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Cathay To Replace Long Haul Seating  
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 15963 times:

Amid criticism of its Y and J class products, CX is to replace both and add a Premium Economy service; the new product, which will enter service in December, but will take up to two years to replace across the fleet, follows criticism of the Economy product, which has a fixed back; although not mentioned in the attached article, the long haul Business Class has also been criticised.

The existing Y class seats on long haul will then be transferred to the short haul A330 and 777 fleets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...s-after-passengers-complaints.html

[Edited 2010-10-11 21:41:44]

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4880 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15871 times:

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

Well, the seats will have the desired effect - there will be plenty of personal space for the people who do travel on CX in Y, because it seems that a lot of people will fly with other airlines to avoid the uncomfortable seats.

To be perfectly honest, CX is never one of my first choice airlines - and there are other options we have in comparison to them on the routes they fly.


User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15699 times:

I flew CX in J in July SYD-HKG-BKK... I actually preferred the shorthaul seats to the narrow, hearingbone longhaul set-up. It was an award ticket and I decided I'd never pay money to sit in the herringbone/coffin.

I did have a question about CX's proposal to install air bags in the Y section due to the hard shell... wouldn't the bags make it difficult to escape the aircraft in the required timeframe?


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4880 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15659 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 2):
I did have a question about CX's proposal to install air bags in the Y section due to the hard shell...

But they will have deflated by that time I would think. However, doesn't this raise cost and complexity issues - and make it more sensible to have more standardised seats?

Look at some cars which have very elaborate airbag systems that sense one, if a person is sitting in the seat, and two, the weight of the person seated, and based on that, may inflate in various different stages (or levels of aggressiveness). Multiply that by a conservative 200 seats, and that's already a potential for drama.


User currently offlineAusA380 From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15636 times:

I wonder what the issue has been for their J product when DL and AC have the same and there doesn't appear to have been the same level of concern?

User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15582 times:

I actually really like the Y product. I am someone who tends not to recline my seat, so on most airlines I end up with less space for most of the flight because the person in front reclines their seat into my space. CX's seats eliminate that problem.

User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15549 times:

Quoting AusA380 (Reply 4):
I wonder what the issue has been for their J product when DL and AC have the same and there doesn't appear to have been the same level of concern?

I'm not 100% certain but I think the CX J class confines are narrower than AC/NZ/VS. I've never experienced those herringbone J class seats... after the CX experience I wouldn't want to.

The airbags- yes, they would be deflated, but could you imagine negotiating yourself around them to get to the aisle?


User currently offlinegweilo88 From Hong Kong, joined May 2009, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15467 times:

The

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 6):

Quoting AusA380 (Reply 4):
I wonder what the issue has been for their J product when DL and AC have the same and there doesn't appear to have been the same level of concern?

I'm not 100% certain but I think the CX J class confines are narrower than AC/NZ/VS. I've never experienced those herringbone J class seats... after the CX experience I wouldn't want to.

The airbags- yes, they would be deflated, but could you imagine negotiating yourself around them to get to the aisle?

I have flown in the NZ/VS and CX seats and there is a big difference between the NZ/VS seats and the CX seats. The NZ/VS seats are very comfortable, I prefer them over most standard flat bed business class seats. But after 10 minutes in the CX business class seat I was going nuts. It felt like I had less space than an economy class seat. I could hardly open a newspaper enough to read it. Luckily it was only a MNL-HKG flight. I wouldn't do that again if I had to pay for it.


User currently onlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15092 times:

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 5):
I actually really like the Y product. I am someone who tends not to recline my seat, so on most airlines I end up with less space for most of the flight because the person in front reclines their seat into my space. CX's seats eliminate that problem.

On an overnight 12 hour flight, most people prefer to recline and acept the intrusion from the seat in front



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15057 times:

I think CX are one of those airlines that cannot do anything right as everyone compares them to SQ and so what might be ok for other airlines is completely and profoundly unacceptable for CX. A lot of people love to slate them for coming up short against SQ, which I think is a bit unfair.

Mind you it sounds like they've not done themselves any favours of late!



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineal2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15043 times:

Finally! Those Y class seats are really awful. I've avoided CX ever since my first experience in one last year.

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14948 times:

The article mentiones that the seat manufacturer is working with CX to upgrade the cushions of the fixed back seats. Does this mean that the new seats will also have the fixed back, but with better cushions, or is the "cushion upgrade" for the same seats that will now be placed in the a330 fleet?


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4956 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14907 times:
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Quoting AusA380 (Reply 4):
I wonder what the issue has been for their J product when DL and AC have the same and there doesn't appear to have been the same level of concern?

IME, the "walls" on both sides of the CX J herringbone seat are higher than on DL or NZ or AC. This gives the passenger a more constricted feeling than on the other carriers.


