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New United Fleet - Let The Speculation Begin  
User currently offlineGenYBusTrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 28916 times:

The new United has stated the following:

"...Most modern and fuel-efficient fleet (when adjusted for cabin size), and the best new aircraft order
book, among U.S. network carriers."

Probably True!

Here's what they have - certainly a lot of different types of planes. What stays, what goes?
_______________________________________
A320 Family - 152 @ 11.7 years average

A319 55 @ 10.6 Avg Age [Oldest 13 y/o, Newest 8 y/o] UA
A320 97 @ 12.3 Avg Age [Oldest 17 y/o, Newest

246 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGenYBusTrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 28972 times:

cont..
_______________________________________
B737 Family - 238 @ 8.1 years average

B737-500 32 @ 14.3 Avg Age [Oldest 16 y/o, Newest 12 y/o] CO
B737-700 35 @ 12.5 Avg Age [Oldest 13 y/o, Newest 12 y/o] CO
B737-800 128 @ 6.8 Avg Age [Oldest 12 y/o, Newest


User currently offlineGenYBusTrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 28963 times:

B737-900 12 @ 8.8 Avg Age [Oldest 9 y/o, Newest 8 y/o] CO
B737-900ER 31 @ 1.5 Avg Age [Oldest 2 y/o, Newest 1 y/o] CO
_______________________________________
B757 Family - 158 @ 15.6 years average

B757-200 96 @ 18.3 Avg Age [Oldest 21 y/o, Newest 11 y/o] UA
B757-200 41 @ 13.1 Avg Age [Oldest 16 y/o, Newest 9 y/o] CO
B757-300 21 @ 7.9 Avg Age [Oldest 10 y/o, Newest 6 y/o] CO
_______________________________________
B767 Family - 61 @ 12.5 years average

B767-200 10 @ 9.3 Avg Age [Oldest 10 y/o, Newest 9 y/o] CO
B767-300 35 @ 15.2 Avg Age [Oldest 19 y/o, Newest 9 y/o] UA
B767-400 16 @ 8.6 Avg Age [Oldest 10 y/o, Newest 8 y/o] CO
_______________________________________
B777 Family - 74 @ 11.2 years average

B777-200 52 @ 12 Avg Age [Oldest 15 y/o, Newest 8 y/o] UA
B777-200ER 22 @ 9.3 Avg Age [Oldest 12 y/o, Newest

[Edited 2010-10-02 18:12:38]

User currently offlineGenYBusTrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 28958 times:

_______________________________________
B747-400 - 24 @ 15.3 Average [Oldest 21 y/o, Newest 10 y/o] UA

_______________________________________
Orders:

B737-xxx - 41 firm
A350-900 - 25 firm w/ 50 options
B777-200ER - 2 firm
B787-800 - 36 firm w/ 50 options
B787-900 - 14 firm

[Edited 2010-10-02 18:11:43]

User currently offlineBACCALA From United States of America, joined May 2009, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 28872 times:

Do you think they still get the 350's?

User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 28881 times:

I think the only order that might not make it to the New united would be the A350 order. It kind of depends on who is more in charge of the fleet. If UA is in charge then the A350 order will stay. CO may want to cancel them all together (which they probably can't without some penalty). Or they'll just keep it as a 777 replacement. I still wish they would just order the 747-8 but that's just wishful thinking unless CO sees great value in the 744s, the final decision would be if they stick with a 2 or 3 class config. If it's 3 then maybe they will go for a new 747 if it's just a 2 class then the 748 might be overkill

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 28794 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

There will be a gap between the E170 and B735s and an even bigger gap between the E170 and B73G/A319s when the B735s go so maybe E190/195s or Cseries?

B752s - maybe if Boeing can be convinced to build the B787-3 then UA could order 150-200 or would the B739s work as a B752 replacement.

Regional fleet?

CRJ 200s - Maybe no other real replacement will be built so -700 series?


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30600 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 28504 times:
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I see no immediate reason why the A350-900 order would be at risk. UA and CO have been in negotiations for some time prior to UA placing and firming the order, so I expect CO was "okay" with UA placing it. As the list notes, UA now has 74 of them in the fleet (I belive CO has cancelled all remaining 777-200ERs in favor of more 737-800s).

Now, if the 787-9 proves to be an epic 777-200/777-200ER replacement and the A350-900 falls flat on her face, maybe then we could see a cancellation, but just because some CO executives are moving into UA's offices does not, to me, signal an automatic rejection of all things Airbus.



As to the rest of the fleet, the 737-500s will certainly be sent to the boneyard ASAP. UA has already dumped theirs before the merger, so no reason to keep CO's around.

I believe the 757s will stay, as well. The 757-300s would work well for domestic North American trunk routes and that could free up some more 757-200s to be wingleted and converted for TATL ops.

CO seems to be able to make the 767-200ER work for them, so I see those staying for those routes CO deployed them on. The 767-300ER and 767-400ER fleet will be replaced with the 787-8 over time. I do not see the A350-800 in the UA fleet.

I think the future of the 747-400 fleet hinges on the success of the A350-1000 and what Boeing does with the 777-300ER. I think UA would prefer a large twin over a four-holer, so if the A350-1000 and/or 777-300ER(X)/777NG can match the payload-range curve of the 747-400 out of all the airports the 747-400 operates to/from, they will go for the twin.

If they have to purchase a VLA, I am inclined to believe it would be the 747-8.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 28367 times:

Does anybody know whether CO 752s with winglets could operate IAD-Western Europe without payload restrictions?

User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 28341 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
CRJ 200s - Maybe no other real replacement will be built so -700 series?

I'm hoping they standardize on the ERJ for the 50-seat fleet and bring in either E-195s/C-Series/NextGen A or B offering in that size to bridge the gap between the 70 seaters and the 73G/A319.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
I see no immediate reason why the A350-900 order would be at risk.

