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TWA International Flights In 2001  
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9751 times:

What international flights did TWA operate on September 11th, 2001? I seem to recall news stories of TWA jets being diverted in Canada and elsewhere. I do not recall when TWA international operations ended though.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9693 times:

Yes, they had Paris and London.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9681 times:

I guess a related question as well. What flights did AA have at JFK then besides LHR? And what TWA flights did they incorporate? I believe FCO & CDG but I might be mistaken.

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

AA didn't incorporate any TW transat flights at JFK. CDG was the last TW route, and that ended in December of '01 I believe.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9605 times:

On september 11, 2001 TWA still flew from both JFK and STL to CDG and from STL to LGW. Routes operated with Boeing 767-300ER equipment.

I'm not sure about TWA's Middle East operation. It might have ended a while before 9/11.

In March of 2001 I flew TWA for the last time on a trip to Tulsa to visit a friend. I flew CDG-JFK-STL-TUL on March 5, 2001 and the reverse trip a couple of days later.

I remember they still served TLV and CAI from JFK with the CAI flight continuing on to RUH in addition the the CDG and LGW flights already mentioned.

CDG services operated with Boeing 767-200ER (with the planes usually flying a STL-JFK-CDG-STL and STL-CDG-JFK-STL rotation) equipment while all other flights were on the 300ER.

Best regards

L1011Lover


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1076 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9579 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
What international flights did TWA operate on September 11th, 2001?

Long haul, TWA had STL-LGW, STL-CDG, JFK-CDG and JFK-CAI-RUH. They also had various flights from JFK/STL to Mexico and the Caribbean.

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
I seem to recall news stories of TWA jets being diverted in Canada and elsewhere.

Yes, all three of TW's TATL flights were diverted on that date (the CAI-JFK never operated on Tuesdays)

TW721 LGW-STL diverted to Moncton (YQM) tail no: N691LF
TW819 CDG-STL diverted to Gander (YQX) tail no: N639TW
TW925 CDG-JFK diverted to Halifax (YHZ) tail no: N637TW

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 2):
I guess a related question as well. What flights did AA have at JFK then besides LHR?

At the time of 9/11, AA had only JFK-LHR (6x daily) and JFK-CDG (2x daily) to Europe from JFK.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9424 times:

Brings back bad memories of the TWA terminal during the final few years.

2000 and beyond was a pathetic end for a grand airline and grand terminal at JFK.

Towards the end, the original wing was closed off as well.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8499 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9205 times:
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Quoting washingtonian (Reply 2):

I guess a related question as well. What flights did AA have at JFK then besides LHR? And what TWA flights did they incorporate? I believe FCO & CDG but I might be mistaken

TWA sold the LHR routes to AA long before then in 1991. The last TWA JFK flights were to Israel, Cairo and CDG, everyelse had been terminated by then.


User currently offlinecruiseshipcrew From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 207 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8932 times:

I know this isn't international but what were TWA's Hawaii flights like then?


facebook sn jetboy787
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5521 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8107 times:

When did JFK-LIS cease? I remember in 2000 (I think 2000, or 2001) seeing a 767 going to Lisbon.

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7665 times:
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Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 5):

Long haul, TWA had STL-LGW, STL-CDG, JFK-CDG and JFK-CAI-RUH. They also had various flights from JFK/STL to Mexico and the Caribbean.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Brings back bad memories of the TWA terminal during the final few years.

2000 and beyond was a pathetic end for a grand airline and grand terminal at JFK.

Towards the end, the original wing was closed off as well.

  ! Just thinking about it, I still feel sad to see what TW ended up with in the end. In it's peak how many jetways did TW utilize @ JFK?


User currently offlineEMAman From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7224 times:

Yes it was sad how TWA ended up. They had struggled for years prior to their final demise in 2001.

They sold their LHR routes to AA in the early 90's, I think about the same time as Pan Am sold theirs to UA. TWA sold their LHR slots to AA desperate to claw in revenue, but of course, in the long term you have just simply sold away your market share and therefore market strength.

They did live on through the 90's, albeit on a knife edge.

The sad loss of flight 800 came in their last 5 years and the 9/11 terrorist attacks came about 8 weeks before the end, so yes it was all a very sad end at TWA.

I guess Pan Am also came to a similarly sad end, also with the destruction of flight 103 over Lockerbie in their last 3 years.

