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New Zealand Aviation Thread #85  
User currently offlineNZ1 From Australia, joined May 2004, 2277 posts, RR: 25
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14833 times:
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Please continue the discussion here.

NZ1

200 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 14806 times:
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There's a follow-up to the Ian Stables/Jetstar "incident":

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...heckin-assault-20101012-16gwh.html

"Police have arrested and charged a Jetstar representative with assaulting New Zealand radio host Iain Stables."

Mr. Stables version of the event paints him in a reasonably innocent light and he denies throwing anything at the CSA.

We don't get the version of the alleged assaulter, so make of it what you will, but apparently Air NZ has jumped on to it with internet ads:

"Air New Zealand was quick to seize on the incident, placing internet adverts that urged customers to "get flights, not into fights"."

It's a good line.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14697 times:

You know, a lot of space is take up on this forum with various individual's NZ armchair longhaul network planning scenarios. I'm sick of it so I've decided to state my own personal opinion below!

Assume all 744's are withdrawn:

AKL-PER-JNB 772 or 773 (this is as exciting as it gets) 3-4x/week
AKL-PPT-GRU (open to suggestions) 3x/week

AKL-NRT 772 daily
AKL-HKG-LHR-LAX-AKL 773 daily

AKL-YVR 772 3-5x/week depending on season
AKL-SFO 772 daily
AKL-LAX 772 & 773 mix 6x/week
AKL-RAR-LAX 772 1x/week
(APW & TBU-USA pax will travel via HNL instead of LAX)

AKL-HNL 763 2x/week
AKL-APW-HNL 2x/week 320 (ETOPS issues?)
AKL-TBW-HNL 2x/week 320
AKL-NAN-HNL 1x/week 320


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7394 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14656 times:

there was a nice G550 in AKL today that was heading to TUO this am for those interested. I have forgotten the rego though.

User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14401 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 2):

AKL-HNL 763 2x/week
AKL-APW-HNL 2x/week 320 (ETOPS issues?)
AKL-TBW-HNL 2x/week 320
AKL-NAN-HNL 1x/week 320

Are you sure that A320s have the range to do APW/TBW/NAN-HNL? 738s as operated by FJ have a range advantage. The best planes for Pacific Islands to Hawaii would be the 737-700s as used by Aloha before they stopped flying. I think the seating was 8/108 and these planes did cover long stages. Perhaps rather than AirNZ, this flying could be done by Polynesian Blue, or whatever their name will be.


User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14309 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 4):
Are you sure that A320s have the range to do APW/TBW/NAN-HNL?

Good point and that's something I don't know... in my virtyal NZ world, perhaps they would need to be modified- but not at the expense of cargo (if the modifications don;t work out, then bin the idea).

I think I should get brownie points for not not launching 767's to every star alliance European hub (or Manchester) via a Pacific island!!!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14296 times:
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Quoting alangirvan (Reply 4):
Are you sure that A320s have the range to do APW/TBW/NAN-HNL?

Three or four years ago, the generally accepted range of the A320 with a full, commercially viable payload used to be about 2400 miles.

United used to use them DEN-ANC, which is a teensy tad more, but United has slightly less capacity than most because of first class.

They are scheduled for US transcons (2500 miles say) and can usually do it, but JetBlue frequently made - or used to make - a fuel stop at certain times of the year.

The longest regularly scheduled route I knew of was SJO-LAX at 2700 miles, but that was only going north. The return almost always had a scheduled fuel stop (ACA or GUA).

Things have changed a wee bit, I believe the range has been tweaked up to maybe 2600 miles from and to airports without any special conditions (hot or high, etc), and I believe the sharklets will tweak it a tad more - but not considerably more.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14274 times:

TBU (21°14'17"S 175°08'14"W) HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) 22° (NE) 3148 mi
APW (13°49'47"S 171°59'50"W) HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) 21° (N) 2598 mi
NAN (17°45'19"S 177°26'36"E) HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) 32° (NE) 3162 mi

Great Circle Mapper shows the distances as above. An AirNZ A320 would have to lift 171 seats on those sectors. But since the Fiji Government is looking to China for some aid, I wonder if a CA919 would have the range for these sectors? Available in 2016, with new tech engines and 3000 mile range, they could be just the plane to fly AKL-TBU-HNL. This is just the same as buying a Chinese built Tablet that runs on Android.

And since Air Pacific already flies to HKG, they could easily extend that onto Manchester, and tap into the market which some other airline people do not think exists.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14171 times:

I've been on six sectors in and out of Honolulu in the last 56 weeks, and all 144 Business Class seats have been occupied.

