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Boeing 777-200 BCF To Be Started In 2011?  
User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14059 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...7bcf-launch-customer-in-early.html


That sounds very promising.

Let the speculation start. Who will be among the first airlines?


- Fedex
- UPS
- LH Cargo
- Emirates


It will be intersting to see how the BCF will compete against the A330-300P2F.

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14026 times:

You beat me to it !
FedEx, I believe, as suggested in an earlier thread.



The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13933 times:

I will add Singapore Airlines Cargo to that list.

KC Sim


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9952 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13932 times:

I can see FedEx, UPS and Lufthansa Cargo using converted 777's but not Emirates Cargo. They seem to prefer newly build aircraft and are basing their future requirements around the 777-200LRF and 747-800F.

A388


User currently onlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13804 times:

Quoting 328JET (Thread starter):
- Emirates

Probably not. However, it's a good solution for EK to get rid of their non-ER 772's.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13754 times:
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FX is assured, though at the moment they are taking large numbers of new-build 777 Freighters, so they might be a "later" rather than "sooner" customer.

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13666 times:

I´m surprised its starting so soon. This will certainly cost Boeing many possible 777F orders.

There will be plenty of 777s available for conversion, though. The undesirable non-ERs of China Southern, CX, BA, Emirates being the first. As pax-airlcraft those aging planes didnt find buyers despite some being up for sale since two years and more, as possible BCFs they might be snapped up by Fedex for domestic and regional routes now served by MD10s.

Fedex is the most logical client for the BCF. They have 50-something MD10Fs and MD-11Fs to replace over the next decade.
UPS at a later stage to replace the MD-11Fs and some 763Fs.
Almost all operators of DC-10/MD-11/A300/763, 777Fs and 742Fs could be interested in 777BCFs, like Centurion, Aeroflot, World Airways, Martinair, Shanghai, Tradewinds, China Cargo, Cargo Italia, Ethiopian, Cielos, LAN, DHL... Maybe even ABX. Add some passenger airlines which have a dedicated cargo arm and aging 777s, like China Southern or Egyptair.

I dont think LH would go for used 777BCFs. LH isnt exactly the airline for secondhand planes. Even for their DHL partnership company Aerologic they went for new planes. That they aquired a few used MD11Fs was only because there werent any newbuilds anymore. In any case I hope LH orders the 748F in the future, but 777Fs would be perfect MD11 replacements past 2015 as well.
Emirates? I doubt so, but some BCFs for minor and shorter routes are possible.
SQ? They always buy new. I think they´ll finally go for some 748Fs and possibly 777Fs for thinner routes in the future.

Quoting 328JET (Thread starter):
It will be intersting to see how the BCF will compete against the A330-300P2F.

Did I miss something here? And if, why not a A340-300P2F?


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13629 times:

Fedex, UPS - Yes. And lots of 777 for them.

Highly likely as a replacement for DC/MD10 (FX) and for some MD11-Routes (UPS+FX). And some other DC10-carrier as well.

LH Cargo, Emirates, SQ Cargo - No.

The 777BCF will have much less range than the factory 777F which is the better replacement for the MD11 on (very) long flights (i.e. transpacific routes). I don't see that LH Cargo will buy any second hand freighters, I bet they will go with the 777F, depending on decisions about further nighttime curfew at FRA.


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13594 times:

I don't think that the 777BCF will cost any factory 777F orders. They are different airplanes, like DC10 vs. MD11.

User currently onlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13593 times:

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 7):
Highly likely as a replacement for DC/MD10 (FX)

Exactly what I was thinking, the 772 BCF will be perfect for domestic flights.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 7):
And some other DC10-carrier as well.

Maybe some airlines from Africa and South America, like Avient and Cielos Airlines?



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13509 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 6):
I´m surprised its starting so soon. This will certainly cost Boeing many possible 777F orders.

I expect Boeing would not be offering it if they felt it would negatively impact 777 Freighter sales. Also note that Boeing wanted to launch the program this year, but even with dirt-cheap 777-200s on the market available for conversion, nobody was buying.

The 777 Freighter is also just a stronger performer. It will lift ~22 tons more payload than the 77EBCF and ~36t more than the 772BCF. Range with maximum payload is also 1650km greater than the 77EBCF and 4400km greater than the 772BCF.

