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Air France Long Haul Fleet Update  
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17443 times:

Beside the anouncement of the future A380 destinations for next summer 2011 (YUL, IAD, MEX), Air France gave also some interesting informations about its long haul fleet :

B777

Air France will receive 4 brand new B77W before summer 2011 + 1 B77F.
They will be configured with 42J / 24W / 317Y
In January 2011, the first aircraft of this type will replace a B744 on the new non stop flight CDG-SGN-CDG starting Nov 2nd.
MIA and SFO should follow

Air France will also reconfigure 10 of its 25 B772ER with 35J / 24W / 250Y.

AF B777 various configurations will be :

B77W :

8P / 67J / 28W / 200Y
42J / 24W / 317 Y
14J / 36S / 422M

B772ER :

4P / 49J / 24W / 170Y
35J / 24W / 250Y

B744

Air France will finally keep a fleet of 7 B744 passengers until 2016
AF has decided a complete renovation of the interior cabin of the B744 with new seats, galley, lavatories etc ...
PTV will be installed in Y on the main deck.

Initillay planned to be replaced on a one for one basis by the new B77W, those aircraft will be finally kept in service to face the market growth.

Air France will also keep in service 2 B744F.


Concerning the A343, the fleet will be reduced from 18 to 15 aircraft.


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40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2758 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17343 times:

Thanks very much for the information. Do they intend to change the deliveries of the next A 380s?

MSN 052 - F-HPJE - 2011-Q1 (or rather beginning of Q2)
MSN 064 - F-HPJF - 2011-Q2
MSN 067 - F-HPJG - 2011-Q3
MSN 099 - F-HPJH - 2012

[Edited 2010-10-05 03:46:37]

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17259 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
B772ER :

4P / 49J / 24W / 170Y
35J / 24W / 250Y

Have the 772's all already been reconfigured in Y to 10 abreast? Or is this yet to be done?

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Air France will finally keep a fleet of 7 B744 passengers until 2016
AF has decided a complete renovation of the interior cabin of the B744 with new seats, galley, lavatories etc ...
PTV will be installed in Y on the main deck.

Very interesting. Seeing that KL has also installed PTV's in Y, apparantly they both feel the need to hang on to the 744's longer than originally anticipated. Either way, I'm very happy to see the 744 remain in the fleet for a while yet.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17230 times:

Thanks for the update.
The refurbishment of the 744s is good news... Will they have AVOD?



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17212 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
Have the 772's all already been reconfigured in Y to 10 abreast? Or is this yet to be done?

I think that all the 777s have now the 10-abreast config in Y



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2396 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17074 times:
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Good news to read AF keeps the 744s with a new interior.

COI version kept appart, I think the 42J / 24W / 317 Y version is the most flexible for AF to operate with, and the 8P / 67J / 28W / 200Y version for the very premium markets where the A380 is too big to operate to.

A bientôt,

FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16664 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 1):
Do they intend to change the deliveries of the next A 380s?

MSN 052 - F-HPJE - 2011-Q1 (or rather beginning of Q2)
MSN 064 - F-HPJF - 2011-Q2
MSN 067 - F-HPJG - 2011-Q3
MSN 099 - F-HPJH - 2012

Only 2 A380 are planned to be delivered in 2011 (F-HPJE in March & JF in May)... unless JE is ready and Airbus "pushes" AF to take it before, like it was done for JD.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
Have the 772's all already been reconfigured in Y to 10 abreast? Or is this yet to be done?

The entire B777 fleet (-200ER & -300ER) is reconfigured with 10 abreast in Y and it won't change.


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1060 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16656 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
AF has decided a complete renovation of the interior cabin of the B744 with new seats, galley, lavatories etc ...
PTV will be installed in Y on the main deck.

That's good news. Will GIG receive the 77W or it will keep the 744 for the time being? If the 744 gets switched, will the Première be offered (at last) there?



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlinesscaf001 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16291 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Air France will also reconfigure 10 of its 25 B772ER with 35J / 24W / 250Y.

Currently, La Premiere class is offered on 31 destinations (the last ones are NSI and DLA, in order to compete with LX I suppose). Do you think it will be reduced or increased in the future ? (some "medium-yield" destinations could be considered as "high-yield" destination according to demand)


User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16206 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
The entire B777 fleet (-200ER & -300ER) is reconfigured with 10 abreast in Y and it won't change.

That’s unfortunate, and I have adapted my signature to reflect this.

