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The Hajj Thread (2010)  
User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15568 times:

The Pre-Hajj flights have already started. Some airlines needed more planes to bring all the pilgrims to Saudi Arabia.

Usually, Garuda Indonesia will lease between ten and fifteen aircrafts. In 2009 they had 3 A330-200s, 3 A330-300, 4 B747-400s, 1 B767-300 and 2 B777-200s, see also last years thread: www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4588002

Airbus Industries also offer the A380-800 to Garuda Indonesia for the Hajj flights, but only Jakarta (CGK) and Denpassar (DPS) [but not a muslim region] could handle the A380 - so I don't think that we will see a Garuda A380.

The website "History of PIA" says that Pakistan International Airlines will do it's Hajj flight with it's own fleet (B747-300, B777-200): www.piac.com.pk/schedule/HajjSchedule2010.pdf

Unfortunatly, the National Hajj Commission of Nigeria (NAHCON) has not yet published the flights on its homepage: www.nigeriahajji.com

Then there were other operators like Alwafeer Airlines (3 B747-400s), Lion Airlines (2 B747-400s) and Saudi Arabian (different aircrafts) which does also yearly around Umrah flights and now also the Hajj flights.

Here are the leasings so far:

AIRBUS A310-300
CS-TDI (c/n 573) of White lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)
CS-TKI (c/n 448) of White lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)

AIRBUS A320-200
A9C-BAZ (c/n 645) of Bahrain Air operate for Al-Lama group (Iraq)

AIRBUS A321-200
TC-TCF (c/n 775) of Turkuaz Airlines lsd to ???

AIRBUS A330-200
C-GGTS (c/n 250) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
C-GITS (c/n 271) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
C-GPTS (c/n 480) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
G-SMAN (c/n 261) of Monarch Airlines lsd to Garuda Indonesia

AIRBUS A330-300
EC-JHP (c/n 670) of Iberworld Airlines lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-KCP (c/n 833) of Iberworld Airlines lsd to Garuda Indonesia
OY-VKG (c/n 349) of Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia lsd to Garuda Indonesia
OY-VKH (c/n 356) of Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia lsd to Garuda Indonesia
OY-VKI (c/n 357) of Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia lsd to Garuda Indonesia
9M-XAA (c/n 54) of Air Asia X lsd to Bahrain Air operate for Al-Lama group (Iraq)

BOEING 747-300
TF-AMJ (c/n 23030/593) of Air Atlanta Icelandic lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

BOEING 747-400
EC-KQC (c/n 26549/1030) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-KSM (c/n 27178/1015) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Biman Bangladesh Airlines
EC-KXN (c/n 25703/1025) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-LGL (c/n 26555/1075) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Biman Bangladesh Airlines
HS-AKS (c/n 26881/989) of Phuket Airlines lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

BOEING 757-200
EC-LBC (c/n 26276/704) of Mint Airways lsd to nasair (Saudi Arabia)
EI-IGC (c/n 24747/275) of Air Italy lsd to ???
G-OJIB (c/n 24292/219) of Astraeus lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
G-STRZ (c/n 27622/745) of Astraeus lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
TC-ETE (c/n 30044/954) of Atlasjet Airlines lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

BOEING 767-300
G-OBYE (c/n 28979/691) of Thomson Airways lsd to Garuda Indonesia

Regards

Martial
www.ch-aviation.ch

[Edited 2010-10-11 14:03:03]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15476 times:

Can someone explain how the yearly timing of the Hajj is determined? I know that the Muslim calendar is unpredictable and is based on sightings of certain stars from Meccah (IIRC) but is it during a certain Islamic month, or what? How much warning is there?

The Hajj is such a fascinating time in aviation because of the sudden surge in demand. Everything airworthy (and then some   ) is pressed into service. Last year saw an L-1011 in service, IIRC.

Quoting viasa (Thread starter):

Airbus Industries also offer the A380-800 to Garuda Indonesia for the Hajj flights,

They'd only need them for a couple of months. What did Airbus plan to do with these when Garuda was done with them? Yes, an A380 in all-Y configuration is the ideal Hajj plane, but they don't exactly grow on trees.


