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CDG Departures En-route Fuel Divs Begin  
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7359 posts, RR: 14
Posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16256 times:
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AF306 & TS711 have both dropped into MAN for fuel, and I gatther an AF 77W went to LHR. This despite the authorties saying there's no problem with fuel supplies.

Did notice that AF1168 to MAN is cancelled as well as BE7206 for tomorrow.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineoneworld77 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16159 times:

Interesting. I wonder how they are prioritising the stopovers and cancellations?

I'm surprised that the far-east flights haven't dropped and topped anywhere.



Flown - EI;BA;RE;FR;WW;TW;TS;US;JP;JT;AT;QF;JQ;VB;NC;TR;D7;AA;IB;AF;SN;LX;SR;LH;AY;CX;CP;9K;9W;IX;AI;IC;EK;EY;GF;QR;BE;N
User currently offlineNAS738 From Norway, joined Aug 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15962 times:

From what I read in Norwegian news papers, the French authorities have told all carriers to cancel 30% of their total flights to France. Not only Paris, as the strike is supposed to escalate tomorrow and include ATC in some way. They've also said that if carriers does not comply they will do it for them.

User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1825 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15605 times:

Quoting david_itl (Thread starter):
This despite the authorties saying there's no problem with fuel supplies.

there is no pb of fuel supply at CDG. It's the people fueling the A/C who went on strike today   


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15491 times:

So this would be why I saw an AF 332 land at BCN earlier and just park up by T2 without receiving any medical attendance or firetrucks. Must be one of the African or South American flights dropping in for extra fuel.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15273 times:

The reports I've seen today are emphasizing that the French request for service reduction has more to do with possible ATC or wildcat fueler strikes, or protesters at airports, than a shortage of jet fuel right now. There are recommendations that international flights presume they may not be able to refuel in France and either have enough fuel on arrival to make it to their destination or plan on a refueling stop en route, but that could have as much to do with airport fuel worker strikes as an actual fuel shortage.

Apparently the fuel shortage is hitting motor fuel worse, with about 1/3rd of shopping centre stations (which sell about 60% of France's car fuel, according to the Telegraph) either completely dry or out of either gasoline or diesel at this point.

If international flights start topping up before arrival in France or en route, is there a possibility of spot shortages elsewhere? I'd think that these contingency plans will be spread out enough to make that unlikely, but there could be problems elsewhere in Europe - with France's refining capacity pretty much off-line, the rest of Europe will have to pick up the slack...I have no idea if the rest of Europe has excess refining capacity available.

Just to add a little more stress, Eurostar workers in Belgium went on a 24-hour strike and disrupted London-Brussels service, although London-Paris Eurostar service is unaffected as of now.


User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1825 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14975 times:

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 5):
Just to add a little more stress, Eurostar workers in Belgium went on a 24-hour strike and disrupted London-Brussels service, although London-Paris Eurostar service is unaffected as of now.

Yes and you can also add no Thalys trains today between both Paris & London to Brussels due to a strike in Belgium


User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14600 times:

Quoting goldorak (Reply 6):
Yes and you can also add no Thalys trains today between both Paris & London to Brussels due to a strike in Belgium

There was a national strike with the Belgian Railways (NMBS/SNCB) today, no trains drove out today (ok, maybe a few) which let to problems on the highways today. The strike of the railroad was stopped tonight at 22h00CET so as of tonight.tommorow everything should run normal.


User currently offlinesoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14430 times:

