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OAG Changes 10/8/2010:AA/DL/F9/FL/UA/WN/ZK  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7023 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9770 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route


Big change this week, so forgive typos PLEEZ

AA
BOS-SDQ 2/WK>0 APR-
DFW-LAX 16>17 FEB- VX RESPONSE
DFW-SFO 9>10 FEB- VX RESPONSE
ORD-CZM 0>1/WK FEB-
ORD-MEX 0>1 DEC-
ORD-MHK 0>1 FEB- REVERSES LAST WEEK
ORD-MSN 4>5 APR-
ORD-MSY 3>4 FEB-
ORD-PBI 2>3 FEB-
ORD-TPA 2>3 FEB-

SJU-JFK 3>4 APR-
SJU-ORD 2>1 APR-
SJU-AXA 4/WK>0 APR-
SJU-BOS 1>0 APR-
SJU-BWI 1>0 APR-
SJU-LRM 4/WK>0 APR-
SJU-NEV 4/WK>0 APR-
SJU-PAP 3/WK>0 APR-
SJU-PHL 1>0 APR-
SJU-POP 2/WK>0 APR-
SJU-SDQ 4>3 APR-
SJU-TPA 1>0 APR-

AF
MCO-CDG 3/WK>0 MAR-

CO
CLE-DAY 3>2 JAN-FEB
CLE-SBN 3>2 JAN-FEB

DL
FOLLOWING ARE JAN-FEB ONLY REDUCTIONS
ATL TO:
ABQ 3>2
BHM 13>12
CHS 9>8
CLE 7>6
DFW 11>10
ELP 3>2
HOU 7>6
IAH 8>7
ILM 7>6
MKE 7>5
MYR 6>5
PHF 7>6
PHL 11>10
ROC 5>4
SAP 5/WK>2/WK
STL 9>8

DTW TO:
ATL 12>10
BMI 2>1
BNA 7>6
CAE 2>1
CMH 7>6
CWA 4>3
HPN 5>4
JAX 3>2
MCI 5>4
MLI 4>3
MSY 2>1
YQB 2>1
YYZ 8>7

MEM TO:
AMA 3>2
MFE 3>2

MSP TO:
BIL 3>2
BNA 6>5
BZN 3>2
JAX 2>1
LEX 2>1
MLI 3>2
RDU 5>4
SLC 6>5

SLC TO:
BUR 4>3
SEA 8>7
TUL 2>1

ATL-DKR 0>3/WK JAN-
DTW-YHZ 1>0 DEC-
DTW-MHT 3>4 JAN-
DTW-HNL 3/WK>0 JAN-
DCA-BOS 11>10 JAN-FEB
JFK-BOS 6>5 JAN-
JFK-IAD 3>2 JAN-FEB
JFK-PIT 5>4 FEB-MAR
JFK-YHZ 1>2 DEC-
LAX-GDL 0>1 DEC- This has flipped twice already
MEM-MEX 0>1/WK JAN-
MSP-OMA 7>6 DEC-
MSP-ICT 3>2 DEC-FEB
SEA-KIX 1>6/WK JAN-FEB
SPN-NGO 1>2/WK DEC-FEB

F9
DEN-JAC 0>1 MAY- (319)

FL
ATL-IAD 3>4 DEC-
CAK-MCO 1>2 DEC-
BWI-SJU 2/WK>2 APR-
TPA-EYW 0>1 MAR-

M5
BFI-CLM 6>4 NOV-
ESD-BFI 1>0 NOV-
FRD-BFI 3>4 NOV-

NK
FLL-NAS 2>1 JAN-

UA
IAD-MHT 3>2 JAN-FEB
IAD-PIT 6>5 JAN-FEB
IAD-PVD 5>4 JAN-FEB
IAD-PWM 3>2 JAN-FEB
IAD-ROA 3>2 JAN-FEB
IAD-SAV 4>3 JAN-FEB
IAD-SFO 9>7 JAN-FEB
LAX-MCO 2>1 JAN-FEB
ORD-BUF 6>5 JAN-FEB
ORD-LAS 5>4 JAN-FEB
ORD-LAX 11>10 JAN-FEB
ORD-MCO 11>10 JAN-FEB
ORD-PVD 3>2 JAN-FEB
ORD-ROC 6>5 JAN-FEB
ORD-SFO 10>9 JAN-FEB
SFO-PHL 3>2 JAN-FEB
SFO-SEA 7>6 JAN-FEB

US
PHL-MBJ 2/WK>0 FEB-

WN
Because WN previously had no selling April schedule I have compared to February below. Fractions indicate non-daily ops. If it differs from what they announced, I have no idea why...