User currently offlineLAX888 From Singapore, joined Oct 2010, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14651 times:

I like the CX business class seats. You have a lot of privacy (due to the high walls) and I slept very well on my 13h flight from MXP-HKG-MXP. I do however admit that this seat probably only works for people who are on the slim side as it is narrower than the traditional biz class seat. The annoying thing with the herringbone layout is that you can't really look out the window properly but for a flat bed product it is not half bad. After all it's C class and not F. From Europe to HK I think CX has the best biz class (seat, service, lounges etc.) without having to fly a big detour via SIN or the middle east.

User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2216 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14500 times:

I think CX should take this opportunity to bring their product back up to par with SQ.

A decade or so ago the two were fairly equally matched, it seems recently CX has let everything slip between their seats and lounges that aren't really up to par with SQ yet alone some other oneworld airlines.


User currently offline747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14492 times:

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 5):
I actually really like the Y product. I am someone who tends not to recline my seat, so on most airlines I end up with less space for most of the flight because the person in front reclines their seat into my space. CX's seats eliminate that problem.

I like it too in Y...mainly for the fact that i'm 2m tall, and its not so much someone infront reclining into my space....rather crushing my knees! These seats avoid that, plus the shell desing actually allows me to stretch my legs out further under the seat in front. While the seat itself is less comfortable then other airlines, the legroom and no fear of knee crushing is a big bonus!

The J class is typical of the herringbone layout, which im generally not a fan of on any airline as they tend to be narrow, though the seat itself is very comfortable for a lie flat seat.



Flown on:DHC8Q200,DHC8Q400,EMB145,E170,E190,A320,A332,A333,A343,A380,MD80,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2679 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14406 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 8):
On an overnight 12 hour flight, most people prefer to recline and acept the intrusion from the seat in front

I disagree. The worst thing that can happen for me is to have some inconsiderate idiot in front of me recline their seat all the way, so that the PTV is right in front of my face, restricting my use of the tray table for reading or for watching movies on my computer.

I've grown to quite like these new seats. I've flown long haul on them (HKG-YVR-HKG), and I've found them acceptably comfortable for Y class. I'm not one to sleep on planes, redeye or not, so perhaps my perception of the seat would be different from other people.

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 15):
I like it too in Y...mainly for the fact that i'm 2m tall, and its not so much someone infront reclining into my space....rather crushing my knees! These seats avoid that, plus the shell desing actually allows me to stretch my legs out further under the seat in front. While the seat itself is less comfortable then other airlines, the legroom and no fear of knee crushing is a big bonus!

  

I'm not 200cm tall, but I do appreciate the extra legroom that a fixed shell offers. If CX are to change their Y seats, I hope it remains a fixed shell with minor improvements to perhaps make it more comfortable. Perhaps an increase in seat pitch from 32in to 33in? If not fixed shell, then hopefully a very limited recline - 15-20 degrees ought to be enough.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13516 times:

I thought CX's seat design with the Steelcase Leap Office Chair-derived "live back" was a good idea for long/ultra-long-houl flights. And the fixed back is a much better idea than those seats that recline into your keecaps.

Didn't CX have a worldwide exclusive on their seat design via B/E Aerospace and Steelcase?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6365 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13477 times:

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 5):
I actually really like the Y product. I am someone who tends not to recline my seat, so on most airlines I end up with less space for most of the flight because the person in front reclines their seat into my space. CX's seats eliminate that problem.

Me too! Absolutely love the idea that the only person capable of taking away my personal space is me. On a 14 hour flight, that's very very important to me.


User currently offlineFlyLonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13125 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
I disagree. The worst thing that can happen for me is to have some inconsiderate idiot in front of me recline their seat all the way, so that the PTV is right in front of my face, restricting my use of the tray table for reading or for watching movies on my computer.

Im also not someone that generally sleeps on long haul flights ( I slept for the first time ever on a plane last month DXB-SYD) but i think that the vast majority of people like to try and get some rest on a long sector like that and arrive at least a little prepared to fight off the jet lag, perhaps inconsiderate idiots is a bit harsh?
Being 6' 2" if I don't have my seat reclined I can't get my legs under the seat in front, and as much as I don't like to inconvenience the person behind me, Im gonna recline so that im comfortable. Lets just hope im not sitting in front of you on my next flight  

I personally haven't tried the offering from CX although my father did seem to like it quite a lot. From those of you that have tried both, how do they compare to the Y offering on QF's 380? I have flown them a few times, and they are my personal favorite despite only being 31 inch pitch.



Flying for Pleasure
User currently onlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12766 times:

On a night flight, would it be fair to say that 2/3 of people are sleeping/dozing? I'm flying to SIN Friday night (my first A380 on SQ ), and there's no way I would spend the whole 12 hours awake, especially at the end of a whole day in the UK.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 11):
The article mentiones that the seat manufacturer is working with CX to upgrade the cushions of the fixed back seats. Does this mean that the new seats will also have the fixed back, but with better cushions, or is the "cushion upgrade" for the same seats that will now be placed in the a330 fleet?

Reading some reviews, it does seem that the new seats are very unpopular, "backbreaking, thin and hard, very hard, excruciating" are all recent comments!

