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EVV & Star Alliance  
User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

I have noticed that the world's largest airline alliance, which serves over 800 cities worldwide, has absolutely no service to Evansville, Indiana (EVV). Are there any other gaping holes (like EVV) in the Star Alliance network they have yet to fill?

EVV has been served by OneWorld and SkyTeam carriers (AA & DL) for decades. The last Star carrier to serve EVV was US Airways Express in 2004. USAir/Allegheny/Piedmont had a long history of serving EVV with mainline equipment on a regular basis. In the late 80s, United Express (Air Wisconsin) served EVV from ORD with ATPs and Fokker F27s.

Does Star Alliance have any say, or are they able to put any pressure on member carriers' planning departments to fill in holes simply are simply allowing revenue to go to the other alliances?


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11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Quoting jmc1975 (Thread starter):
I have noticed that the world's largest airline alliance, which serves over 800 cities worldwide, has absolutely no service to Evansville, Indiana (EVV). Are there any other gaping holes (like EVV) in the Star Alliance network they have yet to fill?

With due respect to the inhabitants of Evansville, IN, it is far from a "gaping hole" in the Star Alliance network.

No hyperbole, eh  .

At best, Evansville is a small hole in UAL/CO's Midwestern route system.

Quoting jmc1975 (Thread starter):
Does Star Alliance have any say, or are they able to put any pressure on member carriers' planning departments to fill in holes simply are simply allowing revenue to go to the other alliances?

Evansville is the third largest city in the state of Indiana - a state whose economy has been hard hit by the current recession. I don't imagine the UAL route planners are losing any sleep about revenue they are losing from EVV. Stop trying to make your regional issue a global one.


User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 1):
Stop trying to make your regional issue a global one.

It's actually vice-versa. With Star Alliance being an all-powerful global entity, this thread intends to discuss the viability of the global entity meeting the demand of a region in which its industries have global ties.



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User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 2):

It's actually vice-versa. With Star Alliance being an all-powerful global entity, this thread intends to discuss the viability of the global entity meeting the demand of a region in which its industries have global ties.

In the era of globalization and outsourcing, your last sentence is hardly unique applicable to virtually everywhere in the world.

If Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, Air New Zealand or any other Star Alliance member feel the demand is there in EVV, they are free to commence service.

In the interim, UA has a fleet of regional aircraft (from SF340s upwards) and can't make money connecting EVV pax at their global hub in ORD. US doesn't feel it is feasible to restart EVV from either PHL, CLT, or DCA. AC has everything from B1900s on upwards at their disposition but hasn't shown any inkling of starting service from YYZ.

There are some cities in the midwest that only seem to be able to support one carrier at ORD, in addition to limited connections elsewhere. I wish EVV the best (gotta love Don Mattingly, plus the Whirlpool factory), but it appears EVV's lack of Star service is a reflection of market realities.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 1):
Evansville is the third largest city in the state of Indiana - a state whose economy has been hard hit by the current recession.

I live in Indiana. While it is true that our state's economy has been hard-hit by the recession, unemployment here in Indiana is lower than the rates in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan. And Indiana is adding jobs faster than the national average.

Back to EVV and Star: US Airways served EVV with service to PIT and CLT until 2005 or so. However, EVV has a major leakage problem. A significant portion of potential EVV traffic flows to SDF, IND, OWB (G4), and STL. A lot of it is due to the fact that EVV has the highest fares of any Midwestern airport and that EVV was inflexible in incentives when courting G4, who later went to OWB. EVV realizes the high fares, and has applied for a SCASD grant for FL to BWI.

Although I feel that EVV should try to lure G4 instead of FL due to the WN/FL merger, I think that a lack of a Star Alliance carrier is just as big of a of the problem at EVV. Many companies have a presence in the EVV area, but that number has been dwindling (Mead Johnson left for Chicago recently, and Whirlpool plans on closing a refrigerator plant). Nonetheless, there has been considerable growth at other companies such as locally-based Old National Bank (now the second-biggest bank in Indiana behind JPMorgan Chase's operations in the state). I feel that a lack of connection options, particularly in Star Alliance, are part of EVV's traffic issues.