I don't see one either. Granted, neither airline currently has an Airbus widebody, but UA has a sizeable fleet of A320s, so dealing with Airbus models will be nothing new to the combined airline.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):

As to the rest of the fleet, the 737-500s will certainly be sent to the boneyard ASAP. UA has already dumped theirs before the merger, so no reason to keep CO's around.

I'm not so sure these don't stick around for at least a little while. There IS a need for an aircraft between the larger RJs and the other narrowbodies. Granted, the 735 is only incrementally lower in seats than the A319, but it's also optimized for a much different mission.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4378 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 17 hours ago) and read 26810 times:

Please, dump the 735's,


The sooner the better !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 17 hours ago) and read 26776 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 8):

IIRC, they are well in the range of IAD to UK and most of Europe.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 17 hours ago) and read 26715 times:

Quoting BACCALA (Reply 4):
Do you think they still get the 350's?

Yes. The A350 will most likely be a very nice airplane. Secondly, I would have to question whether they could get an alternative in the same timeframe as the A350 anyway. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see an order for 787-9s either, as its own order or converted from -8s. It might make sense to eventually replace 767s with 787-8s and replace 777s and 747s with A350s on longer flights and 787-9s on shorter ones.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 26234 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 9):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
CRJ 200s - Maybe no other real replacement will be built so -700 series?

I'm hoping they standardize on the ERJ for the 50-seat fleet and bring in either E-195s/C-Series/NextGen A or B offering in that size to bridge the gap between the 70 seaters and the 73G/A319.

I certainly hope the ERJs stay. if the CRJ2s do go then how will UA make up for the lost capacity if basing the 50seat fleet on the ERJs?


User currently onlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 26135 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
As to the rest of the fleet, the 737-500s will certainly be sent to the boneyard ASAP. UA has already dumped theirs before the merger, so no reason to keep CO's around.

Well, except for the fact that you can't just drop 35 planes without significantly cutting capacity. I don't think they're ready to do that just yet. Perhaps once they figure out which routes will be dropped, they'll have a better idea of how they can utilize the combined fleet best, but that's probably a year or two away still. Even then, there's not many routes that UA and CO overlap on. My guess is that the 735s will stay but slowly be replaced.

Pre-merger UA announced that they will start investigating narrowbody fleet refresh in 2011, most likely to hear from both Boeing and Airbus (and Embraer and Bombardier too).

Quote:
I think the future of the 747-400 fleet hinges on the success of the A350-1000 and what Boeing does with the 777-300ER.

The 744 fleet is dead. United announced when they placed the A350 order that it was to replace the 747s and some 777s. They ordered 25 A350-900s, almost exactly the same number of 747-400s that they have in service. Some of those may be converted to A350-1000 orders, but either way they're getting A350s. (And they have no choice in accepting the A350s; I'm guessing the cancel penalty is huge on that order since UA paid for part of it by deferring some A320 deliveries). Like BMI727 said, only future widebody order I see is more 787-9s, since UA only ordered the 787-8s and they still have a lot of 767s to replace over time.

Narrowbody is much more interesting. Next to Delta the combined UA will operate the largest 757 fleet. Since the 739ER can't be used in all the same routes without restrictions, UA will either need Boeing/Airbus to extend the range of their NG narrowbodies (re-engine or otherwise), or UA will need to replace some of those 752s with widebodies. Since a lot of 752s are approaching 20 years old, the decision will need to be made sooner than any other decision, given the delivery slots for even 737s are a ways out, let alone the 787-8.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 26139 times:

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 9):
I'm hoping they standardize on the ERJ for the 50-seat fleet

Why would United care about standardization? They aren't the ones training pilots or maintaining the aircraft. Really their worries about what 50 seat jet to use for regional flights is based on whether or not the plane can fly the routes they want and whether or not the contractor passes on any savings their fleet can provide.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLouieP2186 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 26001 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
As to the rest of the fleet, the 737-500s will certainly be sent to the boneyard ASAP. UA has already dumped theirs before the merger, so no reason to keep CO's around.

No not exactly. Most of the 737-500's are 1993-1996 models. UA I believe had the 737-300's which are almost 10 years older than the 500's. Now after "UNITED" takes more 737's (41 on order) which are mostly 8/9/9ER's that will free up the 700's to replace the 500's.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2297 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 25679 times:

Quoting LouieP2186 (Reply 16):
UNITED" takes more 737's

Didn't CO recently have more 737-700s on order?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 592 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 25668 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 10):
Please, dump the 735's,
Quoting LouieP2186 (Reply 16):
No not exactly. Most of the 737-500's are 1993-1996 models

Yes, they are too young to dump. CAL had planned to do that -- but look at them now, they still find the planes useful to all kinds of destinations, often replacing former 50-seaters. When the new UA figures out how to let mainline pilots fly 75+ seat aircraft, then the 735s may go away.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 14):
The 744 fleet is dead. United announced when they placed the A350 order

Yes, an often repeated thought. But it was the old UA who decided that an A380 or a B748 would not suit them. The new UA will want to maximize its Asian routes -- and how to do that without VLAs?

CO's ordered 787s have been very much delayed, yet they have not complained out loud about it. CO certainly is due some kind of compensation besides tons of 738s. The new UA could use that to gain good 748 pricing. I think it all depends upon the price of a 773ER v. a 748i.

I can't see UA with an A380.

If Boeing makes the 748 pricing arrangements sweeter, with early (ha, ha) delivery dates, UA might just pony up. The New UA will continue to need 747s, IMHO.

Some of their older 744s are fixin', within five years, to hit the trail to nowheresville...to be replaced by what? An "Extra-Wide-Body" 350?


User currently offlineLouieP2186 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 25649 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 17):
Didn't CO recently have more 737-700s on order?

