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Ansett/ANZ/QF/SQ Part 2  
User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2373 times:

At the sugestion of a few of the other regulars who have posted over 200 items, we start part two of this "Soap Opera" (thanks Wirraway).

This will cut down on the loading time!!!.

And to add an element to the picture. Virgin Blue: A very brave man taking on the ACCC and Alan Fels (just after he got his gong). And Virgin is going to post some interim results next week - should make some very interesting reading.

I am hearing a little bit of scuttlebut about Virgin also changing their 737-700 delivery schedules - any one with an update?

An amazing that the "Freedom" in AUS seems to have died as well.


98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2148 times:

At the moment, this deal looks as clear as ditchwater and may even be ditchwater. Let's just see what tomorrow's Yahoo FInance Singapore says...

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineStar_member From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

BIL has an interesting way of running a business. run a perfectly good airline into the ground, threaten the NZ govt and public with bankruptcy of the national airline and ask for double the asking price. BIL you got to buy the A shares in the first place because you are meant to be NZ owned. now you want your shares to be treated like the others - fair?

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Thanks for starting the new thread, well today it is
being reported that SIA and QF will meet seperatley in
Sydney this afternoon
with Toomey and the board, and hopefully we will have
some sort of direction by Monday, in the meantime
QF shares are taking a bath down to $3.13 from $3.45
last Friday.


User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Some of the guys over on the PPrune have thought
up some dire scenarios, here's a couple of reposts:

PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 123
Registered: Feb 99
posted 12 June 2001 05:01
Yes there is something sinister, it's called A SCALE- B SCALE. QF will use the 717 against the 737 and when SQ buys AN and VIRGIN BLUE they will use Virgins 737 against AN 737, count on it.
Going Boeing
PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 119
posted 12 June 2001 13:14
I think that Ferrari is very close to the mark. When SQ buys AN the AN assets will be transferred to VB, the Ansett brand name will dissapear and AN staff will be invited to tender for jobs with VB (at VB rates of pay of course) Bloody scary scenario isn't it and I sincerely hope that I am wrong because this will cause a lot of heartache for a lot of decent people at AN.

PPRuNe Flight Deck Qualified
Posts: 57
Registered: Oct 1999
posted 13 June 2001 11:22
I reckon Going Boeing has it spot on. AN needs billions spent on it to make it viable, whilst SQ has perfectly good aircraft pushed up against the fence. When SQ buy AN they will take the assets they want and flog the rest. As to the staff, I doubt SQ will embrace the existing AN industrial culture. Given that VB is for sale for $120m US, there is only one outcome that I can forsee.


User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

I hope that we will get a decison soon.

User currently offlineQantasAirways From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1280 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

I'm glad the SQ representatives are meeting with the QF board and Toomey etc. today.
Glad to see them working it out... Finally.

Hope to see good outcomes.
Thanks for making a new threat

Spirit of Australia
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

Hope there are no fisitcuffs

Australia's Qantas/Air NZ -2: Meeting In Sydney
(MORE) Dow Jones Newswires 14-06-01

Meeting In Sydney

SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN) chief executive Geoff Dixon said Thursday he will meet later this afternoon with independent directors of Air New Zealand Ltd.(A.AIZ).

Dixon said during the question and answer session of a luncheon speech that a statement will be issued after the meeting.

Qantas has proposed that it take up to 49% control of Air NZ, its rival on international routes and the owner of the Ansett Australia domestic carrier, with the purchase of significant stakes from 25% shareholder Singapore Airlines (Singapore: SIAL.SI - news) Ltd.(P.SAL) and 30% shareholder Brierley Investments Ltd. (A.BRY).

SIA will buy Ansett from Air NZ under the Qantas proposal, which has been roundly criticized by politicians in Wellington as a threat to the flag carrier's independence and international landing rights.
Qantas/Air NZ Proposal -2: To Be Lodged Shortly
(MORE) Dow Jones Newswires 14-06-01

To Be Lodged Shortly

SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN) Chief Executive Geoff Dixon said Thursday the Australian airline will lodge its formal proposal with Air New Zealand Ltd. (A.AIZ) later in the day.

Qantas' proposal to take a significant stake in rival Air New Zealand will be lodged "very shortly," he said.

The deal involves Air New Zealand's Ansett Australia unit being sold to Singapore Airlines (Singapore: SIAL.SI - news) Ltd. (P.SAL).

"I think it's a very, very good deal because I think both Air New Zealand and Qantas have very similar cultural values," Dixon said. "We believe in the same in how we run airlines. It will give us some critical mass."

Separately, Dixon said its proposed no-frills international carrier would have its own brand and livery but would be owned by Qantas. This airline would service routes that Qantas previously serviced but abandoned, including China, Athens and Seoul.

1419 [Dow Jones] Qantas (QAN) CEO Geoff Dixon confirms Sydney meeting this afternoon with Air NZ (AIZ) independent directors to discuss "partnership" proposal, which first presented as "control" plan but reshaped given strong political opposition in Wellington. Deal could take 6 months to settle, analysts say, due to political and regulatory hassles, but will boost stock outlook for each company as barriers cast aside. Singapore Airlines (Singapore: SIAL.SI - news) will also gain as deal mulls SIA purchase of Ansett Australia. (IGP)

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

Good grief,

Wirraway, are you not getting a bit carried away with the ramblings on pprune? I wouldn't take much heed of what they gossip about than what I would here.