Now that I have decided not to fly on 3-4-3 777 (fortunately not many airlines have followed the paths of EK/AK/KL in this field) my only hope remains with the Premium Voyageur, but the small cabins lead to exaggerated prices most of the time (well from the point of view of the passenger, I am sure AF is happy to sell expensive tickets !) , and I have not been able to test it yet (to be able to get a first hand opinion on it, since I have read mixed reviews of the PV seat comfort of the).

My last try was for a CDG-MNL I will fly shortly, but once again it was not realistically possible.
AF Premium Eco (via HKG) was at 3800 euros (!), while the normal eco was at less than 900 euros…

So I ended with SQ at 1400 euros in “normal” eco, but the normal Eco on a SQ 380 has nothing to see with the normal Eco on an AF (or KL) 777 in 3-4-3.



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12515 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16111 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
The entire B777 fleet (-200ER & -300ER) is reconfigured with 10 abreast in Y and it won't change.

On routes where the A380 is operated alongside the 77W, the difference between 10 abreast 777s and 10 abreast A380s will be very noticeable!

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
1 B77F

Presumably going straight to FedEx - or even sold prior to delivery; FX is anxious for 772LRFs and it hardly makes sense to have one 77F.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Concerning the A343, the fleet will be reduced from 18 to 15 aircraft.

Will these get Y+? Are all of the A340s now in the same configurations; some time ago, they had a few different configs for the A340 fleet.

Presumably these will ultimately be replaced (along with the 332s and 772s) by either the A350 or 787.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2386 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16079 times:

Will the A340s get updated seats in both cabins,etc. From what I remember the A343 Economy product was a bit older then that offered the other fleet members.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12515 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16017 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
Will the A340s get updated seats in both cabins,etc. From what I remember the A343 Economy product was a bit older then that offered the other fleet members.

Just as I see your username, I can't help wondering what happens to all the WFU A340s - Olympic's four, AF's three (soon to be WFU, as per the thread starter), a few ex-AC aircraft being replaced by A333s at LX ... the numbers are mounting up. Has Airbus ever considered a freighter conversion for the 343 - or is it the case that the extra weight would further undermine an already poor performer?


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15958 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 12):
AF's three (soon to be WFU, as per the thread starter),

2 of these 3 have already been spoken for by Finnair which is taking them on lease from next year.

OA's 4 in storage is a shame, not sure what state they are in MX wise at this stage either.

Pilot21



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15929 times:
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Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Air France will receive...1 B77F.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
Presumably going straight to FedEx - or even sold prior to delivery; FX is anxious for 772LRFs and it hardly makes sense to have one 77F.

Airfleets says they still have F-GUOB and F-GUOC, so maybe they will be keeping a handful?

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Air France will also keep in service 2 B744F.

Are they still planning to close AF Cargo and shift the planes and business to Martinair?


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5591 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15873 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Concerning the A343, the fleet will be reduced from 18 to 15 aircraft.

Any knowledge of which A343 will be phased out? My sense of order is hoping it will be the 3 remaining A340-311 (F-GLZC, F-GLZH, F-GLZI).


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15608 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
Will these get Y+? Are all of the A340s now in the same configurations; some time ago, they had a few different configs for the A340 fleet.

Yes. 14 of them are already equipped with the Y+ (30J / 21W / 224Y). But tey wil not get the new Business Class V4 seat

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
Presumably going straight to FedEx

No. AF already operates 2 B77F and will keep a fleet of 5 Cargo aircraft, apparently (3 B77F + 2 B744F)


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15501 times:

Quoting TGV (Reply 9):
So I ended with SQ at 1400 euros in “normal” eco, but the normal Eco on a SQ 380 has nothing to see with the normal Eco on an AF (or KL) 777 in 3-4-3.

Please note that only KL's 4 77W (4 aircraft at this time) are configured with 10 abreast. Their 772 fleet (15 aircraft) is not, and AFAIK they are not planning to reconfigure them. To SIN for example, the 77W only flies 2 or 3 times per week, with a further connection to DPS. The SIN terminator flights are flown with the 772.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15451 times:

Nice to hear that AF will be keeping some 744s next to the sardine can 777s. 10 abreast in a 777 - well, that might be fine for models and children, but all others should turn their back from this really bad idea.

User currently offlineicna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15061 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 12):
what happens to all the WFU A340s

good question!!! there are 3 or 4 ex-GF stored at LDE, I just saw them yesterday. A couple of which without engines. Temporary storage???


User currently offlineFoxThree From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14368 times:

This is my first post, so please forgive me if this has been discussed already.