No we dropped at 777 for 13 or 14 more 737's but I don't believe it's in our plans for more 700's. 8/9/9ER's is what we want for now. I know the begining of next year we take a new 9ER and I think a few more 8's.


User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 592 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 25528 times:

I remember how disorienting it was, back around 1999-2000, when CO was accepting new 735s and 737NGs at the same time. Their final Classic 737 deliveries overlapped their NG models' first ones, very striking at the time.

The thirty-some-odd 73Gs CO/UA has will not disappear soon, either,

+ + + + + +

It is probably too soon to expect a new aircraft order from UA. Farnsborough, anyone?


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1302 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 25235 times:

Not taking the A350s would be rather daft, except of course if Untied Continents have no intentions of running an efficient fleet - somehow I don't think that's in the cards. As we've seen with other airlines, the 787 and A350 can happily live side-by-side and complement each other quite nicely; 787-8 to replace 767s and A350-900 to replace 777s. The size of the combined UAL/COA wide-body fleets certainly allow for both.

As for narrowbodies, let's see if Airbus does indeed launch the A32xNEO. If they do, it would be ingenious not to purchase those to replace older 737s and large part of the (non ETOPS) 757s.

Don't see a 747-8 in my crystal ball; apart from just 2 airlines everybody else looking at that size aircraft has had long looks at it and the A380 and came out in favour of the Big Bus. Besides, does UACO have any need for such a large aircraft, or can a A350-1000 / 777-300ER do the trick?

Going single-source can be a good idea, but if the other purveyor of aircraft have excellent models on offer it might not be a wise move.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineLouieP2186 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 25073 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 21):
If they do, it would be ingenious not to purchase those to replace older 737s and large part of the (non ETOPS) 757s.

All of "Continental's" 757-2/300 Fleet are ETOPS, I don't know about "UNITED". Yet "Continental" has made it quite clear they do not want Airbus' and that's why their 737-8/9/9ER orders are high to free up the 700's to replace the 500's.


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1302 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 12 hours ago) and read 24609 times:

Quoting LouieP2186 (Reply 22):
Yet "Continental" has made it quite clear they do not want Airbus' and that's why their 737-8/9/9ER orders are high to free up the 700's to replace the 500's.

If a public traded company refuses to purchase products from vendor "A" out of nothing but spite, even if said products offer a saving over those from vender "B", then one should expect the owners (shareholders) to haul them over burning coal.

In this context: If Airbus launches the A32xNEO and Boeing does not follow suit, and the Airbus products delivers on its promises, it would be almost criminally negligent of any airline looking to renew or update a narrowbody fleet not seriously consider the offering. By all means, if Boeing offers financial incentives that matches any operational advantage an A32xNEO might have, that should of course be taken into account. However, Airbus tried that with the A346 vs B773ER and, as we all know, that didn't work.

There is nothing clever about single-sourcing for an airline with the size and diversity of UA/CO - in fact the opposite is true. Look at all the worlds biggest airlines; with less than a handful of exceptions they all operate main-line aircraft from both A and B, and does so quite profitable too.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinedelawareusa From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 23073 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 10):
Please, dump the 735's,


The sooner the better !

Why? Great aircraft, unique to the fleet with medium range.