At best, the 772BCF will be a regional freighter. It lacks the range of the DC/MD-10-30 so it can't be used for intercontinental ops. For FX, I could see it being used within North America to move freight between ANC and IND/MEM, between MNL to PVG in Asia, and around Europe to/from CDG since it would offer pallet interlining with the 777F and 77EBCF fleets. The 77EBCF would be used for PVG-ANC and CDG-IND/MEM with the 77F offering non-stop service from PVG to IND/MEM.

Quoting 328JET (Thread starter):
It will be intersting to see how the BCF will compete against the A330-300P2F.

The 77EBCF would offer identical range to the A330-200F with 17t more payload and 33% more volume. The A332F would be structurally lighter and the Trent 700s have excellent SFC.

Quoting na (Reply 6):
Did I miss something here? And if, why not a A340-300P2F?

Airbus has not given a range figure for an A340-300P2F, but their payload projections are about 70t, which would be 12t below the 77EBCF. The 77EBCF would also offer about 10% more volume and lower fuel burn.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13466 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Airbus has not given a range figure for an A340-300P2F, but their payload projections are about 70t, which would be 12t below the 77EBCF. The 77EBCF would also offer about 10% more volume and lower fuel burn.

Thanks for the info. I meant A343F vs. A333F though, not so much vs. 777BCF. There is a A332F, so I think a A343F could make more sense than a A333F because of much higher range.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
I expect Boeing would not be offering it if they felt it would negatively impact 777 Freighter sales.

Well, Boeing has no choice than doing it themselves or let others do the business. The main reason for yes or no wont be potentially negative sales effects on the 777F, it would be many clients vs. a negligable number off clients.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6903 posts, RR: 77
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

Quoting na (Reply 6):
The undesirable non-ERs of China Southern, CX, BA, Emirates being the first. As pax-airlcraft those aging planes didnt find buyers despite some being up for sale since two years and more, as possible BCFs they might be snapped up by Fedex for domestic and regional routes now served by MD10s.

If these planes were "undesirable", they would be stored in the desert, next to older 763s, 744s, A343s etc. Just because certain carriers offered them for sale two years ago doesn't mean anything today. Times have changed.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
The 777 Freighter is also just a stronger performer. It will lift ~22 tons more payload than the 77EBCF and ~36t more than the 772BCF. Range with maximum payload is also 1650km greater than the 77EBCF and 4400km greater than the 772BCF.

Well said, the 777F is a class of its own.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4120 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13388 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
FX is assured, though at the moment they are taking large numbers of new-build 777 Freighters, so they might be a "later" rather than "sooner" customer.

FedEx will take them as fast as they come. If converted freighters become available, look for FedEx to take on both new and converted planes in.

Quoting na (Reply 6):
Almost all operators of DC-10/MD-11/A300/763, 777Fs and 742Fs

Southern is one of the largest 742F operators left, and they are reportedly very happy with the two 777Fs they are flying for Thai. If the price is right, I'd expect them being one of the first 777BCF customers.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13364 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 11):
I meant A343F vs. A333F though

Airbus' estimate for volume for the A333(P2)F and A343(P2)F is 570m3. A333P2F payload would be between 50-60t and a dedicated new-build A333F would be 60-65t. A343P2F payload is estimated at around 70t.

Quoting na (Reply 11):
Well, Boeing has no choice than doing it themselves or let others do the business.

The only other real contender for 777 conversions would be Bedek Aviation Group / Israeli Aircraft Industries and right now they are pursuing Airbus A330 and A340 P2F conversions so it looks like Boeing's offering will be the only one available for some time.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12852 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13330 times:

The article says:

Quote:

Kramer says data so far shows the 777-200ERBCF coming in at a payload of about 81,646kg (180,000lbs) and a range of about 4,000nm.

Wiki says:

Quote:

With a maximum payload of 226,000 lb (103,000 kg), cargo capacity is similar to the 243,000 lb (110,000 kg) of the 747-200F. The freighter has a range of 4,885 nautical miles (9,047 km) at maximum payload.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777F#777_Freighter

So the 77F has 23,000 lb more max payload and 885 nm more range at max payload.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
FX is assured, though at the moment they are taking large numbers of new-build 777 Freighters, so they might be a "later" rather than "sooner" customer.