ABQ-ELP 1.0>1.8
ABQ-LAS 4.7>5.5
ABQ-LAX 3.4>3.8
ALB-BWI 4.5>5.7
AUS-MCO 1.0>2.0
BDL-BWI 6.8>7.5
BDL-MDW 1.9>2.8
BDL-PBI 0.0>1.0
BHM-SDF 1.0>1.8
BNA-DEN 2.7>3.7
BNA-JAX 2.8>3.7
BNA-LAS 2.0>2.8
BNA-MDW 6.4>7.4
BOI-GEG 2.7>2.0
BOI-PHX 0.0>1.0
BOS-BWI 7.4>8.4
BUF-BWI 4.8>5.7
BUF-LAS 1.5>2.0
BUF-MCO 3.3>4.2
BWI-ALB 4.5>5.7
BWI-BDL 6.8>7.5
BWI-BOS 7.5>8.4
BWI-BUF 4.8>5.7
BWI-CLE 2.8>3.7
BWI-CMH 3.7>4.7
BWI-DTW 2.9>3.7
BWI-FLL 4.5>5.2
BWI-HOU 2.8>3.8
BWI-IND 2.8>3.8
BWI-JAN 1.0>1.8
BWI-LAS 2.9>3.8
BWI-MCI 1.8>2.7
BWI-MCO 7.0>9.2
BWI-MDW 5.6>6.8
BWI-PHX 3.0>3.8
BWI-SAT 1.9>2.8
BWI-SDF 2.8>4.0
BWI-STL 3.7>4.8
CLE-BWI 2.8>3.7
CLE-MDW 5.7>6.4
CMH-BWI 3.7>4.7
CMH-MDW 5.6>6.4
CMH-PHX 1.0>2.0
CMH-TPA 2.0>3.2
DAL-MCI 9.3>8.4
DAL-TUL 4.6>5.4
DEN-BNA 2.9>3.7
DEN-SAT 2.0>2.8
DEN-SJC 2.7>3.7
DTW-BWI 2.8>3.7
DTW-MDW 5.7>6.4
DTW-PHX 1.0>1.8
ELP-ABQ 1.0>1.7
ELP-LAX 2.4>2.8
FLL-BWI 4.5>5.2
FLL-MDW 4.0>5.3
GEG-BOI 2.6>1.8
GEG-PDX 2.7>2.0
GEG-PHX 0.0>1.0
GEG-SEA 2.6>1.8
GEG-SLC 1.0>0.0
HOU-BWI 2.9>3.8
HOU-LAS 3.9>4.7
HOU-MCO 3.9>5.0
HOU-MSY 9.2>9.7
HOU-SAT 4.6>5.4
HOU-TUL 3.5>2.7
IAD-MDW 5.4>5.8
IND-BWI 2.8>3.8
IND-LAS 2.0>3.0
IND-MDW 2.9>3.7
IND-TPA 1.0>2.2
ISP-MCO 4.0>5.0
ISP-TPA 2.5>3.0
JAN-BWI 1.0>2.0
JAN-MDW 1.0>1.7
JAX-BNA 2.8>3.8
LAS-ABQ 4.7>5.7
LAS-BNA 2.0>2.7
LAS-BUF 1.5>2.0
LAS-BWI 2.9>3.8
LAS-HOU 3.9>4.7
LAS-IND 2.0>3.0
LAS-MDW 7.9>9.5
LAS-OMA 2.0>2.8
LAS-PDX 3.0>3.8
LAS-RNO 9.8>10.4
LAS-SEA 4.0>4.7
LAS-SJC 7.7>8.5
LAS-STL 3.0>4.0
LAX-ABQ 3.4>4.0
LAX-MDW 4.8>5.8
MAF-DAL 5.6>5.2
MCI-BWI 1.9>2.8
MCI-DAL 9.1>8.2
MCO-AUS 1.0>2.0
MCO-BUF 3.3>4.2
MCO-BWI 7.0>9.2
MCO-HOU 4.0>5.0
MCO-ISP 4.0>5.0
MCO-MDW 6.6>8.3
MCO-MKE 2.0>1.3
MCO-MSY 4.0>4.7
MCO-PHL 5.5>6.0
MCO-PHX 1.0>1.8
MCO-PIT 2.1>3.2
MCO-RDU 3.0>4.0
MCO-SAT 1.0>2.0
MCO-STL 3.6>4.2
MDW-BDL 2.0>2.8
MDW-BNA 6.3>7.2
MDW-BWI 5.6>6.8
MDW-CLE 5.7>6.4
MDW-CMH 5.5>6.4
MDW-DTW 5.6>6.2
MDW-FLL 4.0>5.3
MDW-IAD 5.4>5.8
MDW-IND 2.8>3.7
MDW-JAN 1.0>1.8
MDW-LAS 7.8>9.7
MDW-LAX 4.7>5.7
MDW-MCO 6.6>8.3
MDW-MSP 7.7>7.2
MDW-MSY 1.0>1.8
MDW-OAK 2.0>3.0
MDW-OMA 4.7>5.7
MDW-PDX 0.9>1.8
MDW-PIT 3.8>4.7
MDW-RSW 2.6>4.2
MDW-SAN 3.0>4.0
MDW-SDF 3.7>4.7
MDW-SEA 1.8>2.8
MDW-SFO 2.0>2.7
MDW-STL 8.4>8.9
MDW-TPA 4.6>6.2
MHT-TPA 2.0>3.0
MKE-MCO 2.0>1.3
MSP-STL 1.9>2.7
MSY-MCO 4.0>4.7
MSY-MDW 1.0>1.8
OAK-MDW 2.0>3.0
OMA-LAS 2.0>2.7
OMA-MDW 4.6>5.5
PBI-BDL 0.0>1.0
PDX-GEG 2.6>1.8
PDX-LAS 3.0>3.7
PDX-MDW 0.9>1.8
PDX-PHX 2.8>3.8
PDX-SLC 1.9>2.8
PHL-MCO 5.5>6.0
PHL-PHX 1.0>2.0
PHL-RDU 2.9>3.5
PHL-TPA 3.0>4.0
PHX-BOI 0.0>1.0
PHX-BWI 3.0>3.8
PHX-CMH 1.0>2.0
PHX-DTW 1.0>2.0
PHX-GEG 0.0>1.0
PHX-MCO 1.0>2.0
PHX-PDX 2.8>4.0
PHX-PHL 1.0>2.0
PHX-PIT 1.0>2.0
PHX-TPA 1.0>1.8
PIT-MCO 2.1>3.2
PIT-MDW 3.8>4.8
PIT-PHX 1.0>2.0
PIT-TPA 2.0>3.0
PVD-BWI 8.1>8.5
PVD-TPA 2.0>3.2
RDU-MCO 3.0>4.0
RDU-PHL 2.9>3.7
RNO-DEN 1.5>2.0
RNO-LAS 9.8>10.7
RSW-MDW 2.6>4.2
SAN-MDW 3.0>3.8
SAN-TUS 3.7>2.8
SAT-BWI 1.8>2.7
SAT-DEN 2.0>2.7
SAT-HOU 4.6>5.4
SAT-MCO 1.0>2.0
SDF-BHM 1.0>1.8
SDF-BWI 2.8>4.0
SDF-MDW 3.7>4.7
SEA-GEG 2.6>1.8
SEA-LAS 3.9>4.7
SEA-MDW 1.8>2.7
SFO-MDW 1.9>2.8
SJC-DEN 2.7>3.7
SJC-LAS 7.7>8.5
SLC-PDX 1.9>2.7
SMF-BUR 7.2>7.7
STL-BWI 3.6>4.7
STL-LAS 3.0>4.0
STL-MCO 3.6>4.2
STL-MDW 8.3>8.9
STL-MSP 1.9>2.8
TPA-CMH 2.0>3.2
TPA-IND 1.0>2.2
TPA-ISP 2.5>3.0
TPA-MDW 4.6>6.2
TPA-MHT 2.0>3.0
TPA-PHL 3.0>4.0
TPA-PHX 1.0>2.0
TPA-PIT 2.0>3.0
TPA-PVD 2.0>3.2
TUL-DAL 4.6>5.4
TUL-HOU 3.4>2.8
TUS-SAN 3.8>3.0

