explain to
70 Cubsrule : Where can I see this effect in action today? What cities does US not serve from PHL because of WN?
71 HAL : Whatever language is used by Kelly and others, this is a merger, plain and simple. A purchase is a merger - there really isn't any difference. So yes
72 Flytravel : I think ABE, MDT and ACY will lose FL/WN. ABE might be able to attract B6 to come in to fly ABE-BOS, provding LCC competition from ABE to the west coa
73 Revelation : And as was mentioned in the last thread, they have access to year's worth of FL's data on flying the 717. That doesn't necessarily mean good news for
74 FlyPNS1 : Maybe so, but FL had few premium pax. Even those flying in FL's business class weren't what most carriers would call premium. Other than G4, FL has s
75 XT6Wagon : Uh, Of course they are going to serve new markets from ATL. They will need to tranistion it from a full hub serving FL's needs to a WN style hub in t
76 IMissPiedmont : Never guarantee anything, it may well be but until the paint is drying on the metal there are no guarantees.
77 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : Wow....off the computer all day, and this is the first thing I see when I log on. No time yet to read hundreds of posts...or at least as many as I can
78 Atlwest1 : Now you know exactly what i meant. But to make it clear...The Caribbean networks in BWI ATL MKE MCO will be expanded upon. Why because those airports
79 wjcandee : Kelly has said that the number of seats in the 717 will stay the same, but the business seats will go bye-bye right away.
80 MAH4546 : CLT can't do anything. If Southwest wants to come in and start 100 daily flights, there is nothing CLT can do to stop Southwest short of there actual
81 mrskyguy : Bologna. That makes sense in a world of independents, but with the merger mania going on in the United States, and airline has 2 options. Go it alone
82 Post contains links KarlB737 : Statements from the Part 1 Thread: Quoting enilria: "FNT OUT I'd say 80% chance it's gone. Both carriers are in DTW." Quoting isitsafenow: "FNT stays
83 brandonfsu05 : I think you're misreading what the other posters are saying... I don't know if you've ever been to CLT but there is really no room for Southwest outs
84 Post contains images ikramerica : They could simply board the business select pax first on flights operated by 2-class aircraft until they are all retrofitted. That way it's first com
85 reality : probably 115 or 120, since they are 5 across, including exit rows.
86 KHPN : I say they keep the B717s for their 'boutique' and low yielding markets, at least for the simple fact that it looks GREAT in WN c/s
87 usscvr : I am curious how some of FL in-flight amenities will fit the WN business model. FL touts Gogo® Inflight Internet on every plane and free XM Satellite
88 Cubsrule : Low O&D? Have you looked at CLT's fares? And who do you think fills up all of those new (and very nice) parking garages? They didn't put up the t
89 Post contains images Mexicana757 : Well things at MDW just got a little bit more boring. But if it means more flights into MDW and new cities, bring the merger on! If WN keeps the FL ga
90 isitsafenow : Now lets get wacky and have some REAL fun.. 1. Change the red to airTrans turquoise 2. Change the Canyon Blue to airTrans turquoise. safe
91 BMI727 : Did he say how long? I can't imagine WN continuing to spend resources fighting with Delta in small markets with piss poor yields. The ATL hub will st
92 KarlB737 : On a side note I wonder who paints aircraft for WN and where that is done at.
93 LTBEWR : Like many, I was taken by surprise of this announcement, but agree that at some point WN had to get into an airline to allow necessary expansion to ke
94 Post contains images planemaker : There is the remote possibility that WN will take on more 717s. I didn't think it would happen but I did speculate about it since I have always belie
95 Post contains links FATFlyer : Yep, as I said myself in the first thread do not overlook the value of all the data WN is getting and not just about the 717. I don't think at this p
96 planemaker : If there is hardly any overlap then then it can't hurt competition. If anything, a bulked up WN will be able to inject more competition and shake up
97 Cubsrule : Maybe. But if WN can make GSP work (I guess the jury is still out on that), why can't they make a place like TYS work? The markets are pretty similar
98 reality : I don't believe that AirTran is currently at EWR.
