moderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 503 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 41650 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
As the 787 flight-testing is progressing, it has been decided to start an official thread dedicated to the production of the 787. Please feel free to contribute in this thread with regards to all production-related discussions.
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MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4210 posts, RR: 36 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 41646 times:
OK, I will kick off this thread. As far as I know the following airframes are either flyable or complete or awaiting their engines, in line number order. (f/f = first flight, dd.mm.yy notation).
ln 1 - N787BA, ff 15.12.09, proto, RR engines
ln 2 - N787EX, ff 22.12.09
ln 3 - N787BX, ff 14.03.10
ln 4 - N7874, ff 24.02.10
ln 5 - N787FT, ff 16.06.10, first with GE engines
ln 6 - N787ZA, ff 14.10.10
ln 7 - ZA100, JA801A ANA, first production aircraft
ln 8 - ZA101, JA803A ANA
ln 9 - ZA102, JA802A ANA
ln 10 - ZA530, LAN AL
ln 11 - ZA103, JA804A ANA
ln 12 - ZA104, JA805A ANA
ln 13 - ZA105, JA806A ANA
ln 14 - ZA106, JA809A ANA
ln 15 - ZA107, JA810A ANA
ln 16 - ZA531, LAN AL
ln 17 - ZA150, RAM
ln 18 - ZA108, JA811A ANA
ln 19 - ZA151, RAM
ln 20 - ZA175, JA821J JAL
ln 21 - ZA176, JAL
ln 22 - ZA115, JA807A ANA
ln 23 - ZA177, JAL
ln 24 - ZA116, JA808A ANA
ln 25 - ZA230, VT-ANA Air India
ln 26 - ZA231, VT-ANB Air India
ln 27 - unknown
ln 28 - ZA232, VT-ANC Air India
ln 29 - ZA233, VT-AND Air India
ln 30 - ZA234, VT-ANE Air India
further allocations: ln 36, first for China Southern, 48 first for Ethiopian, 49 first for Continental/United, 57 first for Qatar, 139 proto '9 for Air New Zealand.
I hope my list compiled from online sources provoces some corrections or more inside information about the status of above aircraft and more allocations of higher line numbers.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
WarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 573 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 41187 times:
Mods: Thanks for starting this thread! Lots to discuss and it is very helpful for it to occur in a centralized forum.
The following link is to a Seattle Times article on the possibility of 787-9 horizontal stabilizer production coming back in-house. It is interesting to read that Boeing and Alenia are still sorting through problems on the production of the -8 tail. Additionally, the article mentions some of the tails on the 787 test birds required rework over and above the initial shimming problem.
WarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 573 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 40854 times:
Ahh, gotta like that new thread smell !!! Besides, MEA-707 is probably writing in his second or third language so I'm inclined to offer a lot of deference in word choice. I respect that he kicked off this thread with a solid post and hope we can move beyond the semantics to debating 787 production issues.
davs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 370 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 40249 times:
Damn, that's a lot of planes sitting around nearly ready for delivery. There could be 40+ in this condition by the initial delivery date. How long does it take for Boeing to get the engines on them and actually deliver them? If it's a relatively quick procedure, how many of these birds might we see delivered in 2011?
dynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 816 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 40167 times:
Quoting davs5032 (Reply 8): How long does it take for Boeing to get the engines on them and actually deliver them?
There is much more to do to complete these airplanes than putting the engines on. I'm sure I've seen photos of the 787s in storage with more missing than just engines, and I believe that almost all are missing interiors. Then there is going to be other change incorportion and refurbishment.
I'm not sure we can say that up to line 30 is "complete" yet either. I don't recall it having gone all the way through, but I can no longer access the chicken track charts to check. It used to be that anyone in Boeing could go to the internal site showing where airplanes are and when line moves are scheduled, but access seems to have beenrestricted now.
mdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 40021 times:
Quoting davs5032 (Reply 8): how many of these birds might we see delivered in 2011
There probably won't be any official guidance from the company until the 4th Qtr. earnings call in late January, a bit surprising there was nary a question along these lines from the analysts and media on Wednesday's 3rd Qtr. earnings call.
starrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 39675 times:
I can understand storing the "completed" aircraft sans engines. It also makes some sense not to install the interior fittings until any additional flight test bugs are worked out, but the real question to me is how long it would take to outfit 30+ widebodies for delivery in addition to outfitting the ones that you have on the assembly line.
Could we see 60+ 787 deliveries? As well as the 748 deliveries?
Could be a good year for Boeing unless we see more execution problems appear.
mdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 38774 times:
All Things 787 reports that production woes may be "resurfacing" (See: http://nyc787.blogspot.com/ ). BTW, whatever happened to the periodic 787 program updates (conference call) from BCA in addition to the regular quarterly earnings call from HQ (McNerney & Bell)?
Rheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1966 posts, RR: 52 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 38471 times:
Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 14): All Things 787 reports that production woes may be "resurfacing"
At some point there may be so many engineering changes in the pipeline (as a result of flight testing and "discoveries", both old and new), that it may be more economical to slow down or stop production.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28465 posts, RR: 84 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 38463 times:
Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15): At some point there may be so many engineering changes in the pipeline (as a result of flight testing and "discoveries", both old and new), that it may be more economical to slow down or stop production.
There have been at least two halts at the FAL to allow the suppliers to "catch up", but that might also be related to allowing the suppliers to address QC issues in their current production runs.
Coronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1090 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 38260 times:
Question once an airline decides on interiors, does there have to be additional testing on AVODS, power outlets, in one or more prototypes or early production a/c --does this add to the final certification time frame or is this something that can be simulated in parallel to the completion of the currently 'seatless' a/c? From the comments in the thread above it seems like no a/c in test flying yet have any interiors installed?
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
Well in other threads I have seen talk about when an airline is changing their interiors and adding Wifi, or installing a new AVOD system, or adding power outlets they usually have to fit out a prototype and fly it around for a while and submit testing results to FAA (or other regulatory agencies) before they can modify the rest of the fleet. So since no 787 is yet fully decked out with a final interior, when is this phase of the certification scheduled to take place and how long does such a process take in practice?
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
mdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 37718 times:
Quoting ER757 (Reply 21): They'll have to have one complete to do the evac test, won't they?
Quote: Boeing will be able to certificate initial versions of the 787 without running a passenger evacuation demonstration, by piggybacking existing approvals for the 767 and 777. However, the plan for the proposed 787-10 stretch has not been finalised....
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28465 posts, RR: 84 Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 37505 times:
Sounding more and more like Alenia is going to be given the boot (forgive the pun) as a supplier.
Boeing is mumbling about building the 787-9 horizontal stabilizer in Seattle and they might as well build the 787-8's there, as well.
And with Charleston already building Sections 47 and 48, I see no reason why Boeing cannot pull back production of Sections 44 and 46 from Alenia and build them in Charleston, as well. It would save the cost of shipping them to CHS for integration at the former Global Aeronautica facility.
25 NYC777: It's pretty much a sure thing that HTP production for the -9 will not go to Alenia. Boeing andd Alenia are contractually obligated for the HTP for th
26 WarpSpeed: What about the buy-out approach? Could be cleaner and less disruptive. Otherwise, Boeing will need the production capacity up and running smoothly be
27 kaitak744: Starting from which ln# will the 787 meet the original advertised weight? Last I remember it was around line 20?
28 tdscanuck: It doesn't impact type certification timeline...things like particular seats and IFE are certified all the time as add-ons to the basis type certific
29 dynamicsguy: The line 20 blockpoint changes weren't to meet a specific weight, although some of the changes included weight reduction. Rather the goal was to impr
30 kanban: this may be behind the transfer of the Developmental Center from Military to Commercial operations... not as a replacement but as an interim suppleme
31 NYC777: Here's the production list that I have compiled to LN 63: Aircraft (ZA and/or Line Number) Customer Engine ZY997 N/A N/A ZY998 N/A N/A ZA001/LN1/N787B
32 MCIGuy: I think we're talking about Boeing buying out the remainder of the contract with Alenia, not their buying the company.
33 kanban: when the 757 was pulled from Avco and Rockwell, it was by mutual agreement of non performance. We didn't buy out the contract... if it comes to leavi
34 mdword1959: Flightblogger has posted a fairly in-depth piece, "Inside the 787 delivery hold and horizontal stabilizer rework ." http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/
35 ER757: Sounds like a real mess. I concur with the first comment posted at the end on Jon's article. No need to re-state it here
36 MCIGuy: Yeah, it's Boeing's fault that their subcontractor can't build the sections they contracted for to spec , even after being made aware of the issue.
37 aerlingusa330: Does anyone know the status of the construction of the second Final Assembly Point facility in North Charleston? It was said to be done mid-spring 201
38 Stitch: I'd like to know if the workmanship issues are purely on Alenia and if this is something they kept hidden from Boeing. When they had issues with debo
39 WarpSpeed: A mess indeed, but the guidance from Boeing on the pause is that this will not alter the current delivery schedule. Whether you believe this is anothe
40 Stitch: The last PR statement was from April 5th of this year when they placed the first girder for the FAL building. They also are building a 787 interiors
41 NYC777: As fasr as I know it's still on schedule and in fact McNerney visited the SC site just this week. They on schedule to finish the building and install
42 WarpSpeed: Say what you will about the SC site, at least it remains on target for on time EIS! More like a lighting rod! At lease as an issue.
43 starrion: To meet the early part of the delivery schedule means having the first customer aircraft ready to go. Some of the completed and stored aircraft may e
44 dynamicsguy: On the internal Boeing news site they reported that they'd raised the final piece of the framework a few weeks ago.
45 mdword1959: Matt Cawby reports movement of ZA530 (L/N #10 LAN) and ZA108 (L/N #18 ANA) on the Everett ramp areas yesterday (See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/ for pho
46 parapente: It is stated above that aircraft 20 will fall within promised spec's and that will involve an increased MTOW.Have they published the final performance