ZK
These take place in Nov forward
AIA-CDR 0.0>0.7
AIA-DEN 1.7>1.0
BFF-AIA 0.7>0.0
BFF-DEN 2.7>2.9
BFF-ISN 0.0>1.0
BIL-DEN 3.1>1.7
BIL-LWT 1.7>0.7
BIL-SDY 1.0>1.7
CDR-DEN 2.0>1.7
CDR-ISN 2.0>1.0
CYS-DEN 5.2>4.5
CYS-WRL 0.7>0.0
DEN-AIA 1.0>1.7
DEN-BFF 3.4>2.9
DEN-BIL 2.4>1.7
DEN-CDR 2.0>1.0
DEN-CYS 5.2>4.5
DEN-GCC 3.3>2.4
DEN-RIW 2.9>3.9
DEN-RKS 0.9>0.7
DIK-SDY 0.9>0.0
GCC-GDV 0.8>1.7
GCC-ISN 1.0>0.0
GCC-SDY 0.7>0.0
HVR-LWT 1.7>0.0
HVR-RIW 0.0>1.9
ISN-BFF 0.0>1.0
ISN-CDR 2.0>1.0
LAR-WRL 1.0>1.7
LWT-BIL 1.7>0.7
LWT-HVR 1.7>0.0
LWT-RIW 0.0>1.0
RIW-DEN 2.9>3.9
RIW-HVR 0.0>1.9
RIW-LWT 0.0>1.0
RKS-DEN 0.9>0.7
SDY-DIK 0.9>0.0
SDY-SHR 0.0>1.0
SHR-DEN 4.0>3.9
SHR-GDV 0.9>0.0
SHR-ISN 0.0>1.0
SHR-SDY 0.0>1.0
WRL-CYS 0.7>0.0
WRL-LAR 1.0>1.7