25 pnwtraveler : I think the future of the 744 fleet and any possibility of a 748i order will come down to loads and experience the first post merger year. If combinin
26 BlueSky1976 : On the upper end of capacity, the future of United lies with the combination of A350-1000/-900 and 787-8/-9. The lower end will be interesting: for no
27 Antoniemey : I would say that depends on what kind of scope agreement they get with the pilots. There are too many ERJs flying for CO for them to just disappear,
28 BMI727 : They owned ExpressJet. For the people who are actually training pilots and have to keep a spares inventory, standardization is important. But when th
29 JBo : Their ability to standardize regional fleets is largely limited by the language in their already signed contracts. For example, United simply cannot
30 Antoniemey : True, but even when they decided to bring in another express carrier, they went to one that flew ERJs. And then when CRJs were brought in temporarily
31 Post contains images kgaiflyer : The answer is yes. BMI pioneered IAD-MAN service with leased 752s . And it bombed. Upscale Washingtonians refuse to buy tickets on transAtlantic 752s
32 bmacleod : Pricing will decide if UA (under CO management who aren't Airbus lovers) will keep the A350 order or cancel and choose 773ERs instead. Really don't se
33 flyiguy : That may be true then but Open Skies to ORLY does very well... Just my 0.02
34 kgaiflyer : You're right. So 752 service by CO/UA out of Dulles will have to be of the P.S. variety -- *all* business or *all* premium.
35 flyiguy : Wouldn't have to be but if it was i'm sure it would do very well since the DC metro area seems to always have people with money coming out of their a
36 KC135TopBoom : I agree with that. The new UA will be involved with Boeing, as is DL, WN, and AA on the decision later this year or early next year on the replacemen
37 FlyHossD : There are several interesting comments on CO's 737-500s in this thread. I have another perspective to add. A big motivation for CO to plan to shed the
38 ckfred : There was an article in the WSJ, when the speculation about a UA-CO merger was becoming public. The article said that if the two carriers merged, and
39 Stitch : If CO is against the A350, why did they let UA order it in the first place?
40 jfklganyc : ""Continental" has made it quite clear they do not want Airbus' and that's why their 737-8/9/9ER orders are high to free up the 700's to replace the 5
41 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Sounds painful. Perhaps CO/UA might pioneer TATL 752 service from DCA? The old National Airport terminal building is a perfect place for a new FIS fa
42 STT757 : The A350 orders are not being cancelled, I think some if not all of the A350 orders will be converted to A350-1000. If not than I can see the A350-900
43 UALWN : You have it all figured out, don't you? Any facts to base this on? Or is it all just speculation? The new UA has as many ex-old-UA senior executives
44 Carls : Can you please provide us with the link where such statement was made by any Continental officer.....No offense here; but I really doubt this has bee
45 STT757 : It will be CO's Businessfirst aircraft, not PS aircraft. CO has had overwhelming success with their trans-Atlantic 757s since their first route (EWR-
46 SEPilot : The only possible re-engine is to put the same engines (but new ones) back on. They cannot put the 748 engines on, if that's what you were thinking.
47 kgaiflyer : Oh, it's much worse than that. Talking with the ticket counter agent in El Paso yesteday, she didn't even know there had been a merger. And on Contin
48 kgaiflyer : Yes, that's the problem. EWR and IAD are apples and oranges.
49 STT757 : Your right, New Jersey is more affluent.
50 Post contains images kgaiflyer : We're off topic, but you obviously don't watch MTV. If I were asked ( and no one did ) I would say IAD had more the personality of IAH than of EWR.
51 MadameConcorde : I hope they will buy A380s for their Transpacific routes and maybe even for some Transatlantic routes. Somewhere between 12 to 20 aircrafts would seem
52 BMI727 : Almost certainly, but we may not be able to rule out a few ex-UA PW powered 757s getting winglets (if they don't have them already), ETOPS, and a ref
53 columba : Even though I am an A.net member for quite some time it still amazes me how some people are so negative when it comes to Airbus and US airlines. Readi
54 CFBFrame : Are there not some pilot union rules that preclude CO from having regional a/c larger than 50 seats? What then happens with all the regional a/c UA ha
55 AviationAddict : I just flew on a CO 735 last weekend and the aircraft was in excellent condition. Aside from the lack of IFE (which, given the 39 minute flight from
56 CALPSAFltSkeds : Tell me then if the connections that CO puts through the EWR hub are apples and those through IAD are oranges. Premium connection traffic, yeh right.
57 charlienorth : Seems to be based on emotion and nothing else. There seems to be a "if it's not boeing, I'm not going" and there is no basis for this. There is no re
58 keesje : Maybe A321 NEO's, 777-300ER's and CS300s..
59 Post contains links washingtonian : I agree with this. I guess none of us really know which 767 routes out of IAD are "under-performing" but I would be very surprised if we don't see so
60 Post contains images kgaiflyer : You mean keep doing what they're *already* doing?
61 scorpy : Its possible one of the LHR flights could go 757. UA normally operate 4x daily in the summer, but this year it was only 3. Maybe next year it could b
62 Post contains images kgaiflyer : As UA does to west coast cities, it could be IAD-LHR-EWR-LHR-IAD or perhaps there could be EWR-CDG-IAD-CDG-EWR. Or maybe even IAD-FRA-EWR-FRA-IAD. Or
63 GenYBusTrvlr : Here's my opinion: New United goes all Boeing for narrow body aircraft - not because of a gentleman's agreement but rather because of timing. The narr
64 kgaiflyer : Since the mid-Atlantic has a large Welsh diaspora, then perhaps a 757 out of IAD to CWL.
65 scorpy : I actually think the merger makes the chances for a VLA even less than for the standalone airlines. Take a city like Shanghai for example. Today, the
66 drerx7 : All this talk about 748s, 380s, and 350s being cancelled...I think the next year will determine all of that. United has some 744s in the desert, lets
67 BMI727 : CWL hasn't even been able to get service from DL or CO during their expansion with 757s and Id have guess that VFR traffic couldn't support the route
68 SEPilot : I doubt very much that UA will cancel the A350's. Remember that UA had so specifically stated that they wanted the entire order to go to one manufactu
69 washingtonian : A lot of people in this thread are ignoring that United specifically ordered the A-350s to replace its B747 fleet. Of course now that they are a merge
