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Thai To Lease 8 B 77Ws From Bank Of China  
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9611 times:

Article source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...200305/thai-to-lease-eight-boeings

Main highlights:

1. Brand new B 77Ws to be delivered from Summer 2012 onwards.

2. Configuration for all will be 2 classes i.e. 40 business class + 306 economy class...346 total.

3. All leased B 77Ws from Jet Airways will be returned back once all these jets from Bank of China are obtained.

4. Lease rate is US$ 1.15 million per month + $ 5.87 million commitment fee per aircraft (what is this? as its non refundable).

5. Other tenders who lost out were DAE and AWAS.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9184 times:

Any idea as to what destinations these would be used on?

Could Scandinavia be the target?



Future flights: CPH-BRU; CPH-NRT-MNL; MNL-PVG-CPH; CPH-LAX
User currently onlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9038 times:

So, they will operate both A346s and 77Ws! That's interesting. Which other airlines operate both A346s and 77Ws?


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Is this a new order or an existing one now taken by Thai?

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 1):
Any idea as to what destinations these would be used on?

Some of the lesser routes they have 744s on now (their oldest 744s are from 1989/90), plus expansion and upgrading from 772-routes I guess. Maybe also to offload non-ER 773s of which they have a few and very early ones. I´d say its to early to say which routes exactly are affected. Scandinavia could fit.

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
3. All leased B 77Ws from Jet Airways will be returned back once all these jets from Bank of China are obtained.

Those Jet 77Ws will surely have a very thick coat of paint soon. A new livery every second year. Jet now has to find a new client or sell them finally.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4679 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9022 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
Which other airlines operate both A346s and 77Ws?

EY operate the A346 and B77W side by side...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6676 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9005 times:

Quoting na (Reply 3):
Those Jet 77Ws will surely have a very thick coat of paint soon. A new livery every second year. Jet now has to find a new client or sell them finally.

Aircraft get stripped before being repainted; they don't paint over the old paint. It gets too heavy, and can also build up too much and affect the aerodynamics. At least this is the rule with small aircraft, and I cannot imagine that large ones are handled any differently.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8976 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 5):
Aircraft get stripped before being repainted; they don't paint over the old paint.

I know. I just meant that in a way that these aircraft are being kicked around and get a new paintcoat every second year.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3173 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8942 times:

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 1):
Could Scandinavia be the target?

Although we're taking about TG and you never know what they really up to but reading this part of the article

Quote:

The eight B777-300ERs will be used on European routes, replacing ageing B747-400s and the B777-300ERs that THAI has leased from India's Jet Airways and will give up the fleet upon the expiry of the three-year lease by then.

The new aircraft provided by BOC will be configured with two classes, 40 seats in business class and 306 in economy class.

I think the changes are quite high that they will replace the worn out, not updated 747-400 used to CPH and ARN. the configuration should also fit as it's no 1.-class and a lot of economy seats


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8657 times:

What will become of the 9W aircraft?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29670 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8658 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 3):
Is this a new order or an existing one now taken by Thai?

Boeing's O&D database is down at the moment, but I do not recall any recent orders by the Bank of China, so I am guessing Boeing will soon be announcing a new order for 77Ws (nothing in this week's update).


User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8576 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
Which other airlines operate both A346s and 77Ws?


EY and QR.



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinephlstudent From United States of America, joined May 2006, 498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8541 times:

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):

4. Lease rate is US$ 1.15 million per month + $ 5.87 million commitment fee per aircraft (what is this? as its non refundable).

Commitment fee is a fee paid upfront by the lessee to the lender. It is non refundable as you state. In very simple terms it is a fee that Bank of China gets for leasing the aircraft to Thai. I have also seen it referred to as a fronting fee.


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4264 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8393 times:

Quoting phlstudent (Reply 11):
Commitment fee is a fee paid upfront by the lessee to the lender. It is non refundable as you state. In very simple terms it is a fee that Bank of China gets for leasing the aircraft to Thai. I have also seen it referred to as a fronting fee.

It makes sense. Bank of China makes a lot of costs by ordering them. This fee will cover and prevent a loss if Thai Airways calls them on the last moment or after two months to back out while Bank of China paid and confirmed these things. The amount is worked away in a slightly lower monthly fee which doesn't seem too high for new 77Ws.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3173 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8374 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Boeing's O&D database is down at the moment, but I do not recall any recent orders by the Bank of China, so I am guessing Boeing will soon be announcing a new order for 77Ws (nothing in this week's update).

Boeing also has some UFO 777s orders that could be these. Especially consider the rather short delivery time with only 22 months for the first aircraft


User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3423 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8046 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
Which other airlines operate both A346s and 77Ws?

CX did at one time.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7566 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 14):
CX did at one time.