[Edited 2010-10-05 11:41:50]

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2844 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9627 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-SDQ 2/WK>0 APR-

So that's pretty much it for BOS then. ORD, DFW, MIA, LAX, LGA (Eagle), JFK (Eagle), YYZ (Eagle, prob around until B6 starts serving Canada), LHR, and maybe CDG (if they restart it). Never did I think I'd see the day where AA abandoned BOS-SFO and BOS-SJU.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-CZM 0>1/WK FEB-

Has AA ever flown this one before? I know UA has, but I think this is a first for AA. Good to see them giving it a try.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-MHK 0>1 FEB- REVERSES LAST WEEK

Excellent. Hopefully this route will make the cut.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-PBI 2>3 FEB-

3x daily?!? Impressive.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9
DEN-JAC 0>1 MAY- (319)

Nice, has this one ever been flown by mainline before?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FL
ATL-IAD 3>4 DEC-

Very interesting addition. I wonder if IAD could play a more prominent role for WN (given the scarcity of DCA slots and overlap at BWI) when the merger is all said and done.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA
IAD-MHT 3>2 JAN-FEB
IAD-PIT 6>5 JAN-FEB
IAD-PVD 5>4 JAN-FEB
IAD-PWM 3>2 JAN-FEB
IAD-ROA 3>2 JAN-FEB
IAD-SAV 4>3 JAN-FEB
IAD-SFO 9>7 JAN-FEB
LAX-MCO 2>1 JAN-FEB
ORD-BUF 6>5 JAN-FEB
ORD-LAS 5>4 JAN-FEB
ORD-LAX 11>10 JAN-FEB
ORD-MCO 11>10 JAN-FEB
ORD-PVD 3>2 JAN-FEB
ORD-ROC 6>5 JAN-FEB
ORD-SFO 10>9 JAN-FEB
SFO-PHL 3>2 JAN-FEB
SFO-SEA 7>6 JAN-FEB

Perfect opportunity to repaint a bunch of UA planes. I hate to say it, but I like the new merger livery better than that awful gray one. As for the blue one, it will be sorely missed!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BDL-PBI 0.0>1.0

This is quite a nice addition!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BOI-PHX 0.0>1.0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
GEG-PHX 0.0>1.0

More growth for WN out of PHX. The market must be rebounding there or something...?



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7023 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9546 times:

I fixed the bottom of the post which got cutoff somehow...

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
So that's pretty much it for BOS then. ORD, DFW, MIA, LAX, LGA (Eagle), JFK (Eagle), YYZ (Eagle, prob around until B6 starts serving Canada), LHR, and maybe CDG (if they restart it). Never did I think I'd see the day where AA abandoned BOS-SFO and BOS-SJU.

B6 is basically picking up AA's castoffs. I expect them to grab most of these SJU routes.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Has AA ever flown this one before? I know UA has, but I think this is a first for AA. Good to see them giving it a try.

I think they have, but there is a Mexico feeding frenzy right now.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-MHK 0>1 FEB- REVERSES LAST WEEK
Excellent. Hopefully this route will make the cut.

I bet they are negotiating for incentives and bluffed by taking it out to get more money.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9
DEN-JAC 0>1 MAY- (319)

Nice, has this one ever been flown by mainline before?

Yes I think, but more often on the Q400.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
I hate to say it, but I like the new merger livery better than that awful gray one.

I don't like either, but I liked the tulip better than the globe.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
More growth for WN out of PHX. The market must be rebounding there or something...?

It's amazing WN hates LAS giving DEN as the reason for its expansionary halt, while they grow in PHX which is seemingly also blocked by DEN. The real difference is that WN now owns LAS and has no reason to grow, whereas they don't own PHX...yet.


