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Pan Am Flight 812 Crash In Bali?  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18865 times:

Does anyone have any information about the crash of Pan Am flight 812 in Bali? I've been to Bali several times and am curious to find out if it's possible to see the site of the crash.

I've been unable to find any specifics of the location or photographs of the site, or anything about any sort of a memorial.

I know that it was part of a string of PA 707 crashes in the 1970s which I'm sure damaged Pan Am's reputation, which was apparently quite poor in Australia

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18751 times:

http://www.panamair.org/OLDSITE/Accidents/Climax.htm


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineTheGoldenArgosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18725 times:

On April 22, 1974, Pan Am Flight 812 was flying from Hong Kong to Sydney via Denpasar. Clipper Climax went down 37 miles northwest of Ngurah Rai Airport, killing 96 passengers and 11 crew. The Ministry of Transport, Communications and Tourism, Indonesia's report stated, "the probable cause or this accident was the premature execution of a right hand turn to join the 263 degrees outbound track which was based on the indication given by only one of the ADFs while the other one was still in steady condition." The crew trying to expedite the landing turned 30 miles north of the beacon. At the time of the crash the landing gear was down and locked. The starboard wing hit several trees, the plane then passed through a gap between two large trees. The starboard wing broke off, and separated into four pieces. Then the left wing hit a ridge, and broke into three parts. The fuselage came to rest and burst into flames.

The crash was a wake up call for Pan Am. Flight 812 was the third 707 the airline had lost in the Pacific in less than a year. (Flight 806 in Pago Pago and Flight 816 in Papeete) The crews of all three planes had senior captains known as "Sky-Gods." Pan Am's culture had instilled a superiority complex in these veterans, making them believe they were invincible. This lead to the errors that brought down Flight 806, 812, and 816 in less than a year. Following the crash Pan Am addressed the issue and encouraged an early form of CRSM. The Bali crash was the final 707 lost following the safety improvements.


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18673 times:

The crash was in a very remote area near the top of the mountain - Does that mean the wreckage is likely to still remain?

User currently offlineTheGoldenArgosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18625 times:

My guess would be that at least some of the wreckage is still up there on the mountain given it's remote location

User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 1932 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18594 times:

In the mid and late 90's, I made two attempts to get to this crash site. One of the problems is, the location is a rather remote location on the NW side of the island. On both attempts, I failed to get near the site. Aside from this, because of the age of the crash site, I have been told it is almost impossible to find the exact site, because of the terrain and thick vegetation. With it now being 36 years since the crash, most people don't even know about it anymore.

It is my guess that there is probably a lot of the original wreckage still there, but the impact was rather devastating, so large remains probably are not present. I hope you have better luck than I did..


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8579 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18570 times:
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Quoting TheGoldenArgosy (Reply 2):
The crash was a wake up call for Pan Am. Flight 812 was the third 707 the airline had lost in the Pacific in less than a year.

When did Bali move to the Pacific ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 1932 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18565 times:

I think the Poster was referring to the region of operation, rather than the ocean itself. Although Bali is not in the Pacific Ocean, it was part of what was referred to as the Pacific and Australasia operation.

User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18473 times:

Yes I should have said that it was the third 707 to crash, with the other 2 being in the pacific. My Bad! I was thinking of it in terms of a "Pacific network"

Quoting crownvic (Reply 5):
In the mid and late 90's, I made two attempts to get to this crash site. One of the problems is, the location is a rather remote location on the NW side of the island. On both attempts, I failed to get near the site. Aside from this, because of the age of the crash site, I have been told it is almost impossible to find the exact site, because of the terrain and thick vegetation. With it now being 36 years since the crash, most people don't even know about it anymore.

Where is the crash site located? I know there's no exact co-ordinates, however other than "Mount Meshe", which I can't find on any map, I have no idea where the general location is

[Edited 2010-09-29 23:40:51]

User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18122 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 8):
Where is the crash site located? I know there's no exact co-ordinates, however other than "Mount Meshe", which I can't find on any map, I have no idea where the general location is

Using google earth, plotting a course of 37nm NW of Bali Airport, at a location with an altitude of 915m (3000ft) ASL I came up with the following location. This is a very rough guess but the terrain matches the location of the crash site description.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...843&spn=0.042728,0.055189&t=h&z=14



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 17979 times:

The close proximity to Gunung Patas suggests that your estimated location is very close to the spot! Thank you! I actually tried looking for "signs" of a crash but soon realised how incredibly futile such an attempt would be! It's probably next to impossible to locate the site without going through resources from the investigation into the crash, and I've no idea where to look for that.

It really shows how difficult it must be to get there. It's something I really would love to do, as I have been to Bali a few times and intend to go again soon, however it doesn't seem an easy task.

I really hope someone does one day though. Often years and years after crashes happen people who take an interest in the story seem to go on expeditions to find the location, I'm hoping someone does that for this site.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2240 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17690 times:

"Skygods", by Robert Gandt, discusses this crash, and Pan Am's other crashes in the early and mid 1970s.

If you don't have a copy of Skygods, get it today. Skygods is the best book I've read about the decline of PA. It begins with a new hire class of Pan Am pilots in 1966 (Pan Am's peak year) being told "you gentlemen will be SST pilots", and ends with the removal of the Pan Am globe from the Pan Am building in 1991.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17662 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 11):
"Skygods", by Robert Gandt, discusses this crash, and Pan Am's other crashes in the early and mid 1970s.

Which brings up the opporunity to put a plug in for this EXCELLENT book, especially for those of us who are airline junkies. THis is a very comprehensive history of Pan Am, replete with really great anecdotes and stories from about flight crews. I highly recommend it. I could not put it down, and read it cover to cover on a flight from JFK to Tokyo a few years back. Can't recommend it enough.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17504 times:

One more plug for one of the best books ever written about the airlines, and the best written by a jet pilot (since Ernest K Gann only flew props...). Gandt's story actually ends with him retraining on the A300, in the sim, when the news breaks that the airline is shutting down and they have to leave the building. By the time they've shut down the sim, the doors have been padlocked and they have to climb out a window. From "Congratulations gentlemen, you're going to be SST pilots" to the undignified exit from the training building is 27 years of great flying stories (lived the tales of the Berlin IGS) and insight into the decline and fall of an American icon (ruminations on the personality flaws of 70s chairman William Seawell are oddly satisfying).

Buy it today!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16483 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 13):
Gandt's story actually ends with him retraining on the A300, in the sim, when the news breaks that the airline is shutting down and they have to leave the building. By the time they've shut down the sim, the doors have been padlocked and they have to climb out a window.

He actually went over to DL as part of the acquisition (flew the 767ER for a while until retirement). That anecdote is a former colleague of his.


User currently offlinetoptravel From Italy, joined Oct 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 14954 times:

I beleive both pilots were in heavy discussion about the Union at the time of the crash.

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