Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL 788 Order - Convert To 772LR And Add On 789?  
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15931 times:

I was wondering, we haven't heard anything about what DL plans on doing with the NW 787-8 orders in months. I am pretty sure it is not a matter of if, but when will DL announce their decision.

It has been hinted by Richard Anderson in the past that Delta might switch the NW 787-8 orders to the 777-200LR. Also, perhaps at the same time, could we see DL add on a separate 787-9 order (with GEnx engines instead of the Trent 1000)?

While converting the existing NW 787-8 orders to GEnx engines might result in some penalty, there is nothing RR can do about DL converting the NW 787-8 orders to the 777-200LR (where the GE90-110B is the exclusive engine) and adding on a separate 787-9 order with GE engines. I am 99.9% confident that DL would prefer to have 787s with GE engines, as tests have shown that the GEnx is the superior 787 engine, and the fact that DL is in love with their GE90-110B engines on their 772LR fleet.

Does anyone have their own thoughts?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15884 times:

Converting to the 772LR wouldn't surprise me since they really seem to like that aircraft and may even be able to get them sooner than the 787. Moving to the 787-9 seems to be a popular trend but the 787-8 seems to be a better option for 763 replacement on many routes than the 787-9 so I don't think they would convert them all to the 787-9.

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15804 times:

DL would probably only convert a small portion of those to 789

there are quite a few eastern Europe / South America / Asian routes in their books that are long-n-thin, can be use the lower trip costs of the 788

esp now that DL is finally attempting to bypass NRT and create US-Asia nonstops, the 788 will definitely be a great asset. It's like wasting the 77W on JFK-LHR when the 773 non-ER already have more than sufficient lift and range (and probably lower landing costs in airports that charge by rated MTOW)


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15732 times:

Quoting dl767captain (Reply 1):
Moving to the 787-9 seems to be a popular trend but the 787-8 seems to be a better option for 763 replacement on many routes than the 787-9 so I don't think they would convert them all to the 787-9.

I still think the 789 would still be a better option, as it would offer a lower CASM.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 2):
DL would probably only convert a small portion of those to 789

there are quite a few eastern Europe / South America / Asian routes in their books that are long-n-thin, can be use the lower trip costs of the 788

esp now that DL is finally attempting to bypass NRT and create US-Asia nonstops, the 788 will definitely be a great asset. It's like wasting the 77W on JFK-LHR when the 773 non-ER already have more than sufficient lift and range (and probably lower landing costs in airports that charge by rated MTOW)

Actually, I am pretty sure that DL wishes they had some more 764ERs for European and South American routes due to the 764ER's CASM advantage over the 763ER. The 789 carries more passengers yet has the same fuselage width than the 788. However, I don't expect DL to buy more 764ERs as the 787 is on the horizon.

[Edited 2010-10-14 13:28:49]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15567 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
Actually, I am pretty sure that DL wishes they had some more 764ERs for European and South American routes due to the 764ER's CASM advantage over the 763ER.




Given your handle, I knew that was coming. I would bet that Delta would wish even more for A332s is they were in a wishing mode for aircraft already in their fleet, since the A332 has just the advantage over the 764ER in just about every category. Perhaps even the A333 would also be on the wish list.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5448 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15406 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
Quoting dl767captain (Reply 1):
Moving to the 787-9 seems to be a popular trend but the 787-8 seems to be a better option for 763 replacement on many routes than the 787-9 so I don't think they would convert them all to the 787-9.

I still think the 789 would still be a better option, as it would offer a lower CASM.

Not to be argumentative, but if that was the main point - CASM - then why would anyone buy the 788? To me, trip cost is just as important as CASM, particularly if you have routes that do not have high enough demand year-round to support the larger aircraft.

Having said that, perhaps there isn't a noticable trip-cost difference between the two frames, and perhaps the 788 will end up being a dog. Short of either of those two, though, I think that there will be an incredible interest in the smallest variant by a variety of carriers, as it is the smallest "new generation" widebody that they can move to to replace the vast 767 fleet.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15384 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
as tests have shown that the GEnx is the superior 787 engine,

You have any sources to back up this odd claim?


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15339 times:



Quoting bobnwa (Reply 4):



Given your handle, I knew that was coming. I would bet that Delta would wish even more for A332s is they were in a wishing mode for aircraft already in their fleet, since the A332 has just the advantage over the 764ER in just about every category. Perhaps even the A333 would also be on the wish list.

And the 787 will out perform all of them, and has a wonderful bonus; they don't have to sink an additional cent into them during a time when they are trying to cut debt rather than add to it.