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9506 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):

More growth for WN out of PHX. The market must be rebounding there or something...?
Quoting enilria (Reply 2):

It's amazing WN hates LAS giving DEN as the reason for its expansionary halt, while they grow in PHX which is seemingly also blocked by DEN. The real difference is that WN now owns LAS and has no reason to grow, whereas they don't own PHX...yet.

WN explained the shift of the routes, they are basically canceling the two SLC from GEG/BOI, and transferring them to connect in PHX instead of SLC. By canceling I mean dropping a flight, not canceling the entire route, and xfering them to PHX.

Whether it has to do with owning or anything, that's up to you guys to think.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9505 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
YYZ (Eagle, prob around until B6 starts serving Canada), LHR, and maybe CDG (if they restart it).

BOS-YYZ survives because of AA's strong corporate travel contracts in the Toronto-area. I expect CDG to survive, too, because of ATI with BA/IB and the fact that the only competition is AF.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ORD-MHK 0>1 FEB- REVERSES LAST WEEK

Excellent. Hopefully this route will make the cut.

It was technically never discontinued in the first place, as last week was in error. But yes, hopefully it goes strong. MHK has done well so far.



a.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7023 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9424 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 3):
WN explained the shift of the routes, they are basically canceling the two SLC from GEG/BOI, and transferring them to connect in PHX instead of SLC. By canceling I mean dropping a flight, not canceling the entire route, and xfering them to PHX.

Whether it has to do with owning or anything, that's up to you guys to think.

This is just one data point. They have been adding things like BOS and MSP from PHX as well, but LAS never gets anything new. The adds in LAS above just reverse seasonal reductions from a few months earlier and I believe they added back less than they dropped earlier in the Winter. Bottom line, WN isn't interested in growing routes to LAS. If you ask they will tell you "we are focused on DEN right now", per my post. I'm just saying that makes little sense with PHX getting new flights.

SLC losing is not surprising. Both B6 and WN have had a hard time there. We'll see if WN does better in ATL than in SLC.  
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
It was technically never discontinued in the first place, as last week was in error.

Remember when AA used to be the best managed airline? LOL


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3716 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9105 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL
FOLLOWING ARE JAN-FEB ONLY REDUCTIONS
ATL TO:
ABQ 3>2
BHM 13>12
CHS 9>8
CLE 7>6
DFW 11>10
ELP 3>2
HOU 7>6
IAH 8>7
ILM 7>6
MKE 7>5
MYR 6>5
PHF 7>6
PHL 11>10
ROC 5>4
SAP 5/WK>2/WK
STL 9>8

DTW TO:
ATL 12>10
BMI 2>1
BNA 7>6
CAE 2>1
CMH 7>6
CWA 4>3
HPN 5>4
JAX 3>2
MCI 5>4
MLI 4>3
MSY 2>1
YQB 2>1
YYZ 8>7

MEM TO:
AMA 3>2
MFE 3>2

MSP TO:
BIL 3>2
BNA 6>5
BZN 3>2
JAX 2>1
LEX 2>1
MLI 3>2
RDU 5>4
SLC 6>5

SLC TO:
BUR 4>3
SEA 8>7
TUL 2>1

ATL-DKR 0>3/WK JAN-
DTW-YHZ 1>0 DEC-
DTW-MHT 3>4 JAN-
DTW-HNL 3/WK>0 JAN-
DCA-BOS 11>10 JAN-FEB
JFK-BOS 6>5 JAN-
JFK-IAD 3>2 JAN-FEB
JFK-PIT 5>4 FEB-MAR
JFK-YHZ 1>2 DEC-
LAX-GDL 0>1 DEC- This has flipped twice already
MEM-MEX 0>1/WK JAN-
MSP-OMA 7>6 DEC-
MSP-ICT 3>2 DEC-FEB
SEA-KIX 1>6/WK JAN-FEB
SPN-NGO 1>2/WK DEC-FEB

No CVG cuts, or even Jan/Feb slow season frequency reductions? Gee, I'm surprised.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6707 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8860 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Bottom line, WN isn't interested in growing routes to LAS. If you ask they will tell you "we are focused on DEN right now", per my post. I'm just saying that makes little sense with PHX getting new flights.

I'm not sure I buy that at all. LAS picked up 13 daily (weekday/Sunday) departures according to the schedule notes, while PHX only added 10 and DEN gained 3. The big "winners" were BWI and MDW, while the biggest loser by far was GEG. If you're talking about BOI and GEG getting PHX service, both BOI and GEG already had two daily non-stops to LAS.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4995 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8847 times:

Nice to see the changes at STL on WN are all (slight) increases.


