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TWA To Hong Kong - 60s?  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 665 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

When did TWA start service to Hong Kong, and was it using 707-331 or -331B equipment?

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

I believe it was 10/31/1966.


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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25077 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Hong Kong CAB route authority was finally received and approved by the White House in 1961 and joined to existing authority to places like Bangkok and Colombo, however TWA had been prior serving Far East such as Philippines as early as 1959.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25077 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Dug up some more info.

The Brits dragged their feet until 1966 when they finally allowed TWA into Hong Kong via an Atlantic routing which was: Kansas City - Chicago - New York - Paris - Rome - Cairo - Dhahran - Bombay - Bangkok - Hong Kong and operated 2x weekly as TWA800.

Pacific routing to Hong Kong commenced August 1st 1969 which then gave TWA a round-the-world service on routing of Los Angeles - Honolulu - Guam - Okinawa - Taipei - Hong Kong - Bangkok - Bombay - Tel Aviv - Athens - Zurich - Frankfurt - New York - Los Angeles which operated daily. (Colombo was added between BKK-BOM 2x weekly).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

TWA was awarded a route from BKK to HKG, extending TWA's route from Europe eastward in January 1961, effective March 20, 1961 by President Eisenhower before he left office.

http://www.umkc.edu/whmckc/twa/TWASk...Skyliner1961/KC0453-1961.01.26.pdf

But the British Government, then ruling Hong Kong, refused to give TWA permission to begin service, so in 1961, in order to make their Intenational Operations all jet, they suspended service at Columbo and Bangkok and terminated their Asia flights at Bombay.

http://www.umkc.edu/whmckc/twa/TWASk...Skyliner1966/KC0453-1966.02.28.pdf


Service to HKG did not begin until 10/31/66 as posted above.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Dug up some more info.

The Brits dragged their feet until 1966 when they finally allowed TWA into Hong Kong via an Atlantic routing which was: Kansas City - Chicago - New York - Paris - Rome - Cairo - Dhahran - Bombay - Bangkok - Hong Kong and operated 2x weekly as TWA800.

Pacific routing to Hong Kong commenced August 1st 1969 which then gave TWA a round-the-world service on routing of Los Angeles - Honolulu - Guam - Okinawa - Taipei - Hong Kong - Bangkok - Bombay - Tel Aviv - Athens - Zurich - Frankfurt - New York - Los Angeles which operated daily. (Colombo was added between BKK-BOM 2x weekly).

This route proved to be very unprofitable for TWA, because (1) TWA was not awarded rights to Tokyo, and (2) the Great Circle route between Taipei / Hong Kong is shorter than TWA's route via HNL and GUM, which increased operating costs.

TWA suspended Hong Kong, along with all of their other destinations east of TLV and west of LAX / SFO, in 1974, as part of the Pan Am / TWA route swap.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

LAXintl post three is correct as is MilesRIch post.
Source TW scheds:
OCT 1960
Mar 1961
Jun 1963
Feb 1968

There are other TWA scheds available but I didnt bother to open them.
PHXFlyer also gets a star for his report card.
and........
I learned a bit from WA707atMSP.
safe   



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25125 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 5):
This route proved to be very unprofitable for TWA, because (1) TWA was not awarded rights to Tokyo, and (2) the Great Circle route between Taipei / Hong Kong is shorter than TWA's route via HNL and GUM, which increased operating costs.

TWA suspended Hong Kong, along with all of their other destinations east of TLV and west of LAX / SFO, in 1974, as part of the Pan Am / TWA route swap.

Apart from not having rights to Japan, meaning very little high yield traffic, and the resulting much longer route via HNL and GUM, TWA's 707s weren't competitive in the latter years of their transpacific service as their competitors were almost all operating 747s by then.


User currently offlineFilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

If TW had flying rights to Nippon would they had pursued more routes in to/from East Asia?
IIRC the TW of the 80s-end didn't want to expand into Asian market with the exception of the Middle Eastern portion.



FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
Apart from not having rights to Japan, meaning very little high yield traffic, and the resulting much longer route via HNL and GUM, TWA's 707s weren't competitive in the latter years of their transpacific service as their competitors were almost all operating 747s by then.

Agreed.

The CAB recommended that TWA be allowed to stop in Tokyo on this route, but the Japanese Government would not allow a third US passenger airline to serve Japan. The Japanese were willing to allow Northwest to add flights from LAX / SFO to Japan, in addition to NW's then existing flights from SEA / ANC, so NW was awarded California - Tokyo in lieu of TWA.

If the Japanese government had been willing to allow TWA to serve Tokyo, the route could have been very profitable for TWA.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
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