The modern day world of aviation owes so much to these two great pioneers.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1076 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7098 times:

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 8):
I know this isn't international but what were TWA's Hawaii flights like then?

They had a daily STL-HNL (763) which had the prestigious TW1/2 flight numbers and a daily STL-OGG (763) which was TW3/4. They also had a STL-LAX-KOA flight (757).

Quoting Continental (Reply 9):
When did JFK-LIS cease? I remember in 2000 (I think 2000, or 2001) seeing a 767 going to Lisbon.

JFK-LIS and JFK-MXP lasted almost until the end; they both ended at the same time in January 2001 shortly before AA took over.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9515 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6810 times:

here ya go

http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201intro.html



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6620 times:

" ! Just thinking about it, I still feel sad to see what TW ended up with in the end. In it's peak how many jetways did TW utilize @ JFK?"

They had all of Terminal 5 and 6. I think 6 had about 13 or so gates and T5 had a few more. All and all just shy of 30 gates.

T6 was domestic, T5 was intl.

TWE flights left from T5.

The 2 terminals were never connected . . . weird even for the 80s.


User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

Not all of T5 was international though IIRC, one half of the terminal had the gates with the glass partition for FIS arrivals (one of the concourses connected by the famous tubes, the one of the left when looking at the terminal from the front). These were gate numbers in the 20's. The other concourse was domestic and I don't believe had the capability for FIS. These gates were numbered in the 30's & 40's.

User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 4):
I'm not sure about TWA's Middle East operation. It might have ended a while before 9/11.

I seem to recall Continental launching EWR-TLV right around when TW ended JFK-TLV.

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 5):
At the time of 9/11, AA had only JFK-LHR (6x daily) and JFK-CDG (2x daily) to Europe from JFK.

Wow. They've built up quite a lot in the past decade then. Weird to think of AA as the modern TW and DL as the modern PA (at JFK).

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
TWA sold the LHR routes to AA long before then in 1991.

I know. Re-read what I said.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
he last TWA JFK flights were to Israel, Cairo and CDG, everyelse had been terminated by then.

Do you know when the TLV & CAI-RUH flights ended?

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 12):
JFK-LIS and JFK-MXP lasted almost until the end; they both ended at the same time in January 2001 shortly before AA took over.

Do you know when the other TW international flights ended?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 14):
The 2 terminals were never connected . . . weird even for the 80s.

Yeah...I remember the outdoor walkway which I believe wasn't even covered! My oh my how times have changed at JFK!


User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6234 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5400 times:

I might be confusing things but I recall TWA sending a 757 to LIS, I think this was the case for BCN as well (towards the end of the route).

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlinesahsa From Cayman Islands, joined Jan 2010, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 17):
I might be confusing things but I recall TWA sending a 757 to LIS, I think this was the case for BCN as well (towards the end of the route).

You are correct. There was also a routing, sometime between 1997 (when I began collecting their timetables) and the end when the route ran JFK-LIS-BCN 757. Perhaps the tag-on was during the low season.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

That timetable is a flashback. AA had quite a buildup at JFK with the TW flights. What a stupid move dumping CAI and TLV in the long run.

Also interesting to note that a few days a week TW was flying M80s from EWR various destinations in the caribbean. I forgot about that.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

"That timetable is a flashback. AA had quite a buildup at JFK with the TW flights. What a stupid move dumping CAI and TLV in the long run."

Actually, they built up virtually nothing from TWA at JFK. They folded TW in after 9/11 almost overnight. The second CDG stayed and MCO stayed initially. Everything else was pretty much gone.

It was years later that AA started to build up it's European destinations from JFK.


User currently offlineKlima From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

When did TWA get rid of FCO? I remember at some point in the late 90's they were running two daily over the summer. I also remember hearing a rumor that they were considering starting service to Beirut, I think.

User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1076 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4757 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):
Actually, they built up virtually nothing from TWA at JFK. They folded TW in after 9/11 almost overnight. The second CDG stayed and MCO stayed initially. Everything else was pretty much gone.

Not even the TWA flight to CDG stayed. AA already had 2x daily JFK-CDG before they took over TWA. The TWA flight was a third one and was ended straight away after 9/11.

I think the only non-overlapping ex-TWA routes at JFK that AA has kept are CUN and STL, although they have since re-started JFK-MCO after dropping it the first time.