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineberyllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8831 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
SJU-JFK 3>4 APR-
SJU-ORD 2>1 APR-
SJU-AXA 4/WK>0 APR-
SJU-BOS 1>0 APR-
SJU-BWI 1>0 APR-
SJU-LRM 4/WK>0 APR-
SJU-NEV 4/WK>0 APR-
SJU-PAP 3/WK>0 APR-
SJU-PHL 1>0 APR-
SJU-POP 2/WK>0 APR-
SJU-SDQ 4>3 APR-
SJU-TPA 1>0 APR-

So, AA has officially dismantled its SJU hub.
With all these route cancellations, it becomes, at best, just a focus city for AA (if even that).
I wonder if WN, after FL acquisition is completed, would be interested in expanding what FL has in SJU and establishing a sizable presence over there...


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8832 times:

Regarding WN at MDW, except for a minor cut to MSP, it looks like MDW is growing!

User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AF
MCO-CDG 3/WK>0 MAR-

Quick question...Isn't this starting on June 9th and not March?


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DTW-HNL 3/WK>0 JAN-

Is this temporary or permanent? Are they going to be down to just 4x weekly MSP-HNL from DTW and HNL?

Jeremy


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1047 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8431 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
No CVG cuts, or even Jan/Feb slow season frequency reductions? Gee, I'm surprised.

The early winter CVG cuts were loaded weeks ago; CVG will offer less than 150 daily departures during most of the work week. Interestingly enough, with DL's latest schedule change, many frequencies that had been cut in March from ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC were restored -- but, other than the mainline West Coast service, not at CVG.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Is this temporary or permanent? Are they going to be down to just 4x weekly MSP-HNL from DTW and HNL?

It was pulled from the schedule last week; MSP-HNL remains 4x weekly. DL's offering plenty of cheap contract HNL fares (for example, many Midwestern/Eastern markets can be had for RT$600-$800 with purchase of two-nights lodging or 5-day rental car from its vacation arm) and may have decided to rescind capacity. I had projected that DL would drop one or more of its west coast flights, but the economics may work better to reduce frequency on the long-hauls.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineairguardtn From United States of America, joined May 2007, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8333 times:

Intresting to see MEM-MEX for DL starting in Jan. I also noticed today that MEM-CUN is back on the Jan. schedule for Saturday only.

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1902 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8158 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Is this temporary or permanent? Are they going to be down to just 4x weekly MSP-HNL from DTW and HNL?

It looks permanent. And it ends in just three weeks, right near the end of October. It was cut just recently, so I would imagine many people had to be re-booked. And I'm not surprised at all that MSP doesn't add back the frequencies it lost before and after the DTW-HNL addition. I could see that coming if/when DTW lost service. MSP-HNL is only one step ahead of deletion right now.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 13):
It was pulled from the schedule last week; MSP-HNL remains 4x weekly. DL's offering plenty of cheap contract HNL fares (for example, many Midwestern/Eastern markets can be had for RT$600-$800 with purchase of two-nights lodging or 5-day rental car from its vacation arm) and may have decided to rescind capacity. I had projected that DL would drop one or more of its west coast flights, but the economics may work better to reduce frequency on the long-hauls.

Delta has slowly, but steadily rescinded Hawaii capacity for a couple years now. And that trend has continued even though Hawaii demand bottomed out and then started to rise again. Any prediction of a Delta cut to Hawaii is a good one.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

The question remains as to how much further WN can grow at MDW. Unlike ORD, there is no room to expand at MDW. The runway configuration doesn't lend itself to more traffic, and the terminal can't offer much more in terms of gate space. If you thought the expansion at ORD was a nightmare, just think of trying to buy houses, businesses and churches around MDW while trying to bury some of the main streets (Cicero, Central, 55th, and 63rd) under additional or lengthened runways.

As for AA, glad to see a third roundtrip on ORD-TPA. The twice-daily flights ran very full and offered no mid-day options.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1047 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8034 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
It looks permanent. And it ends in just three weeks, right near the end of October.

The flight continues to operate as originally scheduled throughout most of November and December (which is once-weekly, transitioning back to three-times weekly mid-December).

Quote:
Delta has slowly, but steadily rescinded Hawaii capacity for a couple years now. And that trend has continued even though Hawaii demand bottomed out and then started to rise again. Any prediction of a Delta cut to Hawaii is a good one.

Among the legacies, only AA is adding capacity into HNL.
* AA is operating only 757 from LAX and SFO, but added a 763 from ORD.
* UA is operating smaller planes from LAX; often at reduced frequency (sometimes at SFO as well).
* CO's dropping one of two IAH flights most of next year. (And I believe this decision is independent of the merger, although I do agree that a domestic 777 could be likely.)
* US tried but failed with CLT.