So the new downgraded all-economy A320, which doesn't even have Space Plus, is probably not ideal for the route,


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14073 times:
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I've been re-reading the speech the Australian Minister of Transport gave in July in which he explains Australia's quite liberal aviation policies:

http://www.minister.infrastructure.g....au/aa/speeches/2010/AS15_2010.htm

It all makes a lot of sense, but this particular section struck home with me:

"To compete effectively in the global aviation industry, Australia's airlines require usable fifth freedom rights if they are to compete with the geographically advantaged carriers who operate from mid hemisphere hubs in Asia and the Middle East.

For an airline in Asia or the Middle East, every flight from Australia to its home base is also a flight to London, a flight to Paris, a flight to Berlin, and a flight to Rome - and without usable fifth freedom rights Australian carriers cannot compete on a fair and equal playing field."

This approach, that fifth freedom rights are critical to the opening up of international markets, is a key element of how Australia approaches air services negotiations."


I assume - or I very much hope - that NZ follows a similar principle. 5th Freedom - traffic rights between a second country and a third country (as LAX-LHR) seem vital to me for Air NZ.

In the great MAN debate here, it seems to me that one way to MAN would be through India, which British Airways doesn't do and from which Emirates has made big bucks by carrying MAN pax to India via DXB.

Mr. Albanese has some comments on the Single Aviation Market - Australia/NZ:

"Not only can Australian and New Zealand airlines fly between the two countries as often as they want to, and beyond the two countries as often as they want to, then can also fly anywhere they want within the two countries, including providing domestic services in the other country.

When combined with arrangements between safety regulators for Mutual Recognition of Air Operator’s Certificates, an airline from New Zealand can provide domestic services within Australia as if it were part of New Zealand, and vice-versa."


I look forward to that happy day.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1669 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14026 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
In the great MAN debate here, it seems to me that one way to MAN would be through India, which British Airways doesn't do and from which Emirates has made big bucks by carrying MAN pax to India via DXB.

The principle is good, but in practice, I don't think that there are any onward rights from India in the NZ-India bilateral. From what I recall of McIlree's comments in a much earlier thread, the countries that have given NZ the best fifth freedom rights are Singapore and Malaysia (and of course, the USA) Some degree of fifth freedom is possible from Hong Kong, mainland China, Argentina, (and Canada also?). Other than that, I'm not sure what's on offer. Perhaps McIlree could be persuaded to give us an update on what's possible and what isn't, as things stand in late 2010?



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5317 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14018 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):
and all 144 Business Class seats have been occupied.

I wonder how many were upgrades/staff travellers?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7394 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14010 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
I wonder how many were upgrades/staff travellers?

very few staff to HNL in general - it has a notoriety for not being able to get out again on staff travel. As far as upgrades I'd say it's actually not so many upgrades...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14002 times:
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Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 10):
The principle is good, but in practice, I don't think that there are any onward rights from India in the NZ-India bilateral. From what I recall of McIlree's comments in a much earlier thread, the countries that have given NZ the best fifth freedom rights are Singapore and Malaysia (and of course, the USA) Some degree of fifth freedom is possible from Hong Kong, mainland China, Argentina, (and Canada also?).

Sure, But I hope some of these negotiations are ongoing with similar guidelines to those laid down by Mr. Albanese.

A goal to work towards rather than be immediately achieved.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13999 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
I wonder how many were upgrades/staff travellers?

+1 !!!
I'd bet over 50%.

OK so my HNL-AKL A320 idea via APW/TBU/RAR won't work... so back to my virtual armchair NZ plan... NZ6 LAX-AKL is 5x/week, 1x/week via RAR, 1x/week via APX/TBU. Can TBU take a 772?
Out of curiosity, in real life as LAX only sees 2 763 flights per week now- do the pilots and/or crew pax back to AKL or do they spend 4-5 days in LAX?

My thoughts on MAN: BA considers this a lost intercontinental cause so there's no point in NZ going after low-yielding business. I'd opt for LAX-CPH before LAX/SFO-MAN.


User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5827 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13969 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 14):
My thoughts on MAN: BA considers this a lost intercontinental cause so there's no point in NZ going after low-yielding business

Yet EK is putting a F equipped A380 in there daily plus a B77W or two. Could be a niche there.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13916 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 15):
Yet EK is putting a F equipped A380 in there daily plus a B77W or two. Could be a niche there.

I used to work for EK and saw a lot of MAN issued J class tickets come across my way- compared to LHR the fare was significantly less.


User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13910 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
I've been re-reading the speech the Australian Minister of Transport gave in July

I am surprised that people have not yet worked out who the intended audience for the Australian Minister's comments about the necessity for fifth freedom rights was.

