Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Question About AA And TLV  
User currently offlineomerlich From Israel, joined Oct 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Hey all,
Just wondering why didn't AA continue TW 's line to TLV?
It seems that DL and CO are quite happy with this line with high loads...
.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7508 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3768 times:

Quoting omerlich (Thread starter):
Just wondering why didn't AA continue TW 's line to TLV?

I think it has something to do with oweing TW employees in TLV ,and their aircraft would be seized if they landed there.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineomerlich From Israel, joined Oct 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

thought so too..
they sold the only assets (the TW building),and ran from the country.
what AA did to the TW employees here is ugly..
if i remember correctly the court ordered a fine but AA didn't bother showing up to court.
yet why to begin with did they do it?

[Edited 2010-10-18 12:53:54]

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3644 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting omerlich (Reply 2):
thought so too..
they sold the only assets (the TW building),and ran from the country.
what AA did to the TW employees here is ugly..
if i remember correctly the court ordered a fine but AA didn't bother showing up to court.
yet why to begin with did they do it?

[E

Apparently when TW was merged into AA, American decided to close TLV and when they did, TW ground staff was not paid. I have a feeling we'll never see AA in TLV.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Quoting omerlich (Reply 2):
what AA did to the TW employees here is ugly..
Quoting laca773 (Reply 3):
Apparently when TW was merged into AA, American decided to close TLV and when they did, TW ground staff was not paid. I have a feeling we'll never see AA in TLV.



Wow, what a nasty thing to do. What was the big deal with just paying the people what was due to them and settling whatever debt to the govt/airport that was left? Truly, American did a number on TWA and their employees worldwide (including hard working Americans right here in the US of A.)



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 669 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3415 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
American did a number on TWA and their employees worldwide (including hard working Americans right here in the US of A.)

Of course thats not the opinion among the majority of TWA employees that are currently employed and enjoying the benefits (a paycheck) of AA..

And lets not forget how wonderful TWA treated its own employees.....

AA ORD  stirthepot 

[Edited 2010-10-18 15:57:04]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8437 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3410 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting omerlich (Reply 2):
thought so too..
they sold the only assets (the TW building),and ran from the country.
what AA did to the TW employees here is ugly..
if i remember correctly the court ordered a fine but AA didn't bother showing up to court.
yet why to begin with did they do it

AS has been stated here many times AA purchased many TWA assets from Bankruptcy.

I feel badly for the people in Israel who were TWA employees, but was that money owed to them by TWA or AA ? Since AA has never flown to TLV why would AA have a liability ? Those employees were TWA people, their severance, pension, holiday pay is owed by the TWA estate in Bankruptcy.


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1182 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Yes AA bought TWA and in TLV most of the employees of TWA none were employed by AA had over 30 years of service and lots of them for a single daily flight something like 30-50 employees. By Israel law they were due huge amounts of money prob one of the reasons TWA never let some of them go and it was cheaper to keep them working the single daily flight than to pay them to quit. AA saw this and ran the other way when they bought TWA's assests yes the bought TWA nope no not close did they ever merge.

User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5700 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 7):
AA saw this and ran the other way when they bought TWA's assests yes the bought TWA nope no not close did they ever merge.

As stated above, TWA assets were bought, in bankruptcy, by AMR, Inc. When TWA filed, AA could basically pick and choose what they wanted, which wasn't a whole helluva lot.



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3209 times:

Quoting omerlich (Thread starter):
It seems that DL and CO are quite happy with this line with high loads...

Most flights to anywhere have high loads. Some airlines are approaching 90% loads which is generally considered to be the upper limit of what is possible. The real question is are the yields any good.

Is it correct that the bankruptcy courts in Israel did not recognize AA's selective purchase of TW assets under U.S. bankruptcy law?


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1606 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3077 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
I feel badly for the people in Israel who were TWA employees, but was that money owed to them by TWA or AA ? Since AA has never flown to TLV why would AA have a liability ? Those employees were TWA people, their severance, pension, holiday pay is owed by the TWA estate in Bankruptcy.
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 9):
Is it correct that the bankruptcy courts in Israel did not recognize AA's selective purchase of TW assets under U.S. bankruptcy law?

Someone with more info on the specifics can shed more light on the situation, but I believe AMR actually purchased TWA as a whole. I seem to remember a competing bid and that AMR actually had to increase its offer to get TWA. So, that would mean that AMR actually assumed controlled of TWA's entire operation and then discontinued or sold off the assets they didn't want. I do not think this was a case that they cherry picked the prime assets during a bankruptcy liquidation. I don't think it was a selective purchase, but rather selective in what they choose to continue to operate.

If the previous part is accurate, then that would mean that AA actually assumed control of the TWA assets and employees in TLV (which jives with another posters' account who mentioned AA sold a building in TLV). It also means that Israel is not disregarding U.S. bankruptcy law.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

Forgetting the TWA issue, I wonder how profitable JFK-TLV was for TW in those final years. Presumably if it was a goldmine AA would have found a way to continue it.

That being said, MIA-TLV is/should be destined for AA, even if they have to settle some back pay issues with the ex-TW employees first.


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1182 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

Well AA had a shell company buy TWA and run it under TWA,LLC or something like that and yes I think Delta put in a bid for TWA just so AA would have to spend more money buying it. Then the shell company sold it to AA that is how they got rid of TLV and Carl Ichon

User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1606 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 11):
Forgetting the TWA issue, I wonder how profitable JFK-TLV was for TW in those final years. Presumably if it was a goldmine AA would have found a way to continue it.

Im with you, if it was a gold mine AA wouldnt have been so quick to dump it.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 11):
That being said, MIA-TLV is/should be destined for AA, even if they have to settle some back pay issues with the ex-TW employees first.

I wouldnt hold my breath on that one. I remember hearing that they debt owed was several million dollars (like double digits) and considering the interest that would be owed on that debt after 10 years - I cant imagine that flight could perform well enough to recoup those loses.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 12):
I think Delta put in a bid for TWA just so AA would have to spend more money buying it.

I am almost certain Delta did not put in any bid for TWA. Not only do I not think they had any interest in TWA, I distinctly remember Delta's CEO, it was Leo Mullin at the time, lobbying for AA's purchase to be approved and approved quickly.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Question about AA F-100 and A300 Fleet posted Sun Jul 10 2005 17:43:36 by Fvyfireman
Interesting Article About STL And AA posted Tue Jul 15 2003 21:02:49 by MSYtristar
AA,LY And TLV posted Fri Aug 25 2000 00:43:56 by Blink182
Question About TAM And The Star Alliance posted Wed Apr 28 2010 16:27:45 by AirCanadaA330
AA And DL @ DCA posted Thu Apr 8 2010 16:27:59 by batboy
Question About AZ And AP Relationship posted Sun Apr 4 2010 13:03:26 by NWA330nut
AA's And United's DC-10s posted Wed Mar 31 2010 08:00:10 by B777UA
How About Southwest And Spirit Merger posted Sat Mar 13 2010 15:20:39 by wwtraveler99
AA And UA 777 Economy Cabins posted Mon Mar 8 2010 12:29:09 by BALHRWWCC
AA And Their 763s posted Sun Jan 10 2010 14:10:17 by USAirALB