While demand may be rising, so have fuel costs, and people are reluctant to pay fares the legacies perceive as viable to retaining service. Ultimately, people are continuing to choose lower-cost vacation alternatives in Mexico and the Caribbean.

Quote:
And I'm not surprised at all that MSP doesn't add back the frequencies it lost before and after the DTW-HNL addition. I could see that coming if/when DTW lost service. MSP-HNL is only one step ahead of deletion right now.

I really doubt MSP/HNL will be dropped. While I'm not as familiar with DL, I know that with NW, MSP/HNL was always preferred (over DTW/HNL) as it was significantly cheaper to operate (it's less than 8-hours on the return)... that's probably the case with DL as well. I'd expect MSP to return to daily, or DTW to return, before the second ATL/HNL returns.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

If WN were to spread out departures at MDW to 1 every other minute, they could fly 360 daily departures from 7am to 7pm. Since there is not a viable competitor out of MDW (except for Air Tran's flights to ATL, which will soon be WN's). No reason that WN can not grow this!

Also, glad to see the 3rd TPA - ORD flight return! I've flown this route many times and can't remember the last time I saw an empty seat!


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1128 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7934 times:

Didn't AA announce an additional SJU-MIA after the other cities get axed????

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7872 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 19):
Didn't AA announce an additional SJU-MIA after the other cities get axed????

Yes. MIA-SJU will go to 9x daily. It just has not been loaded, yet.



a.
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22709 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 18):
If WN were to spread out departures at MDW to 1 every other minute, they could fly 360 daily departures from 7am to 7pm. Since there is not a viable competitor out of MDW (except for Air Tran's flights to ATL, which will soon be WN's). No reason that WN can not grow this!

Could they? Maybe - it's gates and other terminal infrastructure that limit WN's growth at MDW, not the airfield. With the gates they'd have with FL, you're looking at somewhere around 350 daily flights in the best case, though I don't know that the rest of the infrastructure can handle that. There have been some grumblings about trouble handing bags with the current operation (~225 weekday flights).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1902 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 17):
The flight continues to operate as originally scheduled throughout most of November and December (which is once-weekly, transitioning back to three-times weekly mid-December).

The normal 3X weekly ends with DTW-HNL on Oct. 28th. Then it looks like it runs for two Sundays around Thanksgiving and a couple 3X weeks around Christmas before disappearing for good.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 17):
Among the legacies, only AA is adding capacity into HNL.
* AA is operating only 757 from LAX and SFO, but added a 763 from ORD.
* UA is operating smaller planes from LAX; often at reduced frequency (sometimes at SFO as well).
* CO's dropping one of two IAH flights most of next year. (And I believe this decision is independent of the merger, although I do agree that a domestic 777 could be likely.)
* US tried but failed with CLT.

I just don't think they really compare to the cuts in the DL/NW network. The only route I can find with increased service (peak season) since 2008 is LAX-OGG (and that's at the expense of other OGG route cuts). LAX-LIH and SFO-HNL are the only ones I can find that have seen stable service. Once DTW-HNL is gone, every other Hawaii route for DL/NW (11 total routes in 2008) has seen either a aircraft capacity, frequency, or full route cut. DTW-HNL was the only "new" route too in that time frame.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 17):
I really doubt MSP/HNL will be dropped. While I'm not as familiar with DL, I know that with NW, MSP/HNL was always preferred (over DTW/HNL) as it was significantly cheaper to operate (it's less than 8-hours on the return)... that's probably the case with DL as well. I'd expect MSP to return to daily, or DTW to return, before the second ATL/HNL returns.

I really wouldn't doubt any HNL route elimination except ATL and LAX. Years ago MSP-HNL was an on/off affair, and right now 4X weekly is barely on. Anything can happen, but steady or increasing service isn't the trend right now.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7485 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 16):
The question remains as to how much further WN can grow at MDW. Unlike ORD, there is no room to expand at MDW. The runway configuration doesn't lend itself to more traffic, and the terminal can't offer much more in terms of gate space. If you thought the expansion at ORD was a nightmare, just think of trying to buy houses, businesses and churches around MDW while trying to bury some of the main streets (Cicero, Central, 55th, and 63rd) under additional or lengthened runways.

MDW was considerably busier when both WN and TZ hubbed at MDW. MDW's airfield can handle a lot more service.

Jeremy


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7462 times:

Loving the Southwest BDL -PBI route!!! When does that start? Anybody have departure times?