Quoting mariner (Reply 9):
I look forward to that happy day.

That "happy day" has already arrived. Airwork operates its small fleet of ZK-registered B737F aircraft domestically within Australia.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 10):
I don't think that there are any onward rights from India in the NZ-India bilateral.

Correct.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 10):
Some degree of fifth freedom is possible from Hong Kong, mainland China, Argentina, (and Canada also?).

You can add Thailand to that list. Full fifth freedom rights with no international route or capacity limits are available for New Zealand airlines through Canada. AKL-YVR-MUC anyone?

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Sure, But I hope some of these negotiations are ongoing with similar guidelines to those laid down by Mr. Albanese.

We have done much better than that - Australia has only two "open skies" agreements. New Zealand has well over a dozen such relationships.

[Edited 2010-10-13 01:43:40]


John Macilree
User currently offlinezkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13892 times:

Well EK are doing very good on MAN, its making more money then LGW !! and thus stated they will be going to 3 flights next year , with a possable of a 4th in early 2012. so there must be traffic to move. so come on NZ give us MAN or another market your going to loose and your expansion plans are going down the toilet........


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13893 times:

I was preparing a presentation today and developed a table of New Zealand's top 20 true/origin destination markets in terms of passenger volumes and air services arrangements liberality with New Zealand. I was able to put five countries in each box and then rank them within each box according to market size to look something like this:

Large open markets:
Australia
United Kingdom
United States
Germany
Cook Islands

Smaller open markets:
Canada
Samoa
Singapore
Malaysia
Tonga

Large restricted markets:
China
Fiji*
France
Japan
South Korea

Smaller restricted markets:
India
Thailand*
Hong Kong
South Africa
Taiwan



John Macilree
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13851 times:
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Quoting macilree (Reply 17):
am surprised that people have not yet worked out who the intended audience for the Australian Minister's comments about the necessity for fifth freedom rights was.

I assumed it was for the Americans. Was it for someone else?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6457 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13849 times:

Quoting macilree (Reply 19):
Malaysia

Thanks for the info, I find that quite interesting seeing that MH still isn't daily all year round either. And also with the Cook Islands being in the 'large' category. So it seems like it'd easily point to FRA/MUC/BER being the first route if NZ were to restart services to Continental Europe. Is there much of a difference between demand of China and the 'large open markets' countries - where does it slot in?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13844 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
I assumed it was for the Americans. Was it for someone else?

Not for the Americans. Australia now has an "open skies" agreement with the USA.

Think what markets cannot be served by an Australian airline on a commercially viable basis without fifth freedom rights being available.



John Macilree
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13832 times:
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Quoting macilree (Reply 22):
Think what markets cannot be served by an Australian airline on a commercially viable basis without fifth freedom rights being available.

I've no idea.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5317 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13831 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 15):
Yet EK is putting a F equipped A380 in there daily plus a B77W or two. Could be a niche there.

And where are most of those pax going to? I think we can safely say they aren't going to New Zealand - more than likelly Asia - India & Paksitan