I can honestly say that such a major shakeup of say Virgin B. replacing Ansett would be such a disastrous and ridiculous event, the feds hear in Oz wouldn't let it happen. What serious business traveller would travel with VB? I a mean seriously? You couldn't transfer the amount of qualified staff over and expect it to work.

The fact of the matter is AN works quite well even with the interferance of NZ. SQ know that the money to be made in Australia is not with bargain basement carriers but with high quality services and a good section of the premium business market. Any marketing manager will tell you that.

Australia can afford to have "one" discount carrier not two or three, even one is pushing the limit. SQ and AN have had relations for a little while now and it's well known that an AN under SQ will be nurtured and given huge amounts to expand it's network internationally and domestically.

Those of you who have flown AN International biz or econ, can you honestly tell me if their is another gweilo airline in the region that can offer the service and friendliness of AN (besides SQ - non gweilo)?

Do I need to tell you how many of my business collegues who all regularly fly Asia with AN and absolutely (sorry) adore it then are forced to fly QF / NZ or UA to the USA and wish vehemently for some AN style service there?

There are a couple of guys / girls I know in Marketing who will not fly those three to the West Coast USA, preferring to fly AN (or SQ) into Asia then to the USA via that way, usually with SQ.

The VB stories are pure folly, SQ would not be stupid enough to destroy a landmark Australian institution in the name of cheap and nastyness.

If the stories that are being leaked to the press are truthfull then you can bet your bottom that this deal is going to go through some way or another. Why waste so much time? They (boards of directors) don't dilly dally around when it comes to making decisions and sorting these things out, however it takes time for the regulators (such as the NZ Government who we said to have pooh poohed the idea) to see the light.

Expect AN to be in SQ ownership very shortly (whatever that means) and complete restructuring of AN back to the way it was, with the exception of some streamlining - expect a bit of quiet then a massive marketing campaign that is elegant and superfluous.

(Funny how my parters sister works for one of the major PR companies in Oz, she KNOWS what is soon to happen with the PR for AN.. No hints though!)

Let NZ & QF join forces, it's a great move for the survival of both, but an AN / SQ is going to feed the Kanga some pet food of it's own. (Am I funny or what?)

***A big hello to all the staff at AN again... Things will happen soon!! ***



***Absolutely Ansett***

User currently offlineGo canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

What ever happens in the next few days, you can bet that birley's sticky hands will be all over it.It seems that what ever happens, they will come out winners.It seems that they are being quite vocal at the moment.

Brierley calls for end to Air NZ's split share structure

AP - Air New Zealand's biggest shareholder, Brierley Investments, wants the New Zealand government to dismantle the company's complex A and B stock ownership structure to help it climb out of debt.

Under a scheme to keep the airline New Zealand owned, the airline's A shares can be owned only by New Zealand residents to ensure it can comply with treaties which give it foreign landing rights. The B shares can be owned by foreign investors like 25 per cent shareholder Singapore Airlines.

Brierley chief executive Greg Terry said today that if there was just one class of share it would be easier for the heavily indebted airline to raise capital in Australia, where it derives more than half its revenue.

"I do think that going forward there would be greater flexibility in capital raising for the airline if we didn't have that (share) distinction," he said.

"It's obviously important that the government maintains the control necessary to ensure that it remains a national flag carrier and that there is no risk to the treaties and that therefore you'd have to have more than a dropping of the A-B distinction," Terry said in an interview with Radio New Zealand.

He said Air New Zealand won't know how much new capital it needs until investment banker Salomon Smith Barney delivers a report on the company's options.

One of those is Qantas' proposal to buy Brierley's 30 percent stake and Singapore Airline's 25 percent holding and for Air NZ to sell its loss making Australian unit, Ansett Australia, to Singapore Airlines.

Air New Zealand chief executive Gary Toomey said today the airline's independent directors will meet with Qantas and Singapore Airlines tomorrow to discuss the proposal.

The plan will have to overcome strong political opposition in New Zealand and regulatory hurdles, including a 25 percent cap on ownership by a foreign airline.

Terry said Qantas had not made a formal offer yet.

He restated that Brierley was not interested in selling unless offered around double the current price of $NZ1.10 a share.

©AAP 2001

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

The reposts from PPrune are what a few paranoid pilots
have posted there, they are certainly not mine, as I
have stated many many times all I have said is that
ANZ will lose control of Ansett, and at this stage of
the game looks like SQ will be the winner. You don't have
to give me a lecture on Ansett as I worked there for
many years, lighten up a bit, its not the end of the
world.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineStar_member From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

it will be a mistake for airnz to let an go to sq. they need to keep sq/nz/an together. they have so much potential together and complimentary. this trio once well capitalised with leave qf in its wake.

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

I don't think it will be a mistake. The "3" Alliance will continue regardless of wheter AN is sold to Singapore Airlines. (3 - Singapore Airlines, Ansett Holdings, Air New Zealand).

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

From this mornings "Australian"

Qantas takes a hit
By Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
June 15, 2001
THE Qantas plan to buy into Air New Zealand suffered a hammer blow yesterday after cash-rich carrier Singapore Airlines said it would be prepared to buy a "significant" stake in Ansett Airlines.