AF218 CDG – Mumbai 777-200ER, refuel stop Mulhouse
AF306 CDG – Seattle A330-200, refuel stop Manchester
AF344 CDG – Montreal 777-300ER, refuel stop London Heathrow
AF804 CDG – Cotonou A340-300, refuel stop Barcelona
AF896 CDG – Brazzaville A330-200, refuel stop Barcelona
AF946 CDG – Douala 777-200ER, refuel stop Madrid
AF1504 CDG – Rome A321, refuel stop Paris Beauvais
AF1590 CDG – Istanbul A321, refuel stop Geneva
AF1624 CDG – Lisbon A321, refuel stop Barcelona
AF1890 CDG – Istanbul A320, refuel stop Strasbourg
AF2046 CDG – Warsaw A318, refuel stop Paris Beauvais
AF2244 CDG – Moscow Sheremetyevo A320, refuel stop Dusseldorf
AF2374 CDG – Oslo A320, refuel stop Dusseldorf
AF2378 CDG – Naples A321, refuel stop Naples
AF2496 CDG – Casablanca A320, refuel stop Limoges
AF2552 CDG – Kiev A319, refuel stop Prague
AF2698 CDG – St. Petersburg A318, refuel stop Copenhagen
AF3008 CDG – Malabo A319LR, refuel stop Tunis



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineiahflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13939 times:

Quoting soups (Reply 8):
AF2378 CDG – Naples A321, refuel stop Naples

So did the plane land and then take-off again just to return?



Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3902 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13874 times:
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Normal fuel delivery (by pipeline) resumed for both ORY and CDG over the week-end. My understanding is there's enough fuel to go around but there aren't enough refuellers.

Fuel-wise, the most critical airport is NTE. It is fed by tanker trucks, not a pipeline, and ran out, briefly, on Friday, causing the cancellation of a few flights. Deliveries have resumed, but the airport isn't getting enough to rebuild its reserves, I am told, so any further disruption in deliveries could cause the airport's fuel farm to run out again.

Tuesday's going to be hellish, however. Everyone and their brother on strike, and quite likely several choke points set up by protesters on the various airport access roads.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12791 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13412 times:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, the main issue of the strike is raising the retirement age from 60 to 62? Please note I'm asking.

Quoting NAS738 (Reply 2):
They've also said that if carriers does not comply they will do it for them.

Ugh oh... That is a quick way to cut business and force further concessions upon the work force...
I understand people are frustrated, but France risks having its bond rating cut...

Quoting goldorak (Reply 3):
It's the people fueling the A/C who went on strike today

Thanks for that info.

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 5):
If international flights start topping up before arrival in France or en route, is there a possibility of spot shortages elsewhere?

Possibly, but most should be able to handle any surge for a few days.

I have quite a few coworkers on vacation in France right now... they'll have an interesting tale to tell when they return.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4080 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13322 times:

Several times recently, AA121 from Paris to JFK (a 757) has dropped into Bangor, Maine. Not sure if this is connected to the same issue, though.

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12781 times:

I posted on another topic the other day about CDG running out of fuel, is it gone ?

Quoting soups (Reply 8):
AF218 CDG – Mumbai 777-200ER, refuel stop Mulhouse

Is it common traffic there ? (apart from cargo planes and smaller PAX ones).

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
Correct me if I'm wrong, the main issue of the strike is raising the retirement age from 60 to 62? Please note I'm asking.

There are several issues, it's difficult to know which one is the "main". For starters 60/62 is an age at which you can retire, but depending on you career you can end up with a big discount on your pension, so in practice there is another age, 65, where you have a full pension no matter what. This age is also changed to 67, so for people who didn't work all their life (because of long education, unemployment, raising kids, long illness, etc.), that's the new limit.

Then, each corporation and each person has its own reasons on top of it, for the oil industry closure of refineries, for ATC change to the European ATC, for 70% of the population, they don't like Sarkozy, for young people, fear of unemployment, etc.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12660 times:

Business as usual in France I see , it must get really boring seeing everyone else in Europe have absurdly mundane days, if only we knew what we were missing perhaps? lol

I do admire the fact that the French stand up for what they believe in, we are less inclined to protest here. I just wish it didn't cause so much inconvenience, I got caught up in the strikes last month but was accomodated to an acceptable standard (KLM safety net). The government must wake up every day thinking who can we piss off today, or schedule in their policy announcements to even out the disruption over the course of the month/year. I wish they could just do it all in a particular month (February), the rest of Europe and the world would at least have some consistency 



Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12526 times:

Well, around now is usually high in protests, because while everybody is on the beach in July/August, the government tries to pass the most controversial bills, so in September/October it backfires.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12370 times:

But what about foreign carriers ? Obviously the likes of SQ, CX, TG, UL must refuel. So is CDG saving fuel for foreign carriers or what ? If not, where are the refuel stops ?