User currently offlinedfw11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15432 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Can someone explain how the yearly timing of the Hajj is determined? I know that the Muslim calendar is unpredictable and is based on sightings of certain stars from Meccah (IIRC) but is it during a certain Islamic month, or what? How much warning is there?

(IIRC) The Hajj begins 70 days after the end of Ramadan. We just had a seminar about Islam and they discussed the details of the Hajj but please correct me if I am wrong.
I had no idea the amount of planes getting leased to Saudi Arabian and Guarda Indoniesa (Couldn't remember the codes)!

Great time for Spotting!



“I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” - Steven Wright
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15406 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Muslim calendar is unpredictable

It is based on a lunar calendar, so very predictable. No star signings needed.
Every year it moves 12 days earlier than the previous year.

Onur air from Turkey just sent over a 400 people crew over there for the A300s and the 330s they have.
I have read some place that the Turkish pax will be carried 60% by TK and 40% by Saudia.
Which brings the question; Saudi authorities only allow certain flights by certain carriers and don't want to give away a bigger piece of the pie, or can any airline fly as many flights as they wish during the month?

[Edited 2010-10-11 15:14:14]

User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 855 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 15242 times:

DocLightning,

As TK787 mentioned, It's a lunar calendar. It's similar to the Chinese and Jewish calendars except a 13th month isn't added periodically to the calendar to keep it aligned with solar year (a lunar year is shorter), so it drifts about 2 weeks every year. Another complication is the insistance by religious authorities for the new moon to be sighted by eye (so you have +/- 1 day uncertainty of the exact start and end of Ramadan).

TK787,
Broadly speaking the hajj tour operators chose who they charter with. The Saudi authorities have some guidelines on who can operate a hajj flight but I don't believe there is a quota. There are of course also airport limits (slots, stands) to contend with.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14982 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 4):

As TK787 mentioned, It's a lunar calendar. It's similar to the Chinese and Jewish calendars except a 13th month isn't added periodically to the calendar to keep it aligned with solar year (a lunar year is shorter), so it drifts about 2 weeks every year. Another complication is the insistance by religious authorities for the new moon to be sighted by eye (so you have +/- 1 day uncertainty of the exact start and end of Ramadan).

Maybe that's it. So once Ramadan has ended, it will be 70 days to the Hajj, no matter when the moon is sighted?


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14946 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
Onur air from Turkey just sent over a 400 people crew over there for the A300s and the 330s they have.

Onur Air and Atlasjet Airlines has long term leasing contracts with Saudi Arabian Airlines, so they are not only for the Hajj pilgrim flights. As I understand, they operate normal SV schedule flights.

Onur Air: 6 A300-600Rs and 3 A330-300s
Atlasjet: 3 A330-200s and 2 B757-200s

But during the Hajj saison they usually send more planes to Saudi Arabia.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
Every year it moves 12 days earlier than the previous year.

Thats very interesting. Now, lot of European charter/leisure operaters has no work after the summer vacations for it's own widebody aircrafts. So it's very good for them to fly during the Hajj. But in some years the Hajj and the summer holidays will be at the same time. Let's see were all the widebodys came from...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
They'd only need them for a couple of months. What did Airbus plan to do with these when Garuda was done with them? Yes, an A380 in all-Y configuration is the ideal Hajj plane, but they don't exactly grow on trees.

The offer was made in June 2010 (or before), here is a link to "The Indonesia Today":
http://theindonesiatoday.com/the-new...-garuda-a380-for-hajj-service.html


User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14933 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Maybe that's it. So once Ramadan has ended, it will be 70 days to the Hajj, no matter when the moon is sighted?

Well, as HiJazzey said, there's always +/- 1 day uncertainty. You can never be 100% sure when Hajj (or Ramadan. Or New Year. Or Eid) will be until 1-2 days beforehand. What's more there's always debate and confusion-everyone agrees on one thing, then a rogue state (usually Libya) says something else.
MS has yet to publish its Hajj schedule, but as usual it will be very busy. Last year they leased a bunch of A300s and 767s IIRC.


