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DOT Tentatively Approves US-Japan Alliances  
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

The DOT has tentatively approved the AA-JL and NH-UA/CO antitrust immunity and joint ventures.

DOT release -:

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2010/dot18410.html

[Edited 2010-10-06 12:06:13]


Ryan / HKG
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

I would think DL is on the losing end of this announcement?

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12851 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3063 times:

Quoting Reply 1):
I would think DL is on the losing end of this announcement?

DL and AA were in a bidding war for JL's affections.

DL lost.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3063 times:

How would the open skies agreement mentioned in the PR affect ability to enter (or expand from) NRT and HND? Will Japan still get to designate x number of slots for ALL U.S. carriers, or...?


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

Quoting Reply 1):
I would think DL is on the losing end of this announcement?

yes and no. They don't have JL or NH.....but at the same time DL has had ATI with KE for a very long time.



yep.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26022 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

Great step forward for Star and OW.

While this took took longer than airlines wished for, this paves way for both alliances to commence their proposed broad reaching joint ventures across the Pacific.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2987 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 4):
yes and no. They don't have JL or NH.....but at the same time DL has had ATI with KE for a very long time.

And with the rising South Korean market and the stagnant Japanese market, this could become very important in the future.

Not surprising news on the alliance front; it will be interesting to see what ATI holds for both UA/NH and AA/JL in terms of new service.

Jeremy


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
And with the rising South Korean market and the stagnant Japanese market, this could become very important in the future.

Not as important as you might think (for Delta at least) because KE has shown no interest in forming a JV. In many ways, KE and Delta remain direct competitors with KE preferring to open and support as many or even more US gateways to Seoul than Delta does to Korea and Japan combined.

There was an Aviation Week article about KE's transpac strategy a while back. In it, there was no mention by management of forming any JV with Delta.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
And with the rising South Korean market and the stagnant Japanese market, this could become very important in the future.

And for those not going to Tokyo, it can be easier from most places to fly USA-ICN-Japan as it is USA-NRT-Japan Cities, due to the limited Japanese city service from NRT compared to HND and ICN.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5349 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

It will be interesting to see how this changes the competitive landscape on US-Japan routes.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 7):
Not as important as you might think (for Delta at least) because KE has shown no interest in forming a JV. In many ways, KE and Delta remain direct competitors with KE preferring to open and support as many or even more US gateways to Seoul than Delta does to Korea and Japan combined.

There was an Aviation Week article about KE's transpac strategy a while back. In it, there was no mention by management of forming any JV with Delta.

What is your source that KE has shown no interest in a JV? Not mentioning their interest in an Aviation Week article is hardly definitive proof. Regardless, the fact that DL/KE have not applied for a JV tells me that KE's superior hub at ICN and growing market makes it so that they don't need to rely on a JV (at least not in the short term) in the same way that the Japanese carriers do.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7758 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Bring on ORD-HKG, LAX-KIX/NGO, and DFW-ICN, AA!


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3345 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 7):
Not as important as you might think (for Delta at least) because KE has shown no interest in forming a JV. In many ways, KE and Delta remain direct competitors with KE preferring to open and support as many or even more US gateways to Seoul than Delta does to Korea and Japan combined.

There was an Aviation Week article about KE's transpac strategy a while back. In it, there was no mention by management of forming any JV with Delt

Stay tuned...


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
What is your source that KE has shown no interest in a JV? Not mentioning their interest in an Aviation Week article is hardly definitive proof. Regardless, the fact that DL/KE have not applied for a JV tells me that KE's superior hub at ICN and growing market makes it so that they don't need to rely on a JV (at least not in the short term) in the same way that the Japanese carriers do.

That's precisely it. KE has done a better job of turning Seoul into a multi-directional Asian hub than ANA or JAL have of turning either Haneda or Narita into a true Asian hub. In fact, as the Aviation Week article claimed, KE connects a significant amount of passengers originating in Japan to other points in Asia, specifically China.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 11):
Stay tuned...

One would think Delta would have arranged for such a thing on the heels of the announcement of the other two JV's.

Whatever the case, the rationale set forth in the Aviation Week article was that KE didn't need any partnerships (e.g., joint ventures) to continue to grow and succeed. I mean. Think about it. KE doesn't need a US partner to feed its hub at Seoul. It does that all by itself.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 4):
Quoting Reply 1):
I would think DL is on the losing end of this announcement?

yes and no. They don't have JL or NH.....but at the same time DL has had ATI with KE for a very long time.

It's not the same thing. NH/UA and JL/AA will have JBAs, not just ATI.

That being said, it would be stupid of DL/KE to not pursue a JBA in the near term so the playing field can level.



a.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Great news.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
Bring on ORD-HKG, LAX-KIX/NGO, and DFW-ICN, AA!

        

I'd love to see:

Chicago-Hong Kong / daily 777
Dallas/Fort Worth-Seoul / daily 777
Los Angeles-Nagoya / daily 763
Los Angeles-Osaka / daily 763

Dallas/Fort Worth-Tokyo / second flight taken over by JAL 77W

Let's hope ...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
That being said, it would be stupid of DL/KE to not pursue a JBA in the near term so the playing field can level.

I would be shocked if DL and KE don't pursue some sort of a deal at some point down the line - as you say, they would be stupid not to, as they money in it for both of them would be big.


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

i would think UA-CO dont need one anyore sense there 1


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 15):
i would think UA-CO dont need one anyore sense there 1

CO brings very little to UA's giant Asian network. EWR-PEK/PVG/HKG/NRT and IAH-NRT is minuscule compared to UA's current network. Adding NH to the UA/CO mix makes a formidable carrier across the Pacific.

Jeremy


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

Looks like HA and ANA will also code share on both carriers new routes between HNL and HND.

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2010/10/04/daily22.html

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/104431099.html

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25860 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 12):
KE has done a better job of turning Seoul into a multi-directional Asian hub than ANA or JAL have of turning either Haneda or Narita into a true Asian hub. In fact, as the Aviation Week article claimed, KE connects a significant amount of passengers originating in Japan to other points in Asia, specifically China

KE serves more points in Japan than any non-Japanese carrier, and more points in China than any non-Chinese carrier.


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

It would be great to see JL metal back at DFW! This would free up two AA 777's for other routes!

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 15):
i would think UA-CO dont need one anyore sense there 1

CO brings very little to UA's giant Asian network. EWR-PEK/PVG/HKG/NRT and IAH-NRT is minuscule compared to UA's current network. Adding NH to the UA/CO mix makes a formidable carrier across the Pacific.

Jeremy

I think you misunderstood what he was saying;

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 15):
i would think UA-CO dont need one anyore sense there 1

He means that we don't have to do UA-CO or CO/UA anymore in posts since they are 1 (one) company, UA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 19):
It would be great to see JL metal back at DFW! This would free up two AA 777's for other routes!

Yes, however slots at Narita cannot be transferred between carriers, and I believe this even applies to immunized airlines.

So it free's up two planes, but AA will need to find a use for that Narita slot. Maybe SEA-NRT or MIA-NRT.



a.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23217 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 1901 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Yes, however slots at Narita cannot be transferred between carriers, and I believe this even applies to immunized airlines.

Transfers are permitted among US carriers and among non-US carriers. Of course, that doesn't help AA/JL or UA/NH directly, but it's possible that a deal could be struck with another carrier.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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