Then again, SBN doesn't have any AA or oneworld service and has had none since 2003. But unlike EVV, SBN is well-served by UA/CO, DL, and G4 with almost three times the daily flights of EVV. This means that the lack of AA or oneworld hasn't hurt SBN or the economy of the fourth-largest city in Indiana one bit. The more pressing need at SBN than oneworld is western connections. There is leakage, mostly to ORD, MDW, and IND, and some potential SBN pax drive to FWA for Eagle flights to DFW, though SBN overall leakagr is not as severe as EVV. Since a significant portion of the leakage is westbound traffic, SBN filed a SCASD for F9 to DEN recently.

Quoting jmc1975 (Thread starter):
Does Star Alliance have any say, or are they able to put any pressure on member carriers' planning departments to fill in holes simply are simply allowing revenue to go to the other alliances?

I have talked to a former UA exec many times. I thought I remembered him saying that UA wanted LH and other Star carriers to serve certain international routes at UA's request because UA didn't have the planes for the route.

[Edited 2010-10-10 13:35:58]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
I feel that a lack of connection options, particularly in Star Alliance, are part of EVV's traffic issues.

But what connection options is EVV missing? AA pretty well has things west covered, and DL pretty well has things east covered. I'd guess that between CLT and ORD, UA/US would add fewer than 10 one-stop destinations to EVV's portfolio.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2001 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
AA pretty well has things west covered, and DL pretty well has things east covered.

Agreed. Lack of star alliance service is hardly an issue...UAX to ORD would be the logical link, but AA has that covered. If AA de-hubs O'Hare, then I'm sure UA will step in, but for now, EVV has service to Chicago and the connections beyond. What EVV really needs is an LCC, and it seems like G4s type of town. However, as another member pointed out, the fact that they're not already in EVV is the fault of the airport itself.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
However, EVV has a major leakage problem. A significant portion of potential EVV traffic flows to SDF, IND, OWB (G4), and STL.

Leakage to IND will only get worse once I-69 is completed as far as Bloomington in another 4 - 5 years. SBN will face a similar problem by the end of the decade once US-31 is upgraded to interstate standards (Interstate 67?) between SBN and IND, but I don't think SBN will leak as many passengers as EVV will.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
But what connection options is EVV missing? AA pretty well has things west covered, and DL pretty well has things east covered.

True, but AA's DFW is down to one flight and DL is dropping their two daily MEM flights shortly.

The problem is not about EVV's lack of connection hubs per se, but a lack of flights and competition in general that is hindering business. Last I checked, Delta is the dominant market force at EVV with a 70+% market share in EVV. DL's EVV share is about 25 points higher than DL's market-leading share of traffic at FWA or SBN and over 40 points higher than their market-leading share at IND. As a result of this, as EVV's SCASD application points out, EVV has the highest fares in Indiana or any airport in the Great Lakes region as of Q1 2010. EVV's average one-way fare is $225, while IND is $141 and SDF is $158. Other small Hoosier airports fared better, with SBN 's average fare being $160, and FWA's at $177.

EVV served 155,963 pax last year (again from the SCASD application), down 63% from 247,375 in 2005. Clearly, something can be done here to mitigate traffic loss. This begs the question: Where are the employees of Toyota, Alcoa, AK Steel, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Mead Johnson, SABIC Plastics, Vectren, and Shoe Carnival flying out of? And what if one or more of these companies has a corporate contract with UA/CO/US? UA to ORD/DEN/IAH or US to CLT/PHL could help tremendously in winning back business traffic lost to SDF/IND/STL.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

If UA, US, or CO felt that serving EVV would be a revenue generator then they would be serving it. It's not as though any of their express affiliates have a shortage of prop aircraft. And they seem to be unloading the 50-seater jets with enthusiasm.


fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1915 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8):
And what if one or more of these companies has a corporate contract with UA/CO/US? UA to ORD/DEN/IAH or US to CLT/PHL could help tremendously in winning back business traffic lost to SDF/IND/STL.

It could, but it could not. How would more seats to ORD help anyone but those who fly on a UA contract - not likely to be too many, as any company that moves a lot of passengers in to and out of EVV probably has an AA or DL contract?

[Edited 2010-10-10 19:28:03]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinelv From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1890 times:

I have to speak from the heart on this one. My mom was born and raised in EVV, I go there at least once a year for the family reunion, nearly all my aunts, uncles and cousins live there and I even have "Thunder on the Ohio" as one my likes on facebook, but lack of air travel is not a problem. I always just fly into either STL or IND and rent a car. There really is not a lot in EVV to draw in air travel. Toyota is cutting back in Gibson County, which ever pharmaceutical company it is that has the operations there is cutting back (cant remember who right now).... there is no reason for every airline to fly into there.

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