70 GenYBusTrvlr : Your point is valid - and they may go that way. However, UA and CO are probably the most disciplined of all the legacies in terms of pushing people t
71 baw716 : As an airline management expert, I am a strong believer that the more aircraft types you have, the higher your costs. The more manufacturers you have,
72 BMI727 : To a point, perhaps, but the problem is that most of the fleets you say need to go are large. That means that they will be difficult to replace, but
73 LouieP2186 : Thank You! CHQ didn't have enough ERJ's to cover the contract so they went to the CRJ which they didn't know how to fly along with weight and balance
74 Carls : Ah, Ok it is just your impresion. Then I will suggest you to change your statement to: I will make it very clear, I don't want any Airbus in the flee
75 Post contains links STT757 : Your citing counties, I'm citing States. When it comes to the wealthiest States NJ is #2 (just recently lost the #1 title to MD due to Wall Street's
76 drerx7 : UA does not have any 320 families on order. Continental 757-200s are all ETOPS and only the 753s acquired from ATA are ETOPS.
77 mrskyguy : I agree. I can speak from a position of "comfort" that the B787 fleet is definitely expected to continue in to the "nUAL" fleet, which would lead me
78 LouieP2186 : I could be wrong but wasn't the B787 and A350 order placed before merger talks or the "formal" announcement? I am a Continental Employee and all this
79 mcdu : Are yout a self proclaimed expert? You don't seem to have a clue about where the A model 777's are flown. The A flies to ALL markets except Asia. Eve
80 washingtonian : Why cite the entire state? The southern half of NJ probably doesn't use EWR, just like people living in the southern half of Virginia probably don't
81 FlyHossD : No, there is no rule preventing CO from operating RJs with more than 50 seats. The Scope clause simply requires that pilots on the CO seniority list
82 Stitch : It was before the announcement, but I am sure UA appraised CO of their intentions to order the A350 and CO "signed off" on the decision (as in they i
83 JBo : I can't see the New UA having a viable operation with a significant gap between 50-seat aircraft and mainline capacity aircraft. The 70-seat aircraft
84 LouieP2186 : If you took a B737 pay and cut it in half and made that E170/175/190/195 pay you could get away with bringing regional flying back in house which is
85 columba : Personal opinion nothing else. Sorry your fathers opinion does not count for UA fleet decision. Qantas seems to think differently having ordered many
86 LouieP2186 : I was curious about the A380 so I asked them about it and my Qantas friends stated "If you like the smell of burning plastic go buy it" and "they are
87 BMI727 : Was your friend around when the 747 was new?
88 LouieP2186 : No they have been with Qantas for 15 years now.
89 VC10er : Selfishly i must ask: i fly UA p.s. very, very often. I love that plane. Now, I'm also old enough to remember the mini 767 both AA and UA (and i remem
90 BMI727 : So, they may not be able to make the distinction between junk and new airplane syndrome. I suspect that in a year or two there will be some mechanics
91 Post contains images Schweigend : The nine original 757-324s delivered to CO may get ETOPS upgrades. After all, the first 12 non-ETOPS 737-924s they received have now been upgraded to
92 CALPSAFltSkeds : That's probably correct and the 777 flying may be placed out of a UA hub or for expansion. However, the turns don't work in IAH and EWR. That would r
93 LouieP2186 : Ok, ok I get your point.
94 DC8FanJet : For those that recall where Gordan Bethune came from, the Continental/Boeing connection is very simple. Boeing helped Continental avoid a third Ch.11
95 LouieP2186 : Yes this is why I can not see them sticking with the Airbus fleet but time will tell as well with them trying to bring regional flying back "in house
96 Schweigend : Well, aircraft numbers 401-412 now sport "ETOPS" on their NLG doors. This was completed about six months ago. The nine 757-324s NLG doors still have
97 BlueSky1976 : He's a well-known a.net Airbus basher, nothing more, nothing less. This will not happen, unfortunately. United plans to go after revenues, not capaci
98 FlyASAGuy2005 : BOD approves fleet planning. Kind of a "tough" when it comes to shareholders. CRJ differences can be taught in half a day if not less. Althouhg I agr
99 Post contains images Antoniemey : OK, since this is a speculation thread... I'm going to speculate. I'm looking longer-term here... taking into account the upcoming next generation of
100 FlyHossD : Hmmm... Yet Air Canada manages to operate E175s as mainline aircraft. Have you seen jetBlue's pay scale for their E190s? It's not even close to half
101 LouieP2186 : Yes my father says the B767-200 are junk and I don't disagree with you their.
102 Antoniemey : Yes, they can... But it's still going to be a factor. I will say, though, from a ramp perspective, a CRJ is easier to work than an ERJ... and nicer o
103 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : That I can attest to. I have worked the 145s and CR2s and much prefer the CRJs. Bin is lower to the ground for easy access, no bin tie downs, easier
104 TOMMY767 : This argument is extremely conceited. Who cares if NJ or NOVA is richer?
105 Post contains links and images zippyjet : Aviation-Designs.Net:Design © ToshioboyTemplate © Unknown Figured a quick visit to modified would add to the speculation. Aviation-Designs.Net:Desig
106 LouieP2186 : The biggest thing at least from the Continental side of this merger is we don't want to see anyone lose their jobs. All Continental and ExpressJet Pi
107 RTWflyer : Sorry, but IMHO there is no way the A380 is going to fit into the new UA. I could see 748i's for high capacity/prestige routes but that is all.
108 UALWN : But UA ordered 787s and 350s side-by-side, fully expecting to operate both types, as so many other airlines are planning to do. What's wrong with tha
109 LouieP2186 : Boeing is pricey I get that. But the average life of a Airbus (from what I hear) is about 15 years.....so you get what you pay for?
110 columba : What Airbus are you refering to: A300, A310, A32x, A330, A340 or A380 ? 30 years old A300s are still hauling fright around the world and are build li
111 LouieP2186 : Your correct in your assuming. The A320's I hear is 15-20 years. I don't know the life span of there widebodies.
112 Post contains images Schweigend : A350s do seem to be a good 777 replacement. I don't think UA will kill the order. When the time comes, and if they decide they don't really want the A
113 Carls : LouiP2186, the order was first, but just two months before. I am absolutely sure, and I guess you will agree with me, that this order was placed duri
