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AC, AS, And DL @ PDX  
User currently offline787PDX From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 35 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

After years of reading, I've decided to splurge and contribute something to this great fourm...

I'll try not to make my posts too PDX-centric, but, what can I say, I love my airport...!

A couple questions for anyone that can help:

Is AC's newest PDX-Toronto flight year round? How is it performing?

HA and AS are in an advertising war in Portland...are AS's new PDX-Hawaii flights impacting HA? I'd hate to see one less widebody serving PDX.

Does DL use an A332 or a 763 on PDX-AMS?

What are future flights that we can see from PDX????

Thanks for reading!

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecoopdogyo From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Thread starter):

Does DL use an A332 or a 763 on PDX-AMS?

What are future flights that we can see from PDX????

They fly an A332. For the future of PDX I personally believe that AS will fill out Hawaii service. However since Alaska fleet is not going to be growing for at least another year it could be a while before we see any other mainline service.


User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 577 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Thread starter):
Is AC's newest PDX-Toronto flight year round?

Yes, it is year round.



Last Flight(s): YHZ-YUL-YYC-YVR-YYJ // YYJ-YYZ-YSJ-YHZ.....Next Flight(s):
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Thread starter):
I'll try not to make my posts too PDX-centric, but, what can I say, I love my airport...!

Don't hold back; PDX is a fantastic airport in the best city in the US!



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinelambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

I think you'll find that this board has a sizable contingent of posters from each respective city that welcome their own in. Portland is no different and has a number of spirited cheerleaders that almost rivals the size of the Raleigh-Durham contingent.

Kidding aside, welcome to the forum.

Quoting 787PDX (Thread starter):
What are future flights that we can see from PDX????

Because the port is so active in luring airlines to start new service, you never really know. Most airports follow a logical progression of adding new service through local demand generation, but the Port literally creates markets and sees if the local demand can grow into the market.

For instance, they offered LH significant incentives to start their FRA flights. Local demand grew into the market as the Port kept the route afloat through various tactics and turned it into a feasible market.

However, the Port also believed it could sustain a second daily European flight in addition to the LH flight. They offered DL incentives to start AMS and what happens? LH drops their flight, which was of course, entirely predictable since the market is too small to support two dailies to Europe.

So as you can see, Portland is a rare bird. It could be Paris, it could be some place in Mexico/Caribbean. To me, it seems like they are more interested in the headlines than they are in addressing fundamental domestic needs.


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4258 times:

Quoting coopdogyo (Reply 1):
They fly an A332.

Their other widebody is the 763 to Tokyo.

Quoting 787PDX (Thread starter):
HA and AS are in an advertising war in Portland...are AS's new PDX-Hawaii flights impacting HA? I'd hate to see one less widebody serving PDX.

Just in case....HA operates two daily 763's to Hawaii.


User currently offlineflyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

I too have wondered about HA vs AS in Portland. I live downtown, and work at PDX, and I notice everywhere "Hawaii" advertisements from both respective carriers.

I see it this way, and hopefully someone with more knowledge regarding actual traffic can educate me on this, but tourism was significantly down in Hawaii, and Hawaii lost service when Aloha and ATA went under. Now, it seems, Hawaiian has found new sources for revenue in routes which aren't to/from the mainland US in thier establishing, although small, Asia operations.

Is it immature to suggest that Portland, and even Seattle for that matter, can actually use both carriers (not to mention others who may be serving it out of SEA which I believe DL does) ?

HNL is a large population base, and I would imagine that a lot of the originating traffic in Hawaii, however little that may be to the mainland US, predominently flys HA which may be a strategic advantage in itself. Regarding AS however, I would like to think that they've contributed to traffic numbers to Hawaii out of PDX as opposed to have taken them from HA. If anything I could see AS impacting UA's PDX- Hawaii market by taking more of UA's SFO connecting PDX-Hawaii traffic. I suppose it was AS's devine intent all along to offer the secondary mainland- Hawaii market type model similar to what Aloha had accomplished in it's later years. None the less, i'd be interested to know if Hawaiian's loads have dropped any with Alaska's arrival into the market.