I think later, for replacement of regional lifters.

Quoting na (Reply 6):
I�m surprised its starting so soon. This will certainly cost Boeing many possible 777F orders.

Not really. The only ones buying 777Fs are the ones who really need its max range and max payload. You can make an argument that 777BCF will be more of a worry for A332F, depending on how each end up being priced.

Quoting na (Reply 6):
There will be plenty of 777s available for conversion, though. The undesirable non-ERs of China Southern, CX, BA, Emirates being the first.

The article says customer interest is directed towards the -200ER, not the -200.

I think the -200 will be just as unloved as a freigher as it is as a pax plane, and there just aren't a large enough pool of -200s to justify the work to come out with the BCF package yet.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 8):
I don't think that the 777BCF will cost any factory 777F orders. They are different airplanes, like DC10 vs. MD11.

  

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):

The 777 Freighter is also just a stronger performer. It will lift ~22 tons more payload than the 77EBCF and ~36t more than the 772BCF. Range with maximum payload is also 1650km greater than the 77EBCF and 4400km greater than the 772BCF.

Oops, you already had the info, as well as the info for the 772BCF, which I don't think will get much interest.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
At best, the 772BCF will be a regional freighter.

  

The article points out:

Quote:

For the 777-200, Kramer says availability is limited as there were only 88 aircraft produced, two of which have already been parted out. Of the remaining 86, he says 52 are not in play as they are currently operated by United, All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines. United has no intentions of replacing its 777-200s while ANA and JAL operate their 777-200s domestically, which makes them unattractive for conversion given their high cycles.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13223 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 13):
Southern is one of the largest 742F operators left, and they are reportedly very happy with the two 777Fs they are flying for Thai. If the price is right, I'd expect them being one of the first 777BCF customers.

How could I forget Southern in my list. Southern though is also very happy with their ever incrasing 742F fleet, they recently said they want to buy even more. When it comes to replace the 742s past 2015 I see them being a hot candidate for both 744BCFs and 777BCFs.

Quote "For the 777-200, Kramer says availability is limited as there were only 88 aircraft produced, two of which have already been parted out."
I know of one (ex-Varig), so which is the second?

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 12):
If these planes were "undesirable", they would be stored in the desert, next to older 763s, 744s, A343s etc. Just because certain carriers offered them for sale two years ago doesn't mean anything today. Times have changed.

Sure, times have changed. But the fact that no one wanted to buy them certainly played a major role in deciding to keep them.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
I think the -200 will be just as unloved as a freigher as it is as a pax plane, and there just aren't a large enough pool of -200s to justify the work to come out with the BCF package yet.

Given that half them are flying shorthaul in Asia you´re right. JALs and ANAs high-cycled 772s will have near-zero chance for conversion when they are due to be retired in a not too distant future. Thats what the Boeing guy says also.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9952 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13043 times:

Quoting na (Reply 6):
LH isnt exactly the airline for secondhand planes.

I remember reading in the past that some of LH Cargo's MD11 are converted freighters, isn't that correct?

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 7):
The 777BCF will have much less range than the factory 777F which is the better replacement for the MD11 on (very) long flights (i.e. transpacific routes).
Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
The 777 Freighter is also just a stronger performer. It will lift ~22 tons more payload than the 77EBCF and ~36t more than the 772BCF. Range with maximum payload is also 1650km greater than the 77EBCF and 4400km greater than the 772BCF.

Good points I wasn't aware of that. That would give the 777BCF a crucial disadvantage. One thing we mustn't forget is that the aircraft's range isn't always important to cargo airlines. I know several cargo airlines who fly from South America to Europe and make a fuel stop along the way because they prefer to take more cargo and sacrifice the range by refueling along the way which is still a better option than flying nonstop. The airport's altitudes in Ecuador and Colombia also play a part in this but even with that in mind I think those cargo aircraft can make it nonstop but not at full payload, hence the reason why they opt to go for a fuel stop to carry more cargo.

A388


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12938 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
I remember reading in the past that some of LH Cargo's MD11 are converted freighters, isn't that correct?

Correct. They bought a few ex-Alitalia planes. But as I said, used because there were no new ones anymore.

May I repeat my question from above: whats the second 777 that has been scrapped according to the article?