The development came just hours before Qantas executives were to put a formal proposal to Air NZ's committee of independent directors last night outlining plans to take a stake in the carrier.

While the Singaporeans did not put a formal proposal to the Air NZ committee, chief executive Cheong Choong Koong confirmed that the option was raised as a way of bolstering the Kiwi carrier's balance sheet.

Dr Cheong said his plan could involve Singapore Airlines buying a "large stake" in Ansett while retaining, and possibly increasing, its existing 25 per cent holding in Air New Zealand. He would not put a figure on the stake at this stage but observed that Ansett needed "a lot of capital".

"Given the present state of its balance sheet, Air New Zealand is unable to assist," Dr Cheong said.

"So if we buy just a token stake in Ansett, then Air New Zealand would still have a problem coming up with its share of capitalisation and funding of Ansett's needs. So it would have to be a quite significant stake."

While Air NZ says it is not in any near-term financial difficulty, the carrier is looking at ways of funding its long-term needs and a badly needed modernisation of Ansett.

Qantas was due to put its formal proposal to the independent directors last night. Chief executive Geoff Dixon refused to comment when asked about the plan in Sydney yesterday.

Qantas wants to buy up to 49 per cent of Air New Zealand in a deal that would see SIA pick up 100 per cent of Ansett Holdings.

However, the deal faces political opposition in New Zealand and Dr Cheong said it was not SIA's preferred option.

"But we wouldn't reject it, because until we find a better alternative and we are sure that it's workable, we should be open to all possible solutions," he said.

The Singaporeans also see the need to make a decision on Air New Zealand's funding soon.

"We owe it to the employees, the customers, to our shareholders," Dr Cheong said. "As long as we do not move, morale of staff is bound to be affected. And if it's not good for staff morale, it's not good for the customers and it's not good for business and not good for shareholders."

It is not clear how dependent an SIA investment in Ansett would be on a decision by the NZ Government to raise the 25 per cent cap on investment in Air NZ by a foreign airline.

Dr Cheong said it was inappropriate to comment until he had spoken to the NZ Government but the option involved keeping its present stake and "possibly" raising it.

"We have made, or we will be making very soon, requests for appointments in Wellington," he said.

Asked whether there was a situation where Singapore Airlines might pull out of Air NZ, Dr Cheong said: "We don't take investment in airlines casually. When we invest in an airline it's with a long-term objective and we are there to stay.

"And while we wouldn't reject the Qantas proposal, what has to be demonstrated to us is why we have to leave Air NZ."

Earlier, Mr Dixon warned an Australian Institute of Company Directors lunch in Sydney that Qantas's status as an Australian icon was blocking a global future that would secure the airline's success.

He renewed calls for changes to foreign investment legislation to give the airline more flexibility and better access to foreign capital.

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Singapore Airlines may scupper Qantas plan

SYDNEY (Reuters) - A radical proposal from Qantas Airways Ltd to take a stake in rival Air New Zealand Ltd and reshape regional aviation hit turbulence on Friday as Singapore Airlines (Singapore: SIAL.SI - news) Ltd sketched out an alternative plan.

Instead of selling its 25 percent stake in Air NZ and taking full control of its loss-making Ansett Australia carrier, SIA said it was prepared to buy a "significant" direct interest in Ansett and possibly lift its Air NZ stake.

"We must go back to basic principles. Ansett needs capital and the balance sheet of Air NZ does not allow it to help," SIA chief executive Cheong Choong Kong told Singapore's Business Times.

"If we have only a small stake in Ansett, Air NZ would still have to put up its share of the capital."

Analysts say cash-rich SIA is reluctant to help Air NZ find a way to recapitalise Ansett and fund a NZ$3-NZ$5 billion fleet upgrade while its stake is limited to 25 percent by New Zealand foreign ownership regulations.

Taking partial control would also avoid SIA consolidating Ansett's debt.

"We don't have all the time in the world. The Air NZ group and Ansett in particular are facing serious problems," Cheong said.

"We must identify all possible alternatives and make decisions quickly. The longer this serious situation remains unresolved, the worse it will be."

Speculation that one of Air NZ's Star Alliance partners could come to its rescue also resurfaced on Friday, as the New Zealand Herald reported in an unsourced story that United Airlines could take a 10 percent stake in Air NZ.

Tim Ross, Asian aviation analyst at UBS Warburg in Auckland, said SIA moves could form another obstacle in the path of the Qantas proposal, which is already beset by a swathe of regulatory and political hurdles.

"Added to that you've got United throwing its hat in the ring, you've got the New Zealand government looking at independent advice on what it should be doing with regards to ownership and investment," Ross told Reuters.

"It all adds up to making Qantas' overtures perhaps less likely to be accepted."


Sources close to the negotiations said they expected the Qantas plan to be the first in a series of proposals put forward.

Air NZ chief executive Gary Toomey said earlier this week the carrier's board would consider several strategies at its board meeting on Monday.

"No doubt the views of Dr Cheong will be considered by the independent directors which met with him yesterday. Meetings are on going, discussions are continuing," Geoff Lynch, Ansett spokesman said on Friday.

