enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7831 times:
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.
How to read:
Flights are daily except as noted "/wk" which means per week.
ABE-MDT 2>10/WK means a reduction from 2 daily flights to 10 flights per week which is about 1.5 flights
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route
9K
STL-TBN 0>4 DEC-
AA
DFW-FSD 1>2 DEC-
DTW-ORD 8>7 APR-
IAD-SJU 1>0 APR-
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7594 times:
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7596 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1): No doubt a response to AA announcing they would open DFW-QRO/VER.
Of course they have yet to put it in the schedule.
BTW, did you see that UA announced CUN-AUS/SAT/RDU yesterday on top of the recently announced DL service? Ua would seem to be in a weak position in RDU, but UA/CO might be stronger on the TX stuff. I guess it's an attempt to defend the IAH-CUN connect markets? ...and RDU is a shot across the bow.
RJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7345 times:
9K is going to have a near impossible feat of hauling mililtary duffle bags on the TBN-STL route..Good luck with that!
MNMncrcnwjr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 308 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7058 times:
Quoting RJNUT (Reply 4): 9K is going to have a near impossible feat of hauling mililtary duffle bags on the TBN-STL route..Good luck with that!
If last Friday's three late afternoon and early evening DL ATL-STL flights (MD88's) were any indication ... 25-35 Active Military on each of those flights (was on stand by for the first two... ya I know)
BTW they boarded after strollers and wheelchairs .. Before FC , to applause in the gate area on all three flights AND on board as the capt made them welcome (at least on the 7pm flight)
sw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
I am always, always waiting for that time when this nonstop rolls around...thank gosh it's here!
Quoting MNMncrcnwjr (Reply 6): BTW they boarded after strollers and wheelchairs .. Before FC , to applause in the gate area on all three flights AND on board as the capt made them welcome (at least on the 7pm flight)
Sounds like almost every AA flight I have been on...
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7003 times:
Interesting. This route just started in September.
But for SNA slot usage one needs atleast 5x weekly, I'm not sure what they are going to do with other 2 days?
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
WWTRAVELER99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6597 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): Interesting. This route just started in September.
But for SNA slot usage one needs atleast 5x weekly, I'm not sure what they are going to do with other 2 days?
The SNA slots can be used however they like. The slot is given based on a all flights operating 7 days a week. It does not require the carrier to operate 7 days a week.
Super80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1637 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6542 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1): No doubt a response to AA announcing they would open DFW-QRO/VER.
Did I miss something here?
Right now there is an AA MD-80 flying over my house.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6485 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): Interesting. This route just started in September.
But for SNA slot usage one needs atleast 5x weekly, I'm not sure what they are going to do with other 2 days?
Quoting WWTRAVELER99 (Reply 9): The SNA slots can be used however they like. The slot is given based on a all flights operating 7 days a week. It does not require the carrier to operate 7 days a week.
I don't know the rules there, but I think the change happens about a week into January and ends at President's Day or so, thus over the course of each month it may average to 5/wk.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6405 times:
Quoting WWTRAVELER99 (Reply 9): The SNA slots can be used however they like. The slot is given based on a all flights operating 7 days a week. It does not require the carrier to operate 7 days a week.
WW
Incorrect
There are defined minimum slot allocation usage levels. Per SNA operating rules and regulations:
Quote: MINIMUM MONTHLY, QUARTERLY, AND PLAN YEAR OPERATIONS LEVELS – AIR CARRIERS
No Qualified Air Carrier shall conduct its operations in a manner which causes the person to
operate less than the following percentages of its calendar month, quarter, and Plan Year prorata
proportion of: (i) its Regular ADD and any supplemental Authorized Departure allocation; or (ii) its
Allocated Seat Capacity and any supplemental Seat Capacity allocation(s) for any Plan Year (calculated by reference to the number of days in each relevant calendar quarter):
DURING ANY - MINIMUM PERCENTAGE
Calendar Month: 50%
Calendar Quarter: 70%
Plan Year: 90%
The whole idea is to ensure an airline is not allocated daily slots but barely makes use of them.
Hence why previously airlines have only scheduled down to as low as 5x weekly to ensure they can still meet the 70% quarterly threshold.