114 drerx7 : That could be solved easily. LHR could become a route as well, the birds would be on positioning flights between the hubs like what is done now at UA
115 UALWN : Pricey? 737NGs and 32Xs are priced very similarly. Both manufactures adjust their asking prices to the conditions of the market as they deem necessar
116 SEPilot : The only objective figures that are available are the current design life limits, which puts the A320 at 48,000 cycles and the 737 at 75,000. However
117 UALWN : True. On the other hand, it is uncommon for first-rate airlines to keep their planes for much longer than 20 years, so 48,000 cycles would be enough.
118 Stitch : But the argument being put forward by a number of people is that CO will not operate an Airbus aircraft and now that they are helping run the show, t
119 FlyHossD : I'm also concerned about jobs for all CO and UA employees. So let's hope that all furloughed employees at UA are recalled very soon. Unfortunately, i
120 FlyASAGuy2005 : I understand the argument but I would have to call BS in my humble opinion. There's two sides to it. First, I'll say again that UA was still a separa
121 United1 : I'm sure CO had nothing to do with UAs choice of the 787 and the 350. UA and CO were not even involved in merger negotiations until after the 350/787
122 BMI727 : I think it has a shorter design life, but Airbus can extend it by doing a bit of testing and sending in some paperwork.
123 FlyASAGuy2005 : That's what I've heard as well. It's only a matter of $$$, certification, and paperwork entries.
124 mogandoCI : The 787-8 and 787-9 is definitely more important than A350. All trunk routes are already serviced, so new growth is mostly long-and-thin, the domain t
125 BMI727 : Many 757s are flying to seasonal markets, and of course the reason that you fly a 757 nonstop is to get a better yield through premiums for nonstop f
126 SEPilot : But the lifespan definitely affects a plane's residual value. Just because an airline only keeps a plane for 20 years, if it has another 10 or 20 yea
127 BMI727 : That's about how I understand it. Anyway, I think that Airbus will probably put in the effort to make the life as long as their customers want. I kin
128 UALWN : What about the routes currently served by 744s?
129 keesje : Airbus is pricey I get that. But the average life of a Boeing (from what I hear) is about 15 years.....so you get what you pay for? Can you imagine s
130 drerx7 : However, the airbus statement made by the poster can be supported.
131 YULWinterSkies : in previous thread:Talk Of United Merger And The A-380? Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 5): 'Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 4): /EWR-NRT, ORD-HKG, I dont thin
132 Post contains images laca773 : CO already has 73H ETOPS flying LAX-HNL/OGG along with the 739ERs. They have a great mix of 767s. The UA 763ERs need to have blended winglets added s
133 dl767captain : I still think the 748 is the biggest they would go. It just doesn't seem like they have enough traffic to warrant an A380. The 748 would give them ni
134 brilondon : I think that the majority of airlines world wide would never purchase an aircraft for only about 15 years of service. This just doesnt make sense. As
135 CALPSAFltSkeds : The problem is with cargo/luggage capacity. The 752 has 1,790 cubic feet and a stated range of 3900NM.. The 73G has 955 cubic feet without aux tanks
136 boilerla : The A350s, per both United's PR and through introspection, are to replace the 744s. UAL ordered 25 A350s, and UAL has exactly 24 744s (though only 18
137 dl767captain : Seems convenient that UA happens to have 25 +50 options for the A350.... Those delivery dates could be pretty far out and used to replace the 777s in
138 sydaircargo : UA could use that A380 on LAX-SYD-MEL-LAX to compete with the QF product on that route. the 747 in use there by UA is a bit out of date by now.
139 laca773 : UA's 744s are more than a bit out of date. They are ancient. Sure they placed in F & C cabins, but the way it is now, QF offers a much better pro
140 keesje : I wonder why folks here think replacing cargo capable 400+ seat quads with significantly smaller 777W or A350s is such a good idea. Last time I check
141 UALWN : UA just installed new state-of-the-art F and C cabins on their 744. They are far from "dumpy". UA clearly have no intention to retire them in the nex
142 Post contains links and images keesje : Everyone who thinks United replacing full 744s on the booming Asian metropoles with 300 seat A350s is a genius move, raise your hand..
143 mauriceb : Although im certainly not an A380 fan to say the least, there is a good point for UA to order them in the future. Although they might struggle to fill
144 william : Its a given CO management favors Boeing. With that stated it would be foolish for the new UA not to use Airbus to wring even bigger discounts from Boe
145 UALWN : Yep, as if Boeing (and Airbus) won't see them coming from miles away...
146 Post contains links and images keesje : Delta takes over NWA (having Airbus fleet) but Delta has a preference for Boeing. United (having Airbus fleet) takes over Continental but still, a pre
147 mauriceb : Oke, after that picture i really hope that they will never buy the A380... that is just extremely ugly.. ?? Airlines don't tend to send different prod
148 william : Keese,believe what you want to believe but don't be surprised to see Boeing win the lion share of orders (their discounts would make Ryan Air jealous)
149 keesje : Product consistancy is very important. Crew service, seats, entertainment, catering, bar service etc must be the same. VLA and twins would still fly
150 william : If Boeing senses its favorite customers are looking at the 380 in serious numbers, it might force Boeing to rethink Y3. Keejse double decker twin may
151 BMI727 : Well for one thing, the people running airlines seem to agree. Of course you have to remember that Boeing already cut them a good enough deal to skip
152 Post contains links keesje : Who is them ? Not United apparently.. It's a complicated green logic. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...nes-spar-over-ex-im-financing.html[Edite
153 pnwtraveler : Overall growth in flying of 5% doesn't mean at all that every airline will grow by 5%. Some of that growth will be by LCC and local services that won'
154 seabosdca : It's not about the aircraft. Which is more comfortable: an SQ 77W or an Austral A380? United is replacing 744s with A359s in order to "chop off the b
155 Post contains images seabosdca : What a dumpy, outdated aircraft!
156 STT757 : Take Hong Kong for instance, as of today UA serves Hong Kong from Chicago, Newark, San Francisco, Guam, Ho Chi Minh City, Singapore. The merged carri
157 BMI727 : Continental, Delta, and American.
158 Post contains images Antoniemey : Delta did have a preference for Boeing... whether Delta as it exists now still has a preference for Boeing has yet to be seen. Of course, Delta has,