Quoting Klima (Reply 21):
When did TWA get rid of FCO?

FCO ended in January 1999, along with Madrid and Barcelona.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 16):
Do you know when the TLV & CAI-RUH flights ended?

JFK-TLV ended in March 2001, right before AA took over. JFK-CAI-RUH ended in September 2001; it never resumed after the 9/11 suspension of flights.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinejetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1662 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4719 times:
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Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 14):
! Just thinking about it, I still feel sad to see what TW ended up with in the end. In it's peak how many jetways did TW utilize @ JFK?"

They had all of Terminal 5 and 6. I think 6 had about 13 or so gates and T5 had a few more. All and all just shy of 30 gates.

T6 was domestic, T5 was intl.

TWE flights left from T5.

The 2 terminals were never connected . . . weird even for the 80s.

Terminals 5 and 6 were connected by an outside covered walkway.

JetStar


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):
It was years later that AA started to build up it's European destinations from JFK.

Yes. But there was a huge downturn following 9/11 so it is understandable. Nonetheless, AA has in the past decade built up quite a trans-Atlantc operation:
LHR, CDG, BRU, ZRH, FCO, MAN, MAD, BCN, MXP...TW served a lot of these (FCO, MAD, BCN, etc) until close to its end.

Plus AA has EZE, GRU, NRT, and soon-to-be GIG...Quite an impressive JFK operation!

Does anybody happen to know if there are any ex-TW F/As still based at JFK for AA?

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 22):
JFK-TLV ended in March 2001, right before AA took over. JFK-CAI-RUH ended in September 2001; it never resumed after the 9/11 suspension of flights.

Do you happen to know when CO launched EWR-TLV? I believe they did it in response to TW stopping JFK-TLV.


25 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : It's amazing recently stl had widebody service to hnl, ogg, cdg and lgw .........now it's sadly RJ central at STL. I wish TWA had survived
26 Post contains links Viscount724 : According to the 1990-1999 history timeline in the CO website, CO stated TLV service August 1, 1999. http://www.continental.com/web/en-us...ent/compa
27 LONGisland89 : Didn't AA have JFK-FRA in the early 2000's? Flight 126 if I recall.
28 Post contains images DFWEagle : AA did briefly attempt JFK-FRA (starting on 16th May 1999) but it did not last long, ending on 1st November 2000, over a year before 9/11. As for the
29 washingtonian : Interesting. What aircraft? What else did AA try at JFK before purchasing TW? Also, on a side note, what aircraft was AA operating on LHR & CDG w
30 DFWEagle : The second time that AA started JFK-FRA was with 767 equipment. They tried quite a few routes from JFK, some of which have been brought back in more
31 washingtonian : Mostly DC-10s I assume? Yes, I remember the advertisments for this! Didn't AA also operate 762s across the pond?
32 washingtonian : It is amazing to see Delta & American at JFK today. They are very much the Pan Am and TWA of our time--Delta more so, especially since they still
33 Post contains images jfklganyc : All one has to do is taxi by T2 and 3 to see how much more dominant is at JFK. They finally have a full-fledged hub to be proud of. There are widebodi
34 jfk777 : Hey don't count AA out, with all the UA/CO & DAL/NW mergers they need to bulk up. Usairways is about as attractive as a Banana Republic, so that
35 Post contains links MLD9S : For anyone interested, here is a chart showing TWA's weekly departure numbers from JFK for a number of years between 1979 and 2001: www.departedflight
36 USAirALB : And ironically AA choose to equip these with PTVs..
37 Klima : I have a question about TWA's JFK-LHR flights. It looked like TWA operated only 2 daily JFK-LHR flights. Today, American flies 5 daily between JFK-LH
38 SevenHeavy : I believe the "Bermuda 2" agreement applied only to the route, not the frequency. So if AA could get the slots they had approval to operate as many L
39 28L28L : Does anyone know when AA ceased to operate EWR-LHR? Cheers.
40 commavia : Last flight was 30Jan03.
41 AA767400 : There are none yet at JFK. The 40 or so that are currently active are domestic. With these recalls coming in Dec, a couple will come to JFK. But only
42 lambertman : When AA purchased TW, FRA was slated to start from STL in addition to FCO and I believe MXP (latter two were unannounced). At the time TW was using a
43 EddieDude : Did that include JFK-MSY-MEX?
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