25 macilree : In overall rankings the list is ordered: Australia United Kingdom United States China Fiji
26 macilree : On checking my spreadsheet I realise that I have transposed two countries on this list. It should read: China Fiji* Japan France (including New Caled
27 Post contains images aerokiwi : Ha! Then I grant those brownie points to thee Still, I'd love to know the reasons behind NZ's decision to quit it's BNE hub in the 90s. That was the
28 eta unknown : I think the NZ BNE hub was just bad timing, coinciding with the Asian economic slump. I had access to the NZ cargo loads at the time and recall the BN
29 PA515 : In May 1997 there were four flights a week with 762's. Sat a CHC-BNE-BKK and an AKL-BNE-TPE did a scissor connection. Wed and Sun there was an AKL-BN
30 gasman : Rico the tarveller???? Which advertising moron came up with that?? "New Zealand bitches" - hilarious!! (not). Since when did Air NZ's target demograph
31 Post contains links anstar : Yup - comes across as childish humour. Hardly premium. In comparison Iove the new VS ad.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HLxzevh3NQ Stylish and co
32 kiwiandrew : I think that you also need to bear in mind that NZ had a mediocre product back then , no personal IFE in economy and tiny screens in J with no AVOD .
33 mariner : Isn't that the point of DXB? More and more it is turning into one of the world's great hubs. Why let so much of that UK-Pakistan/India traffic go to
34 DavidByrne : Agreed. Does MALIAT in and of itself lead to automatic fifth freedom rights between contracting parties? My reading of it would suggest it does. If s
35 ash185 : Definitely!!! There has always been huge demand between UK and India, and essentially India is among the top three most important routes for both BA
36 koruman : There are two compelling reasons for this, at least 1) Their high cost-base makes them unable to compete with Emirates on long-haul Australasian and
37 aerokiwi : That's fairly broad. For all you know, all of these pax could be going to the sub-continent or East Asia or even Africa. To use what is a fairly larg
38 koruman : That experiment took place when the only aircraft with the range to fly CHC-LAX was a 392 seat 747-400, with 12 First Class, 66 Business Class and 31
39 aerokiwi : Apparently, yes. One flight connected on to London, carrying European-bound pax, the other was better for local connections and O&D. At elast, fr
40 koruman : Aerokiwi, there is no question that if Air NZ wants to operate 787-volume long-haul services with a guaranteed 30+ Premium Economy and 20+ Business P
41 eta unknown : My two cents on CHC-LAX: I note after the 744 experiment there's been no rush to try it again with a 772. And as pointed out above, why dedicate a shi
42 767er : I do SYD AKL LAX twice a year and the transit is a dream. AKL is so compact and manageable, its almost too easy (the way it should be). I do feel sor
43 koruman : The market would not just be outbound Kiwis. It would be Americans using AKL and CHC as their entry and exit points on vacation, and it would be Brit
44 PA515 : YVR-AKL and SFO-AKL have been added since, reducing the LAX-CHC potential. From Dec 2010 Air NZ will have an almost daily AKL-ZQN 0710/0900 making LA
45 aerokiwi : There may be no question in your mind, but evidently there is a question in everyone elses. The difference being, if NZ axed AKL-China, there would b
46 xiaotung : Just heard over the radio that the Asian immigrants will make up of 28% of the whole Auckland population by 2015. Europeans will drop below 50% for t
47 NZ107 : I also heard that Auckland Airport is trying to secure a Chinese airline. Wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being CZ after all the speculation..
48 aerokiwi : I hope so, to Guangzhou. When I worked at the airport in 1999, we had some random regional airline doing fortnightly A340 flights - China Southwest?
49 Post contains links mariner : In an interesting move, The Australian government has asked the US DOT to approve the Virgin Blue/Delta alliance: http://www.smh.com.au/business/canbe
50 ash185 : Wasnt there a lot of talk a while ago about them confirming flying to auckland as an extension from Brisbane?
51 alangirvan : One Chinese airline which is building up its fleet of A330-200s and ordering A350s is Hong Kong Airways. Their plans seem to be Europe and North Amer
52 alangirvan : You do not have to exaggerate the hassles of doing a domestic/international transit at SYD. Canberra people do it all the time, unless they drive up
53 NZ107 : It's been there for years.. Turn left once you hit landside through the automatic doors and go between the cafe and McDonalds where you'll arrive at
54 777ER : domestic transfers desk. After exiting MAF and going past the waiting area turn left and walk down a hallway to your left and your there
55 alangirvan : I was flying HNL-AKL-DUD that day (flight from HNL does not connect onto non stop to DUD). I will know better next time.
56 Post contains links NZ107 : If anyone's interested, here's a link to some photos of the Skycouch and Spaceseat: http://www.flickr.com/photos/anz787900/sets/72157625172313998/ I'm
57 alangirvan : Perhaps, next time I do the trip to HNL.... JQ will decide that HNL should be their next long haul destination out of AKL, and JQ will have replaced D