User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1483 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14780 times:

I understand that there will be flights operating to Saudi Arabia for a period of time followed by a short break before the flow of pilgrims reverses as they head home.

Can anyone give an indication of each of these period ... better still, if someone could explain the dates for the flights to and from Saudi Arabia for Garuda.

Many thanks.

KC Sim


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 14611 times:

I don't know the exact two periodes with Garuda, but for PIA:


Pre-Hajj flights: 11-Oct-2010 till 10-Nov-2010
Hajj: 14-Nov-2010 till 18-Nov-2010
Post-Hajj flights: 21-Nov-2010 till 21-Dec-2010


User currently offlineaviationweek From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14457 times:

It's a fascinating mass movement of people. This blog lists some of the carriers involved in the operation http://bit.ly/bFHuyh. What other airlines lay on special flights for Hajj?

User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13837 times:

From the Nigerian Thread are this information: Nigeria Aviation Thread: Part 14 (by Alibo5NGN Sep 14 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Quote:
Max Air has announced that it will fly 36,000 pilgrims (43% of the total number) to Saudi Arabia this year, following the allocation by the National Hajj Commission of Nigeria (NAHCON). The airline will use its three B743 aircraft for the operation and keep a fourth as standby aircraft.

Kabo Air, Meridian Airlines and Medview Airline will be responsible for carrying the remaining Hajj pilgrims. Meridian and Medview will have to wet-lease aircraft for this end, while Kabo Air may employ its B742 aircraft.

Unfortunately there is nothing on the homepage of NAHCON and on the websites of the airlines:

www.maxairltd.com
www.kaboair.com
www.meridianairlines.net
www.medviewgrp.com


User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13460 times:

Quoting viasa (Thread starter):

AIRBUS A321-200
TC-TCF (c/n 775) of Turkuaz Airlines lsd to ???

This aircraft is also leased to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair).


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13401 times:

Can someone tell us if both the Pullmantur 744s which will be leased to Bangladesh Biman will have BG titles ?

Viasa

Will be great to have a link about the Airbus proposal to lease A380 to Garuda. This is the first time i hear about that !


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 13244 times:

Any idea if other non-Muslim states airlines will be flying charters this year to cater their Muslim communities, few years back South African Airways and Finnair did so, Thai Airways as well last year or are they regular with these?

User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13035 times:

I have a correction (the Bahrain A320 is not in Hajj ops) and some adds to the list. And the first aircraft for a Nigerian Hajj operator is also known and the flight schedule is online on www.nigeriahajji.com

Here the new list:

AIRBUS A310-300
CS-TDI (c/n 573) of White lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)
CS-TKI (c/n 448) of White lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)


AIRBUS A321-200
TC-ETH (c/n 968) of Atlasjet Airlines lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
TC-TCF (c/n 775) of Turkuaz Airlines lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)


AIRBUS A330-200
C-GGTS (c/n 250) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
C-GITS (c/n 271) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
C-GPTS (c/n 480) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
G-SMAN (c/n 261) of Monarch Airlines lsd to Garuda Indonesia

AIRBUS A330-300
EC-JHP (c/n 670) of Iberworld Airlines lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-KCP (c/n 833) of Iberworld Airlines lsd to Garuda Indonesia
OY-VKG (c/n 349) of Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia lsd to Garuda Indonesia
OY-VKH (c/n 356) of Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia lsd to Garuda Indonesia
OY-VKI (c/n 357) of Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia lsd to Garuda Indonesia
9M-XAA (c/n 54) of Air Asia X lsd to Bahrain Air operate for Al-Lama group (Iraq)

BOEING 747-300
TF-AMJ (c/n 23030/593) of Air Atlanta Icelandic lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

BOEING 747-400
EC-KQC (c/n 26549/1030) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-KSM (c/n 27178/1015) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Biman Bangladesh Airlines
EC-KXN (c/n 25703/1025) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-LGL (c/n 26555/1075) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Biman Bangladesh Airlines
HS-AKS (c/n 26881/989) of Phuket Airlines lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
TF-AMV (c/n 28022/1082 of Air Atlanta Icelandic lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