99 USAirALB : I guess I kinda phrased that wrong. I should have said something like, CLT isn't gonna go out of here way to attract WN and sAy come build a hub here
100 Post contains links and images Pensacolaguy : What about Pensacola (PNS)? Southwest signed a strategic alliance agreement between Southwest and The St. Joe Company NOT TO SERVE ANY airport within
101 reality : As has been mentioned, there is not much difference between the size of the 717 and the 737-500. 115 seats at 31-32 pitch for the 717 (all coach) and
102 planemaker : Perhaps this should go over on the Frontier thread but I think that this is a negative for Frontier as it hems them in somewhat. I wonder what the Fro
103 mariner : It's being debated on the Frontier thread, but I am not sure how it "hems them in." I think it frees Frontier up a tad. Generally, I see perceive thi
104 STT757 : FL traded their EWR slots and gates to CO in exchange for LGA and DCA slots, FL is no longer at EWR.
105 wjcandee : WN has said it will keep 117 seats in the 717, just all-coach. So, five seats difference. However, 717 is much-better-suited to very-short hops than
106 TOMMY767 : They left rather recently but doesn't matter because southwest is coming in next year. I'm not sure if they'd start ATL right off the bat though.
107 Cubsrule : The 712 is obviously better suited to Hawaii-type short hops, but what about WN-type short hops which are longer, tend to be interspersed with longer
108 STT757 : There was tons of speculation of what WN would do with their 18 EWR slots, I think they'll definitely serve ATL.
109 tugger : OK, thanks. I know "legalese" can change simple stuff sometimes. Well the interesting thing is that both WN's and FL's -700's have 137 seats, so the
110 Post contains links FWAERJ : Though FWA's pax boardings were up 15% last month (a good sign), they're already measuring the impact of a WN/FL deal. Neither WN nor FL serve FWA; ho
111 Post contains links reality : 117 is the current configuration with business class and 30" pitch in coach. How would there be 117 seat after they reconfigure to remove business? O
112 UALWN : If the yields are so low, then why did FL do it? And how did they manage to stay profitable throughout? Anyway, Kelly said that they're buying growth
113 wwtraveler99 : Quoting from the 1st thread. Boeing1970: "1. The 717 at 117 seats is 32" pitch." Reply: Does this take into account FL has 12 first class seats? Drerx
114 DCA-ROCguy : It's highly unlikely that WN will close the ROC FL station. Many, many FL stations are in the 6-8 range of dailies that ROC operates, and closing all
115 BMI727 : That was part of their business model to avoid getting squashed by Delta. And with DL partaking in some pretty obvious capacity dumping, there is pro
116 ikramerica : My bad. I was doing my math by adding and subtracting sixes while staring at the seat map full of 5s! DOH! 115 is the most likely based on a 32-34" p
117 tugger : 24 rows in the 717 w/biz class, and the 2.5 inches per row add up! Edited to say, I need to figure this out better and I don't have the time. I know
118 Post contains images ikramerica : Remove 3 rows of J, not 4. To remove 4, they'd have to add one first...
119 reality : 23 rows, all coach at 31-32" pitch = 115 seats. See..........http://seatguru.com/airlines/Qantas_Airways/Qantas_Airways_Boeing_717-200.php
120 Post contains images DocLightning : A lot of people are saying: "WN is not going to destroy DL! This is not the end of DL!" I think that only an idiot would claim that WN is going to des
121 tugger : I was edumacated on this earlier: Coach starts with row 10, goes to row 31, and has no row 13, then add the 3 rows of biz and you have 24 rows (I cou
122 ikramerica : Or filled their shorts... :ew!!:
123 reality : The Qantas example has 23 rows and has 31-32" pitch, at least according to seat guru.
124 Post contains links and images tugger : Well the AirTran SeatGuru chart is probably more accurate for the AirTran 717's: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...AirTran_Airways_Boeing_717-20
125 reality : Yes.....more accurate if you want to include business class. I was referring to an all coach configuration.