They have all these orders and options for 787s (which most likely cost NW much less then than DL would pay now) that are now floating as Boeing has missed a significant chunk of the original delivery times. DL can basically decide when to take the charge that will come due on delivery or cancel the order with little to no penalty. Converting them to 77Ls would remove all of that nice flexibility. It seems to me if they want more 77Ls, ordering additional planes rather than converting 787s would make more sense.

Unless you are of the opinion that DL will never operate the type. Which seems seriously far fetched given their existing feet.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
I still think the 789 would still be a better option, as it would offer a lower CASM.

Lower CASM only matters if you fill the plane enough to offset the better trip costs of the 788.

Personally I think they are waiting for some hard numbers to make a decision by. Also, until Boeing actually starts hitting their delivery targets, DL can attempt to renegotiate for even better terms, as there is no question Boeing very, very seriously wants DL as a customer of the plane, as their eventual fleet needs will be rather large.

[Edited 2010-10-14 14:16:14]

User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 566 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15115 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 7):
And the 787 will out perform all of them, and has a wonderful bonus; they don't have to sink an additional cent into them during a time when they are trying to cut debt rather than add to it.

They have all these orders and options for 787s (which most likely cost NW much less then than DL would pay now) that are now floating as Boeing has missed a significant chunk of the original delivery times. DL can basically decide when to take the charge that will come due on delivery or cancel the order with little to no penalty. Converting them to 77Ls would remove all of that nice flexibility. It seems to me if they want more 77Ls, ordering additional planes rather than converting 787s would make more sense.

Delta is the world's largest 767 operator. It is highly unlikely the carrier would completely walk away from the 787.

Boeing did not meet the agreed contractual terms of delivery and aircraft performance so obviously some resolution to that will need to be (and is being) negotiated, and it could entail some very attractive acquisition terms on other types of aircraft. DL does need more 777-size and capability aircraft very badly, but I think the 77L was a much more compelling proposition to standalone DL than it is to consolidated DL/NW.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15119 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 4):
Given your handle, I knew that was coming. I would bet that Delta would wish even more for A332s is they were in a wishing mode for aircraft already in their fleet, since the A332 has just the advantage over the 764ER in just about every category. Perhaps even the A333 would also be on the wish list.

Sorry, but that is an A.net myth. The 764ER has a lower fuel burn on routes within its range, and would have a lower overall trip cost. I have yet to hear or see any statement from DL that they aren't happy with their 764ERs. As for the A333, consider the fact that some were parked last winter due to excess capacity, yet DL didn't park any 764ERs.

[Edited 2010-10-14 14:45:26]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15049 times:

As much as Delta seems to like the 764 and in view of the very nice price they're apt to get for purchasing it, would it pay them to buy the 764 now and wait to order the 788 until it's been in service for a while and proved it productivity and profitability?


Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 15028 times:

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 10):
As much as Delta seems to like the 764 and in view of the very nice price they're apt to get for purchasing it, would it pay them to buy the 764 now and wait to order the 788 until it's been in service for a while and proved it productivity and profitability?

Well, DL does still have some unexercised 764ER options, and perhaps Boeing can give DL a sweet deal on them. However, I don't see DL buying any more of them, nor do I see DL buying any more A330s.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14872 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
The 764ER has a lower fuel burn on routes within its range, and would have a lower overall trip cost. I have yet to hear or see any statement from DL that they aren't happy with their 764ERs.

The 764ER is about the best plane in that size range for flying to Europe from JFK (or EWR in the case of CO). Even the A330 is too much plane for many of the routes.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14802 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
I still think the 789 would still be a better option, as it would offer a lower CASM.

Is lower CASM worth having empty seats on routes that might not need the extra capacity of the 787-9?


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3915 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14716 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 7):
Personally I think they are waiting for some hard numbers to make a decision by. Also, until Boeing actually starts hitting their delivery targets, DL can attempt to renegotiate for even better terms

I think the 787 will see a home at DL, but perhaps not in the numbers that might be expected. On one hand NW saw a clear role for the 787 over the Pacific, if that role still exists then I'm sure thats where the aircraft will be placed. Of late DL seems to be following the old NW strategy of buying good, second hand aircraft and flying them until they have no more to give. There are 747s out there right now, which may suit DL, but in the coming years there will be many A330s and 767s which DL may look favorably on. I still see a place for the 787 at DL, but perhaps not in huge numbers until towards the end of the decade and certainly not until DL knows exactly what the 787 is capable of. DL wont want another MD-11 scenario.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineQFA787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14560 times:

