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BA Willie Walsh Climb Down?  
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3051 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8668 times:

Reported on UK Channel 4 news tonight.

Appears that union will ballot staff over new terms including that Travel perks will be re-instated and also serniority will be re-instated


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8667 times:

You nearly gave me a heart attack.

You thread title makes it sound like WW was quitting!


User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8635 times:

Climb down over what? He has reinstated the perks plus seniority. Its the union that now need to get off their high horses, smell the coffee and do the right thing for their members, the company and BA customers


L1011 - P F M
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8522 times:

Quoting shankly (Reply 2):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2.../07/ba-strike-failure-willie-walsh

He remained adamant that travel concessions would remain unavailable for strikers.

 



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2175 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

Climb down.... I dont think so. The staff travel was small fry.


Brendan Barber
General Secretary TUC
Congress House
Great Russell Street
London
WC1B 3LS


15 October 2010


Dear Brendan

Offer to reach agreement

Further to your request during previous discussions and the subsequent new offer to reach agreement I want to be clear about the company’s position on travel concessions.

I am restoring the non contractual and discretionary ID90 travel discount facility with immediate effect, with a reset joining date of 21 October 2010 for those who took industrial action during March-June of this year.

I am pleased to confirm that I will recommend to the BA Main Board to reinstate remaining staff travel concessions under the following circumstances.

Acceptance and implementation of the agreement

Obviously the offer made today needs to be agreed and ratified by a ballot of all members and then implemented. All parts of the union, Unite, BASSA and Amicus, must recommend acceptance.

Behaviours

A key element of the agreement is the need for both parties to conduct industrial relations differently from today. Industrial relations in this business needs to be more positive, respectful, open and understanding to the needs of the company and its managers, as well as its employees.

In line with the spirit of the agreement, communications issued by Unite and its branches must be more balanced and measured than they have been. The company will continue to ensure that its communications are balanced and objective.

Union representatives need to work positively and in good faith with the company to resolve conduct, performance, attendance and grievance matters in a reasonable timescale and without undue delay.

Litigation

Unite will not directly or indirectly commence, continue to pursue, fund or otherwise support any litigation against the company arising in relation to it’s calls for strike action or the strike action which it’s members took in December 2009, and/or March, May and June 2010. Details of the specific claims are included in the letter dated 15th October between British Airways Legal Dept and OH Parsons acting on behalf of Unite.

On this basis, I will recommend to the BA Main Board to authorise the granting of the remaining non-contractual staff travel concessions to those crew who no longer enjoy the concessions as detailed below:-

Restoration at the beginning of the Staff Travel year 01 April 2013, for all non-contractual and discretionary service and status related travel facilities including free ticket eligibility and recognition of service in the operation of all tickets including the ID90 facility.

Finally, and as you know, I must be clear that whilst I intend to proceed on the basis set out in this letter, it is not a binding contract and nothing in it does, or is intended to, alter the non-contractual nature of staff travel concessions.

I hope you find this helpful and I look forward to the successful implementation of the agreement.

Yours sincerely

Willie Walsh
Chief Executive Officer


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8400 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
Appears that union will ballot staff over new terms including that Travel perks will be re-instated and also serniority will be re-instated

Staff travel will be re-installed with the date of 21st October for crew that went on strike if the deal is accepted. However origional joining dates will not come back until April 2013.


User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8304 times:

Quoting shankly (Reply 2):
Climb down over what? He has reinstated the perks plus seniority. Its the union that now need to get off their high horses, smell the coffee and do the right thing for their members, the company and BA customers

Couldn't have put it better myself!



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

The seniority will be reinstated in 2013 not now. Crew will have no seniority until then as far as staff travel is concerned.

User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8022 times:

I believe the previous BA offer included reinstatement of staff travel without seniority. So this is not really much of a climbown, not least when full reinstatement with seniority comes with a lot of strings attached.

User currently offlineDogBreath From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7523 times:

Hardly a climb down!!

This whole dispute (in the eyes of the union BASSA) was about the imposition of changes to working numbers onboard. Which meant the CSD taking up a working position. As most of the BASSA reps are CSD's they didn't take it easily, and unfortunately used their members as cannon fodder in this debacle.