I non-rev to Hawaii a lot, and often jumpseat on HA, and even in the down season, the flights I've been on at least, are booked around 40 open seats- which of course fills up with a lot of NRSA pax (no surprise there!)

I'm glad this thread was started, I too have an interest!


User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

I offload the AC YYZ-PDX flight every night. The loads have dropped since the summer ended. We get anywhere from 30-50 bags per night. I don't see the passenger load ever though.

It looks like DL just leased gate D3 from the Port. They updated the boarding area with new carpet, paint and podium.


User currently offline787PDX From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Thanks for the replies...very helpful!

PDX is sooo hot and cold. After losing LH a year ago, it seemed PDX was headed toward that time where it retained its international status merely through its YVR flights. Finally, it seems that there are some airlines taking a genuine interest in PDX. I give all the credit to two carriers: DL & AS.

As mentioned in an earlier post, DL's CEO recently had positive things to say about it's two int'l flights (and even went too far as to mention a CDG flight)...although I love PDX, I'd rather keep PDX-AMS than split Euro traffic with CDG and threaten both flights. NRT is in a better position than I think most would have thought as well.

DL recently sunk money into sponsering the Oregon Ducks and they have done a good job getting the word out on the presence of both their AMS and NRT flights.

For a long time PDX was off the radar for AS. This seems to be changing, and I'm glad there seems to be a mild effort to cater to the PDX market with the addition of HNL and Kona. One carrier AS needs to capitalize on is the extremely weak AA product offered at PDX. If I were AS, I'd make AA work for their presence at PDX. Start DFW, AUS, Houston....

Thoughts?


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Reply 8):
For a long time PDX was off the radar for AS. This seems to be changing, and I'm glad there seems to be a mild effort to cater to the PDX market with the addition of HNL and Kona. One carrier AS needs to capitalize on is the extremely weak AA product offered at PDX. If I were AS, I'd make AA work for their presence at PDX. Start DFW, AUS, Houston....

I won't be as arrogant to say "it won't happen", but I will say I think that is highly unlikely - at least not a DFW or AUS flight. Right now a direct (stop in SJC) is possible to AUS and I don't think the PDX origination market is strong enough to support an AS flight to DFW. AA has plenty of support for DFW origination traffic, and I just don't see AS wanting to irk one of its major sources of revenue (AA codeshare).

IAH would be an interesting possibility, but I think more likely would be a PDX-ATL or PDX-MSP.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Reply 8):
One carrier AS needs to capitalize on is the extremely weak AA product offered at PDX. If I were AS, I'd make AA work for their presence at PDX. Start DFW, AUS, Houston....

Why bother? Don't they codeshare?



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3047 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 9):
I won't be as arrogant to say "it won't happen", but I will say I think that is highly unlikely - at least not a DFW or AUS flight. Right now a direct (stop in SJC) is possible to AUS and I don't think the PDX origination market is strong enough to support an AS flight to DFW. AA has plenty of support for DFW origination traffic, and I just don't see AS wanting to irk one of its major sources of revenue (AA codeshare).

IAH would be an interesting possibility, but I think more likely would be a PDX-ATL or PDX-MSP.

Wait, you think that AS shouldn't start PDX-DFW so as to not irk one of its major revenue sources but you think PDX-MSP and PDX-ATL are good ideas? Delta probably provides the same if not more revenue for AS than AA. I tend to think that DFW, MSP, and ATL are not at the top of the list as their partner serves them already. But AUS and IAH might be options. I gotta think that EWR/JFK are on the table.

Slightly off topic, but why does AS fly to EWR when their big partners are at JFK?



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2935 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 11):
Wait, you think that AS shouldn't start PDX-DFW so as to not irk one of its major revenue sources but you think PDX-MSP and PDX-ATL are good ideas? Delta probably provides the same if not more revenue for AS than AA. I tend to think that DFW, MSP, and ATL are not at the top of the list as their partner serves them already. But AUS and IAH might be options. I gotta think that EWR/JFK are on the table.