126 mrskyguy : Ehh.. if that happens, I predict 'ugly' and lots of it. Certainly so, and the recent collapse of Mexicana and the position that put Boeing in will li
127 tugger : Ahhhhhh!! Now I get it! I was missing that. Yes, it does appear to be a layout similar to what WN would do, although it appears that WN would only ha
128 FutureUScapt : Neither of those airports are closed to new entrants. If VX wants to fly to either of those airports they can negotiate a deal with an airline that c
129 XT6Wagon : I don't that DL is even worried outside of the huge unkowns it puts into thier future planning. WN isn't going to wreck them, might not even hurt the
130 Cubsrule : That wasn't my question. I made no statement about what is good for CLT management, or what they ought to do. As a passenger, without some concrete l
131 mrskyguy : Is Delta worried? No. Will they react, most definitely.. though it may not be in an overt fashion. Rather Delta is more likely to operate reactionary
132 quickmover : WN had already announced plans to start GSP. Could those plans change with the FL station already open at AVL 40 miles up the road? I'm not sure there
133 FutureUScapt : I guess I misunderstood you. When you said "city of Charlotte," I took that to mean elected officials, airport officials, key business leaders, etc (
134 Cubsrule : By "City of Charlotte," I mean all of those groups aside from airport officials, but I think that the interests of everyone outside the airport proba
135 USAirALB : We as, Charlotteans, are blessed with nonstop service to almost every corner of America, and to a growing number of international destinations. I am
136 BD338 : Wow. Like many here, did not see this one coming. This one is a game changer IMHO. WN will now be in every major and many other tier cities across the
137 wwtraveler99 : Rapid Rewards tickets are now capacity controlled. You must use two tickets for an anytime, any flight, as long as seats are available, award. Pay ra
138 Cubsrule : Where is that point? You have legacy hubs coexisting peacefully with WN stations ranging in size from eight weekday flights (IAD) to 177 weekday flig
139 smoot4208 : And if every legacy hub was like PHX, they wouldn't be making much money.
140 Cubsrule : ...which is why I asked the question. Do you have an answer?
141 laxboeingman : Good for WN. I think that this will help them because they will be able to expand into markets that they did not previously did not have a presence in
142 Post contains images FutureUScapt : It's certainly not as simple as you make it seem. Enplaned passengers are not going to be the be all end all factor here, it will be the dollars brou
143 N200WN : This is all really amazing and I'm looking forward to welcoming Air Tran employees into the Southwest family. I hope the Air Tran employees are lookin
144 flflyer : Will WN move FL Elite to the A-llist?
145 rampart : Ugly? Not for us customers! Bring it on! Wrap the price into the ticket, like WN does. I won't mind, really. Is the extra baggage fee making that muc
146 Post contains images Atlwest1 : Well your future co workers appreciate the welcome. We have good people who work hard and are looking forward to a company that appreciates that. We
147 rj777 : Just read on the merger website: "With a more diversified fleet, provide Southwest Airlines with the flexibility to consider adding service to smaller
148 FutureUScapt : Of course not, I wish everything that I purchased today was the same price that it was in 1999! Absolutely. Ancillary revenues typically account for
149 BMI727 : Well, one can hope, but what Southwest has been doing has been working very well. That isn't to say that they couldn't be successful, but they may ha
150 msp747 : I am excited to see WN add the 717 to the fleet. I know a lot of people on here are discounting Kelly's claims that Southwest wants to keep them, but
151 BMI727 : They could just offer them 737s to staple a bit more onto that backlog. Or they could do both, cut them a deal on new 737s in return for keeping the
152 rampart : And I wish I had as many choices for airlines as I did in 1999. So a little give in their take would be good, as far as I'm concerned. If DL managed
153 quickmover : I can't wait to see a 717 in WN paint. Wouldn't it be cool to have one painted in the new livery before the shareholder vote? They would work great do
154 peanuts : Have we all forgotten WN's keys to success so quickly? They threw a few of those keys out the window today...think about it. Also: Will WN start prote
155 rampart : I can only think of one, the "no 2nd fleet type", but they are such a large airline now it's necessary to grow different directions that a single mod
156 quickmover : Not too much. They were already serving the bigger cities (BOS, LGA, PHL, ...) They added alot of new destinations, but nothing that wouldn't have be
157 FutureUScapt : A little give in their take?? You are still paying the same price that you were paying more than a decade ago in spite of the fact there are less com
158 quickmover : I really don't know what they can do that they didn't already try to do to FL. They are probably thinking now that they would have been better off wi
159 FutureUScapt : I was speaking more in regards to the baggage and change fees, both of which FL has currently but WN has indicated that their "intent is that these f
160 quadagon : Doubt it, BWI isn't a good city to start international operations IMO, and they would never win at ATL against Delta. I believe they will start to se
161 rj777 : I wonder how fast Southwest will re-paint the AirTran fleet?