The loss of staff travel was as a result of taking strike action, and not anything to do with the original dispute.

Here we are many many months later and the staff travel aspect has become the major sticking point to this sad and sorry mess. Kudos to Willy Walsh and his team as they've played a blinder and been one step ahead of the union all the way. A bit of smoke and mirrors really by making staff travel the headline act and in the meantime bringing in the reduction of cabin crew onboard and the introduction of New Fleet.

At the end of the day and when this is all over, the union members should take a long hard look at their BASSA reps and ask where did this all go wrong. IMO a complete sweepout of the head table would be a good place to start.



Truth, Honour, Loyalty
User currently offlinebevisisback From Netherlands, joined Oct 2009, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 6687 times:

Just to clarify - who has won here? Or are both parties loosers?

Its been a nightmare trying to keep track of what the cabin crew were striking for. Are they now back to where they were before the walkouts?

Cheers in advance.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3475 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5563 times:

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 10):
Just to clarify - who has won here? Or are both parties loosers?

Its been a nightmare trying to keep track of what the cabin crew were striking for. Are they now back to where they were before the walkouts?

Cheers in advance.





The union reps, wanted the reinstatement of the admin only CSD position on the 744 fleet.

The deal would appear to not only result in the permanant removal of this position, but BA have in the mean time introduced new fleet, with cabin crew on considerably lower salaries. This in itself would probably have resulted in a mass walkout if the original dispute hadn't been ongoing.

All that BA appear to be conceding is the return of staff travel to the strikers, with eventual return of seniority for it.

In addition some of the more hardline union reps have headed out of the door to oblivion.

Only one winner in the end - BA management.


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

I think it is no exaggeration to say that this year has been absolutely seismic in the history of industrial relations at BA and cabin crew management.

Even three years ago it would have been absolutely unthinkable that BA could introduce an entirely new and separate LHR fleet starting with a blank sheet of paper, with no union agreements on working practices nor any agreement on how the existing LHR fleets will operate in parallel.

It would also have been unthinkable that BA would have thousands of internal volunteers trained as volunteer cabin crew to step in whenever needed due to disruptions and strikes.

There has been a massive shift in the balance of power between BA and BASSA (which is what this dispute has really been about).

Recent (official) industrial disputes at BA have usually followed a familiar template of the union getting a strong mandate for a strike, calling strikes and then a compromise reached at the 11th hour. Willie Walsh broke that chain of events.

BASSA made a catastrophic error in underestimating its opponent, going straight for the nuclear option and not looking past the end of its own nose to see the bigger picture. Things will never be the same at BA again.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13046 posts, RR: 78
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 12):
It would also have been unthinkable that BA would have thousands of internal volunteers trained as volunteer cabin crew to step in whenever needed due to disruptions and strikes.

There has been a massive shift in the balance of power between BA and BASSA (which is what this dispute has really been about).

And that folks, is the whole crux of the matter.

BASSA/UNITE never seemed to predict this.

Interesting to note that ultra militant McCluskey, has a rival for the top job at UNITE once Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee retire, who has stated that UNITE effectively 'lost the strike months ago'.
Comparing it to the hit UK TV show from a few years back, Life On Mars.
Adding the point, that elsewhere, UNITE has helped (that is been cooperative) in negotiations to re-open a mothballed steelworks (in an area of high unemployment).
But barely a word in the press or media - contrast that positive with the massive negative PR of the BA strike.
(You can probably add in the reversal of a plan to axe two Jaguar/Landrover plants too).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...spute-like-life-on-mars?intcmp=239

[Edited 2010-10-21 12:41:25]

[Edited 2010-10-21 12:43:14]

User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4616 times:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11606220

"BA boss Willie Walsh had previously said that he would not reinstate the travel perks."



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

Is it a step down ? yes and no

Yes - Willie Wals has (understandbly) had to compromise; staff travel is being reinstated and (albeit in 2013) seniority will be returned - as far as I am aware I doubt he wanted this as the messge was always one of no perks. In adition to this synically he probably wanted to come out a clear top dog but this will not be the case.

