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VA 77W Incident Leaves Passengers Stranded In USA  
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14416 times:

According the the ABC following an incident that resulted in damage to the aircraft passengers were due to fly on, several people have been getting conflicting stories about how and when they're going to be heading home.
It is reported that passengers were told by V Australia that they were booked on another carrier, only to be told by the other carrier that no booking existed.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14007 times:

Sounds like a case for Conde Naste's Ombudsman.

If true, clearly V Australia needs to learn some customer service. But as usual, I expect there are some inaccuracies and exaggerations to this lady's story...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13967 times:

Interesting.

Do V Australia as a "low cost" international airline have the facility to rebook onto other carriers under an Invol Basis, just like I would be able to do at my airline should there be a problem. I would be very surprised at a carrier such as V Australia advising their customers they are rebooked onto other airlines and these bookings not having been made.

I look forward to seeing what other news come out of this situation.


User currently offlineCamohe From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13422 times:

Please note that V Australia is NOT a low cost airline. It is a full service airline.

User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13360 times:

Depending on the experience of the agents doing the re-booking,and assuming it was an airport handled scenario,it's not uncommon for a reservation to show a confirmed booking on another carrier in this type of situation,only to find out the other carrier was unable to confirm the space in their system. Without going into too much detail,a good agent will backup their work with a phone call to the other carrier if there's any doubt.

User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12436 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 1):
But as usual, I expect there are some inaccuracies and exaggerations to this lady's story...

Interesting, though, that V Australia did not return ABC's several calls to clarify the situation. That implicates guilt on their part.

Confusing as well: Wouldn't it cost more money for V Australia to keep so many people in hotels for so long, rather than just get them on some other carrier's plane?



I come in peace
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11443 times:

hahahaha who was the other airline?? Just because they make theoretical bookings doesn't mean that the other airline has to accept them if for example there is only a short time prior to flight closeout, or if it is going to cause them a delay of some kind.

It's normal procedure to talk with the airline concerned directly to ascertain
1) How many seats are available onboard their flight/flights
2) How payment will be settled (some airlines are happy to endorse tickets/others are cash only)
3) Whether or not their flight is on time/delayed (There's no point booking if the other flight is also delayed drastically)

Once this has been done then you then tell the passengers. I suspect the problem was an inexperienced staff member who promised something they shouldn't have promised without knowing the facts first.

'You're not booked. V Australia haven't booked you on this flight'," she said.

The other thing that springs to mind is that the passenger turned up for the FJ flight when she was actually rebooked on the NZ flight and either misinformed or misunderstood the information. Sometimes airlines even book passengers on both flights and then cancel based on who turns up and maybe they cancelled the wrong one.... There's limitless possibilities really..


User currently offlineSuper80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11330 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 2):
Do V Australia as a "low cost" international airline have the facility to rebook onto other carriers under an Invol Basis, just like I would be able to do at my airline should there be a problem. I would be very surprised at a carrier such as V Australia advising their customers they are rebooked onto other airlines and these bookings not having been made.

I think ABC is just making it such a big deal. As 9252fly said, it happens often when IROP airline's reservation shows confirmed and the protecting carriers do not have the booking. I am not sure how many ticketing agreement V Australia has with other carriers, at least I know they could have re-booked the pax onto Delta.

And also, some airlines would go ahead and honor the ticket (as long as they have e-tkt agreement and seats left) even if the booking was not made or transfered to the protecting carriers . Its not like the protecting carriers can't make their own reservations and use the etkt from the other carriers as long as the ticket is endorsed correctly such as INVOL IATA 735D or SIPP 120.20 and take control of the flight coupons.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9958 times:

Quoting Super80 (Reply 7):
s 9252fly said, it happens often when IROP airline's reservation shows confirmed and the protecting carriers do not have the booking

I know that can happen. I always follow up with a call to the other carrier if its close to departure to double check i have not oversold the other flight and the booking has gone through. Even if it is in the system somewhere, there would always, or should always be a ticket that has been reissued for the new flight. This does not seem to have happened from what news we have about it.

Quoting Super80 (Reply 7):
I am not sure how many ticketing agreement V Australia has with other carriers

That would be interesting to know? Anyone able to give us this info?