Qantas declined to comment.

Cheong told the Australian newspaper the Qantas proposal, which would also see the Australian carrier buy part of Brierley stake, was not his preferred option but SIA would consider all plans.

"We wouldn't reject it because until we find a better alternative and we are sure that it's workable, we should be open to all possible solutions," Cheong told the newspaper.

Air NZ blocked SIA's planned A$500 million purchase of News Corp's 50 percent stake in Ansett in 1999, when it used its pre-emptive rights to take full control of the second-ranked Australian domestic carrier.

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

NZ Govt/Singapore Airlines/Air NZ -4: Needs Fresh Equity
(MORE) Dow Jones Newswires 15-06-01

Govt Agrees To Meet

WELLINGTON (Dow Jones)--Singapore Airlines (Singapore: SIAL.SI - news) (P.SAL) has sought a meeting with the New Zealand government to discuss Air New Zealand (A.AIZ) ownership issues, a spokeswoman for Finance Minister Michael Cullen said Friday.

The government has agreed to the meeting although the date still has to be set, the spokeswoman told Dow Jones Newswires.

The meeting will be with Air New Zealand's "shareholding ministers," who are Cullen and Transport Minister Mark Gosche, she added.

(MORE) Dow Jones Newswires 15-06-01

0308GMT May Also Meet PM

"A meeting has been sought and yes, he (Cullen) will meet them but that's all I can tell you. I don't even know if a time has been set down," the spokeswoman said.

Singapore's Straits Times Friday reported that Singapore Airlines is leaning toward retaining or increasing its 25% stake in Air New Zealand and buying part of the carrier's Ansett Australia unit instead of participating in Qantas Airways' takeover proposal.

"The Qantas proposal is not SIA's preferred option," SIA Deputy Chairman Cheong Choong Kong said, according to the report.

Under the Qantas transaction, the Australian carrier would acquire up to 49% of Air New Zealand by buying Singapore Airline's stake and Brierley Investment's (A.BRY) 30% stake.

Once in control, Qantas would sell Ansett Australia to Singapore Airlines.

The Qantas proposal has met with stiff opposition from local lawmakers who are concerned that a takeover of Air New Zealand would jeopardize the airline's international landing rights, hurt tourism promotion, and stifle competition.

Singapore Airlines, however, could face similar opposition to Qantas because under current ownership rules, 25% is the maximum interest a foreign airline can have in Air New Zealand.

A spokesman for Prime Minister Helen Clark said Singapore Airlines had also requested a meeting with Clark next week but she is yet to respond.


11:46 PM Needs Fresh Equity

Singapore Airlines has also requested a meeting with Deputy Prime Minister and Alliance Party leader Jim Anderton.

The Alliance is the junior partner in New Zealand's center-left minority coalition government.

A well placed Alliance Party source told Dow Jones Newswires there is a view in the Alliance Party that the best outcome for Air New Zealand would be if Singapore Airlines bought loss-making Ansett Australia.

The meeting between Anderton and Singapore Airlines is expected to take place next week, the source added.

Air New Zealand's board is meeting Monday and Tuesday, but the company is declining to reveal the meeting's agenda.

The airline's future ownership structure is currently the subject of intense speculation amid uncertainty about how it will fund a NZ$5 billion fleet upgrade and expectations the carrier will report a loss for the year to June of about NZ$170 million. Restrictions on foreign ownership of the airline are constraining its ability to raise much-needed new equity.

Around 0428 GMT, shares of Qantas were up 5 cents, or 1.6%, at A$3.26, Air New Zealand's resident-only A shares were up 5 cents, or 4.6%, at NZ$1.15, and shares of Singapore Airlines were down 30 Singapore cents, or 2.3%, at S$12.60.
SIA cool to Qantas' proposal on Air NZ

Singapore Airlines has grown 'quite attached' to Air New Zealand and is unwilling to give up its stake

By Nicholas Fang

SINGAPORE Airlines' (SIA's) chief executive yesterday gave the cold shoulder to Qantas' bid to muscle in on its quarter-owned Air New Zealand (Air NZ), after a meeting in Sydney yesterday to discuss what was on the table.

One option could be for SIA to buy into Ansett and keep or raise its Air NZ stake, says Dr Cheong.
In the strongest indication so far of SIA's stance on the move by its Australian rival to create a mega Asia-Pacific airline, Dr Cheong Choong Kong, who is also SIA's deputy chairman, said yesterday: 'The Qantas proposal is not SIA's preferred option.'

Dr Cheong, who was speaking to reporters in Singapore after returning from Sydney, said there were other options open to SIA.

Qantas wants to buy up to 49 per cent of Air NZ by buying all, or part of SIA's 25 per cent stake and Singapore-based Brierley Investment's 30 per cent holding.

In return, Air NZ would sell SIA its struggling unit, Ansett - which trails behind Qantas as Australia's No 2 airline.

The SIA chief said that while the national carrier was willing to help Ansett - which needs cash to upgrade its fleet - 'we would have to be persuaded why we should give up our stake in Air NZ'.

SIA had become 'quite attached' to Air NZ after working with them for many months, he said.

He disclosed that one option could be for his airline to take a stake in Ansett and still keep its Air NZ stake, possibly raising this above the 25 per cent limit to which it is now restricted, if the Kiwi government gave the green light.