58 777ER : Just a pity the B77W wasn't ready intime for the xmas flight, certainly would have enjoyed the new Y+ seat
59 darenw : Quoting duff (Reply 128): So recently Fyfe has been talking about finding additional capacity. Any idea on which type has been presented to the board?
60 macilree : Correct. Key differences between an open and a restricted agreement are the inclusion of fifth freedom rights, no restrictions on routes and capacity
61 DavidByrne : What this tells me is that if NZ were to have a strategy of maximising fifth freedom opportunities in any growth scenario involving Europe, then its
62 macilree : Note that the open access provided by the MALIAT to Mongolia is limited to freighter aircraft only.
63 alangirvan : BA have just announced that they will be doing non stop LHR-EZE next year, and Great Circle Mapper shows SCL-LHR as a little bit longer than EZE-LHR,
64 macilree : Alan, no need to be confused. Could it be that it is the likes of France that Albanese was actually directing his remarks at? I don't think I have se
65 NZ2 : [quote=koruman,reply=8]I've been on six sectors in and out of Honolulu in the last 56 weeks, and all 144 Business Class seats have been occupied. I ha
66 alangirvan : Qantas does have a very good codesharing deal with AF, with connecting points at HKG and SIN. The deal gives AF access to Qantas Australian ports othe
67 Post contains links macilree : The EC already has a mandate from EU member states to negotiate a comprehensive air services agreement with Australia (and separately New Zealand). S
68 Post contains links david_itl : From the MAN twitter: More passengers fly Emirates from Manchester 2 Australia than from any of its other UK airports. Book by 1st Nov 2010 www.emira
69 koruman : David, this is one of the biggest frustrations that I have with Air NZ's route planners. Manchester is not as high-yielding at high volumes of sales
70 koruman : The first trip report for the new A320 high-density Tasman product is now out on Flyer Talk. As most of us predicted, it is a horrible 30 inch pitch s
71 PA515 : No, but some SQ 777-212ER's could be suitable. SQ had 46 777-212ER's. 9V-SQA to 9V-SQN (14 aircraft) L/N 67, 83, 86, 90, 122, 126, 226, 237, 390, 406
72 aerorobnz : Except for the HVC seating on the right hand side of the aircraft....
73 mariner : I was one of those "certain people" and I'm still one of them. If Air NZ wanted to start HKG-MAN, I'd support it. If Air NZ were able to start BOM-MA
74 QF45 : I was just wondering if anyone had any info re loads in and out of CHC since the Earthquake that hit us here. I just read an article in today's Press,
75 koruman : Mariner, it is not for an airline to determine whether its clientele's motivation for its loyalty is worthy or not. It's job is just to determine whet
76 mariner : If there is a quid to be made, then it is clearly between the UK and India. I am quite surprised that you would dump on Rico and yet suggest Air NZ c
77 alangirvan : So Air New Zealand is the preferred carrier for members of the BNP? They would hope the current Governor General is not on board. Why would we want vi
78 koruman : This is all getting a bit silly, isn't it? I am not advocating the airline advertising itself as being of a certain ethnic background. I am saying tha
79 mariner : There, at least, we agree. mariner
80 aerorobnz : premium economy on the 772 is now the same inky blue as will be used on the new 773 C cabin
81 zkojh : word is that the 1st 77W is in the paint shop at Boeing and has been spotted with a ''WHITE TAIL'' anyone comfirm this??
82 Post contains links aerorobnz : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2010/10/paine-field-october-13.html Looks like the white 777 is a 77L VP- registered.... As far as I'm aware it won't be out
83 PA515 : There could be some confusion if it was the vertical stabiliser that appeared white rather than the whole tail fin. The stabilisers used to be fully
84 NZdsgnr : Sorry i am confuse... I thought the C seat was more white than blue? Any photos?
85 aerorobnz : The leather is white. The blankets/carpets etc are an inky blue colour.. That colour is the colour of the seat covers until they all get refitted wit
86 NZdsgnr : I'm with you now, thanks for the clarification
87 Post contains links NZ5 : The first 77W for NZ is almost on the flight line. According to the website linked below, it's due to come out after the next BA 77W which is next due
88 Post contains links 777ER : WLG is applying for resource consent to extend its arrivals curfew from 12.30am to 2.30am over 7 days during the WRC for an extra 34 flights to land h
89 Post contains images PA515 : Thanks for the website details. G-STBC was unpainted on the flight line on Friday, so ZK-OKM should be within days. Also, where I refer to 'horizonta
90 Post contains links NZ5 : Also something to note regarding the new 77W - I'd imagine this has been discussed to death but I'd say it's fairly certain that it will be painted wi
91 NZ107 : Any reason behind the 4 rego place gap between the last 772 and the first 77W?
92 kiwiandrew : I think that it has been mentioned before that NZ reserved 4 regos in case they decide to get additional -200ERs ( or maybe some LRs to try to make K
93 PA515 : NZ1 mentioned some time back that ZK-OKI to ZK-OKL have been reserved for possible additional 77E's. That's why I was looking at the SQ 77E's. PA515