There is an interview in this month's "Airline Business" with DL's Richard Anderson. The 787 is brought up and Anderson is quoted as saying" I think Boeing has actually done a pretty remarkable job on the 787. When you look at what the airplane was originally designed to do, it is a real step change". That all sounds pretty positive, however, he also says that DL have 167 transoceanic aircraft, 50 of which can operate for 12hrs or more. Combined with their $1bn investment to overhaul the WB fleet's interior, Anderson says: "we're making the right investments. We have the right fleet."
Sounds a bit each way to me and more 777s wouldn't surprise at all. I guess it's just a matter of when DL want 787s. Like AA, I believe DL think the 789 really hits the "sweetspot" for them. Don't think DL will be rushing to the 787 order table but they will get there.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5448 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14513 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
I still think the 789 would still be a better option, as it would offer a lower CASM.
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
The 764ER has a lower fuel burn on routes within its range, and would have a lower overall trip cost.

So is lower CASM more important, or is lower trip cost more important?

The A330 would seem to offer greater cargo capabilities, though I am open to correction on that. Nonetheless, I think the reality is that there are a variety of factors that play into any decision a carrier makes, and it is not clear to me that the -9 is the logical choice for many carriers who wish to replace somewhat smaller 763's.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14256 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 16):
The A330 would seem to offer greater cargo capabilities, though I am open to correction on that. Nonetheless, I think the reality is that there are a variety of factors that play into any decision a carrier makes, and it is not clear to me that the -9 is the logical choice for many carriers who wish to replace somewhat smaller 763's.

I have not heard even once from Delta that cargo is an issue for their 764ER flights. The A332 is significantly heavier than the 764ER despite carrying a similar number of passengers. Therefore, the 764ER is better utilized from ATL/JFK to Western Europe, while the A332 is better utilized on longer routes requiring the range.

[Edited 2010-10-14 17:13:02]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5448 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14112 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):
I have not heard even once from Delta that cargo is an issue for their 764ER flights. The A332 is significantly heavier than the 764ER despite carrying a similar number of passengers. Therefore, the 764ER is better utilized from ATL/JFK to Western Europe, while the A332 is better utilized on longer routes requiring the range.

Well, I never said it was an "issue", as in, "concern". However, I am saying that that can play a part in deciding which aircraft is best. An A330 might make more sense on a short transatlantic trip than a 764 if they can fill the seats and carry more cargo. However, a 764 might make more sense than an A330 on a longer route where cargo demand is lower and perhaps they don't need quite as many seats.

Anyhow, I don't really care to get into which aircraft is better suited for which route, but rather am just trying to figure out exactly what you are saying is "best":

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
I still think the 789 would still be a better option, as it would offer a lower CASM.

So CASM is number one. The bigger the better, right?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
The 764ER has a lower fuel burn on routes within its range, and would have a lower overall trip cost.

So lower trip cost is number one. The lower the better, right?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):
The A332 is significantly heavier than the 764ER despite carrying a similar number of passengers.

But the A332 might have a higher trip cost but a lower CASM. Which is better? Answer: It depends.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
I have yet to hear or see any statement from DL that they aren't happy with their 764ERs.

I have yet to hear or see any statement from DL that they aren't happy with their A330's.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14001 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
But the A332 might have a higher trip cost but a lower CASM. Which is better? Answer: It depends.

However, I find it counterintuitive that the A332 would have a lower CASM, considering it is a shrink of a larger aircraft (the A333) vs. the 764ER which is a stretch of a smaller aircraft (the 763ER). Generally, stretches of smaller aircraft would naturally have lower CASMs than shrinks of larger aircraft. This is why DL rejected Boeings 777-100 proposal in favor of the 764ER. The 771 would have probably had more cargo capacity and possibly more range than the 764ER, however, its CASM would have been incredibly high.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5448 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13954 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
However, I find it counterintuitive that the A332 would have a lower CASM, considering it is a shrink of a larger aircraft (the A333) vs. the 764ER which is a stretch of a smaller aircraft (the 763ER).

Perhaps. However, it also depends on the seating arrangement. In the end, I'm going to let the order numbers speak for themselves. if the 764 had some sort of clear advantage over the A332, I would think there might be just a tad more 764's and just a tad less 332's flying the worlds skies.

Additionally, if CASM is king, then again an A333 would clearly have a CASM advantage over the 764, seating layouts being similarly designed.

I know I'm coming off argumentative, but I think you are drawing conclusions that maybe are contradictory or perhaps too black or white. But I appreciate the dialogue, and am open to learning a thing or two.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13885 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 20):
Perhaps. However, it also depends on the seating arrangement. In the end, I'm going to let the order numbers speak for themselves. if the 764 had some sort of clear advantage over the A332, I would think there might be just a tad more 764's and just a tad less 332's flying the worlds skies.