Yes I know that sounds contradictory, but I'd say the AS relationship with AA is less cemented than their relationship with DL. Additionally, It would seem that AS moves into AA routes after they abandon them (SJC-AUS, SEA-STL, PDX-ORD to name a few), while DL and AS seem to cooperate with each other - DL pulled a daily SEA-ATL when AS entered the market. Finally look at the recent addition of AE on the LAX-RNO route - directly competing with AS on their more established route. To me it seems that the AA relationship is much weaker and less cooperative than the relationship with DL.


User currently offlineMNMncrcnwjr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2889 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 11):
but why does AS fly to EWR when their big partners are at JFK?

AS 7 is code shared with AA from ewr @ ~6:30 pm



CV340/580DC3DC9super80MD88/90DC10717273747576777A319/20CRJ2/7/9F27AVROJET31CITAT5/7/XSAAB340YS11Dash8E135/45/75
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 12):
Yes I know that sounds contradictory, but I'd say the AS relationship with AA is less cemented than their relationship with DL. Additionally, It would seem that AS moves into AA routes after they abandon them (SJC-AUS, SEA-STL, PDX-ORD to name a few), while DL and AS seem to cooperate with each other - DL pulled a daily SEA-ATL when AS entered the market. Finally look at the recent addition of AE on the LAX-RNO route - directly competing with AS on their more established route. To me it seems that the AA relationship is much weaker and less cooperative than the relationship with DL

That makes sense. Just sounded weird.

Quoting MNMncrcnwjr (Reply 13):
AS 7 is code shared with AA from ewr @ ~6:30 pm

Yeah but AA offers nothing, I guess I would have thought that AS would get more feed should they fly from say JFK where the traffic from Europe and Africa could transfer. but I suppose it works for AS.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineMNMncrcnwjr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 14):
while DL and AS seem to cooperate with each other -

However DL had the lowest fare this evening on Orbitz for 11/23 from EWR to SEA via a connection by nearly $75 under next cheapest AS's non-stop AS even was listed as a code shared AA flight to ORD then to SEA.. so go figure how one will treat another in a bigamous relationship ...



CV340/580DC3DC9super80MD88/90DC10717273747576777A319/20CRJ2/7/9F27AVROJET31CITAT5/7/XSAAB340YS11Dash8E135/45/75
User currently offline787PDX From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

I will admit that it has always seemed odd to me that PDX can offer a flight to both AMS and NRT yet DTW is a no-go. I don't think there's any other market out there that can say that same: offer int'l flight to two continents yet can't retain a flight to a former merger airlines major hub? SEA must have at least 2x DTW.

One thing I can't figure out and no one has mentioned is why PDX-Cabo San Lucas & Puerta V ceased. Seems like a lot of money was going to be made here, yet AS axed them and no one seemed to notice.

Just curious.


User currently offlinebrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Reply 8):
One carrier AS needs to capitalize on is the extremely weak AA product offered at PDX. If I were AS, I'd make AA work for their presence at PDX. Start DFW, AUS, Houston....

AS does have one-stop AUS service, routing is PDX-SJC-AUS. AS also flies to AUS from SEA.

No reason to poke the beast at DFW.

Houston (IAH/HOU) is not an AA hub market, it's UA/WN respectively.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

Quoting 787PDX (Reply 16):
I will admit that it has always seemed odd to me that PDX can offer a flight to both AMS and NRT yet DTW is a no-go. I don't think there's any other market out there that can say that same: offer int'l flight to two continents yet can't retain a flight to a former merger airlines major hub? SEA must have at least 2x DTW.


DL's PDX - DTW seems to be somewhat seasonal; it's on and off. For October, it's overnight going east four times a week, and that's certainly not timed for any international connections. Seattle has three or four. Plus, DL is known for shifting around routes frequently.

As for international routes, it's somewhat a different traffic base. There's a lot of business and tourism traffic between the northwest and asia, particularly with tech and sports apparel companies in this area. With Amsterdam, maybe that's a reason there isn't much PDX - DTW service. Traffic can go directly to the AMS hub and onward, rather than the DTW hub. Plus, there are plenty of other options through other hubs to get within the U.S....for DL MSP and ATL. There's also a lot of freight on those international flights.

One thing to consider that has been mentioned in on PDX discussion, it has a high leisure portion of its general air traffic. So there ends up being a lot of seasonality.... i.e. frequency and some routes pick up in summer but drop off in winter.


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