25 CompensateMe : The route had been scheduled as once-weekly in November into mid-December. Since the merger, DL's dropped SEA-OGG-KOA, PDX-HNL, one flight each from
26 steeler83 : Nice little expansion of service by WN at PIT here. I guess some of it is due to their acquisition of FL as well as seasonal changes? I guess all tog
27 atrude777 : While true, they are just simply a return of the flights we had in Spring of 2010, for Spring of 2011. However because of CLE being cut, we went down
28 deltal1011man : comes back in May. Permanent (ie it doesn't have a start date....now what happens next week? who knows, but for now its gone for good.) for now, yes
29 CompensateMe : The 764 held 285 passengers, the 333 accommodates 298. But prior to the merger, it had been operating as a 757 (DL), 753 (NW) and 763 (DL). Hawaii is
30 FlyASAGuy2005 : I think that is the $1 million question in everyone's mind, however, ATL isn't as sensative as SLC seems to be. DL has pretty much had a stranglhold
31 Post contains images enilria : I would expect CVG cuts in an upcoming round, although it is possible that either a) they are so thin on service already they can't cut anything else
32 PSU.DTW.SCE : I know every week you predict the demise of CVG, but it just isn't happening now. CVG is most likely safe it its current form through summer 2011. If
33 enilria : As I'm sure you noticed they cut CVG's West Coast routes by a roundtrip for the Winter just in the last week or two, so your optimism might be bounde
34 strandedinbgm : What does OAG stand for?
35 flyguy89 : I just honestly don't think there is anymore that can be cut at CVG without announcing a de-hubbing. I do believe, however, that if CVG can hold it's
36 Post contains links beryllium : Official Airline Guide... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAG
37 Post contains images CompensateMe : The reductions are only for Jan./Feb. - the flights return in Mar. I agree with the comments about -- it's not likely CVG will offer less flights nex
38 GlobalCabotage : MDW can handle more WN service if it is in the cards.
39 stl1326 : The STL schedule will be at 83 daily flights for spring of 2011. The current winter schedule has us at 80 daily flights and with the spring schedule
40 atrude777 : I used April on a Tuesday for Spring of 2011 schedule, to include the CLE cut and realized I forgot SDF which is 2 daily, which still brings me to 81
41 ERJ170 : RDU is usually 3, not 1.. unless they just changed it..
42 atrude777 : RDU-STL on WN started May of 2010 with only one daily flight and has remained one daily since then. I don't ever recall 3 daily RDU-STL on WN. Alex
43 Post contains images stl1326 : You are missing LIT at 2 daily flights
44 ERJ170 : Ahh.. sorry..missed something.. thought we were talking about CVG.. hehehe.. my bad..
45 Post contains images atrude777 : GRRRRR, I KNEW IT! I had WN's route map up, using the non stop cities from STL and wrote everything down, how could I have missed that! Ok dokey! Tha
46 Post contains images enilria : Airlines never announce bad news, so you may be waiting a long time for that. At most it will slip out in an earnings call. MEM is as viable as its e
47 Cubsrule : Would you agree that DL has done everything in its power (short of closing ATL) to make MEM work?
48 flyguy89 : I agree, I will be very interested indeed to see the summer schedule although it's obvious there will be a lower number of daily flights in June 2011
49 Post contains images enilria : I'm not sure they have tried anything, but I don't know what there really is to try. They added a few spokes when they grabbed it. The stuff they add
50 rl757pvd : Short season for this seasonal flight... the new WN sched (Late April-early June) has this flight gone already
51 enilria : Strange. Something to do with Easter?
52 PSU.DTW.SCE : Comair is parking those 'ton' of planes over a two year period. They are coming out of the system at a rate of 1-2 a month starting in early 2011, wi
53 enilria : You act like 1-2 planes a month isn't a big deal. Each plane represents 3 or 4 roundtrips somewhere is losing. It will never be "gone". Worst case it
54 FWAERJ : Of DL focus cities, BOS, IND, RDU, and STL all have some to significant OH flying. BDL, not so much (just CVG and recently-added DCA). The hubs with
55 enilria : I agree with your basic point which is, I think, that they can simply shift around the other regionals and take the flying from anywhere. I still thi
56 FWAERJ : I 100% agree with your statement that it will be either CVG or MEM that will be dehubbed, but I'd also make an even-money bet that CVG is toast, in p
57 MSPNWA : Agreed. West is the direction MEM needs to differentiate itself, but maybe it's not possible. If it isn't, MEM isn't looking very valuable as a hub.
58 enilria : They do seem to be using MSP to provide relief to a number of cities recently losing capacity to other hubs. That's probably likely. I'm glad you agr
59 flyguy89 : Is that honestly cost-effective though if their over-all goal is closing out a hub? I would just think if that was the case it would be cheaper to cu
60 enilria : I agree that it would seem to be better to close it all at once, but there are two other things at play. First,the lease contracts on the airplanes m
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