When asked how big a stake in Ansett would be attractive, he indicated that it would have to be substantial.

'Ansett needs capital and the balance sheet of Air NZ does not allow it to help,' he said.

'If we have only a small stake in Ansett, Air NZ would still have to put up its share of the capital and it does not have the resources to do that.'

He emphasised that this was just another option, and not a proposal.

The meeting in Sydney involved an independent committee set up by the Air NZ board and Qantas executives. SIA was there as a shareholder of the Kiwi carrier.

Dr Cheong also said yesterday that the rumours of SIA 'egging' on Qantas in its bid were untrue, although this would allow it to achieve its long-held aim of owning Ansett.

SIA has been seeking a foothold in the lucrative Australian domestic market for some time and tried but failed to acquire a 50 per cent stake in Ansett in 1999.

Given the latest developments, Dr Cheong said that SIA would be 'making appointments as soon as possible' to speak to the New Zealand government about the proposed deal.

The Kiwi government indicated two weeks ago that it was against foreign companies holding a controlling stake Air NZ as this might affect landing rights and New Zealand tourism.

When asked if he felt the deal would be resolved soon, Dr Cheong said: 'We do not have all the time in the world.'

'The Air NZ group and Ansett, in particular, are facing serious problems. We must identify all possible alternatives and make decisions quickly.'

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1996 times:

"If SIA don't wanna sell, Qantas can kiss ANZ buy buy(byebye) "

eheheheheh  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1995 times:


Sorry if I sounded a bit crabby, I assure you I wasn't, just in a bit of a hurry to post. And no I didn't think that your 'views' were that of paranoid pilots. lol

The latest news article you have posted suggests SQ are playing games with the media. Take a look at all the reports and you can see the game they are playing, Asian businessmen hate to lose face and they already have once with NZ / AN.

They are going to keep 'mum' about anything that will be happening in the future. The announcements will probably be made without any hint of whats going (aka - Impulse / QF) after the media hype has died down.

Further to my comments on the 'huge marketing campaign' my partners sister is one of the marketing co-ordinators at a PR co, she reckons the work she is helping to do is "forward marketing contract costs" and not related to NZ in any way.

Obviously she wouldn't tell me who it was (nor would I go so far as to post that type of stuff on here) but I reckon we could hazard a guess! (Wouldn't you just die if it was someone like Virgin??)

If SQ does take a bigger stake in NZ expect a bloodbath in the NZ boardroom. No doubt about that! I still beleive it would be better for NZ to get into a marriage with QF, along with some conditions of course.

Anyhow enough of my ramblings! What did you do at AN?



***Absolutely Ansett***

User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1519 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

The proposal I've always been waiting for...

SQ takes over 50% of AN, maybe taking up to 49% of NZ, and they're joined together to flight the dominant Australiasia airline -- QANTAS...

that makes much more sense.

does UA REALLY want to get involved into this? I mean, it is good to see other STAR members helping out but... what's UA got to do with all these?

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

I note a lot of "pro" SQ posts forthwith. Hmmmm, the frightening thing for NZ is if SQ gets control of NZ the blood will flow - so to speak. You can kiss goodbye any expansion of NZ. AN will take over, under the wing of SQ.

OK, lets put our Singaporean friends in their respective places. Lets face some authorative facts. SQ has suffered from a recent nasty crash where many lives were lost, may we also comment on the silk air crash which is still unresolved and the relatives of that accident are still not compensated for what they should receive.

SQ has a few bugs up it's collective arrogant ass. Their mantenance is dubious (according to world authorities) and their business practices are supsicious. Not that that would be a problem for AN (Australian regulations to adhere to). SQ treats their staff quite badly - again not a problem for AN.

Let me add that the GDP of Singapore is 1/3 of the City of Sydneys. And that is one city in one state of Australia. Did our little Singaporean friends realise that if Singapore does not change their own "foreign ownership rules" SQ will be blocked from further investment in other countries carriers.

A close source to the Labor party in Australia suggested that a buy-back of Australian institutions to save them from foreign owenership would include AN.

More scandal to the fray.



***Absolutely Ansett***

User currently offlineWirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Let me commend you on your Dow Jones reposts,
bloody fantastic, now, how much would I have to
pay a month to subcribe to the "Dow Jones newswires"?,
pretty exspensive I'll bet.

No problems mate with your post, trying to read between the lines of what Dr Cheong has said, I think
that either deal that happens, SQ wins Ansett, surely
their in the box seat. If they stick with the Kiwis I
don't believe a 50-50 deal is possible and will want
control. In answer to your question, I worked at Ansett
at check-in, a stint at Ansett-Pioneer as a coach captain and later in the office.

PS: Virgin Blue have just announced Brisbane-Canberra
starting on July 12.

User currently offlineJubilee777 From Singapore, joined May 1999, 528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

The thing that catches my attention is the "foreign ownership rules".

AFAIK, as long as SIA remains a 51% Singapore owned entity (landing rights stuff), SIA can be 100% NON-Government owned. I think the same goes for many countries in the world, thats why the NZ government is concerned where percentages comes into play.