Yes, I understand that the A332 has the range and cargo advantage which is why it sold better.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 20):
Additionally, if CASM is king, then again an A333 would clearly have a CASM advantage over the 764, seating layouts being similarly designed.

Well, it surely has a CASM advantage over the 772A, which is its true competitor. The A333 weighs significantly less than a 772A while offering a similar passenger count.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
I have yet to hear or see any statement from DL that they aren't happy with their A330's.

Nor have I, however, there is no proof of DL having a preference of one over the other. Both the 764ER and A332 are important parts of DL's fleet.

In fact, why is DL giving priority to the 764ERs (second only to the 772ERs) for flat-bed installations in BusinessElite? DL hasn't even yet made an annoucement to install flat beds on the A330, so I assume it won't be until at least 2014.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12837 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
You have any sources to back up this odd claim?

How about the fact that they RR engine blew up on the test pad?



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12743 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Sorry, but that is an A.net myth. The 764ER has a lower fuel burn on routes within its range, and would have a lower overall trip cost.

Key being within its range. On the other hand, the A332 can fly farther and carry more cargo than can the 764. Regardless, lower fuel burn and overall trip costs clearly weren't a compelling enough factor for airlines to choose the 764 over the A332. The numbers speak for themselves, 45 764's sold vs 576 A332's sold.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
As for the A333, consider the fact that some were parked last winter due to excess capacity, yet DL didn't park any 764ERs.

And? Are you implying that DL is somehow unhappy with the A333 or somehow more happy with the 764 than the A333 because they parked a few during the slow months. You've repeatedly stated that you have never heard anything negative from DL regarding the 764, the same can be said for the A333. In fact, by all accounts, DL is quite happy with their A330 fleet.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12728 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
In fact, why is DL giving priority to the 764ERs (second only to the 772ERs) for flat-bed installations in BusinessElite?

Because many flights from JFK to higher yielding European destinations are on 764s probably. Plus, the fact that the A330s are younger probably has something to do with it.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 23):
Key being within its range.

