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ORD-HKG, Who's Next?  
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7017 times:

Given the movement on LAX-PVG in the past few days (not much more than that), I would expect some movement on ORD-HKG soon.

Will AA take the plunge (finally)?
Will UA go daily double (with different aircraft, now that CO metal is available)?
Will CX go before AA?
Wild card: BA ORD-HKG-...-LHR-ORD round the world (probaly less than 0.0001% happening, but why not throw it into the mix)?

I can see AA or CX entering the market, but not both. I can also see UA going daily double, but not on 744 aircraft.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinehkg212 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

About a year ago AA's sales office in Hong Kong got more active, sending regular newsletters to AAdvantage members living in HK and even organizing a "private" screening of Up in the Air for Exec Plat members. The early newsletters used to list al the AA code-share flights out of Hong Kong, with connections in NRT or PVG.

At the time I thought it looked like early groundwork for a launch of ORD-HKG, but maybe it was just my wishful thinking...


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

CX already flies to ORD, with B744F, hope to upgrade to B747-8F next year

User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Quoting Lutfi (Reply 2):
CX already flies to ORD, with B744F, hope to upgrade to B747-8F next year

No they don't. They only fly cargo to ORD.


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1664 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 3):
CX already flies to ORD, with B744F, hope to upgrade to B747-8F next year
Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 3):
No they don't. They only fly cargo to ORD

Hence the F, at the end of 744.  



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1664 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

I seem to remember hearing something earlier in the year about CX starting HKG-ORD, and it was going to depart ORD from Concourse L or something along those lines.


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 797 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

Yes ORD is on the cards for CX, I think early next year, probably in line with receiving their next 77Ws, if you put the delivery dates for them here you may be able to see when it's feasible / likely?


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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5827 times:
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Quoting Lutfi (Reply 2):
CX already flies to ORD, with B744F, hope to upgrade to B747-8F next year

Will Cathay be offering a few F or J class seats on their 747-8F ?


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

maybe UA/CO should convert daily 744 to double daily 77E, so they can up the frequency for business travelers while managing capacity

even more preferably is 3x daily with mix of 787 and 77E, but once you reach 3x on such a ULH flight, then up-gauging is probably better than slot wasting.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
so they can up the frequency for business travelers while managing capacity

That's still a pretty significant capacity jump, though.



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User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

I could see AA doing it assuming this ATI JV goes through with JAL. Although would there be some issue with the pilots. I have heard the union has to agree on any new ULH routes.

User currently offlinessides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 10):
I have heard the union has to agree on any new ULH routes.

Which is probably why CX metal is more likely.

I'd prefer CX to fly DFW-HKG, but I know that's a pipe dream at this point.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4385 times:
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Quoting ssides (Reply 11):
I'd prefer CX to fly DFW-HKG, but I know that's a pipe dream at this point.

At the risk of going OT and incurring the wrath of the mods .... If SQ can fly SIN-IAH ( admittedly not non-stop) and make it work I don't see why CX couldn't do the same with a flight from one of the worlds great business centres ( HKG ) to the most important hub of one of their allies ( DFW ) . ... although I would definitely expect to see pax services to ORD before DFW .

[Edited 2010-10-13 13:02:25]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinessides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
If SQ can fly SIN-IAH ( admittedly not non-stop) and make it work I don't see why CX couldn't do the same with a flight from one of the worlds great business centres ( HKG ) to the most important hub of one of their allies ( DFW )

No, I think DFW-HKG could be feasible, I just don't expect it to occur before ORD-HKG. I guess perhaps if AA/CX view UA as having a stranglehold at ORD, DFW would be a possibility.

Still, comparing the markets at IAH to DFW is really apples and oranges. With the oil & gas industry where it is today, O&D traffic to and from Houston is really commanding a premium in a way that DFW can't match. SQ will no doubt improve its standing at IAH due to strong Star Alliance ties, but one just has to look at QR and EK at IAH to understand how lucrative a market it is for service to the Middle and Far East.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineORDFan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 5):
I seem to remember hearing something earlier in the year about CX starting HKG-ORD, and it was going to depart ORD from Concourse L or something along those lines.
Quoting CCA (Reply 6):
Yes ORD is on the cards for CX, I think early next year, probably in line with receiving their next 77Ws, if you put the delivery dates for them here you may be able to see when it's feasible / likely?

I hope you guys are right; I have been wondering for years, with all the ORD-Transpac flights, why CX has not been at ORD sooner, certainly there's room for (better) foreign product vs. UA/AA offerings, just ask JL, NH, KE, and OZ. Hope this happens soon, too.


User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 4):
nce the F, at the end of 744.

Ah yes, that would explain it.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7322 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

Quoting ssides (Reply 13):
Still, comparing the markets at IAH to DFW is really apples and oranges. With the oil & gas industry where it is today, O&D traffic to and from Houston is really commanding a premium in a way that DFW can't match. SQ will no doubt improve its standing at IAH due to strong Star Alliance ties, but one just has to look at QR and EK at IAH to understand how lucrative a market it is for service to the Middle and Far East.

SQ's IAH flight has nothing to do with the Star Alliance and everything to do with oil. Its not the amount of passengers because that isnt all that much higher from Houston vs. Dallas, its the yields they get per passenger which is much greater in Houston to Russia and Singapore. Most of the oil traffic from Houston to Asia is to far Southeast Asia (Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia), not really northern Asia (like Japan, Korea, or China). Not to mention Houston's strongest Asian VFR ties are to Vietnam.