Yes, and EK ordered and then cancelled the A346 and now, QR's A346s are due to head to Buenos Aires (I guess you could say that was inEVITAble?  ). Conclusion: TG's A346s may not be around for that much longer; the A345s - that most perfect combination of aircraft and colour scheme - are only still with TG because no-one else wants them.

There was a report recently which said that TG is soon to place a major widebody order, which is likely to be split between A350s and 787s; expect 788s as an AB6 replacement and a healthy dose of A359s.


User currently offlineEBGARN From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 7):
I think the changes are quite high that they will replace the worn out, not updated 747-400 used to CPH and ARN. the configuration should also fit as it's no 1.-class and a lot of economy seats

One important thing to remember; Thai's updated 744's are the oldest ones in the fleet. Their newest are the ones doing runs to, among others, CPH and ARN with a very dated interior. I wonder which planes will go first?



A306,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/6,A380,B717,B727,B737,B744,B752/3,B763,B772/3/W,C-130,AN26,CRJ900,Il62,DC-8/9/10,MD80's,BaeR
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7232 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 15):
expect 788s as an AB6 replacement and a healthy dose of A359s.

IIRC, the a333's they have on order are meant as AB6 replacement. I remember reading that at the time of the order.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 15):
Yes, and EK ordered and then cancelled the A346 and now, QR's A346s are due to head to Buenos Aires (I guess you could say that was inEVITAble? ). Conclusion: TG's A346s may not be around for that much longer;

How is that the conlcusion for TG? Not saying it's not possible, but what other airlines do (or might do) is not relevant to TG.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7523 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6954 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
Which other airlines operate both A346s and 77Ws?

In addition to the ones mentioned by other a.netters, if you consider now BA and IB as a single company, they would operate both of them.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 8):
What will become of the 9W aircraft?

Any chance 9W may redeploy them again? To LHR or BRU perhaps?

I suppose another option would be to lease them out again. Perhaps JJ or TK might be interested. I guess if they decide to sell them, it should not be too difficult... what do you guys think?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6930 times:

Quoting na (Reply 3):
Those Jet 77Ws will surely have a very thick coat of paint soon. A new livery every second year. Jet now has to find a new client or sell them finally.

Well 9W has said that they might deploy the 77W's currently with TK and TG on new routes, as they do expect the India market to pick up from 2011 onwards. A fleet of 3 (as they have now) makes no sense.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6806 times:

Looks like these are configured for long haul routes. From the link in OP:

The business class will have flat-bed seats while the economy seats will be equipped with personal screens featuring inflight audio-video on-demand systems.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4593 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6681 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Quoting na (Reply 3):
Is this a new order or an existing one now taken by Thai?

Boeing's O&D database is down at the moment, but I do not recall any recent orders by the Bank of China, so I am guessing Boeing will soon be announcing a new order for 77Ws (nothing in this week's update).

Which means that the B77W keeps doing very well. And that comes as no surprise to me and I guess to the most of us here.  .


User currently offlineFlyNWA727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6566 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
In addition to the ones mentioned by other a.netters, if you consider now BA and IB as a single company, they would operate both of them.

Both of those airlines retain their separate distinct brands so that's not a great example. I surely wouldn't say that KLM operates A380s because AF does.



First flight aboard a Northwest B727-251ADV out of BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport, my hometown airport.
User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

EY currently operates both the A346 & the 777

[Edited 2010-10-08 16:20:54]

[Edited 2010-10-08 16:21:19]

User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

So no Boeing 748I as B744 replacement at Thai Airways ?

25 JAAlbert : Jeez, $1.15 million US per plane per month? So how much revenue can a plane like this generate in a month?
26 timpdx : Just doing some lazy quick math for a long haul A340/B777: 200 Y and just 20 J seats ($500 segment long haul on coach, $2500 segment in business) that
27 777law : This may be a bit technical - but the Lessor is not Bank of China per se - but BOC Aviation which - although connected to BOC retains a great deal of
28 Post contains links ohsopc : Nope. Both A346 and A345 are going to be in TG's fleet for a while... They just issued a press release yesterday outlining their future fleet retrofi
29 Kappel : That's why they have 6 a380's on order. I doubt they'll order the 748 as well, but with TG you never know. Thanks for the link! I wonder if they will
30 kaitak : So, will these aircraft use the SALE customer code (-AL), or does BOC have its own, i.e. will these aircraft be 777-3AL(ER)s?
31 na : 6 A380s arent enough to serve Thai´s main routes. They need more planes bigger than 77Ws.
32 Post contains images EPA001 : I agree. But were they not in the process of acquiring quite a lot of new larger Airbus and/or Boeing airplanes? So this might be to overcome the fir
33 Stitch : The A388 and 77W are the only two models that have not seen their lease rates collapse during the GFC, though TG is paying towards the bottom third o
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