No - As far as can be assertained the CSD will have to work in the cabin, the number of crew on the 747 will be reduced, New fleet is being introduced and ultimately - the strikes and negative press image may *touch wood* come to an end. Deep down, we all know the travel perks were not the main issue in the begining.

The longer term effects cannot be guessed at, but for now I would suggest Wille and BA management have on the whole been the winners...........for now atleast.
Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

How will this play out with other staff at the airline? Such as the ones on a pay freeze, no pay rises and ones who backed the airline by being volunteer cabin crew? And especially those cabin crew who did not strike as they knew the would lose the concessions for good

Especially as WW clearly stated that striking crew would not get their concessions back, yes it was not the main reason for the strike but surely other staff at the airline won't see this as such a great victory for the airline?

[Edited 2010-10-22 09:58:04]

User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

Quoting HeeBeeGB (Reply 16):
Especially as WW clearly stated that striking crew would not get their concessions back, yes it was not the main reason for the strike but surely other staff at the airline won't see this as such a great victory for the airline?

Even though he has agreed to give the travel concessions back:

- Its after at least 9 months of some crew having none.
- Crew will not receive their full entitlement til 2013
- And they savings the company wanted will still be achieved.

So its pretty much a win-win for BA


User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 4407 times:

Quoting bastew (Reply 17):

Yes agreed, for the company as a whole but I meant the impact on other staff within the airline?

2013 is only 2 years away


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

If WW has previously said no restoration of perks, then in theory it is a climb down.

But I suspect restoring staff travel (in part) is the lesser of two evils. Whatever the rights and wrongs of either side, both have to move on from this and the permanent withdrawal of staff travel would leave a permanent divide between strikers and non-strikers, which can be as bad for those cabin crew who supported the company as it is for those that lost staff travel.


User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

now, lets see if BASSA climb down. they are the ones that will seriously climb down.

User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 20):
now, lets see if BASSA climb down. they are the ones that will seriously climb down.

Well its not actually up to BASSA its up to it's members as they will be the ones voting to accept the proposal. So far the communications from BASSA have been very moderate I must say.

The timing of this proposal is interesting. A deal to re-instate staff travel just as the first court hearing regarding the removal of it as punishment for a legal strike was about to go to court. And a condition of the proposal is that all legal proceedings regarding the matter must be dropped. Perhaps the BA legal team were not so confident they would win the case and could potentially be liable for compensation.

My thoughts on this have not changed. I am not a BASSA member, and I still have my staff travel.

However, whatever ones thoughts on the ins and outs of this dispute (or any other companys/industrys) I do think it is wrong that in europe a company can punish a group of employees for taking part in legal industrial action. And I think the courts would have also.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13046 posts, RR: 78
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

Many, probably most, of the rest of BA (that is the majority), thought the loss of the perks well deserved.
There will be some unhappiness if they get them back, albeit much reduced.
But WW was once a union negotiator himself at Aer Lingus, he will know the tactic of if you want say a 5% pay-rise, you don't go in saying that, you'll end up with less.
You ask for say 10%, after negotiations inevitably ground is given on both sides, you stand a better a chance of getting your 5% though.

This has also been an exercise as squeezing out the most intransigent and militant, now quite a few have done this to themselves by flouting company rules on conduct such as harassment and bullying, vandalism of company and other staff's personal property, so getting themselves sacked.
They did these things with the legacy of getting away with it in the past all too often, usually on pain of industrial action threats.
Think they'll ever be able to replicate that again?

Power has shifted.
The once very high staff turnover of the crew scheduling unit, no longer is run as much for the social lives of some crew as ensuring crew are available for the operation.
The call for volunteer crew so far exceeded expectations, a large element of this will be retained.
That is a major shift of power, it takes the sting out of future industrial action.
It also illustrated, much more than any company PR ever could, the real feelings of the majority of BA staff towards crew militancy - the whole idea that in a recession some see themselves as (literally) above the effects on the business - way more staff wanted to volunteer than could either be trained or spared from their own departments.