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11441 times:

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 16):
So is CDG saving fuel for foreign carriers or what ? If not, where are the refuel stops

Carriers with "substantial" operations into France (read European carriers and possibly some American carriers) have been asked directly by the French government to cut flight by 30%. On top of this, all carriers have been warned that even if they get to their destination, they may not be able to get back off the ground because of fresh airport ground strikes, atc strikes and petrol driver strikes. One of my good industry friend has told me that some carriers are mulling diverting flights to GVA, BRU, LUX and even FRA and anywhere else they can, and arranging bus service from there so that they don't risk having planes stuck on the ground



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7401 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9491 times:

Once again, there is no problem of fuel supply a CDG. The pipeline serving CDG (and ORY) with fuel was reopened about 2 days ago.

The problem here is caused by a strike of the employees of the fuel companies in charge of refueling the a/c at CDG.


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9386 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
Correct me if I'm wrong, the main issue of the strike is raising the retirement age from 60 to 62?

From 60 to 62 in case you have already worked 41 years at that time. Otherwise you will have some deductions from your pension. Standard retirement age (regardless of working time) is planned to increase from 65 to 67 years.



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9368 times:

I'm surprised to see flights take off from CDG to land into BVA for refueling, that's just 32nm.

Also, why is Air France not taking advantage of the other airlines in Skyteam?

I would expect to see northbound (Scandinavia, and US/Canada) traffic landing into AMS for refueling instead of MAN/LHR/DUS/CPH. Seems like southbound traffic (South America, Africa) are landing into BCN/MAD where Air Europa may have ground staff and lower fuel prices agreed.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8674 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 20):
Also, why is Air France not taking advantage of the other airlines in Skyteam?

How would they take advantage of other Skyteam carriers, all airlines will be having some sort of problem heading into and out of France.


User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7996 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 21):
How would they take advantage of other Skyteam carriers, all airlines will be having some sort of problem heading into and out of France.

By refueling their planes in Amsterdam for example instead of Manchester, London, Beauvais, Copenhagen.


User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7359 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7981 times:
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Quoting downtown273 (Reply 20):
I would expect to see northbound (Scandinavia, and US/Canada) traffic landing into AMS

Isn't AMS restriced in total movements allowed? It's not like these are weather/medical/tech diversions which I would hope wouldn't be part of any quota but are being planned with flightplans filed as CDG-wherever-ultimate destination.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8162 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Well, around now is usually high in protests, because while everybody is on the beach in July/August, the government tries to pass the most controversial bills, so in September/October it backfires.

Maybe the solution is to reduce vacation time then so someone is watching the government in July/August 
Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 19):
From 60 to 62 in case you have already worked 41 years at that time. Otherwise you will have some deductions from your pension. Standard retirement age (regardless of working time) is planned to increase from 65 to 67 years.

Which is more than acceptable since people are living longer. These strikes are just ignorant. If you live longer you either retire later or receive less. It's simple math. The french want to have their cake and eat it too. Wouldn't that be nice  


25 fca767 : Why would they need extra fuel anyways? Surely they have enough to get to paris? and if they're fueling for the next longhaul flight then wouldn't th
26 Post contains links david_itl : It might be that wherever that aircraft was refulled on it's previous sector, there was enough uplifted to operate CDG-BCN with reserves and so able
27 bonusonus : So it looks like these flights are stopping to refuel at nearby airports while outbound from CDG. Does this mean that planes are leaving the other end
28 blueflyer : Le Monde had an interesting article saying that a moral contract between the French citizenry and its political class was broken, hence the protests.
29 RoseFlyer : Quoting lhr380 (Reply 21): How would they take advantage of other Skyteam carriers, all airlines will be having some sort of problem heading into and
30 Aesma : 32nm can be enough to overfly a strike or a road block ! It entirely depends of how much money is put on the pension budget. Quite a lot of money is
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