94 DavidByrne : I noted in the interesting production list for the 777 series that SQ's 777-200ERs use the Trent 892, the same as NZ's.
95 DavidByrne : Given NZ's apparent antipathy to operating long-haul international routes (aside from AKL-LAX-LHR-HKG-AKL) in competition with other carriers, AKL-YV
96 aerokiwi : What an odd thing to twit. What does it mean, exactly? I'm not sure that it does. I just had an email from Air NZ's UK website with discount offers o
97 PA515 : The SQ aircraft are the first RR Trent 77E's on the market, and probably the only ones available in the near future. PA515
98 Post contains links PA515 : Koruman, I found this while looking for something else. I think you'll like it. www.plane-mad.com/forums/manchester/man3397-summer-into-winter.html po
99 eta unknown : "Dubya" has been out of office since 2009. I think you just outdid your HNL gate immigration transit area comment. People are loyal to whoever has th
100 koruman : Funnily enough, I spent part of my childhood living in Cheshire, and my Dad was pally with the Air NZ rep at the Manchester office - that would be ar
101 v2fix : MAN-LAX-AKL would be ultra-conservative MAN-(SFO/YVR)-AKL would be neutral (as we know SFO/YVR is established but MAN-SFO is not covered out of MAN at
102 v2fix : And there are 8 77Ws going since JL cancelled the remainder of a previous order. Don't know if the engine type is same as NZ, but still.....
103 NZ5 : If they're 77Ws then they will be the same engine as Boeing only offer the GE-90-115B on the 77W. Personally I think NZ should exercise their options
104 DavidByrne : If MAN is indeed a "starter", then I think it's worth noting that we don't know whether rights exist for a 4x weekly MAN-HKG service. As McIlree has
105 koruman : I'm quite surprised by the lack of response to post 58 We appear to have the first tangible signs that Air NZ is within a year of a new long-haul rout
106 DavidByrne : I absolutely acknowledge that - it's a three-day round trip CHC-BNE-HKG-MAN, compared with a one-day round trip LAX-MAN. However, you have to balance
107 PA515 : There won't be any redundant 77E's as the 77W's are replacing 744's. However the two 744's being retained beyond March 2012 could replace a 77E durin
108 Post contains links 777ER : Air New Zealand and Virgin Blue have offered to provide more flights and a commitment to increase capacity on trans-Tasman routes where their proposed
109 mainMAN : NZ is competing with multiple daily departures by BA, CX and VS on LHR - HKG (7 as far as I know). MAN - HKG wouldn't impact on NZ's LHR operation as
110 aerokiwi : So the lesson from this is - always oppose these proposals to start with, becasue the airlines will move in your favour. Those seem like relatively t
111 Post contains images zkojh : i'm all up for this MAN service when it start's give me a date and ill book. it will be good to have some proud airline up here. it was only a matter
112 mariner : But I assume that this can only ever be an intention, not carved in granite. I've no idea how an airline can absolutely guarantee those things will h
113 DavidByrne : I suspect they'll make the commitment, and if everything turns to custard and it would be absurd to honour it, they won't. I think they would take th
114 mariner : They have made the commitment. Personally, I think they'll tell the ACCC what they think the ACCC wants to hear and they will mean it at the time it
115 mariner : I meant to say that I think ASKL-SCL-LHR is a bobby dazzler of an idea, I'd love to see it. It couldn't be daily, of course, but I don't think it nee
116 Unclekoru : Given the state of the UK economy, I doubt MAN will be added in the foreseeable future.
117 aerorobnz : I agree - it's much more likely to be another US/Asia port and even more likely BOM & GRU right now...
118 zkojh : both of thoses routes have said to be with 787's! so is NZ getting some 787's next year dout it. I don't see it being another US port not yet, and as
119 xiaotung : PEK going daily? I thought NZ only had the rights to do 7 flights a week to China.
120 aerorobnz : The point is more that MAN is not really on the radar yet there are other options which are withiot even thinking of 787s...
121 Post contains images aerokiwi : Indeed. Which is why Iwas so sceptical of NZ/DJ "promising" not to cut capcity on Tasman routes in the first 3 years of their tie-up. Do such promise
122 david_itl : Which options are ahead of MAN, without forgetting that most of the UK''s major cities have higher demand to go to NZ then mainland European cities?
123 Post contains links mariner : You see it as a "ploy" - I don't. I don't believe it was ever the intention to shrink the combined operation, simply to rationalize it. What I think
124 Unclekoru : I agree. He's more enthusiast than analyst.
125 aerorobnz : Any flight which is a two stopper is down the list....it takes too much time money and effort to crew and provide aircraft for the returns they bring
126 PA515 : If Air NZ have reserved slots at MAN, then it's well and truly on the radar. They can change their mind about when if the UK economy will make it dif
127 aerokiwi : I do. Precisely because there is not a concrete obligation on either airline's part to actually go through with their promises of maintaining capacit