BOEING 757-200
EC-LBC (c/n 26276/704) of Mint Airways lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)
EI-IGC (c/n 24747/275) of Air Italy lsd to Alwafeer Airlines (joint ops with nasair)
G-OJIB (c/n 24292/219) of Astraeus lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
G-STRZ (c/n 27622/745) of Astraeus lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
TC-ETE (c/n 30044/954) of Atlasjet Airlines lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

BOEING 767-300
CS-TFS (c/n 25411/408) of Euroatlantic Airways lsd to Med-View Airline
CS-TFT (c/n 26208/505) of Euroatlantic Airways lsd to Med-View Airline
G-OBYE (c/n 28979/691) of Thomson Airways lsd to Garuda Indonesia
I-AIGG (c/n 28041/614) of Air Italy lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
I-AIGJ (c/n 28039/610) of Air Italy lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines


User currently offlinegffgold From Indonesia, joined Feb 2007, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12827 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Yes, an A380 in all-Y configuration is the ideal Hajj plane

I don't know about other countries but in Indonesia wealthier hajjis can choose a 'Plus Plus' service that includes business class travel and nicer accommodation.


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12790 times:

Quoting viasa (Reply 15):
BOEING 747-400
EC-KQC (c/n 26549/1030) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-KSM (c/n 27178/1015) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Biman Bangladesh Airlines
EC-KXN (c/n 25703/1025) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Garuda Indonesia
EC-LGL (c/n 26555/1075) of Air Pullmantur lsd to Biman Bangladesh Airlines
HS-AKS (c/n 26881/989) of Phuket Airlines lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines
TF-AMV (c/n 28022/1082 of Air Atlanta Icelandic lsd to Saudi Arabian Airlines

There's a Corsair in there somewhere, trying to obtain the registration for it... doing Garuda to/from/via Medan.

Quoting gffgold (Reply 16):
I don't know about other countries but in Indonesia wealthier hajjis can choose a 'Plus Plus' service that includes business class travel and nicer accommodation.

Well, they fly on the regular flights, not on the Hajj flights...

What's funny about the "Hajj ++" is that, the Hajj is supposed to be an experience of being humbled (being around 2 million other people at the same time in 1 place...)... Humbling with a Hajj++ ????   

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12734 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 17):
There's a Corsair in there somewhere, trying to obtain the registration for it... doing Garuda to/from/via Medan.

It's F-HSEA. That's the only plane of Corsair that flow under GA flightnumber.

Hellenic Imperial Airways send also one of it's four Boeing 747-200s (SX-TID) to Saudi Arabia. It does flights for Royal Air Maroc.

Here is a Youtube Video about Garuda and the A380 - who can translate? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4qIkfgNitU



User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12640 times:

Quoting viasa (Thread starter):

C-GGTS (c/n 250) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
C-GITS (c/n 271) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia
C-GPTS (c/n 480) of Air Transat lsd to Garuda Indonesia

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to find out, does anyone know where these aircraft will be base? I do know Indonesia, but I meant actual airports.

Cheers!~


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12418 times:

Quoting viasa (Reply 18):
Here is a Youtube Video about Garuda and the A380 - who can translate?

"Airbus offers the 2 floor widebody, the A380, to Garuda. The rest is marketing stuff... then "Indonesia having potential for a large widebody market... Able to carry more on hajj flights. The minister for state owned enterprises is very interested but says it needs a further look into especially for use outside the hajj season."

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 19):
I just wanted to find out, does anyone know where these aircraft will be base? I do know Indonesia,

OK, the 763 is BDJ, SOC has the 333s, BPN the 332s, UPG will have either or both the 332 and 333. SUB, MES and CGK takes the 747s. PDG, PLM takes the 332... BTJ either the 332/333... F-HSEA is in MES.
Actual distribution of which plane is where, am still waiting for the info to come in... (everyone's been busy I guess).