My question is; what is the difference in seat width between 9- and 10-abreast on the 777? If I take the 777's cabin width of 231 inches and assume two aisles at 24" wide per aisle and 2" wide armrests, I get 17.667"/seat at 9-abreast and 15.7" at 10 abreast. Does that sound about right? If so, I can certainly see why people complain so much about 10-abreast; you lose 2" per seat!


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14324 times:
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Quoting FoxThree (Reply 20):
My question is; what is the difference in seat width between 9- and 10-abreast on the 777?

In general, you lose an inch in seat cushion and seat back width going from 9-abreast (18") to 10-abreast (17.2").


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14085 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
In general, you lose an inch in seat cushion and seat back width going from 9-abreast (18") to 10-abreast (17.2").

Don't you also lose space at the armrest between seats?

Quoting icna05e (Reply 19):
there are 3 or 4 ex-GF stored at LDE, I just saw them yesterday. A couple of which without engines. Temporary storage???

In a time where a318's are being scrapped, nothing would surprise me  . I do hope they find a new home, maybe PY will take a second AF frame as has been rumored for a while.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6723 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12878 times:

Does it make economic sense to refurbish planes for 5-6 years ? It will please my neighbours who often take the 744 to GIG, anyway.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12409 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
Presumably these will ultimately be replaced (along with the 332s and 772s) by either the A350 or 787.

Presumably, and not until at least until 5-6 years if not more, as AF has yet to order the A350/787 or which ever combination of these. Which is fine as some of their A340s and all of the B772s are from the late 90's or early 00's and still have plenty of life. But I doubt the A330s will leave anytime soon until they are reaching the end of their life, ie not before ~ 2020 at the earliest.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
Does it make economic sense to refurbish planes for 5-6 years ?

Some planes have been refurbished after much less time than this, ie, the short lived 3-3-3 Y configuration on AF 77Ws.
DL is doing such right now on their 744s also, presumably not for much longer than 5-6 years neither as that would be pushing the frames after that...



When I doubt... go running!
25 LY777 : AF should have refurbished their 744s in 2006...(but at this time, the 744s were meant to leave the fleet in 2010)
26 TGV : Thanks for the info, I have updated my profile. But this is like Russian roulette ! For example the AMS-MNL flight is mentioned as "EQV" in Amadeus s
27 PlaneHunter : Have you ever flown on such a 777? I have done so several times and it has never been a problem - and I'm neither a model nor a kid. The difference i
28 gemuser : Comparing a DL B77L @ 3-3-3 & an EK B77W @ 3-4-3, as well as that mentioned above, the aisles are narrower, the circulating space around the door
29 PlaneHunter : I just flew on a TG 772 (non-ER) with 3-3-3. Oh yes, it did feel so spacious in these wide(r) aisles and in the area near the door and the lavs. But
30 Post contains images Kappel : Well, there are plenty of routes the 77W does not fly for KLM. MNL is indeed a 77W destination, but you could check the KLM website, that's usually q
31 FlySSC : I couldn't agree more ... I traveled several times in AF's B777 in Y and I can tell you that nobody even notice if there is 9 or 10 abreast. The most
32 fca767 : Tell me about it! I got back on 29th Sep on AF777-300 and was awful during a 12 hour singapore-paris...couldn't sleep at all at these terrible seats.
33 AirbusA6 : Well looking at Seatguru, AF haven't increased the legroom in the 10Y configuration, for forgive me for not being too enthusiastic. Indeed all their l
34 TGV : Different opinions ! I will not agree with FlySSC on the fact that "nobody even notice if there is 9 or 10 abreast." I have received complaints from
35 gemuser : IF such an aircraft exists I'd agree with you. In my experience it doesn't. Using the numbers on seat guru DL has 33" pitch/18" width, EK has 34'pitc
36 Post contains images seabosdca : Do you also find the 747 and 757 "totally unacceptable" on long haul? They have 17.2" seats.
37 phklm : Good luck on the 787, it will be as bad with 9 abreast.
38 gemuser : Don't fly B757s long haul, are none in this part of the world. Never flown in a 17.2" B747, 17.5 , 18 & 18.5" yes, all of which were better than
39 LipeGIG : Thanks for sharing ! I shall say that GIG for sure is a huge candidate for this new refurbished frames. The 77W is not so big as the 744 and if they
40 LY777 : At first, I was surprised to see AF keeping their 744s until 2016, but finally, they are known to use their a/c "until the end". Nice to see they will
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