In fact, that goes for many other "government owned" companies too. When Singapore was separated from Malaya in 1965, the market was too small for the private sector to operate.....in fact, i can safely say that the government had NO CHOICE but to take over some of the major sectors like bus services, airlines, land developments, banks etc....(would anyone want to start a bank branch in East Timor now ???)

That's why Singapore is normally known as Singapore Inc. , coz it dates back to the time where the government had to create and nuture it's private sector, and many of the companies had already been "released" of government intervention in their dealings (eg. Singtel takeover of Optus).

Back to SQ/AN/NZ, SQ would want a return for its price on Air NZ - (NZ$3 and above), which is 100% premium over AirNZ's closing price, so if QF has to pay....its gonna be more than NZ$3 for it's 25% stake.

SIA is holding the trump card actually.....if it does not sell it's stake, there is no way QF is gonna get the AirNZ stake. So expect QF to pay for extra $$$ for Air NZ. (Talk about dubious business dealings..).

In this way, not only SIA get a trouble filled AN, it would also hamper the expansion plan of QF if it gets AirNZ, so both parties would be on a more "equal footing", so QF may not neccessarily be "stronger" in an instance.

Whatever SIA/QF/AN/NZ, decide on its their business, i am not paid to do the worrying for them! But expect QF to pay a high price to take over AirNZ.


User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1951 times:


According to the CIA world factbook, the GDP per capita of Singapore was US$27 800, while that of Australia was $22 200.

'Their mantenance is dubious (according to world authorities) and their business practices are supsicious. '

Could you please quote who the 'world authorities' are and give examples of how their business practives are suspicious?

This is quite interesting.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

As always ingenious Cheong has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and is in the pilot's chair. Hoorah!

MX5: Although it was an interesting post, i resent the fact that you called Singaporeans "Did our little Singaporean friends realise that if Singapore does not change their own "foreign ownership rules" SQ will be blocked from further investment in other countries carriers"

I think this deal is looking even more precarious. If Cheong says that the QF deal isn't in SIA's best interests, then QF (and possible ANZ / AN) will have to play by SIA's rules.

I know what the non-SIA-Lovers are thinking. How arrogant! I think that yes of course it is, but that's business and business is a Bitch. Take it or leave it.

I think this is a new turn. let's just hope it';s coming to Singapore  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

As to my Dow Jones subscriptions... Well. What subscriptions???

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (14 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

I want now to throw another "hand grenade" into the equation.

Dixon is very good at setting up smoke screens. The "announcement" of the rebirth of "Australian Airlines" to fly the routes that QF have pulled back from. An all economy International airline.

The strategy is to counter ANZ's increased use of BNE as a hub for Asia services and paying ANZ crew at NZ rates of pay. Now you can start to see why the Unions are spoiling for a fight, and why QF have busily been training staff in Manila - (why not Avalon). Who wants to fly to Greece, all economy with reduced cabin service and no FF benefits!!

BUT: The announcement is a further attempt to undermine the value of SQ/AN/ANZ. It worked with Impulse (frighten the backers with the competition issue) and what better way than introduce more "competition" to weaken potential AN investment options.

Word on the street is the QF deal has been dumped. As this scenario grew out of Singapore, the whole thing has a strategy that smells. Required outcome. Remove Cushing, gain the original control of AN, remove BIL from ANZ, (SQ do not like the 'Malayan' connection), and the way to do that is back the NZ Govt into corner to make them change the rules.

One comment Mx-5. Understand your comments about how some people "hate ANZ/QF/UA", but go to the USA by an Asian carrier. They must have more money and time on their hands than they know what to do with. Any one of my staff doing that would be out the door.

And please do not nuture the idea that SQ will leave the 'culture' at AN alone. My sources tell me SQ have already obtained the legal advice concerning the enforceability of existing employment contracts in a new company formation. That leads to one conclusion. They will "re-employ" only those people who "fit" the SQ profile, and that does not auger well for management, our existing EEO and SD frameworks, or even the senior management at AN. I can even give you the name of the legal firmS involved, and the consulting partners.

Well folks keep this burbling on - I'm away to NZ, Singapore, and Chicago for the next two weeks. By then this will have settled down.