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinepaparadzi From Malaysia, joined Jan 2005, 201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12386 times:

In Malaysia, the Hajj operation is split between MH and SV.

MH will be operating 9M-MPQ which has been reconfigured for charter operations, as well as 9M-MPK which is in normal 3-class configuration. Beside KUL, MH will also mount Hajj operation from PEN, JHB, TGG, KCH and BKI.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M Radzi Desa



SV is using 2 A330-300 leased from Onur Air, TC-OCA and TC-OCC. Not sure if SV will be sending other aircrafts, or if these two will be flying to other countries as well.



Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12109 times:

B744 HS-STC is also on the job for SVA. Just heard it on SVA4207.

User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 11888 times:

TF-AMX ex ANZ ZK-SUI Air Atlanta Icelandic leased to Saudi Arabian Airlines is another addition if it's been delivered yet ex XMN.

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 11875 times:

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 23):
TF-AMX ex ANZ ZK-SUI Air Atlanta Icelandic leased to Saudi Arabian Airlines is another addition if it's been delivered yet ex XMN.

Isnt that currently undergoing a BCF-conversion? Or do you mean they are using it for the Hadj before its being converted?


25 Alibo5NGN : According to Aviation in Nigeria Blog, Med-View Airline has wet-leased two B767-300s (CS-TFS and CS-TFT) from EuroAtlantic Airways for this year's Haj
26 Post contains links viasa : Yes, it is in Hajj operation with Saudi Arabian Airlines. Here is a picture: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zp_SnPX242...0/ZKSUI-TFAMX_OCT10_suppliedtt.jp
27 KFlyer : The hajj flights from Indonesia are making the Sri Lankan skies more crowded, and more beautiful ! Just seen one heading towards Saudi Arabia, looked
28 soups : MS is operating from Accra, Ghana for the HAJJ flights, majority of them are using AT, ME, EK, ET, 8U, TK
29 ETStar : Ethiopian is operating a leased Orient Thai 747 from Njamena, Ouagadougou, Banjul, Lome, and Addis Ababa. Eritrean is operating flights from Bamako to
30 4holer : Is that L1011 that left Victorville in use at all?
31 viasa : Only 10 days left until the Hajj starts. Two more planes ad to the list. Here the updated list: AIRBUS A310-300 CS-TDI (c/n 573) of White lsd to Alwaf
32 PRM : The A330-200 being used is SU-GCH The B747-300 in use is HS-UTN
33 411A : No, and not lkely to be, either, for legal reasons.
34 na : Strange no photos of the Phuket and Orient Thai 744s have surfaced yet. Also does anybody know if the Pullmantur fleet carries Logos of Biman or Garuf
35 FatmirJusufi : Does the Saudi Government imposed or already apply any restriction for the Indonesian pilgrims, such as limited number of participants?!
36 afterburner : I believe the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia applies a quota for the number of hajj pilgrims from every country based on the Muslim population of each count
37 FatmirJusufi : Restriction rule is not applied for our country, Kosovo. As far as I know Turkey is limited up to 100,000 Hajj pilgrims, so I wanted to know more abo
38 CX Flyboy : Saw some photos of the Orient Thai 744 delivery ceremony in Bangkok. The photos did not show the whole plane but the front was white with no titles a
39 Bio : Hi, there is also one 767-200 from Air Italy (I-AIGI). It is flying from DEL. Saluti!
40 DocLightning : Yeah, I was gonna say, isn't the Hajj about the journey being uncomfortable and long and all that? Isn't a luxurious vacation to Meccah the antithesi
41 gffgold : Hee hee! You're right, Doc. It really does make a mockery of the 'all equal in God's eyes' ethos. I doubt the phenomenon is unique to Indonesia, but w
42 Post contains links viasa : I'm sure about that! Here is a picture of the Adisumarmo International Airport in Solo.: http://mcetak.suaramerdeka.com/PUBLI...phs/012/02_11_2010_01
43 Post contains images 4holer : Confused. So why make it flyable and ferry it around the world? Wouldn't they have researched those issues first? Care to expand on what the legal re
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