128 mariner : When this first came up I made a long post about how reduced capacity does not necessarily mean higher fares - simply fuller planes maybe flying at a
129 DavidByrne : I think that it's already been signalled that an option if the alliance doesn't go through is for DJ to quit the Tasman altogether. Now that's hardly
130 aerokiwi : So it should all be approved because that's an option? I suspect most airlines have all options on the table all of the time, including liquidation g
131 mariner : I don't think dropping domestic NZ had anything to do with the alliance. The point is only that they dropped a bunch of unprofitable routes. If, as m
132 DavidByrne : Thanks for so neatly encapsualting a feeling of unease that I've had for a long time over this - but couldn't quite put my finger on. If the ACCC use
133 sunrisevalley : Seems rather one sided in my view. Is there any independent organisation that could judge the proposal from what makes sense from an operators point
134 gemuser : Mariner is actually wrong. The ACCC is not a "consumer" authority (despite its name) it is an administrative review body, it's only concern is does t
135 Post contains links mariner : I go by the ACCC site: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/142 The ACCC promotes competition and fair trade in the market place to bene
136 Post contains links kiwiandrew : I can just picture a certain Australian based member choking on his beverage of choice when he reads this http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle
137 DavidByrne : Let's look at the practical concerns that the ACCC seems to have, using WLG-BNE as an example, because that's a sector on which DJ and NZ are the sole
138 Post contains links NZdsgnr : hahah had similar thoughts when i saw the article which is also available on stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...679/Rob-Fyfe-named-CEO-of-t
139 aerorobnz : No. That's the Airliners.net top 3... They're two separate things Pilots are based out of AKL.... Even with Lon based crew it requires additional air
140 NZCH : Hi all, I am just curious to know, Is the United States Airforce sending any C-5 Galaxy's down here to Christchurch this season for the Antarctic trip
141 gemuser : Which says it not just for consumers: "to benefit consumers, businesses and the community." my exact point, it [supposedly] looks after everyones int
142 mariner : In this particular case, the objections where all about benefits - or otherwise - to the consumer. In this case, he appeared to me, and still does, t
143 NZ1 : Almost all flights to the ice are flown using C-17 Globemasters these days. Occasionally at the end of the season we may get a C-5 to ferry equipment
144 NZCH : Thanks NZ1, Yea I realise that the C-17's do the majority of the flghts down to the ice and Hercs. Iv been doing the pre employment engineering train
145 777ER : If any CHC residents are interested, the grab a seat campervan is in CHC this weekend for the band together concert.
146 aerokiwi : I'd dispute that "most seem to agree" that the Tasman is unprofitable. this issue was raised back in the 2006 QF/NZ tie-up proposal. Do you measure t
147 zkojh : Air new zealand joint venture agreement ends for tbu/apw-lax services The Kingdom of Tonga has given notice that it wishes to terminate the joint vent
148 aerorobnz : is a trial to begin with anyway,,, Not if they want an alliance with DJ...??? It's more likely PER will go to daily or the aircraft will be used on a
149 mariner : Okay. But (a) generally - generally - airlines don't reduce service on profitable routes and so (b) why did WLG have a panic attack that they were go
150 NZ107 : And not with a 763!
151 koruman : How does dropping TBU-APW free up a 763? It still flies AKL-APW-LAX. And why doesn't the 763 have LAX on its IFE Destination Videos?
152 Post contains links and images NZdsgnr : First I heard of that one... Flight attendants 'in tears' after loud bang http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=1068226
153 PA515 : PER is already daily. May, Jun and Aug 2011 will be 6 days a week, but not for lack of aircraft. PA515
154 timb777 : A little off topic, but i'm sure someone here will know the answer: Regarding the 2 744's NZ are keeping, will they be RR RB211 or GE CF6 powered? (I
155 HLZCPH : Off topic is fine by me! The two remaining 744's will be GE powered. I think it is to be SUH and NBV? It was mentioned here a while back. As NBS has
156 sunrisevalley : It would be logical if the were GE powered since the engines can be handed down from ETOPS maintained 767's. I also believe the Roller's have a highe
157 DavidByrne : There has been so much rumour and speculation about NZ's future route plans, that I thought it might be useful to bring together what we do know, what
158 timb777 : Arrrrggh, I was hoping for them to be RR powered, do you know if the ones staying are owned or leased? I was under the impression that they would let
159 NZ2 : Are you for real - tell me what you are smoking it must be good! Fonterra and Sanfords are AKL based and McCains in NPE. Crew exchange in TIU, yeah r
160 timb777 : Yeah, it's very farfetched (as is most stuff on this forum), but that’s precisely what this forums for isn't it? Fresh ideas? and critical evaluati
