FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3172 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4378 times:
Surprised this wasn't mentioned yet: IND has a new 5-year lease deal with all the pax and cargo carriers.
In the new Airline Use Agreement, a key part is that IND's average costs per enplanement will decrease from $10 today to $8.86 in 2015. Already, airlines are expressing interest in mopre flights at IND. WN will add two new flights next year to an unknown destination. But the kicker is that DL is seriously considering new flights and destinations as well, and is already upgrading flights from RJs to mainline. Could we see a return of the PMNW focus city?
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4210 times:
Somebody seriously ought to start IND-BNA. WN would be the obvious choice but it would be amusing to see DL beat them to the punch. 3x daily Mesaba CRJ?
FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3172 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Quoting lv (Reply 3): I'm not sure how they are cutting costs this much to make it work... but I really hope it helps my hometown get more flights.
The Indianapolis Airport Authority's reasoning: Reduce costs, increase flights. And the more pax that use IND (or any airport, for that matter), the more people will spend on dining, shopping, and car rentals... IND (and other airports) gets a cut from the likes of Wendy's and Hertz just like they do from Delta and Southwest. Plus the bugs and kinks from the new terminal have almost all been worked out by now, which gives the IAA an incentive to reduce costs.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21239 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4118 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 1): Somebody seriously ought to start IND-BNA.
Why? It's an easy four hour or so drive. It's not quite far enough for the "WN effect."
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3979 times:
Isn't $95 sq ft kinda expensive? also, is IND lease terms month-to-month or long term?
Another thing I find interesting is that the airport states "signatory airlines will receive credit from the non-airport revenue, but if there is a shortfall the airlines are expected to make up the difference".. WHAT??
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3936 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5): It's an easy four hour or so drive. It's not quite far enough for the "WN effect.
You must drive like I do. For normal people it's more like 5. It would be about the same as CVG, which has 3 dailies. Granted, that route used to be all about connections, but with the "hub" where it is now, probably not so much.
Nashville-St Louis is only 20 miles longer, and that sees WN service. Everybody expects BNA-ATL once the FL merger happens, and that's a shorter (albeit more irritating) drive than to Indy.
floridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1985 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3893 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 8): For normal people it's more like 5. It would be about the same as CVG, which has 3 dailies. Granted, that route used to be all about connections, but with the "hub" where it is now, probably not so much.
dbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 792 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3734 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter): In the new Airline Use Agreement, a key part is that IND's average costs per enplanement will decrease from $10 today to $8.86 in 2015.
I'm curious how this compares to other airports. I've heard that IND is expensive to operate out of..does this bring IND's costs down to the level of other similar sized airports?
FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3172 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3525 times:
Quoting dbo861 (Reply 11): does this bring IND's costs down to the level of other similar sized airports?
The IAA stated in one of the Indy Star articles that airports in IND's size and higher across the US have a total cost in the range of $4-$20 per enplaned pax. I wonder what the $20 airport is... ONT? They have a cost problem worse than IND that's driving away carriers.
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7): Isn't $95 sq ft kinda expensive?
Compared to FWA's proposed $40.44/sq ft for FY2011, it is. But keep in mind that IND is in a much bigger metro area and has a larger native catchment area (BMG, HUF, LAF; not to mention leakage from FWA, SBN, and EVV). Also, FWA has property tax levies to fund ops and pay down the old Kitty Hawk facility, while IND doesn't rely on local tax dollars. Because of this, plus the fact that Indy has a mayor that ran on a "no new taxes" pledge (though he's up for reelection this November), IND has to pass costs onto the airlines.
rampguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3248 times:
Someone mentioned new cities for DL from IND. Any opinions as to what that might be? I certainly would like to see more scheduled 757 service. Be even nice to see a widebody service, but I know that is stretching it a bit.
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3113 times:
Quoting skyrat (Reply 10):
I'm thinking he means CVG-BNA.
Affirmative. Come to think of it, that route was my first ride on a RJ, back when such things were kind of a novelty.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21239 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2974 times:
Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 8): Nashville-St Louis is only 20 miles longer, and that sees WN service. Everybody expects BNA-ATL once the FL merger happens, and that's a shorter (albeit more irritating) drive than to Indy.