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1431 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12928 times:

The latest B777F coming off the assembly line is beating Boeing max. payload projections quite nicely. Originally advertised as a 103 ton freighter, it is actually capable of lifting 106.5. With a bit more tweaking 107 tons is certainly a possibility. As such, the difference between a 777F and a 772BCF is around 26 tons, which is rather a lot I'm sure you'll all agree.

The B772BCF has a payload around that of a DC10-30, and around 14 tons less than a MD-11F. But, it's around 10 tons more than an A332F, while offering a lot more of that (to us) all important volume.

Our lot will shortly be having a very close look at the kite, and like the vast majority of other customers we're also interested in the -200ER for conversion. Am off to Seattle in the not too distant future to meet with the Boeing sales and production guys, to get more detailed information about the numbers and delievery dates. Might end up taking a handful, perhaps in exchange for the outstanding order on B767-300ERF we are holding, an aircraft we've found out doesn't quite work for us.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinencfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12857 times:

Quoting na (Reply 18):
whats the second 777 that has been scrapped according to the article?

The second 777 to be scrapped was the BA aircraft that crashed at LHR. This was an ER model, so I believe only one A model has been scrapped.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12773 times:

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 20):
The second 777 to be scrapped was the BA aircraft that crashed at LHR.

That 772ER was a crash victim indeed.
Ok, could be listed as "just" scrapped, in the eyes of a Boeing manager. In a honest statistic it of cause appears as written off.
The BA 772 didnt come to my mind when I read that article. Mr. Kramer said two 772 non-ERs were scrapped, not a 772ER. Maybe its just his error, or there is another 772 scrapped which hasnt been reported here.


User currently offlineN471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1583 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12751 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 21):
The BA 772 didnt come to my mind when I read that article. Mr. Kramer said two 772 non-ERs were scrapped, not a 772ER. Maybe its just his error, or there is another 772 scrapped which hasnt been reported here.

No only two have been scrapped with one of those two technically a w/o


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7522 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 12500 times:

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 8):
I don't think that the 777BCF will cost any factory 777F orders. They are different airplanes, like DC10 vs. MD11.

Exactly,remember the 77F is based on the 777LR,whereas the BCF is based on a domestic 'A' model and ERBC is on the 'ER". I have not heard about the proposed A340-300 conversions,though. I doubt those would be very successful.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7022 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 12477 times:

Quoting N471wn (Reply 22):
No only two have been scrapped with one of those two technically a w/o