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/cathay.htm



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2729 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12054 times:

Quoting LAX888 (Reply 13):
I like the CX business class seats. You have a lot of privacy (due to the high walls) and I slept very well on my 13h flight from MXP-HKG-MXP. I do however admit that this seat probably only works for people who are on the slim side as it is narrower than the traditional biz class seat. The annoying thing with the herringbone layout is that you can't really look out the window properly but for a flat bed product it is not half bad. After all it's C class and not F. From Europe to HK I think CX has the best biz class (seat, service, lounges etc.) without having to fly a big detour via SIN or the middle east.

I like CX J for the same reasons and pay with my own money on vacation several times a year. My priority is SLEEP. Otherwise I'd go premium economy on AF and eat and drink just as well. SQ in my opinion is over rated. Service is more than refilling my drink with a smile every 30 sec... And I'm not convinced about their new J.

I'll stick with CX and BA, plus QF if A380.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11780 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Reading some reviews, it does seem that the new seats are very unpopular, "backbreaking, thin and hard, very hard, excruciating" are all recent comments!

I have a hard time following the reviews on that site, because they tend to be negative. My own experiences are never as negative as mentioned there.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 18):
Absolutely love the idea that the only person capable of taking away my personal space is me. On a 14 hour flight, that's very very important to me.

I agree, but it would be nice if the seats are comfortable. I haven't tried them though, so I can't comment on the seats themselves. But I very much support the idea of the fixed shell seats.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6365 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11738 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 22):
but it would be nice if the seats are comfortable

While not the most comfortable seats in the world, I have certainly had worse in Y...Give me the hard shell Y seat on the 747-400 over the Y seat I had to endure on their A330 flying HKG-FCO last December!


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2460 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

I wonder if CX is the rumored Asian carrier that will be adopting the B/E Aerospace Diamond flat J seat, which is currently the CO BusinessFirst model.

This would allow for a denser J configuration, which could provide enough space to Premium Economy section with minimal loss of seats...


25 Post contains links United1 : I think I read on here a while ago that CX was looking at installing the "Cirrus" type seats. http://www.sicma.zodiacaerospace.com/en/product/100/[Ed
26 CODC10 : That would be ideal. As I've said before, this is the best business class seat on the market, IMO. Unfortunately not compatible with the 767...
27 kaitak : Wonder if they will upgrade their J Class to the extent that it will also replace F Class, at least on some routes, then have a three class service o
28 JAL : It's not often that big corporations would admit that they made a mistake, Bravo for Cathay!
29 ditzyboy : A number of airlines have airbags due to the seat design or due to new regulatory requirements in various countries regarding the distance of exit ro
30 CCA : They haven't admitted it and I don't think they will, it'll be marketed as a revamp or something to maintain their status bla bla.
31 eta unknown : +1 !!! I tried to read the Sydney Morning Herald and failed- impossible to spread the paper out. Maybe I should have opted for a downmarket tabloid l
32 qantas077 : what a crock of rubbish, the person in front has the right to recline as far as the seat goes! they pay just like you do,
33 zkpilot : I don't get it? I'm also tall like you and found these to be some of the worst seats ever simply because if you do the recline/roller thing your knee
34 hz747300 : I've been in HK four years, and I have flown the longhaul on the old product, and the new product. I have to say, when one is tired, it doesn't matter
35 skyhigh : I notice that the A330 and 772 short haul routes will remain the same hard shell seat; does anyone know what CX considers as short haul? Australia is
36 brenintw : Seems I'm rather in the minority here -- I quite like the CX business class seats. Pretty comfortable and I don't mind the high walls. I'm not a small
37 spacecadet : ANA uses the same type of seats on their new long-haul planes, it sounds like, and I am not a fan of them either. I'm 6'4" but I would rather have the
38 MarcoPoloWorld : Exactly - from day one, the 2007-2009 CX Y and J cabin "upgrades" were controversial. In Y, no recline and - perhaps worse - a seat so thin that not
39 ash185 : Would be great if they could leave the fixed shell back and have the entire seat cushion move backwards and forwards like a normal seat.
40 baw716 : I get the problem in J class, but I'm not understanding the issue in Y class. It is the fact that the seat slides forward? I would imagine, and correc
41 ash185 : People have been getting sore backs and necks from what i have been hearing. Something to do with the way the seat cushion tilts or slides and no low
42 brenintw : The bit you might be missing is how the seats in Y recline. They achieve it by sliding the seat bottom forward about two inches. This means that tall
43 Post contains images 747m8te : I didn't recline/slide down the seat, in the upright position there is no knee crushing...id much rather sit upright then recline, if it means my kne
44 Post contains images FlyLonghaul : Horrible I think would be the right word! Definitely the worst long haul seat I have ever experienced. Its made even worse when a 15 hour non-stop tu
45 flyinghippo : I flew CX JFK-HKG-JFK in Y, and I must say it's not that comfortable for a 16 hr flight. I'm 5'10 so the pitch is not an issue, even when I "recline".
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