Quoting Super80 (Reply 7):
And also, some airlines would go ahead and honor the ticket (as long as they have e-tkt agreement and seats left) even if the booking was not made or transfered to the protecting carriers . Its not like the protecting carriers can't make their own reservations and use the etkt from the other carriers as long as the ticket is endorsed correctly such as INVOL IATA 735D

Good old 735D, I know it well.


User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

Airlines reservations systems allow an airline to "freesell" another carrier. Basically, airline "A" (the carrier affected by the delay) protectds the passenger by booking airline "B" in airline A's system. The way the freesell agreement works is that the booking airline (A) will report the sale to the other airline (B). Airline "B" has a time window (usually 24 hours) in which they can reject the sale. This will occur because the availability display in airline A's system is not in sync with the actual availability, or because the other airline has an oversell factor in their availability. As 925fly and Super80 alluded to, the proper procedure is to either book directly with the other airline by calling their res office, or book it in their system and call the other airline to ensure they have received the file in their system. Not doing so will often cause the above problem....airline A thinks the space is confirmed, but in actuality airline B never confirmed the space because their flight is full.

User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7981 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 5):
Interesting, though, that V Australia did not return ABC's several calls to clarify the situation. That implicates guilt on their part.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Reporters will frequently call at inopportune times, on purpose, so that, in their right mind, they can state that they made a call, only to have it not returned.

This happened to the agency I work for, a reporter, on the West Coast, called one of our West Coast offices about a story that had emotions running high. She stated that calls made to XXXX were not returned. She failed to state that she called the office at 10PM on a Friday night.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 9):
Airlines reservations systems allow an airline to "freesell" another carrier. Basically, airline "A" (the carrier affected by the delay) protectds the passenger by booking airline "B" in airline A's system. The way the freesell agreement works is that the booking airline (A) will report the sale to the other airline (B). Airline "B" has a time window (usually 24 hours) in which they can reject the sale. This will occur because the availability display in airline A's system is not in sync with the actual availability, or because the other airline has an oversell factor in their availability. As 925fly and Super80 alluded to, the proper procedure is to either book directly with the other airline by calling their res office, or book it in their system and call the other airline to ensure they have received the file in their system. Not doing so will often cause the above problem....airline A thinks the space is confirmed, but in actuality airline B never confirmed the space because their flight is full.

One thing I have found from other airlines booking onto my carrier is that they have not done the ticketing (And yes its the same for other carriers where we have not done it sometimes)

Calls have to be made to sort this out, or if really really busy the passengers would have to go back to the airline..


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9731 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

Are there any photos of the damage to the aircraft?

A388


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7582 times:

As my thread was deleted I repeat it here:

The 77W was substantially damaged, and the incident is now officially called as an "accident".

http://avherald.com/h?article=43266276&opt=0

Appalling and certainly not good for the reputation of V Australia is that the passengers might be stuck at LA for 10 days, which must be a kind of negative record for a place like the US. I´d be seriously annoyed and would definitely strike that airline from my list.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7463 times:

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 10):
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 5):
Interesting, though, that V Australia did not return ABC's several calls to clarify the situation. That implicates guilt on their part.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Reporters will frequently call at inopportune times, on purpose, so that, in their right mind, they can state that they made a call, only to have it not returned.


How many people does V Australian have at LAX?

In 1988 an LTU TriStar was struck by a catering truck. The trucks safety rails holed the fuselage in two locations just forward of the left wing. There was also damage to the electrical and hydraulic systems. Repair was to take several weeks.

There were will over 300 passengers that had to be re-booked on other carriers, put up in hotels, provided meal vouchers, etc. Since LTU had a total of one (1) employee at JFK she was too busy taking care of the passengers to talk to the local news!


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
How many people does V Australian have at LAX?

Virtually zero.

Like most foreign airlines, things are contracted out to a vendor. Irregular operations can throw the best airlines in messy jumble.

The bad part for many of these passengers is the last week or so flights to Australia have been virtually full, with airlines even having denied boardings on several occasions. I heard UA was routing its own passengers up to SFO to catch its flights from there.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

First off, nobody is going to be stuck in LAX for 10 days... re-route via QF/UA/DL/NZ/FJ or via HNL. Isn't this the second damaged VA 773 @ LAX in 3 months???