This is not to crow or express any happiness about this whole dispute, it's cost the company a lot of money when it could least be afforded - though the savings sought in crew will soon make up for that, also the very real distress and worry to both striking and non striking crew.
If only UNITE/BASSA had been living in this century, if only BASSA were not so dysfunctional, if only McCluskey did not have one eye on leading the far from united UNITE.

WW has said from the start of his tenure that major changes, some delayed for far too long, were coming.
When this recession hit it was just not tenable for everyone else at BA to make sacrifices but not one branch.
This has caused a LOT of bad feeling throughout BA in the past.


User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 22):
Many, probably most, of the rest of BA (that is the majority), thought the loss of the perks well deserved.
There will be some unhappiness if they get them back, albeit much reduced.

Why would other employee groups be pi~~ed by this?? What, they should be cheering that their colleagues have been punished for taking part in lawful industrial action? What goes around comes around.

This is a very interesting article and well worth a read:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ay/27/will-europe-save-ba-strikers

Here is an important paragraph from it:

"If this is correct, BA's refusal to reinstate travel benefits could have two important consequences. First, and most obviously, the BA cabin crew may be able to seek compensation in Strasbourg for the losses they have suffered as a result of the company's conduct. This means that the taxpayer would end up having to pay for the company's actions. But second, it means that British law may have to be changed in line with the emerging body of case law to enable British workers to enforce their human rights in the British courts."

BA have made huge savings by their imposed changes to Cabin Crew T&C's.
They are on course to announcing half yearly profits of GBP60M.
The cost to return staff travel to employees is £0M.

Again, I am not a member of BASSA. I have kept my staff travel. But I find it outrageous that a blue chip UK company would punish workers for taking part in what is effectively their democratic right.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13046 posts, RR: 78
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Quoting bastew (Reply 23):
Why would other employee groups be pi~~ed by this?? What, they should be cheering that their colleagues have been punished for taking part in lawful industrial action? What goes around comes around.

Because, quite frankly, the rest are and have long been fed up with militant crew holding the rest of the airline to ransom.
'They had it coming' might be the best way of putting it.
Recession hits, the whole airline has to make sacrifices, then there is BASSA in their little world.

Try Strasbourg, another great use of union funds (that is the members contributions), after UNITE has seen large numbers of other BA staff leave UNITE for other unions in disgust, meaning fewer contributions of course.
Given that the staff travel is not contractual, is discretionary, I doubt their success, still it will give them something to do, after they lost what the strike was supposed to be about long ago.


25 flyfree727 : And now, the recession is ending, and airlines are expected to post record profits. US airlines have mostly been upgraded to "profitable" status by w
26 LHRFlyer : BA made two years of record losses. Without substantial efforts on part of all departments over the past couple of years, it is highly questionable w
27 LHRFlyer : You can turn it on its head, and say why should staff who have inflicted £150m of damage to BA continue to receive generous non-contractual (in the
28 Bennett123 : Concerning this staff travel issue. I doubt that the courts would have supported BASSA. If the concessions are non contractual, then surely the member
29 GDB : I'm talking about BA, we don't have Chapter 11 to fall back on (more than once for some US carriers), we got no help after 9/11 hit us. On the other
30 flyfree727 : Sure, lets compare like with like. I work for AA. After the JBA was signed/began Oct 1, AA announced they expected to see a 500+million/year (with an
31 Garpd : The first ballot was illegal and thrown out by the courts, just as an FYI. Don't make the cabin crew sound loke saints. They're not. Everyone else at
32 bastew : My thread was not arguing for or against the merits of the reasoning for Industrial action. What I was pointing out is that what BA has done is groupe
33 Bongodog1964 : BA shareholders have had a fairly miserable decade. The dividend was axed due to the poor financial position following 9/11. BA had embarked on a maj
34 aviationweek : Well that's technically true. He will cease to be a director of BA when he takes on his new role at International Airlines Group. Keith Williams will
35 GDB : Boondog has it right, who'd be a BA shareholder in the past decade? Also in my part of BA management has been culled, repeatedly, over the years. On c
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