162 DocLightning : They're not worried except for the huge... worries. People don't worry about known things. They worry about unknowns. I guarantee that there have bee
163 FlyASAGuy2005 : How so? What are you talking about specifically? You will be surprised. For this particular matter I can't commetn but I can count 4 people that post
164 mrskyguy : If WN had decided to stick doggedly to its original strategy, growth would have been extremely slow.. something WN's shareholders would not be please
165 Post contains images Maverick623 : You might want to read up a little more on the AA-TWA buyout. For starters: AA decimated TWA's operations. Every single employee got stapled to the b
166 wjcandee : I was involved in it, so I'm pretty sure I know enough to make the comparison.
167 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : sI think the real story here is how much of a larger national carrier this is going to make WN. Plus some Caribbean and Cancun flights! This might eve
168 Maverick623 : I really don't see the comparison, but I see where you might have been going with it. I can agree that anything resembling the AirTran brand will be
169 XT6Wagon : Another thread said that the upgrading of the 737-700 fleet for Wifi has begun. Perhaps this new subfleet will keep its Wifi setup till they can conv
170 Flighty : First NW and KL had ATI approved. Then DL and AF had it approved. Then KL and AF merged, which created a new problem for the anti-trust dynamic. Then
171 ADent : As of a month ago WN had 116 orders and 37 options per Crain's. Seattle Times say the totals are currently 108 and 37, with 51 orders for AirTran. An
172 Post contains images randykkubo : It's all about who is going to make money. There is a lot going into what planes are going to be used, based on profits and popularity. Everyone can s
173 sunking737 : Thanks for the reply, that's a lot of metal. To say the lest this will be interesting.
174 Revelation : Probably so, since there certainly are no takers for 86 717s out there, none that we can forsee at least. Then again, FL evolved from ValueJet, runni
175 AVLAirlineFreq : I see a lot of discussion and wild speculation about the specific consequences of this deal on this board, but very little discussion of and insight i
176 Revelation : All of the above. Additionally, simply put, it was the best move for both airlines. Both had restless shareholders (FL more so than WN) because neith
177 Post contains images PHLBOS : Given that DL's total encatchment area still dwarfs that of WN/FL; as much as I would love to see the baggage fees go away, I don't see DL eliminatin
178 Post contains links and images KPHXFlyer : Do you think Southwest would put their title on the 717 aircraft like they did the 727s 30 years ago? i.e. put "SOUTHWEST" on the fuselage above the f
179 Post contains images gregarious119 : Man they ought to be ashamed of themselves for that greenish color. The gold/brown isn't so bad, but MAN that green is awful.
180 Flytravel : I suspect small-mid markets in upstate NY, New England and the Carolinas would fare better in the long term. This because WN could have -BWI routes S
181 PHLBOS : If they decide to keep the Sports-team themed schemes on the 717s (which features the team logo or titles on the tail rather than the airline name);
182 Antoniemey : It's all in how you look at it. MDD started the 717... Boeing finished it. And since Boeing now owns all the former MDD trademarks and intellectual p
183 GSPSPOT : Well, it was still much better than the current purple/"canyon blue" muck...
184 toptravel : So should I sell the rest of my FL stock?
