BI To Switch Order From 77L To 77W — Civil Aviation Forum

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BI To Switch Order From 77L To 77W

KFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1208 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9624 times:

As per http://www.777fleetpage.com/, Royal Brunei has just switched their 777 order from 77L to 77W. Can anybody confirm this ?
It should be noted that this is an unidentified order.

The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last

WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

The777Man, whose site you reference had noted in another earlier thread - that in Boeing's September-end database update the 4 x 77L UFO order from 03-Jan-2007 (which many people in-the-know have said is for Royal Brunei) was switched to 4 x 77Ws. So, yes, IMHO it is as confirmed as it gets - even if the customer remains unidentified !

The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.

eta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8985 times:

I think the RBA 787 lease deal might be dead in the water- the 4 aircraft were to be leased from LCAL, but that leasing company has cancelled the majority of their orders, so maybe RBA was affected and went for the 777.

The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6088 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8708 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 2):
I think the RBA 787 lease deal might be dead in the water- the 4 aircraft were to be leased from LCAL, but that leasing company has cancelled the majority of their orders, so maybe RBA was affected and went for the 777.

That may be so but the fact remains that a UFO order was booked on 3Jan07 and is for Royal Brunei. There were no 787s figuring in with this particular order.

A bit strange that they have switched to 77Ws; more wanted if BI will not operate them themselves ?

Information is from Boeing's Order and Deliveres website.

The777Man

Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....GA, T5, CI and LX 777s

eta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8358 times:

I've since checked the dates and the unidentified 777 order was placed before LCAL decided to cancel most of their 787 order, so the two are not connected. With BI, nobody really knows until the planes land in BWN!!!

behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4447 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Why would BI want a larger B 77W in its fleet? None of its currently operated routes have demand warranting the B 77W where as with the B 77L they could operate nonstop from their hub base to virtually anywhere incl North America without any payload restriction

NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8329 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 3):
A bit strange that they have switched to 77Ws

Maybe they can see extra capacity after taking onboard their 772s. And after seeing what EK can do with their 77Ws (DXB-SYD/MEL/BNE), I'm under the impression that BI are able to do what they want to do with the 77W and utilise the extra space.

It's all about the destination AND the journey.

eta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

Above is correct- the only way a 773 (LHR?) would work with RBA is if 772's (AKL/BNE/MEL/PER) were providing feed.

MillwallSean From Brunei, joined Apr 2008, 1115 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8035 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 3):

That may be so but the fact remains that a UFO order was booked on 3Jan07 and is for Royal Brunei.

Its almost four years since that UFO order and its been said for a long time that this is for BI.
Deferred indefinite perhaps...

Interesting to see what will come, nothing is final until the sultan and his close advisor's says so and a plane is in BWN, no matter what announcements that are made and what knowledge anyone of us have. BI is interesting and full of surprises.

But both new 787 and 777 for their tiny long haul fleet?
Somehow I don't see that happening and knowing the financial advisor's of the sultan and their knowledge I doubt it will happen no matter what the airlines management says.

After all BI with 777, BI with 787 have been said so many times but no matter what plans and how far they have gone the controller have said stop a lot of times when the deals haven't made any financial sense.

The financial controllers that bankroll BI (BI is lossmaking) will do this again if necessary.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 6):
I'm under the impression that BI are able to do what they want to do with the 77W and utilise the extra space.

Utilise the extra space sounds lovely but lets slow this down. They cant fill half of the space they have right now. Do they really want extra space now?

Perth, Brisbane and Auckland are not profitable and through traffic to London is basement fares with by far the lowest yield in the market. BI needs to reduce its losses on the London route by a stopover in the gulf.
BI is half price compared to all their Asian carriers from its SE Asian cities to Australia/NZ.
A return ticket is now selling for RM1600 incl. tax to Aus/NZ from these cities. Thats 530 Aussie dollar or 700 NZ dollar. But the agents and travel reps have been told better campaigns are coming.
Thats not sustainable.

The 777 is a great plane but buying it new at the costs that would incur would be a colossal waste of money for BI.

So far BI have gone about replacing the 767 fleet in a smart way. Sure the 777 is to large for them but it was the most economical solution to be had and a fast modernisation and a smart option to lease the planes from SQ.
Good start and a swift turnover form the 767 to the 777 when it finally happened.

No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.

kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11958 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

I guess the fundamental issue facing them is that Brunei is a very small market and no matter what way you look at it, it cannot sustain a fleet of four 777s.

I didn't know BI was as cheap as that; I know it has quite a good reputation among travellers, so I might try it next time I am travelling to DXB.

Personally, I agree that the 77W would be madness.

Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21507 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
I didn't know BI was as cheap as that; I know it has quite a good reputation among travellers, so I might try it next time I am travelling to DXB.

No "dry" carriers (no alcohol) have ever been successful at attracting significant numbers of 6th freedom passengers at profitable yields.

RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3937 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 3):
That may be so but the fact remains that a UFO order was booked on 3Jan07 and is for Royal Brunei

Are you sure you haven't got your wires crossed with another company Lars....

WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

Hi RobK,

It has been a widely held belief on A.Net that the 3-Jan-07 order of 4 77Ls (now 77Ws) was for Royal Brunei.

I can't remember anyone hinting that this belief was incorrect....

...until your post above.

So, with bated breath, I ask:

Have we been barking up the wrong tree in thinking that the 3-Jan-07 4x77L order was for Royal Brunei?

The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.

RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3937 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Where does this "widely held belief" that they are for Royal Brunei originate from though? Source?

The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6088 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2877 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 11):

Are you sure you haven't got your wires crossed with another company Lars....

It has been widely reported here AND I have had the order verified by a Boeing employee who had access to the Firing Order and Boeing orders. Last nformation I have is about two years old but at that time, BI was supposed to take delivery of their first direct ordered 777s in Jun 2012.

The order was recently changed to 77W but the order date remains the same so I don't think customer has changed but I guess that's possible. What info do you have RobK? You have very good contacts.

The777Man

Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....GA, T5, CI and LX 777s

Fauzi From Brunei, joined Jul 2005, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

Interesting... Well I'm sure this is just a coincidence but about two weeks ago I heard a team of executives from BI made their way to Seattle for a few days, and I am certain they had meetings with Boeing. I've got no word on what it was about though.

IF this is true, doesn't the delivery date makes sense? I'm pretty sure the SQ birds will only be around for 2-3 years, so I'm guessing the first bird to leave will be in June 2012.

But then again, I don't know for certain.

BI - The Asian Underdog

LondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
No "dry" carriers (no alcohol) have ever been successful at attracting significant numbers of 6th freedom passengers at profitable yields.

BI is not totally "dry." I believe cabin staff will allow pax to bring onboard their own drinks when purchased in the duty-free shops. Certainly I understand that's the case on the long-haul flights. I don't know about the situation for BI's regional flights.

The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6088 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting Fauzi (Reply 15):
IF this is true, doesn't the delivery date makes sense? I'm pretty sure the SQ birds will only be around for 2-3 years, so I'm guessing the first bird to leave will be in June 2012.

I wouldn't focus too much attention to June 2012 now; that information is about two years old and now with the change of model, the delivery of he first 777 built for BI probably has changed again.

The777Man

Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....GA, T5, CI and LX 777s

eta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Quoting Fauzi (Reply 15):
Interesting... Well I'm sure this is just a coincidence but about two weeks ago I heard a team of executives from BI made their way to Seattle for a few days, and I am certain they had meetings with Boeing. I've got no word on what it was about though.

Well there's also a rumour about the babybuses being replaced with 738's... so who knows!

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