159 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Years ago, Northwest made it clear to their Platinum flyers that they were downsizing from 744's to 332's for that exact reason. The 332's were suppo
160 Stitch : I also recall Willie Walsh over at BA whinging about EU financing allowing EK to send all those shiny new A380s to LHR...
161 davs5032 : If they think A3510's are going to be big enough, it's the way to go...but i don't think they going to be getting them for another 7/8 years and the
162 keesje : Continental will be gone, UA has many busses. Delta has many busses. Delta's MT & CEO also have NWA roots.. That's an old legend that continues t
163 laca773 : They are early into this merger and things may change. Yes! They are! It seems many people forget about the back of the plane and how old and dated s
164 Post contains links and images United1 : The only thing dated in the back is lack of PTVs....they changed out the CRTs/projectors and put in LCDs, changed the carpets/seat covers and bulkhea
165 PITingres : You're not listening. The remaining brand name is UA but the management is CO at the top with a mix of CO and UA. "Continental will be gone" is a non
166 Post contains images kgaiflyer : I noticed that *many* don't get it. The *new* UAL is *not* the old Continental and *not* the old United. Whatever secret handshakes each might have h
167 BMI727 : But they still have the signed and sealed deal from Boeing too. This isn't about personal loyalty, or some sort of jingoistic flag waving. It's about
168 SonomaFlyer : United made the 350 orders with CO's knowledge. CO didn't object. Though the 744's will be around a while, I doubt they will be a long term solution.
169 tsugambler : Oh, I don't know... I'd prefer to bring my own IFE as long as there are available power outlets and WiFi. Of course, I don't have kids, either, so yo
170 United1 : Do you have a source for that? UA and CO were not involved in merger talks when UA negotiated and placed the order. I think that is what people are m
171 kgaiflyer : Yes, but whose money is being used for the purchases? Continental's money? United's money? The new UAL's money? In spite of 'who has been loyal to who
172 seabosdca : Tell that to BA, NH, and SQ. All three of those carriers have made nice improvements by keeping average aircraft size steady or shrinking (except the
173 LouieP2186 : No I talk to a lot of MX guys. My dad's been with AA for 25 years and used to work on the Airbus Fleet when AA had it, and 2 of my Qantas friends hav
174 BlueShamu330s : Would you like fries with that ? 12 years of flying Airbus types, and I can't say anything any more derogatory about them that couldn't be equalled b
175 LouieP2186 : Hey i'm trying to start nothing. I like to learn as much as I can about the industry and planes. If your going to take my comments personally than do
176 kgaiflyer : Yup. Airbus has administrative offices in Herndon Virginia near Washington-Dulles - engineering facilities in Mobile Alabama and Wichita Kansas - tra
177 LouieP2186 : And that I do like!
178 seabosdca : What is outdated except the lack of PTVs? And very few passengers in the back take up-to-date-ness into account when booking, anyway, especially when
179 328JET : I am sure that United will order the A380 very quickly. There are a lot of routes into/from STAR hubs which will have high demand in the next years. B
180 SEPilot : Dream on. They have expressed zero interest in the A380, the 748, and the 77W. Nothing that has happened changes that.
181 Antoniemey : How far into the future are you prognosticating? The 757 isn't going to disappear for at least a decade.
182 KGRB : Why would they order the A321 or A321NEO when they already have the 737-900ER in the fleet? Hasn't Smisek already said he's not interested in the A38
183 328JET : Yes, you are right. I have forgotten the B757. At least the -300 will stay in the fleet. I am not so sure about the -200, which i see to be replaced
184 kgaiflyer : The 321 is a stretched 320 with cockpit commonality to the 319/320-- requiring no pilot retraining.
185 KGRB : Yes, I know, but that doesn't answer my question. The 739ER is *already* in the UA/CO fleet. Why add an additional type that serves the same purpose?
186 DC8FanJet : It's UnitedContinentalHolding's money now, nearly $9 billion in cash on hand. Guess they'll be able to make whatever decisions the new United managem
187 BMI727 : The 762s might be shifted around though, since those are probably the worst planes in the fleet economically. But they are younger and are generally
188 columba : The need a 757-200 replacement - at least for the older versions - the A321NEO with sharklets will be a better 757 replacement than the 737-900 is.
189 TOMMY767 : I doubt they will convert 15-20 year old UA 757s to match CO's RR product to Europe. My money is that they will continue to fly domestically from all
190 BMI727 : I don't think that they will either, but if they identify certain markets that are just out of reach, it would be an option.
191 Max Q : Yes, and over $30 Billion in debt. It's important to keep things in perspective.
192 laca773 : FYI, columba, there are marked operational differences between the 737-900 & 737-900ERs. CO flies both and before they received the ERs, those gi
193 Post contains images United1 : I have no idea where you got that number from but its no where near accurate....UA has around 7.5 billion in debt so unless CO brought 22.5 billion i
194 TOMMY767 : At the same time, contrary to what some might say, I HIGHLY DOUBT they will be retiring the UA 757s anytime soon. They are very necessary for the mer
195 Schweigend : I expect the new UA will finish installing winglets on all aircraft capable of it as soon as possible... I, too, doubt more PMUA 757s will be convert
196 KGRB : The NEO may be a better 757 replacement that the 739ER, but by all accounts, it doesn't look like it's going to be drastically better than the "five-
197 SEPilot : I believe that UA had a major Pacific presence, while CO had much less. I don't think that the combined traffic will change the picture much at all.
198 328JET : We were "talking" about the improvements of the A321 NEO against the B752 very often here. The result is always the same: 1. The B739ER is already av
199 UA933 : Boeing will come up with either an update of their 737 or an all new aircraft. So it's naive to say that choosing Airbus is the only way forward...
200 328JET : For sure Boeing will update their B737 as well. Take a look in my post above ( Reply179). I expect that the new UA will operate B737s and A32x side b
201 drerx7 : That is rediculous - you are talking about aircraft that are 'paper' airplanes and hypothetical ones at that - when talking about the 737 replacement