185 Antoniemey : I rather like the blue, myself... at least until it fades. Truthfully, I'd rather they come up with something a bit more... imaginative, but that's n
186 quickmover : FL's costs were about to go up with a new pilots contract although WN's costs were not that much higher than FL's. WN also will generate a higher fare
187 Blueman87 : does look good even though i am a jetBlue fan good looking airplane
188 bobnwa : No, Flighty very few if any of us knew this was the plan, mainly because it wasn't always the plan. That is just amateur CEO rumor on A. net.
189 MD80Nut : I can understand why people would think WN would want to get rid of the 717 given their well known business model using one basic type only, the 737.
190 peanuts : Ding ding ding!!! Exactly! So, WN is "human" after all. They are not invincible. They are not the airline that will come waltzing into ATL and turn a
191 rampart : Actually, they haven't, in the past couple years, at least what I'm paying. But there are certainly fewer airlines in that time. I'm aware that the t
192 Cubsrule : Most St. Louisans were quite happy with the ~500 daily flight TW hub and the ~90 daily flight WN station. Like I said, if the airport can support bot
193 IMissPiedmont : Very much more logical, If WN keeps them I think they'd be much better suited to the routes out here in TUS than the 737s. I'm getting bored with 737
194 FL787 : I've finally recovered from the initial shock! WN and FL sure kept this quiet especially since they had been talking about a possible marketing allian
195 DCA-ROCguy : How, to follow up on FL787, how did Southwest and AirTran manage to catch everybody by surprise with this announcement? A number of us have been sayin
196 Post contains images concord977 : Flightarrivals.com is providing some very detailed seat maps lately:
197 quickmover : Did Forono say how long this deal has been in the works? I wonder if in the end, it all came down to the pilot contract not being worked out that fina
198 skyymarc : Well, now all four airlines that I used to work for have been or will be bought out/merged with another carrier. HP, QQ, FL, XE. To all my friends at
199 Post contains links flashmeister : I agree with Mariner -- this is good news for F9, at least for a little while. This is going to turn down the heat a little bit at MKE as the focus o
200 mariner : I believe the view at Frontier is that they are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on the merger issues. For Southwest/Airtran, that journey h
201 FlyASAGuy2005 : This is something I was thinking about as well. From what i've been told, it was kept within high level management, that's about it. EVERYONE and I m
202 Post contains images zippyjet : It's probably been already said but, this is going to be a major life change for us 7000 FL family. And I'll keep it at that. Hoping for a smooth fli
203 PHLBOS : Given the presence that both carriers (separate and combined) have at FLL, losing MIA (which presently shows only 2 flights/day to/from ATL) may not
204 GSPSPOT : With this merger/acquisition happening, removing one LFC competitor in the market, I'm hoping for F9 to grow more into the Southeast to keep the new
205 zippyjet : But, though flights were minimal, we were the only one of the big three LCC's to have MIA service. The Miami metro area is quite spread out. We get a
206 PHLBOS : If that were to happen, it would be the first time WN directly competed w/AA at its hub airport. At present, WN has only competed in AA's hub cities
207 SeeTheWorld : While that is true, I don't think the reason WN hasn't competed directed at AA hubs has less to do with AA then with DAL being their home airport and
208 OzarkD9S : Lets not forget STL. When the first big round of AA cuts at STL happened in '03, a hefty % of markets cut were those that had WN service.
209 PHLBOS : No offense but I don't count STL as much a AA hub. Yes, it was originally a TW hub and AA inherited it but its fate post-merger was, IMHO, already wr
210 OzarkD9S : You're probably correct on your assumptions, however, STL was the first instance of AA having to deal directly with significant WN ops at an AA hub.
211 IMissPiedmont : And writing of Frontier, I wonder if they will ask for the FL code. I still can't get them disassociated, every time I see these thread titles I get c
212 Cubsrule : Maybe, but how big was WN at BNA when the hub was open? As late as 1994, WN had just a couple of gates and no more than 12 or 15 flights.
