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Vietnam 777 Hits Air Pocket, 21 Injured Inc. Crew  
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11651 times:

From Reuters on Twitter
Vietnam Airilnes 777 from Hanoi to CDG has hit an airpocket. Of the 21 injured, 9 including 3 crew said to be treated for serious injuries near Paris

http://www.airlineindustryreview.com...7-hits-air-pocket-causing-injuries

[Edited 2010-10-20 03:14:00]


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11528 times:
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Air pockets are just scary. I feel lucky to say i've only ever experienced a minor one on approach to Omaha on a southwest flight some years ago, but it's just freaky when the airplane just drops out from under you like that. Anyway, I'm glad at least that everyone survived and hopefully they'll come out of the experience understanding that when the seatbelt sign comes on, pay attention to it!


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11262 times:

I was under the impression that air pockets don't actually exist? Anyway, it's a shame so many people were injured. I bet several of those injuries could have been prevented had the passengers been in their seats with their seatbelts fastened.

User currently onlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11085 times:
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Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 2):
I was under the impression that air pockets don't actually exist?

I don't think technically "air pockets" exist. It's simply a strong updraft or downdraft encountered by an aircraft inflight.


User currently offlinehka098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10826 times:

Right. They are usually downdrafts or updrafts of air.

http://education.arm.gov/nsdl/Library/glossary.shtml#downdraft


User currently offlinevietsky From Vietnam, joined Nov 2008, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9466 times:

From a local website news, nine people have to go to France hospital for further treatment (3 crews included) and 5 has been released this morning. They also has interviewed one of the passenger on board and here is the summary:

He said that it was happened only 2 hours after taking off from Hanoi. He described that after the meal service, all of sudden the plane dropped. Few people flied to the top, the oxygen mask opened, and luggage also flied everywhere. He thought the incident just happened only 5-10 seconds. After the incident, the captain asked whether any passengers is the doctor to treat some injure passenger.

My question is that normal to continue the remaining 10 hours fly to Paris, for such this incident, or you should land the airplane somewhere for emergency?

Thanks all
Vietsky


User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9355 times:

Quoting vietsky (Reply 5):
My question is that normal to continue the remaining 10 hours fly to Paris, for such this incident, or you should land the airplane somewhere for emergency?

I think as long as you're not bleeding profusely you're better off waiting the 10 hours in pain and going to a Paris hospital versus going to one in Vietnam or central Asia.


User currently offlinecmoltay From Turkey, joined Jun 2007, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8587 times:

Quoting vietsky (Reply 5):
My question is that normal to continue the remaining 10 hours fly to Paris, for such this incident, or you should land the airplane somewhere for emergency?

AvHerald reports the accident to have occurred 2,5 hrs. away from Paris over Russian airspace the worst injury being a broken nose...


User currently offlineyodobashi From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 237 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7294 times:

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 2):
I bet several of those injuries could have been prevented had the passengers been in their seats with their seatbelts fastened.

I'm guessing so too, given the disproportionate number of crew (who would inevitably be standing) that were seriously injured, versus the number of seriously injured passengers.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 1):
.... hopefully they'll come out of the experience understanding that when the seatbelt sign comes on, pay attention to it!

The problem is that such an occurence cannot be predicted and would only be covered by 'we recommend that when you are seated, you keep your seatbelt loosely fastened'. Chances are, the seatbelt sign wasn't even lit when this incident occurred.

There is however undoubtedly an issue over the use of belts. Something I noticed during a recent trip (involving 12 segments), is that some airlines appear to conveniently use the seatbelt sign to facilitate an unhindered cabin service. Also, most European airlines seem to switch off the seatbelt through around 10,000 ft (if of course flying conditions permit), whilst on U.S. airlines, the seatbelt sign remains illuminated until the flight has reached cruise altitude and often for some minutes thereafter.

I believe that prolonged and unnecessary use of the seatbelt sign dilutes its effectiveness, but when the sign is lit, passengers should be made to sit down. The number of times I see folks heading to the washroom when the seatbelt sign is lit, I almost pray for some moderate turbulence to teach the idiots a lesson!



"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

Quoting yodobashi (Reply 8):

The problem is that such an occurence cannot be predicted and would only be covered by 'we recommend that when you are seated, you keep your seatbelt loosely fastened'. Chances are, the seatbelt sign wasn't even lit when this incident occurred.