25 Wirraway : Singapore_Air Do you mean I can get it for free? if so could you give me the url. thanks Wirraway
26 Post contains links Singapore_Air : AHHAHAHA! OK. Yeah it's free. I would never pay for something! Ha! Anywhere however I get if from Yahoo Singapore Finance. Type SIAL and then click Ne
27 Singapore_Air : Singapore bidding for Air NZ stake June 15, 2001 Posted: 3:46 PM HKT (0746 GMT) By CNN's Grant Holloway SYDNEY, Australia (CNN) -- The increasingly co
28 Wirraway : From this morning (Sat) NZ Heraald: Hush after Sydney air talks 15.06.2001 By DANIEL RIORDAN aviation writer Air New Zealand and Qantas Airways are st
29 Wirraway : Just when you think SQ has got Ansett in the bag now comes another twist, from this mornings Mel Herald Sun: SIA offer for Air NZ may be grounded By G
30 Go canada! : as ive said previously it is SO unlikely that United will get involved-just because they are in star doesnt mean to say they want anz and do people re
31 Al : Some points: NZ no longer fly to anywhere out of BNE except N.Z. The BNE "hub" was dismantled as an unmitigated failure. There is a hell of a lot more
32 QantasAirways : This deal isn't looking good for Qantas at all. Why isn't there ever a chance for Qantas to expand like everybody else? I hope Singapore Airlines does
33 Wirraway : AI wrote: ......"AN has gone from a company with an open door policy at all levels with open, frank discussions and receptive ears for suggestions/ide
34 Wirraway : Virgin Blue announces $500,000 trading profit Australia's fledgling discount airline Virgin Blue has announced a trading profit of more than $500,000
35 Wirraway : The diamond pattern for Virgin Blue is completed. Sydney to Melbourne DJ804# 6:45am 8:10am DJ808 8:30am 9:55am DJ822 12:20pm 1:45pm DJ832 4:40pm 6:05p
36 PerthGloryfan : An interesting aspect of this issue is the complete silence of BA. As a significant shareholder of QF they would have been in on the bid for ANZ, but
37 QantasAirways : Yes that is quite true. Why haven't British Airways said anything about it? They really should... But I'm sure BA doesn't want anything to do with it.
38 Star_member : does anyone in this forum really believe that QF is only interested in developing a 'partnership' and helping out new zealand's embattled national car
39 Wirraway : Cushing counters market criticism 17 June 2001 By GARRY SHEERAN Sir Selwyn Cushing has defended his actions as former chairman of Air New Zealand and
40 Go Canada! : Qantas directors to face charges Creditors owed millions of dollars when Qantas New Zealand went under are welcoming a decison to charge seven company
41 Go Canada! : Cameron to advise on Air NZ deal by Giles Parkinson Posted 12:40 PM EST, Jun-15-2001 SYDNEY — The New Zealand government has retained merchant b
42 Dalecary : Business News Jim Farmer Air NZ's directors ponder ownership options 18.06.2001 By FRAN O'SULLIVAN assistant editor Air New Zealand's board begins a
43 Wirraway : Dalecary According to a report posted here somewhere, both govts would not agree to to SIA having that much control in both NZ and Aust, geeze SIA is
44 Air Taiwan : Wow~~ SIA want's 80% AN and 35% NZ!! I thought they only wanted like 51% of AN and 25% of NZ... can i say that they're greedy?
45 QantasAirways : Air Taiwan, I wouldn't say it would be Singapore Airlines that is greedy, but you might say that they don't want to be seen as the "bad guy" here. Now
46 Air Taiwan : Well SIA doesn't "hate" Qantas. In fact, they wanted QF a while back when the OZ government sold QF shares. And everyone knows, BA got the 25% of QF..
47 Star_member : i think sq wants a large chunk of an 'coz it knows it has to fork out a large amount of capital to give ailing an a big boost. i just flew between syd
48 Jet_guy : I reckon anythings better than QF! But SQ is a bonus!! Sam
49 Aviasian : In this whole saga, there are two sick patient, one more sick than the other. SIA already has equity in ANZ, which is quite sick - being cash strapped
50 QantasAirways : And yet it continues again... I think that the SQ/NZ/AN trio are a very good bunch together, and having experienced 2 of the three airlines in that bu
51 Trentis : I just can't wait for AN to get a big injection of cash for their new fleet. Hurry up already! BTW, with Virgin Blue announcing 5 daily return SYD-MEL
52 Wirraway : Trentis Good point where are the slots coming from, not to mention Dixons new no-frills international airline!, where are the extra slots there?. We a
53 Aduum : I strongly doubt that a SQ/Ansett/ANZ relationship will be approved as an article above stated. Think about it, it will almost be 3 airlines verse one
54 Post contains images PerthGloryfan : QantasAirways: Don't forget that that Four Corners program also mentioned that it was the withdrawal of backing funds by "Singapore Inc" (Singapore go
55 Star_member : SQ is not the only airline trying to consolidate their positions and increase their dominance in the world market. While the drama is in Australasia a
56 The Coachman : Are these 1/2 hourly flights new? Because as of a week ago, they were offering 1/2 hourly flights anyway, mostly on 763's!!!! The Coachman
57 Wirraway : Coachman Qantas boosts service ahead of Virgin attack From AAP 18jun01 QANTAS Airways Ltd will add express services to the Sydney-to-Melbourne leg bef
58 Wirraway : Monday June 18, 2:24 PM Australia Qantas Eyes 55% Stake In Rival Air NZ - Broker SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN) could buy
59 Post contains images Al : Slots aren't an issue for the "new" half hourly QF flites they announced. AN has been half hourly on the route for most of the day for years. QF is al
60 Wirraway : Al Sorry about getting your title wrong, your explanation about the slots adds up. As to the reposts of news if every one wants that, I will cease and
61 Post contains images Wirraway : Its been reported that ANZ will have to sell at least 80% if not all of Ansett to survive: http://www.newsdirectory.com/go/?f=&r=oc&u=www.evpost.co.nz