[Edited 2010-10-13 11:04:07]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6191 times:
Man, DL really doesn't know what to do with this SNA slot! First CVG, then DTW, then JFK. If DTW flopped I figured JFK would be a long shot, and looks like that was the case. I wonder if they could use it for another ATL/MSP/SLC, or just give it up completely. CO owns the OC-NYC market, that's for sure.
They finally came to their senses and re-added this one! But once weekly, for just Feb and March? It was flown daily all season long for the last several years. Pathetic IMO.
WN doesn't fly this one anymore. They turned IAD into a "boutique" station served only from MDW and DEN (IAD-MCO/TPA/LAS were dropped when they added DEN) and seemed to have shifted their focus to growing at BWI and getting into DCA. I'd say FL has more or less done the same. In fact, all of the LCCs (with the possible exception of VX, which has yet to make a profit) have struggled immensely out of IAD. B6 at one point had a full-fledged focus city at IAD, but now it's a degenerating spoke...
I never knew NK was so big on this one! No wonder AA slashed frequencies and UA dropped it altogether. Will be interesting to see how UA intends to compete against this when they re-enter the market..
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5622 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): Hence why previously airlines have only scheduled down to as low as 5x weekly to ensure they can still meet the 70% quarterly threshold.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14): Looks like that leaves UA as the sole airline on the route. I wonder if B6 will give it another go, or if UA will upgauge/increase frequency?
So my theory about the partial month reduction is probably right.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14): First CVG, then DTW, then JFK. If DTW flopped I figured JFK would be a long shot, and looks like that was the case.
Maybe they should just park the slot in SNA-LAS for the Winter or ditch it completely.
WWTRAVELER99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5536 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): The whole idea is to ensure an airline is not allocated daily slots but barely makes use of them.
Hence why previously airlines have only scheduled down to as low as 5x weekly to ensure they can still meet the 70% quarterly threshold.
Yes. But if DL has 10 slot allocated per day that is 300 flights a month. Now say one of those slots is operated on less than daily, like the JFK flight. This flight that operates 3 days a week reduces that 300 to 282/284 (depending on what days of the week). Quite a bit of room to operate even fewer flight before getting below any of the thresholds.
I do not believe DL was awarded a new "slot" to operate this flight. So this slot was created by reduced flights on the weekends and/or cutting and adding from the current schedule. I do not know the current schedule of DL flight from SNA, but if they have 1 fewer flight on Saturday and Sunday this would create 104 days worth of flights. Just this 1 flight would allow them to operate JFK for about 30 weeks.
CBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1506 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5448 times:
Well..with 9K taking over TBN, and once AE takes over JLN, I think that will be the end of ZK's long standing service in MCI. I can't imagine both ZK and 9K will get EAS for TBN, unless 9K is doing this at it's own risk? As for the bags...I honestly think that is a good question. I know regularly on the 1900s, bags would be left behind due to weight restrictions and such. Often the bags left behind would equal more then the weight restriction on an empty 1900. 9K is going to have to do something to get those bags to STL. Will be interesting non the less!
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5127 times:
Quoting WWTRAVELER99 (Reply 17): Yes. But if DL has 10 slot allocated per day that is 300 flights a month. Now say one of those slots is operated on less than daily, like the JFK flight. This flight that operates 3 days a week reduces that 300 to 282/284 (depending on what days of the week). Quite a bit of room to operate even fewer flight before getting below any of the thresholds.
10 slots is 10 slots a day, not 300 a month that can be used as one desires. An airline cannot operate 5 flights one day, and 15 the other.
The goal of the airport is to maximize usage of the scarce slot holdings, and not allow airlines to hold and park them, as there are airlines waiting to get into SNA.
Quoting WWTRAVELER99 (Reply 17): I do not believe DL was awarded a new "slot" to operate this flight. So this slot was created by reduced flights on the weekends and/or cutting and adding from the current schedule.
The slot for the JFK flight was created by axing DTW-SNA service. 1 slot, 1 flight.
For the record the Delta 2010-2011 slot holdings is for 14 daily flights, with rights to RON 4 aircraft nightly.
[Edited 2010-10-13 14:07:48]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
mtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2120 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4656 times:
Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 18): Well..with 9K taking over TBN, and once AE takes over JLN, I think that will be the end of ZK's long standing service in MCI. I can't imagine both ZK and 9K will get EAS for TBN, unless 9K is doing this at it's own risk? As for the bags...I honestly think that is a good question. I know regularly on the 1900s, bags would be left behind due to weight restrictions and such. Often the bags left behind would equal more then the weight restriction on an empty 1900. 9K is going to have to do something to get those bags to STL. Will be interesting non the less!