When the first ex-Varig 772 was scrapped I read on this forum that there were two planes in the same general condition from Varig, and that they both were likely to be scrapped. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, what happened to the other one? Is it flying again, or just sitting somewhere?
As to the 777BCF vs. 777F question, they are the same plane only in external dimensions. The 777F carries much more weight much farther, and, more importantly, can only be had new. Boeing will not hesitate to offer conversions for several reasons. First, if they don't then someone else will. Second, customers who want new planes will still buy new planes, and those that are looking for conversions generally cannot afford new ones. Third, it is to Boeing's advantage to keep their planes flying, as that keeps the value of used planes up, which helps them sell new planes. Happy customers are ones who get support for their planes, and can sell them for good prices when they no longer want them. Having a freighter conversion program helps greatly in maintaining their value.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
25 coopdogyo : I think Southern is currently looking for new build 777F's as well as 744F's. Due to the fact that you can't fill up a 777BCF if the loading is more t
26 Post contains images lightsaber : I thought FedEx buying 777BCF's was a done deal... did I miss something? The thread I was looking for seems to have been deleted... You make a good po
27 coopdogyo : The current availability and cost of the a 777 along with the high cost of the conversion makes the entire process of acquiring a 777BCF very expensiv
28 328JET : It is very interesting to see, that the two main conversion programs (B777 and A333) will be started nearly at the same time: A lot of competition whi
29 Post contains images tom355uk : Why not? I believe the A343 would make an very good freighter, especially to replace MD10's and 11's. Look at the facts: A343 passenger typical OEW 1
30 Burkhard : I would put Air Bridge Cargo onto the list of potential operators, not LH itself, and also not Aerologic.
31 LAXintl : Wonder what the floor loading limitation will be? I know in discussions about a year ago it came up the 777 passenger floor weight bearing is rather l
32 328JET : I expect Lufthansa to use the Austrian Airlines B77Es, which are already in the group as a first step to replace their MD11s.
33 Revelation : Good point. In FedEx we see the 77F being used for time critical long haul US-Asia and US-EU trunk routes. The cost in time and money when one of tho
34 na : Fedex is so desparate they even recalled DC-10 ln.-no.6 from the desert! Thats a 40 year old plane.
35 fxramper : Part of the contract with FX and Boeing for the 77F was that Boeing develop a P2F. Unfortunately, there was so stipulation on price. Something about
36 wrenchon727 : [quote=na,reply=34]Fedex is so desparate they even recalled DC-10 ln.-no.6 from the desert! Thats a 40 year old plane. FedEx does not have any DC10 in
37 Revelation : Very interesting. I wonder if Boeing knew this would be an issue when they designed the 777-200 and chose to optimize the pax plane at the expense of
38 na : I know, but 40 years ago it was built as a DC-10. Same plane, just a few buttons changed. [quote=wrenchon727,reply=36They also picked up some more MD
39 wrenchon727 : Boeing and FedEx have been working on a PtoF mod for the 777, The last power point presentation showed them using the same procedures for the floor as
40 trex8 : Didn't the DC8-70s have the same problem??
41 fxramper : Absolutely. The gurus think of this stuff decades in advance. Wet lease from World.[Edited 2010-10-20 06:57:48]
42 coopdogyo : I was under the impression that Boeing was planning on putting a 777F floor into any converted planes. So the floor of the plane will be as capable a
43 fxramper : There was talk about replacing the pax barrel with a freight barrel but there entails the high cost of conversion. Will be interesting to see who Boe
44 wrenchon727 : One is the old Finnair A/C c/n 48753 and the four old Transmile 48444,48446,48485,48486 that are in rough shape right now. 48753 is in SIN and will b
45 Post contains images Hamlet69 : I don't think we need to read any mal-intent into it. However, at the time, Boeing did certainly make a big deal out of using CFRP for the floor of t
46 Post contains images Stitch : The 777-200's values continue to fall. A 1995 delivery is worth a bit more than $20 million with a 1999 delivery worth a bit less than $28 million. 7
47 328JET : I do not think that the forward pitch of converted A333s is a real issue. The fuselage is longer as the A332F-fuselage and therefore the pitch is les
48 jonathan-l : I think the mindset is changing. With yields under pressure (increased competition from new entrants, modal competition...) and increasing fuel price
49 Post contains images Hamlet69 : At the risk of taking this thread slightly OT: The problem, again IMO, is the A332F is "too good" for the market it is trying to be in. In the region
50 Post contains images fxramper : It's definitely being considered at this point in time. Another 7 figure estimate to get the deck angle level for loading on a conversion. From what
51 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Oh, and don't get me wrong - they'd be stupid not to. However, my point is that, again just IMO, once the detailed analysis is complete, it won't be
52 328JET : I think the A332 offers some things, both the A300 and B767 do not offer: - range - volume - same cockpit and type rating with the coming A333P2F and
53 Post contains images Hamlet69 : I never said it did not offer more range. It most certainly does. However, if you re-read my post, that was not my point. What my point was is that,
54 jonathan-l : Partly because until the A330-200F, those were the only aircraft on offer: 90-115 tonnes one-size-fits-all. There was no other choice. The golden yea
55 Post contains images 328JET : What? Pls check the figures again... I know that most of the A332F sales are for leasing companies, which was the reason for my statement:
56 Burkhard : The 772F combines large volume with a large pay load, so is suitable for heavy cargo. The 777A based BCF-if not almost rebuilt from scratch, would hav
57 328JET : I really hope that Boeing is offering a BCF of the -300 (Non ER) in the next coming years. THAT would be a great low density parcel freighter.
58 fxramper : At this point, that is the monetary figure on the table. I'm of the opinion that a ptf program for the 777 will not affect sales of the 777F so it's
59 SEPilot : Are there enough -300's out there to make it worth while developing a conversion for it? As it would have to be certified separately I think the cost
60 Stitch : Both the A330-200F and 767-300F can take 96x125" pallets along the length of their main deck. The A330-200F can also take four pallets in each of the
61 SEPilot : Was this the deposit money from the A380, or was it from some other order? If it was from the A380 I think they could get it back, unless it in turn
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