And with a hub at JFK, and to some extent ATL, Delta has plenty such routes. As does CO. And the 764 works very well for both of them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Post contains links akelley728 : GEnx has met its fuel consumption targets, while the Trent 1000 has been struggling. http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...avweek-trent-1000-engines
26 OA412 : Perhaps because they are being used to LHR where the flat bed is needed. Also, perhaps because it's a smaller fleet that can be finished more quickly
27 PlanesNTrains : Well, this conversation has gone in a variety of directions, but let me just say that I am not trying to badmouth the 764, DL/CO's decision to buy it
28 BMI727 : Well, if CASM were all that mattered, everyone would have A380s.
29 PlanesNTrains : Exactly my point as well. -Dave
30 Delimit : And many on A.net would rejoice. : ) The 788 versus 789 discussion that goes on here alway seems to get hung up on this. There seems to be a meme on t
31 CHRISBA777ER : Some absolutely vintage cheerleading in this thread. Fact is, nobody knows what DL is going to do, and a thread on this same subject every month is a
32 Burkhard : So, maybe if DL wants to get rid of RR on 787, they buy a handful of other aircraft with Trents as compensation. Nobody suffers from having a dozen mo
33 AA777223 : Well then what exactly do you think DL will use to ultimately replace their massive 767 (and later) A330 fleets? I don't mean that argumentatively, b
34 FoxThree : Be careful with statements like that. I said roughly the same thing about the regular "why doesn't carrier X buy the A380" threads and got hung out t
35 DfwRevolution : No, the 789 is on par with the A333, A343, A359, and 772. The 788 is bigger than the 764ER and essentially equal to the A332 in size. If the 787-10 w
36 Post contains images CompensateMe : Delta's probably trying to decide on which PTV AVOD entertainment system to install first before making the decision on which aircraft to take delive
37 1337Delta764 : Obviously it would be the Panasonic eX2 with the Eco 9i Smart Monitors. There is one little flaw in your observations: The 744 fleet is getting prior
38 cokepopper : I wouldn't say priority, just that the much smaller fleet of 74's will be completed before the much larger 763 fleet. FWIU the first 763 is suppose t
39 Delimit : While most agree, there is a significant chunk of people (like myself) who absolutely hate angled flat and would much rather take a cradle (can't get
40 mayor : Could this have something to do with the fact that they needed the flat bed product on those particular routes? In all this argument, I seem to remem
41 goldenstate : Since a/c transactions have so many layers of complexities, unless you have seen the signed contracts, statements like these are entirely speculative
42 1337Delta764 : Well, if DL were to order more 767s (not saying it will happen), I would be pretty sure it would be for some more 764ERs.
43 bmacleod : I wouldn't bet all my money on it.... CEO Richard Anderson did say the new airline would order both Airbus and Boeing so I wouldn't be too surprised
44 mayor : Why would they have to? They've already got the firm orders and the options................they've probably been working with Boeing on a later deliv
45 goldenstate : I wouldn't rule out your scenario, but that's why I said "highly unlikely" and not "totally impossible." As for LOI, I wouldn't automatically assume
46 tristarcrazy : Well of course he said that, he'd be stupid to say DL was forever gonna buy Boeing or Airbus. I would think that Richard is not the sole decisonary (
47 par13del : One of the reason's why the A330 started out-selling the 767 was: Now when you consider the fact that DL is the largest operator of 767's and the Air
48 1337Delta764 : Everyone should keep in mind that DL isn't really in any rush to replace their 763ER fleet, considering that they will be getting Thompson Vantage fla
49 bobnwa : what tests would those be? If I an not mistaken didn't you bring it up originally?
50 rwy04lga : Isn't it the other way around?
51 BMI727 : And furthermore, that's the way it's been since the late 90s, whether he said so or not. The 764s work better on the shorter transatlantic routes (th
52 mayor : This is NOT my quote
53 goldenstate : Good insight, and it's certainly true that in an ideal world where you could snap your fingers and make instantaneous fleet changes, DL would benefit
54 1337Delta764 : DL would not benefit at all trading in their 764ERs for 777s. The 764ER does the job just fine for Europe. DL once even flew the 764ER on ATL-SVO, wi
55 bobnwa : But I think Delta is also MORE satisfied with its fleet of A332s and A333s and if they were to order more of either it would not be the 764s. I don't
56 1337Delta764 : Nope, that is an A.net myth. The fact that DL parked some A330s over the winter and did not park any 764ERs PROVES that DL prefers the 764ER.
57 alitalia744 : Sorry. Not necessarily correct. The winter parking was due to capacity and HMV requirements (postponements) more than a preference for either aircraf
58 DeltAirlines : Two different planes, two different missions. The extra capabilities of the A330-200 is not needed for many of the JFK/ATL-Europe routes vs. the 767-
59 bobnwa : PROVES it to who. Not apparantly to most others on this forum who do not hate or love any aircraft.
60 AirNZ : Tell me, how are you so 'confident' and 'pretty sure' of what (you only think) you know what DL want.......on exactly what basis do you 'know' this?
61 goldenstate : I would argue that the market pretty clearly decided that it makes the most sense to have a larger 777 program that encompasses high demand North Atl
62 BMI727 : Each additional seat in the 777 (30 of them, 3 in business and 27 coach) costs Delta an extra 2500 lbs. of empty weight. That depends entirely on wha
63 Delimit : This backing and forthing about 764s and A330s is rather silly when you remember this is a discussion about Delta, who has gone on record as saying, "
64 Post contains links SkyTeamTriStar : Notice what Richard says in the very first sentence. "......before turning to widebody replacements. Link: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ef-e
65 cslusarc : I believe that DL will come to realize that it will need new planes to launch new growth routes with stage lengths of 12 hours or more. DL will need
66 Delimit : I think pretty much everyone realizes "No new planes" is only a temporary thing. But once a couple years elapse the choices will be pretty obvious. T
67 Aesma : The engines have their own contract, so that's not true.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Midwest To Move And Add Flights In PHL posted Sat Mar 18 2006 20:08:16 by N917ME
Congrats To Boeing And GE On The 1 Year 773ER Anni posted Wed May 11 2005 18:30:52 by BoeingBus
Longhaul To Homebase And Further On? posted Sun Jan 2 2005 14:14:42 by OB1783P
JAL Upgrades To YVR And Downgrades On HKG? posted Wed Sep 29 2004 09:11:23 by Ktachiya
LH To PHX And IFE On Asiana/ JAL posted Thu Jan 29 2004 08:27:19 by Thestooges
Lgw To Washington And Chicago On Bm posted Sat Aug 18 2001 22:19:59 by Gatwickgunner
DL's Answer To 772LR Ferries Tatl? posted Thu Oct 8 2009 19:50:02 by CALPSAFltSkeds
DL Plans Daily Service To Both UIO And GYE posted Fri Aug 21 2009 04:55:10 by WorldTraveler
VN To Order 10 Extra A321 And Joins ST posted Mon Apr 13 2009 20:46:41 by VN777
DL: NW A330s And 747s On Domestic Routes? posted Mon Mar 9 2009 09:48:43 by Soxfan