User currently offlinezkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

ouch! that has got to hurt the wallet pretty hard!

for those of you that don't know LAX very well, its terminals and gates are very close together as it was designed before the days of 747s. Basically it means that any heavy has to shut down engines and be towed in to the gate (unlike most other airports). This incident happened without pax onboard as it was being towed over from another stand.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6285 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 5):
Interesting, though, that V Australia did not return ABC's several calls to clarify the situation. That implicates guilt on their part.
Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 10):
I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Reporters will frequently call at inopportune times, on purpose, so that, in their right mind, they can state that they made a call, only to have it not returned.

This happened to the agency I work for, a reporter, on the West Coast, called one of our West Coast offices about a story that had emotions running high. She stated that calls made to XXXX were not returned. She failed to state that she called the office at 10PM on a Friday night.

While I find that is a reasonable enough comment in respect of an agent's office, I think it is a little different when dealing with a long-haul international airline. V Australia by nature of it's business is presumably a 24 hour operation, it is also relatively high profile. I am surprised therefore that there is not an on-call media officer available to answer media questions even if it only a case of stalling them.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6209 times:

Quoting Quokka (Thread starter):
It is reported that passengers were told by V Australia that they were booked on another carrier, only to be told by the other carrier that no booking existed.

If that is worth a story, happend to me so often that as example BA booked me into an AA flight, and AA told me they only can put me on the standby list, with all passengers who booked with them directly at priority...


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Anyway, the incident is now over and VH-VPD is back in service now, having flown to HKT today.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 4):
Depending on the experience of the agents doing the re-booking,and assuming it was an airport handled scenario,it's not uncommon for a reservation to show a confirmed booking on another carrier in this type of situation,only to find out the other carrier was unable to confirm the space in their system.

I had that experience during the NW-DL merger, being rebooked from a NW flight (missed due to late inbound NW flight) to a DL flight (next flight). I was in fact on waiting list in the DL system but NW told me that i was "all set". All set to wait clearly I was.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

Quoting zkpilot (Reply 17):
for those of you that don't know LAX very well, its terminals and gates are very close together as it was designed before the days of 747s. Basically it means that any heavy has to shut down engines and be towed in to the gate (unlike most other airports). This incident happened without pax onboard as it was being towed over from another stand.

The incident happened at the hangars, nothing to do with, nor close to a terminal.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinezkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5283 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

The incident happened at the hangars, nothing to do with, nor close to a terminal.

....as it was being towed to the gate...



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting zkpilot (Reply 23):
....as it was being towed to the gate...

Sure, how is it supposed to get to the gate otherwise?

But accident had zero do with any terminal facility layout as you implied. Accident happened at the hangars when the aircraft hit a hangar wall.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 anstar : Id be suieng the ground handlers or getting a new one given they have had 2 similar incidents in 3 months.
26 LAXtoATL : I'm sure that their reservations offices are open 24 hours by nature of its business, but to think their corporate staff would operate on a 24 basis
27 LAXtoATL : Likely no reason to sue, the ground handlers liability insurance would cover the cost of repair and lost revenue. Now if they have experienced 2 simi
28 JDFlyVC10 : AH.... But you must take this ONE STEP FORWARD, and what people don't know. On Saturday night FJ took a ton of those VA psgrs. About an hour before th
29 The777Man : Because of severe weight reswtictions and full loads, UA had denied boardings and no space to accomodate VA passengers.. Most UA passengers were rout
30 eta unknown : Obviously not if FJ tried to take a bunch of affected pax on their SAT flight. I read on another site UA was offering volunteers $800+hotel+meals to
31 sunrisevalley : Probably because the fares are too low. The carriers yield model has let them down!
32 474218 : If V Australian would have had an accident or incident, they, like any other airline, would have set their 24 hour public relations network in action
33 The777Man : I guess VA has a better relationship with FJ than UA. UA may have booked a few people on FJ on a day or two. Weight restrictions was bad for UA for a
34 EDICHC : Obviously I can't speak for V Australia, as I know nothing about their corporate structure. But I do know that at least when my father worked for EI
35 LAXtoATL : Yes on-call, but not in the office (the company can call them in but a reporter would not have their home number). If a reporter calls the PR departm
36 ZuluAlpha : There is with QF at media relations officer on call 24/7
37 EDICHC : Appreciate that but if you phone my employer and ask for PR dept you are directed straight to the on-call media officer. There is no need for them to
38 mattdell : Looks like someone should have ordered that 777 folding wing option.
39 laca773 : For their departures, doesn't VA utilize gate 35 or 37?
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