Well that seemed to be a given. The reason 9K is going into TBN is they won the EAS bid that was up for bid.
MCI seemed destined to be dissolved when they were ending a few of the MCI-various KS locale trips IMO.
Perhaps 9K will only get the 'leisure' soldier lol, or higher ups. But it seems that it would just be easier for anyone going to Ft Leonard Wood to bus from STL.
FilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4477 times:
I don't know whether I should look at the axe of a daily flight as more of a good thing or bad thing.
DTW-MBS already has too many flights. I would want one more MBS-MSP daily flight on DL in exchange for the daily flight cut on MBS-DTW.
I can also see the DTW-MBS and DTW-LAN flight cut as bad because that is proof FNT is sucking passengers away from both LAN and MBS.
I detest MBS' motive "Build the new terminal and new flights will come!" Absolute garbage!!
I hope the flight cut wasn't the CR9 plane on mondays MBS-DTW.
FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4411 times:
Quoting RJNUT (Reply 4): 9K is going to have a near impossible feat of hauling mililtary duffle bags on the TBN-STL route..Good luck with that!
Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Maybe they'll have a pickup truck for the extras.
Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 20):
Perhaps 9K will only get the 'leisure' soldier lol, or higher ups. But it seems that it would just be easier for anyone going to Ft Leonard Wood to bus from STL.
This was questioned when 9K put up the bid and Cape Air said they would send more planes out there if needed for passengers AND/OR Bags.
“(The) Cape Air proposal offered a code share with American Airlines and interline e-ticketing and baggage agreements with all airlines flying out of St. Louis, comparable rates for airline service between St. Louis Lambert Airfield and Fort Leonard Wood, as well as their additional abilities to send more aircraft, if needed for passengers and/or baggage,” Battle writes in her letter of recommendation.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4055 times:
Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 18): unless 9K is doing this at it's own risk?
You are funny. 9K wouldn't change its underwear without a subsidy.
Quoting FilAmAirlines (Reply 21): I can also see the DTW-MBS and DTW-LAN flight cut as bad because that is proof FNT is sucking passengers away from both LAN and MBS.
Probably so. Fares are cheap in the AirTran cities.
Quoting FilAmAirlines (Reply 21): I detest MBS' motive "Build the new terminal and new flights will come!"
Yeah, that's brilliant. Once it's built they should focus on Tokyo service.
Quoting atrude777 (Reply 22): said they would send more planes out there if needed for passengers AND/OR Bags.
Yeah, they'll just do that with the stand-by aircraft and crew they will keep at the gate 24 hours per day awaiting a mission...not!
FilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3953 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 23): Probably so. Fares are cheap in the AirTran cities.
I highly doubt AirTran is a significant reason to the rise of FNT
.
FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
25 atrude777: Cape Air already has spare aircraft in STL standing by for any mission needed. For the exact thing you just described. Obv personal won't be waiting
26 MNMncrcnwjr: well... Last Friday all those ATL - STL Active duty ~75-100 were mustering outside the USO in Baggage claim just off the A concourse, i'm told they B
27 atrude777: I am not exactly sure where you're going with this? Most likely, if they were on Delta, they didn't book the continuation to TBN on ZK. Due to no agr
28 enilria: AirTran is almost the only reason Flint exists. They carry 1/3 of all the passengers and DL (who is #2) there would be much smaller there if it weren
29 MNMncrcnwjr: Just the fact that there is a large amount that are not flying .. and with all the active duty coming in in these situations they could also use a mi
30 PSU.DTW.SCE: Exactly. FL is one of the main reasons why FNT has thrived over other mid-Michigan airport (MBS & LAN), also the proximity to a larger population
31 atrude777: But they DO have crew, STL is a base for Cape Air, and Cape Air also has "bases" for the crews in every EAS city as well. I really don't understand w
32 enilria: I said "they'd have to call them out". That means there is a crew base. So we agree, I'm just saying it's not practical in the real world. It just sm
33 RJNUT: I have 1st hand experience working at TBN ..When i worked for Scheduled Skyways years ago in SGF, i would sometimes drive up to TBN to help fill in f
34 enilria: Seems like nobody ever keeps an EAS market for very long...except ZK in some of their WY backyard markets.
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