202 328JET : I know what i am talking about as my company is operating A321s and B752s side by side. I know the difference in fuel burn on same sectors and payloa
203 TOMMY767 : Very true. Even worse, the 739ERs have struggled on LAX-Hawaii so I'm sure there is some truth that UA will remove the 739ERs from LAX-HNL in the nea
204 drerx7 : Any hints on near term aircraft swaps between hubs?
205 TOMMY767 : It's all predictions at this point but my guesses would be 737 bases at ORD, IAD, and DEN and lot's of additional 757 domestic action at IAH and EWR.
206 drerx7 : I dont know if DL swap of 320s had much to do with the 738s vs the MD90s. The 320s have a longer range than the MD90s so they can reach more places f
207 KGRB : True; so why not stick with the 739ER? I simply do not see the point of adding the stop-gap A321NEO, when many are predicting that the next generatio
208 328JET : I would put a big question mark behind complete new narrowbodies in the next 15 years. BTW: The A321NEO is no 180 seater as you wrote. Both A321 and
209 Antoniemey : So could a re-vamped 737 with new engines and maybe (if Boeing decides it's worth it) a larger wing. For now, with the A321NEO still paper-only and t
210 Post contains images KGRB : Really? Because US seats 183 in their A321s. Isn't that a typical two-class configuration? It's not a question of whether the A321NEO will be a good
211 TOMMY767 : That won't happen for another 5-10 years. There aren't enough 739ERs to go around right now. There is nothing wrong with UA's 757s either. It would b
212 CALPSAFltSkeds : The problem with the 739ER on Hawaii is that CO didn't order aux tanks. Vs. the 738, the 739ER has 13,500# more TOW and weighs 6,500# more, leaving 6
213 TOMMY767 : True but granted that doesn't make UA's birds any less usable in the overall network. Those 757s are perfect for short haul, high density routes like
214 CALPSAFltSkeds : I totally agree. I think the best move would be for the CO aircraft, with lie-flats, fly exclusively to Europe everyday. From EWR, IAD and maybe ORD-
215 TOMMY767 : Back in the 1990s CO had 757s on domestic routes for a long time EWR to SAN/SFO/SEA/PHX etc. The strategy they went for by the mid-2000s was dumping
216 drerx7 : Why do you say that has not proven to be the best strategy? I think it has proven to be lucrative and the best strategy with what resources the airli
217 TOMMY767 : It kind of comes down the old saying "throwing all your eggs in one basket" however in this case it's more about right sizing lucrative transatlantic
218 kgaiflyer : Armchair-CEO-wise, both of you have good arguments. The thing is, there are still TATL 757 destinations to explore. For instance, one of the problems
219 STT757 : Then why did AA, DL, US, TWA, NWA, BA etc.. all follow CO's lead with deploying 757s on trans-Atlantic routes. CO's first trans-Atlantic 757 route wa
220 TOMMY767 : TWA isn't around anymore, BA doesn't do it anymore, NWA used them to certain cities from AMS on a limited basis, and clearly US and AA are just follo
221 drerx7 : Which is why I believe that the 739 will move to those shorter runs and the 757s will be moved to IAH/EWR as you have mentioned.
222 STT757 : UA has over 40 737 firm orders, they could be either 737-800s or 737-900ERs. Currently UA has 45 737-900s, that could easily double by 2013. That wou
223 328JET : More B739ER seem logical as a quick solution for some older B752s. But mid-term i expect the A321NEO to be ordered in addition. It would not be a comp
224 TOMMY767 : If they did that I wouldn't count on UA expanding anywhere. They'll need the lift. CO's network was squeezed so much between all the ERJ and 737s fre
225 boilerla : It's premature to say much until we know what Boeing will be doing with the 737. By end of this decade, UA's existing A319 & A320 fleet will be m
226 drerx7 : Agreed...however, I think that subsequent 739s will be the replacement for older 757s. I expect that older 757s will begin to leave the fleet in the
227 LipeGIG : Well, in my view United have a lot to do to find out the best product for many routes that right now demands equipment change. In one aspect i do see
228 Schweigend : And until early last decade, 757s were flying from GUM to various places like DPS, MNL, KIX, NGO, etc. to which DC10s formerly had flown. The Guam-ba
229 CALPSAFltSkeds : That would give the new UA a shot at some longer haul service from GUM like GUM-SYD/MEL/PER/ICN/SIN/PEK,etc. and other routes that may need a bit mor
230 LouieP2186 : In reference to the GUM-SYD route, do you really think that would fill? With UA and LAX-SYD and SFO-SYD I can't see that being a profitible route but
231 Antoniemey : By the time any of the 757s truly need replacing in that respect, there can be. I don't think they'll dump the 757s... in fact, given the relatively
232 laca773 : How many 739s does CO currently have in their fleet versus the new more advanced 739ERs they are taking delivery of currently? The standard 739s are
233 LouieP2186 : Ship # 401-412 are 900's and Ship # 414-442 are 900ER's we are due to recieve a few more 900ER's this year but we are mixing those with more 800's.[E
234 laca773 : Thanks for the information, Louie . I appreciate it.
235 LouieP2186 : No problem.
236 STT757 : CO have previously flown GUM-SYD and GUM-BNE-SYD with DC-10s. Help me with the math here, if UA retires 45 of their oldest 757s and replaces them wit
237 TOMMY767 : Forgot about that. When did they start doing this? Some other math: CO has ERJs flying around the system out of EWR and IAH that could very well be r
238 STT757 : The 737-800s and 737-900ERs are not going to be replacing ERJs. That will either be done with additional Cr-7s, ERJ-170s, Q-400s, C series aircraft or
239 CALPSAFltSkeds : There would be no traffic on a GUM-SYD route that is currently flying West Coast-SYD. You'd think the market from GUM would be Japan (multiple cities
240 drerx7 : They still fly to Cairns don't they.
241 LouieP2186 : CO's 900ER's are 2 seats shy of the same capacity as a 752 so no downsizing of routes. Still don't see it making money but ok. Colgan has more Q400's
242 Schweigend : Well, that was PMUA talking. 787s to replace 767s will remain the strategy, and I truly believe there will be a place in the new UA's fleet for the A
243 keesje : If anytime soon, it's between A321 (NEO) and 737-900ER (Plus). There are large A320 and 737NG fleets. The A321 has significant higher payload range,
244 Schweigend : Truly unbelievable given the new UA/CO set-up. I like the XWB idea -- it's wider than the A330 -- but still narrower than a 777. Another reason it's u
245 keesje : I guess there's a behind the scenes battle going on bewteen Boeing 777-300ER -X enhanced and the A350-1000XWB. I expect UA to fly on the 747-400 for
246 STT757 : The first CO 757-200 was delivered in May 1994, CO's first trans-Atlantic 757 route was EWR-MAN in May 1995.
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