DFW's biggest curse and blessing is that its economy is virutally the opposite of Houston's. DFW has a very diverse of economy. It is a jack of all trades, king of nothing economy. Houston's economy is not diverse, but Houston is the worldwide king of energy and a huge center for medicine and shipping. But that is almost all of their ecnomy.

As a result, Houston can demand the specialized flights to these places that Dallas really cant. But at the end of the day DFW is more stable.



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User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
BA ORD-HKG-...-LHR-ORD round the world (probaly less than 0.0001% happening, but why not throw it into the mix)?

How would BA do ORD-HKG....or why, when they can't board pax in ORD??? If you're talking about the JV with AA, yes it's possible, but it still wouldn't really be a BA flight and if you want to go into that and/or codeshares then you can feasibly travel around the world at the drop of a hat anyhow!


User currently offlinessides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 16):
SQ's IAH flight has nothing to do with the Star Alliance and everything to do with oil.

Agreed 100%. But won't SQ's presence at IAH be further enhanced by the deeper Star ties that will result from the CO-UA merger? Or am I over-valuing that?



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

I have been surprised that UA has had such a strangle hold on Midwest-HKG for years. NW pulled their MSP-HKG fairly quickly and is only now, under DL restarting the route.

ORD is still the economic hub of the midwest. Between ORD,MSP and DTW there are about 9 daily flights to NRT, 3 to ICN, 2 to PVG and 1 or 2 to PEK but only 2 to HKG.

HKG is a major trade and financial hub for Asia and the southern port for Chinese exports.

CX and AA need to link up somewhere besides LAX and JFK. That is ORD. I would put my money on CX launching the route well before AA does. If the pilots put up a fuss about DFW-PVG? (7351 mi) then they would put up more fuss about ORD-HKG (7793 mi). (Note: ORD-PVG is 7057)



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2663 times:

ORD is a very tough market for most foreign carriers. Airlines like SU, LY, SQ and OS have come and gone, sometimes more than once. Others like NH, VS and PK have returned, but who knows how long they will stick it out this time around. SA announced an ORD-DKR-JNB service amid much fanfare, only to cut it before it even began due to such poor advanced bookings. For AF, ORD is one of its weakest North American stations. I could go on and on. Bottom line is that serving ORD-HKG against UA would be an uphill battle for CX, which would probably get stuck using T5 (superior facilities, but a lot less feed from AA, as many savvy connecting pax would prefer the seamless UA transfer). As for AA flying the route on its own metal, I have no doubt it's under consideration. It just may happen that the 777 can be put to even better use on a different route, say, DFW-ICN.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 797 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2631 times:

Rumour MAR '11 for CX.


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User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
maybe UA/CO should convert daily 744 to double daily 77E, so they can up the frequency for business travelers while managing capacity

UA used to run 10x weekly on 744's. I'm not sure why the 772's never made it to this route. However, the flights were not really timed to offer travelers more options (only 1 or 2 hours apart if I remember correctly in the AM) vs. the SQ flight HKG to SFO which offered a midnight departure.

CX would be a win for ORD and makes sense. I'd expect sucess just like ANA's NRT flight from ORD.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2545 times:
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Quoting fun2fly (Reply 22):
UA used to run 10x weekly on 744's. I'm not sure why the 772's never made it to this route

The ORD to HKG route is beyond the range of UA's 777-200ER with PW 4090 engines.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7322 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 23):
The ORD to HKG route is beyond the range of UA's 777-200ER with PW 4090 engines.

It cant be. UA flew a 2nd ORD-HKG frequency with 777 a few years back.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 yeogeo : No sir- the ORD-HKG route has always been 744, even the second non-daily flight. United has no other option currently but the 747 for those ULH fligh
26 UAL777UK : I cannot see why UA have not been flying double daily HKG out of ORD, surely there is the deman. Perhaps now with CO out of EWR that demand tapers a b
27 fun2fly : That's the real question. UA has SFO, ORD, EWR, NRT, SIN, to HKG. A good amount of seats and frequency. I'd bet IAH before the second ORD. I'd bet so
28 DFWEagle : Does UA still fly NRT-HKG? I though that ended some time ago.
29 ORDFan : First off, no one is saying ORD isn't competitive; it's one of the busiest airports in the world, and its a hub for two majors, so of course its goin
30 daron4000 : Wrong. UA 895 has always been a 747 but the second daily flight reverted to a 777 for about 6 months pretty soon before it was cut with the reintrodu
31 LAXdude1023 : Yep. I had a friend who used to take it because he liked the later arrival time into ORD.
32 ORDnHKG : The second 3 times a week UA 828/829 start off with a 744, then moved to 777. When that second flight was cut, UA used that 777 to do second 3 times
33 GlobalCabotage : UA did fly a T7 on the 3x weekly flight.
34 Viscount724 : Are you sure the UK-HKG bilateral doesn't grant BA 5th freedom rights beyond HKG? The US-EU open skies agreement certainly does so the only thing tha
35 Post contains images yeogeo : Well, obviously I've been exposed in having incomplete knowledge on the UA's ORD-HKG route history! Thanks one and all for filling me in (& serve
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