213 rj777 : I wonder if WN will keep the OMA-MKE route operated by SkyWest?
214 Kcrwflyer : I'd imagine all of the skywest ops at MKE will go by the wayside and any routes that need that feed to live will also be cut. MKE wont be nearly the
215 mariner : Most of them will go because Southwest cannot have that relationship with Skywest. But I would not be surprised to see Southwest fly MKE-STL, perhaps
216 Post contains links tugger : An interesting little read on this on BusinessWeek.com: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...t-in-talks-to-acquire-airtran.html Tugg
217 DCA-ROCguy : Zippyjet--good to hear from you. Was interested to hear what you have to say. I just flew FL at BWI (to-from ROC) a few days ago. All of you at AirTr
218 Post contains links and images zippyjet : And, in case no one posted this pic; Here is a very good rendering of a 717 in WNlivery. This one shows the current blue theme however, there are no s
219 Post contains images tugger : I've seen it posted before but the funny thing is to realize that this was created back in 2004.... Is that when the merger rumors first began? Tugg
220 Cubsrule : I think keeping a 717 in FL paint (a la the US retrojets) would be a cool thing to do - it doesn't mean it will happen, but WN does have retrojets in
221 PHLBOS : However, those retrojets are in old SOUTHWEST colors. To date, there's no WN plane out there painted in either MorrisAir or Muse Air colors. IMHO, th
222 Cubsrule : No, although FL is well larger than either of those, and until HP and US merged, there was no US plane out there painted in PI colors.
223 mke717spotter : I know I've brought up the issue of current FL/WN route overlaps in other threads, but I decided to look all of them up and put together a list. I thi
224 Kcrwflyer : I dont think they'd keep a loser.
225 SurfandSnow : LOL, what would either airline have to give up? It's not like any of these routes involve scarce slots, route authorities, etc. as you see with legac
226 txagkuwait : No, there isn't. But there should have been. They named one after Rollin King who (IMO) was not of their most skillful pilots ever.....but I won't go
227 Post contains images zippyjet : Around BWI I'm starting to pick up some news in dribs and drabs. Actually more "411" from WN crewmembers. The latest buzz regarding seniority: Instead
228 2175301 : I think a fairer way would be hours of flying time with each company...
229 zippyjet : Sorry, I forgot to mention this refers to Customer Service and Ramp employees. I'm not sure how in-flight is going to rock and roll during all this.
230 Cubsrule : Gates - but they'll likely do that anyway.
231 Dxer1974 : I am glad to see that WN will probably do a good job in integrating the FL folks.I am glad its WN and not AA that bought FL! I will miss the big A on
232 GentFromAlaska : For those who may be interested Brian Sullivan of Fox Business News will be conducting what I understand to be an extensive interview today (Friday) O
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Rumor: Southwest To Buy Airtran? posted Sat Nov 10 2007 16:21:55 by Callsigncitrus
Southwest To Take Over Airtran's DEN Gate posted Fri Dec 29 2006 05:45:02 by Quickmover
Airtran Or Southwest To Get The MDW Gates posted Mon Dec 13 2004 22:36:42 by Quickmover
Air Southwest To End NQY-PLH-LCY posted Thu May 13 2010 10:46:16 by Pe@rson
Southwest To South Carolina - CHS And GSP posted Tue May 11 2010 11:18:21 by mah4546
Russian VIM Avia To Purchase Up To 6 747-400s posted Tue Apr 6 2010 19:51:05 by kevin
JAL Says NO To SkyTeam/Delta - Part 2 posted Tue Feb 9 2010 15:12:18 by LipeGIG
Dallas Biz Jrnl: Southwest To Test 'Green' Plane posted Thu Oct 22 2009 16:31:28 by KPHXFlyer
Republic To Purchase US E190s? posted Fri Oct 2 2009 11:16:53 by Loggat
Southwest To Announce Row 44 Deal Today?1? posted Fri Aug 21 2009 06:55:06 by RunwayGirl