Yes - but what connecting purpose would going straight south serve?
I don't think IND-BNA is a totally crazy idea, but the combination of less O&D than a route like CMH-BNA (because it's shorter) and fewer sensible connections than IND-STL will make it hard for it to work - if it were a route that made sense for WN, they'd have tried it long ago.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
lambertman From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2040 posts, RR: 38 Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2903 times:
The problem with air service at IND is that the competitive dynamic there really prevents anyone from making a major splash. There --really-- isn't a great opportunity for anyone there because each carrier has a piece of the pie that prevents other carriers from expanding. As carriers expand in markets, the fringe markets (like BNA or LIT) come along to support the operation in general.
I suppose San Francisco is a logical addition but its too long for a CR7 and too small for a A319. Seattle falls in the same boat but its even more exaggerated because there is less traffic. Service to Florida markets is adequate so there really isn't any gap there.
On the other hand, what carriers are willing to let IND grow markets (i.e. AirTran growing Milwaukee markets)? Delta has shown tepid interest at best in the market and apparently has more interest in STL than it does IND. WN has always had a presence at IND for years and has never shown any real interest in making IND a key market. FL tried to make IND its MKE (in my opinion), but IND officials fumbled the ball.
In short, I would anticipate little, if any growth. I wouldn't rule out a B6 sighting though as its pretty well known IND officials are slobbering over the thought.
Note a comment in paragraph 7:
“The lower projected rates put us in a very favorable position. Equally important, we believe this
agreement demonstrates our door is wide open for continued dialogue with airline executives
about new and expanded air service in Indianapolis, especially to key West Coast markets,” adds
Marsha Stone, IAA’s chief financial officer.
Some of us here on "the west coast" are kind of excited by some of the implications of this statement...
In a related point of interest, SAN has been mentioned quite a bit lately as a high priority destination by the IND folks. Wouldn't be a bad fit for either DL or WN if you ask me!
mattrockIND From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2639 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 17): In a related point of interest, SAN has been mentioned quite a bit lately as a high priority destination by the IND folks.
So we can get a cheap non-stop flight to heckle Phillip Rivers at Qualcomm...
Non-stops to the West Coast worked for years from IND before. They can work again. There's lots of foreign investment from East Asia in central Indiana. A stop in SFO between NRT and IND? I must be dreaming.
boilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2356 times:
I don't know why UA doesn't service DEN mainline from IND. CO services IAH with mainline service, and I'd expect DEN to be able to sustain at least one mainline 757 or A319 a day. SFO also would be a good UA addition, but with their DEN service it's not as necessary.
When I fly UA to IND, I almost always try and book the flight that goes through ORD because I don't really like spending 3 hours on a RJ from DEN to IND. I'm looking forward to seeing if the merger will mean additional choices when flying from LAX and SFO (maybe LAX-IAH-IND as opposed to LAX-DEN-IND).
lv From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1810 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2264 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 17): In a related point of interest, SAN has been mentioned quite a bit lately as a high priority destination by the IND folks. Wouldn't be a bad fit for either DL or WN if you ask me!
And both cities have a decent sized presence pharmaceutical/ medical research industries
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15): I don't think IND-BNA is a totally crazy idea, but the combination of less O&D than a route like CMH-BNA (because it's shorter) and fewer sensible connections than IND-STL will make it hard for it to work
I was tossing this idea around in my head. When the WN/FL merger was first announced I thought BNA would be the big loser in all of this because why use BNA as a connecting point when you have ATL just down the road. Then I realized there is a finite amount of gate space at ATL and with this move, along with adding markets like CHS, GSP and ECP, WN is going to get a bigger name throughout the southeast... so you can use BNA for connecting traffic while using ATL for higher yielding routes... what does this have to do with IND you ask? Well you could use IND-BNA to connect to JAX, MSY, ECP, CHS, etc. as WN builds it's brand in the southeast.
EMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 635 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2082 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 17): about new and expanded air service in Indianapolis, especially to key West Coast markets,” adds
Marsha Stone, IAA’s chief financial officer.
Well, let's see:
Former NW flights from IND that have since been dropped include:
SFO
SEA
PHX
LAS (is this still operating?)
DEN
DFW
AUS
MCI
STL
PHL
BDL
RDU
RSW
MCO
TPA
FLL
As far as the upgauging of some flights, that was already announced awhile back...namely that anything over 750 miles was going to get at least a CRJ700 because all aircraft of that size and larger have/will have an F cabin. Hence, IND-BOS was upgraded...and although it wasn't as long, IND-LGA got upgraded too (also to compete with FL, who flies 717s). IND-JFK used to be CRJ900s on OH...might that come back?
As far as bringing back some of the old stuff listed above, I would probably say PHL stands a good chance (either of DL coming back or WN putting their metal on the route). Since NW left, US has had this route all to themselves and have started charging appropriately.
SEA would be a great opportunity (at least seasonally) for DL, especially with the focus operation...alternatively, I could see AS coming in on a codeshare as they have shown interest in markets like MSP and STL.
SFO would also be a good choice for DL, though now with the combined UA/CO I don't know if DL would want to risk a flight that would not get much feed at the SFO end...and I think UA has to keep IND all Express for a certain number of years now due to contractual obligations with its rampers in IND (correct me if I'm wrong).
SAN also seems like a great choice, especially as it's one of the top 25 O&D markets from IND that doesn't have nonstop service.
As far as WN, my guess is on PHL as the new destination from IND...as I said earlier, lots of business travelers, and US has had it all to themselves since NW left, so it would make sense...
Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
FWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3172 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1811 times:
Quoting EMB170 (Reply 22): LAS (is this still operating?)
DL dropped IND-LAS earlier this year. It was 3x/week only toward the end.
Quoting EMB170 (Reply 22): As far as bringing back some of the old stuff listed above, I would probably say PHL stands a good chance (either of DL coming back or WN putting their metal on the route). Since NW left, US has had this route all to themselves and have started charging appropriately
Interesting. So much for the "IND always means cheap fares" and the "US is an LCC" mindset. DL to me is more likely than WN, as WN has pulled back slightly in PHL due to US's price pressure, but who knows
These seem like no-brainer PMNW routes for DL to bring back, as WN is merging with FL, and several of these routes are served by both. I could also see IND-FLL and possibly IND-RSW served by NK as long as they don't think IND's costs have been too high as they have been in the past.
Quoting EMB170 (Reply 22): I think UA has to keep IND all Express for a certain number of years now due to contractual obligations with its rampers in IND (correct me if I'm wrong).
Interesting if true. How does this affect the integration of UA/CO ops at IND, as CO flies mainline 737s to IND in addition to ERJs? And are the plans for UA to move from Concourse B to Concourse A in with CO (more space), or for CO to move from A to B with UA (closer to US)? They'll have to do something.
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1666 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
Yes - but what connecting purpose would going straight south serve?
This...
Quoting lv (Reply 20): Well you could use IND-BNA to connect to JAX, MSY, ECP, CHS, etc. as WN builds it's brand in the southeast.
as well as FLL, RSW, and HOU. These are all cities WN doesn't serve from IND.
They could slap in a stop at BNA on an IND-MCO flight or a stop at IND on a MDW-BNA flight... that way, WN can fill some of those seats with thru-pax.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15): less O&D than a route like CMH-BNA (because it's shorter)
Shorter doesn't necessarily mean less O&D. Now, I seem to remember a website people used to reference on here where you could easily look up avg fares and avg daily pax, but now I can't seem to find it.... anybody have an idea what I'm talking about? Of course, this wouldn't account for the people who now drive because there is no nonstop, but would consider flying. Still, I would like to see those numbers.
25 ERJ170: Delta flies RDU-IND 2x daily and it has never dropped since NW instituted the flight..
26 ScottB: Why would you want to fly to NRT via SFO? It's over an hour shorter to fly via ORD or MSP, and nearly an hour shorter via DTW. It's probably MIA, act
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