62 Go canada! : well i cant wait to see what happens next, one thing though its crystal clear that ANZ/Ansett is no more!!! I have been proved right.
63 Dalecary : in the Australasian press today, one of the representatives of Salomon Smith Barney who are advising the NZ board on their various financial options h
64 BNE : Ansett world to shrink. Flight West YC, ceased operations last night. They provided provide prop and jet services to 30 Queensland centres and were an
65 B727-200 : And while this goes on, QF just keep on growing and planning growth, whilst Ansett and ANZ sit on their collective hands doing nothing. As I have sai
66 Post contains images Al : Thanx Wirraway on the name bit !! As for the posting of media reports, hey, I'm only one person in this thread and was just stating my own personal op
67 Post contains images The Coachman : Hmm....specialised check-in counters and carousels...that's the only difference, as someone else has said, it's been 1/2 hourly for a long time in pea
68 QantasAirways : Yes, its totally true that QF will be launching SYD-MEL every half hour. According to their site: Sydney to Melbourne every half hour. That's the spir
69 Wirraway : SIA refuses to sell it's stake in AirNZ, CEO says after meeting with NZ govt. http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/010619/3/11wkq.html Wirraway
70 Post contains images Trentis : AN are going to have to try and expand either Kendell or Hazelton fairly quickly to make up for Flight West, or Sunstate is going to take all those pa
71 Aviasian : Actually, one only has to go back to fairly recent history to recall that Air New Zealand was the one that blocked the sale of a portion of Ansett to
72 Post contains images Jet_guy : SQ officials are meeting with the NZ government tonight, or tommorow in Wellington. Hopefuly Helen will bend national legislation just a little to let
73 Air Taiwan : just my thoughts... i don't think SQ would be satisfied with only 25% of AN... I think they want control over how AN is ran, so at least SQ wants 51%
74 Wirraway : Well it looks like this saga is all over, Air NZ to retain Ansett and SIA to increase shareholding in ANZ, subject to NZ govt approval, which after th
75 Oz777 : Which perhaps means that NOW those individuals who took up the wager may care to make the relevant donations to the charities!! Oz777
76 Go canada! : Oz777-my wager still has 16 months to run, as I placed a bet that ansett would no longer by fully under anz control and that anz itself would not be f
77 Go canada! : I wonder what Qantas are going to next, they seem a little bit silly after this lastest round of news-I bet roddy@BA isnt that pleased either!
78 Go canada! : Door closes on Qantas plan to grab stake in Air NZ, oh dear i bet geoffy isnt happy. Qantas is officially out of the race to gain a big stake in its t
79 Wirraway : Interesting snippet from this mornings Fin Review: In a separate development before the Air NZ announcement, the owner of no-frills airline Virgin Blu
80 BruneiAir : I can see under the wing of SIA, Ansett taking off and Air NZ dying slowly, SIA has said before that the only reason they bought into ANZ was because
81 Star_member : the next sensible step would be for the nz govt to allow sq to increase their stake and buy out the rest of bil's stake themselves. then airnz/an coul
82 Dalecary : Oz777, I am getting ready to donate my money to the salvos but not quite yet. This deal has to pass both NZ and Aus Gov't authorities and there are se
83 Post contains images Al : Nothing's changed - everything is still in a very damaging limbo, except the QF proposal seems to be on the outer. If the N.Z. Government puts a spann
84 Al : I should check my sources before posting. Have just seen/heard exactly what the NZ board have said - they are totally out of control. They have actual
85 Jet_guy : ..ohhh thats very concerning.......
86 Aviasian : Well . . . for those looking for a winner, don't hold your breath. No one wins in this saga thus far. BruneiAir : I do not believe SQ has sacked any "
87 Al : I can't really believe this. They are so stubbornly wanting to hang on to AN it appears they are happy to let the entire NZ company die rather than ha
88 QantasAirways : Singapore kills off Qantas bid By CHRISTOPHER NIESCH 20jun01 SINGAPORE Airlines effectively killed off Qantas' plans to take a major stake in Air New
89 QantasAirways : Singapore kills off Qantas bid By CHRISTOPHER NIESCH 20jun01 SINGAPORE Airlines effectively killed off Qantas' plans to take a major stake in Air New
90 Dalecary : Al, I share your bemusement with the whole situation. In fact I am gob-smacked by it all. And now Mr Toomey has come out and said SQ won't get a contr
91 Jubilee777 : Latest i heard..... Qantas had gone complaining to Papa Howard that SIA had take the Koru candy (AirNZ) from under their nose. A family meeting will b
92 Dalecary : I would be complaining too If I was QF. Why should a foreign and Gov't backed airline(SQ) be allowed to control 2 Australasian airlines (AN and NZ)? I
93 Jubilee777 : Woah......hold a bit....its as if everything here was "SQ's fault". You should blast both Soloman Smith Barney and Air NZ's managemnet first. Anyway,
94 Wirraway : snippet from Boomberg site: ============================ Air New Zealand has narrowed down its options and is moving in the right direction,'' said Bl
95 Star_member : one think i can't quite understand is, if SQ is only interested in airNZ to get its claws into the australian market and AN as it is alledged by Dixon
96 Wirraway : Star_member It was only a little over 24 hours ago that SIA's plan was a substantial increase in Air NZ plus 80% of Ansett, of coarse SIA want eventua
97 Al : I don't see that the Oz Government has got a leg to stand on, quite frankly. They've already made their own bed by legislating that 100% of Domestic c
98 Go Canada! : well this gets better and better doesn't it? I think that QF aren't exactly going to let SQ control Ansett I can see Howard going for that one!I think
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