161 Post contains links NZB : OKM is out in the sun. @ 2min 40 sec in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Mi4mZqlo8&feature=player_embedded
162 NZdsgnr : FYI for those in AKL and keen to check out the new Y and Y+ seats, they have a display in the Westfield Manukau by the foodcourt. Pretty amazing produ
163 zkojh : OMG fantastic, from what I could see of it, looks better without the ''Pacific wave'' on. another proud day in NZ history soon to happen..
164 NZ107 : Looking good! Can't wait to see it in person, can't wait to fly on it! I believe South Canterbury Finance also operated out of Timaru. It's quite har
165 777ER : it frees up a B763 because an A320 could operate the routes or if the demand is there then not operating the APW-LAX sectors means the aircraft is ho
166 Unclekoru : Understand that there will be no APW-LAX either, can anyone confirm?
167 PA515 : An overnighting WLG-TIU / TIU-WLG with the Q300 should come before any AKL-TIU / TIU-AKL flights. When the OAM-CHC J31 flights were announced it was
168 777ER : J31 is a 19 seater
169 NZ107 : Oh yeah, what's up with Air National's AOC? Have they been able to retain it?
170 Post contains links 777ER : Speaking of Air National, their BAe146 made history by being the first BAe charter flight across the Tasman earlier this month. Another Tasman trip is
171 777ER : Can anyone point me to where the proposed NZ/DJ alliance affects lounge entry and airpoints plans?
172 NZ1 : Correct. TBU and APW to LAX are also terminated. NZ1
173 PA515 : Yes, I know. What I meant was OAM-CHC was about 50% of 19 pax, while TIU-WLG was about 100% of 19 pax. PA515
174 timb777 : I agree that there is sufficient demand on the TIU-WLG morning and WLG-TIU and evening flights to warrant a Q300. I would say that these flights are
175 Post contains links PA515 : Interesting point. The common goal subverted by competing management. Possibly still happens. There was some talk a few threads back about all the Li
176 macilree : Are you sure that wasn't last year? I note that the web site does not specify.
177 Post contains links macilree : Start by having a look at pages 21 to 24 of this submission (40.2 MB .pdf) dated 11 October 2010 from the applicants after the ACCC's draft determina
178 macilree : Yes.
179 Mr AirNZ : Marginal at best. Loads in and out of Timaru have yet to bounce back to 2007/08 levels with the fourth former weekday flight not yet back in the sche
180 GlobalCabotage : When the 787's arrive in a few years, why not AKL-ORD-MAN? AKL-ORD has been mentioned on NZ and ORD-MAN is only on an AA 757.
181 NZ107 : You're comparing apples with oranges here. There's no way that EK's business to MAN can anyway translate to what happens in TIU. If nothing, at least
182 david_itl : The only thing wrong with that statement is that EK is taking a big hit on the cargo front - some people have said it's available capacity on EK17/EK
183 timb777 : Birmingham gets its own EK flight.... so i wouldn't exactly call that feed. I agree. There isn't demand for those midday flights. Validating my earli
184 Mr AirNZ : The fourth weekday flight was timed around late afternoon (4pm-5pm) which in most centres is filled with the business people who left on the first fl
185 timb777 : I see 4pm as a little early for a business return to Timaru, especially if you are connecting through the likes of NSN or elsewhere aster a days busi
186 Post contains links NZB : Another angle, still partially blocked. http://paineairport.com/kpae3231.htm
187 v2fix : Hmm, normally I think the 777 has a large tail, which seems oversized but in the NZ colours it's the reverse - the tail looks oddly small for just suc
188 kiwiandrew : It's a shame that they have decided not to keep the "Pacific Wave" , that long fuselage looks very bare without it .
189 zkojh : thats one white loooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg plane!!!! from the angel is the wording in blue or black? can't really make it out..
190 aerorobnz : I think it's that Indigo blue from the interiors featuring again.
191 777ER : Just going by what the web-site said Thanks. surprised theres nothing on NZ web-site There is far toooo much white on that aircraft. wouldn't mind se
192 zkojh : What has happened to LAX as NZ north American ''Hub'' ??? is this signs of them looking at ASIA for a hub?? now that APW and TBU are going and they ga
193 777ER : re-start NAN-LAX or RAR-LAX?
194 aerorobnz : I would suggest that they are diversifying their North American markets. It started with SFO/YVR, and hopefully might end up with some/all of IAH/ORD
195 777ER : Would that involve using the B789 in those markets and use the B77Ws else where or could the NZ sustain using the B77Ws on LAX, B772/B744 on SFO and
196 aerorobnz : I honestly don't know about 787s just yet...
197 777ER : So going by what your saying with NZ loosing focus on LAX as a hub and diversifying their North American markets into possible flights to IAH (codesh
198 zkojh : I can see a coupe of extra 772 added to the fleet to cover the gap till the 787's arrive, and you never know they might hit a route that makes lots of
199 777ER : If worse comes to worse with the B744 fleet then would restricting ticket sales to 300 or 313 seats be enough
200 Post contains links 777ER : New Zealand Aviation Thread #86 (by 777ER Oct 23 2010 in Civil Aviation)
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