However, 2.5 hours from Paris, many passengers are going to be out of their seats brushing their teeth, using the lavs, etc. On a flight that long you can't just stay in your seat with your seatbelt fastened for the whole thing. At some point, you have to pee.

If you're unlucky enough to be one of those folks when the plane decides to suddenly descend while your body decides to try to continue in a straight line, then you are going to get thrown around.

It would suck to have it happen in mid-pee, though! Eww!


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1651 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

There is no such thing as an "air pocket". The term became a staple of crummy 1930s airplane movies to make flying seem terribly dangerous and the term is totally a Hollywood invention.

User currently offlinefca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1762 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6246 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
It would suck to have it happen in mid-pee, though! Eww!

Or Mid Other things


User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5866 times:

Nothing can be done about it but seating with seatbelt fastened.
The sign should be off and on.
Keeping in on all the time will make people paying no attention to the sign at all.


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Somebody emailed me stating that they were sorry to burst my bubble but that there was nothing called air pockets. I agree. And there is not any bubble I created. I only quoted exactly what Reuters had reported, and what the airline spokesman had stated.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineVietcolin From Vietnam, joined Sep 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Supprise me, does it require pilot to announce passengers back to their seat and fasten seat belt before they hit by air pocket?


If things don't go right, turn left!
User currently offlinepawsleykat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1978 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

Gosh, this sounds quite bad. This is why I always tell passengers to keep their seatbelts loosely fastened when they're sat down, among many other airlines and crew alike. It's not a nice feeling being caught in air-pockets or Clear Air. I've experienced clear air on the way to Malaga once. That was a little scary.

Quoting Vietcolin (Reply 14):
does it require pilot to announce passengers back to their seat and fasten seat belt before they hit by air pocket?

Pilots can't know when this sort of thing is going to happen. They can expect an area of air to be turbulent, but can't know for sure how bad it'll be until they're in it. They can however, switch the seatbelt sign on as soon as they're in it. But in this case, that would have been too late.

JG  



First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2501 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
It would suck to have it happen in mid-pee, though! Eww!

Funny, it almost happened to me last week while trying to squeeze in a pre-approach pee en route to DEN (which is always a bladder-tester anyway). Fortunately, my strategy to slightly bend my knees and hold onto the wall-mounted handle prevented me from losing my balance as we encounted some front-range rotors during descent. Accident averted (although my account doesn't sound nearly as bad as the event detailed in the OP)!

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 884 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

On the French site crashaérien.com, I have found the testimony of a passenger aboard this VN flight between Hanoi and Paris. Link in French: http://www.crash-aerien.aero/forum/p...de-vietnam-airlines-t16826-45.html

It's pretty scary and the safety procedures on VN seem strange in comparison with European carriers...

In summary he said:
" I was a passenger on that flight, and I would like to give an objective view of the facts. First, the incident occurred at the beginning of the flight (after about 2 hours) over Bangladesh, in my memories. We were in a very strong storm and the plane seemed to be struck by lightning continuously. We then suddenly lost altitude. I remember well that the sign "Fasten your seatbelt" was on, but no announcement has been made. On the other hand, unlike AF, with whom I made the round Paris - Hanoi, the crew was not attentive to the proper observance of the safety rules and the sign. In my opinion it is a serious breach of the company, because the phenomena of "air pocket" (in quotes) are well known and controlled in aviation. For passengers, it is enough to buckle. I note simply that the passengers having their seat belts as tight as possible were not affected, only by their neighbors who did not buckle and found themselves up to the ceiling (rather surreal scene) ...
Personally, I was very surprised that the captain decided not to divert its route. We continued the flight for nearly 10 hours! 23:45 local time to takeoff, incident around 2:30, landing in Paris at 7:20 am local time without being given any information in the meantime from the crew!!!..."


User currently offlinebluewhale18210 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 17):
the phenomena of "air pocket" (in quotes) are well known and controlled in aviation.

Yeah...it is. There's this powerful tool detecting and controlling "Air Pockets" (Clear Air Turbulance) called PIREPs. The source of those PIREPs are usually some unlucky chaps running into it then radios back to ATC...
Also the time of the passenger's account and the press release doesn't agree.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 17):
the crew was not attentive to the proper observance of the safety rules and the sign

If the TB is bad enough (severe or worse) the crew will immediately buckle down on their jump seats with an announcement only...if they are in mid service sometimes they will even abandon their carts and go buckle down, with the carts' brakes engaged, of course.

I take any passenger's account of horror stories with a grain of salt...hopefully with a good reason.



JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
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