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Official 787 Production Thread - Part 1  
User currently offlinemoderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 509 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 43135 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As the 787 flight-testing is progressing, it has been decided to start an official thread dedicated to the production of the 787. Please feel free to contribute in this thread with regards to all production-related discussions.

Enjoy the website!


The Forum Moderators


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
214 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 43131 times:

OK, I will kick off this thread. As far as I know the following airframes are either flyable or complete or awaiting their engines, in line number order. (f/f = first flight, dd.mm.yy notation).
ln 1 - N787BA, ff 15.12.09, proto, RR engines
ln 2 - N787EX, ff 22.12.09
ln 3 - N787BX, ff 14.03.10
ln 4 - N7874, ff 24.02.10
ln 5 - N787FT, ff 16.06.10, first with GE engines
ln 6 - N787ZA, ff 14.10.10
ln 7 - ZA100, JA801A ANA, first production aircraft
ln 8 - ZA101, JA803A ANA
ln 9 - ZA102, JA802A ANA
ln 10 - ZA530, LAN AL
ln 11 - ZA103, JA804A ANA
ln 12 - ZA104, JA805A ANA
ln 13 - ZA105, JA806A ANA
ln 14 - ZA106, JA809A ANA
ln 15 - ZA107, JA810A ANA
ln 16 - ZA531, LAN AL
ln 17 - ZA150, RAM
ln 18 - ZA108, JA811A ANA
ln 19 - ZA151, RAM
ln 20 - ZA175, JA821J JAL
ln 21 - ZA176, JAL
ln 22 - ZA115, JA807A ANA
ln 23 - ZA177, JAL
ln 24 - ZA116, JA808A ANA
ln 25 - ZA230, VT-ANA Air India
ln 26 - ZA231, VT-ANB Air India
ln 27 - unknown
ln 28 - ZA232, VT-ANC Air India
ln 29 - ZA233, VT-AND Air India
ln 30 - ZA234, VT-ANE Air India
further allocations: ln 36, first for China Southern, 48 first for Ethiopian, 49 first for Continental/United, 57 first for Qatar, 139 proto '9 for Air New Zealand.

I hope my list compiled from online sources provoces some corrections or more inside information about the status of above aircraft and more allocations of higher line numbers.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 42874 times:

All Things 787 has a "787 Production and Disposition" Schedule through Line #63 (ZA430) dated October 20th:

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/

You have to scroll down the page a bit to reach it.


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 42672 times:

Mods: Thanks for starting this thread! Lots to discuss and it is very helpful for it to occur in a centralized forum.

The following link is to a Seattle Times article on the possibility of 787-9 horizontal stabilizer production coming back in-house. It is interesting to read that Boeing and Alenia are still sorting through problems on the production of the -8 tail. Additionally, the article mentions some of the tails on the 787 test birds required rework over and above the initial shimming problem.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2013215262_boeing21.html

Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 2):
All Things 787 has a "787 Production and Disposition" Schedule through Line #63 (ZA430) dated October 20th:

Very comprehensive...While I frequent the site, I hope he is a regular contributor to this thread.



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21478 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 42540 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 1):
ln 1 - N787BA, ff 15.12.09, proto, RR engines

ln 1 is not a prototype. This issue has been kicked to death. Or do you mean something else by "proto" than that?

[Edited 2010-10-21 07:54:39]


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 42418 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 4):
ln 1 is not a prototype. This issue has been kicked to death. Or do you mean something else by "proto" than that?

But now we get to have many of these same conversations in a new thread!


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 42339 times:

Ahh, gotta like that new thread smell !!! Besides, MEA-707 is probably writing in his second or third language so I'm inclined to offer a lot of deference in word choice. I respect that he kicked off this thread with a solid post and hope we can move beyond the semantics to debating 787 production issues.

[Edited 2010-10-21 09:51:00]


DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 41734 times:

Damn, that's a lot of planes sitting around nearly ready for delivery. There could be 40+ in this condition by the initial delivery date. How long does it take for Boeing to get the engines on them and actually deliver them? If it's a relatively quick procedure, how many of these birds might we see delivered in 2011?

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3404 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 41720 times:
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Quoting davs5032 (Reply 8):
how many of these birds might we see delivered in 2011?

more than the total A380s delivered to date   


User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 868 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 41652 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 8):
How long does it take for Boeing to get the engines on them and actually deliver them?

There is much more to do to complete these airplanes than putting the engines on. I'm sure I've seen photos of the 787s in storage with more missing than just engines, and I believe that almost all are missing interiors. Then there is going to be other change incorportion and refurbishment.

I'm not sure we can say that up to line 30 is "complete" yet either. I don't recall it having gone all the way through, but I can no longer access the chicken track charts to check. It used to be that anyone in Boeing could go to the internal site showing where airplanes are and when line moves are scheduled, but access seems to have beenrestricted now.


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 41506 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 8):
how many of these birds might we see delivered in 2011

There probably won't be any official guidance from the company until the 4th Qtr. earnings call in late January, a bit surprising there was nary a question along these lines from the analysts and media on Wednesday's 3rd Qtr. earnings call.


User currently offlineaviationweek From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 41493 times:

Boeing has also kicked off the 787 simulator training across its global facilities. Read about the Gatwick facility here: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

User currently offlinestarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 41160 times:

I can understand storing the "completed" aircraft sans engines. It also makes some sense not to install the interior fittings until any additional flight test bugs are worked out, but the real question to me is how long it would take to outfit 30+ widebodies for delivery in addition to outfitting the ones that you have on the assembly line.

Could we see 60+ 787 deliveries? As well as the 748 deliveries?

Could be a good year for Boeing unless we see more execution problems appear.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 40786 times:

Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) reports that 787 number 20 (ZA175/JA821J) for Japan Airlines was moved from the 40-51 apron to Kilo North Friday night.


See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2010/10/paine-field-october-23.html#comments for photos.


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 40259 times:

All Things 787 reports that production woes may be "resurfacing" (See: http://nyc787.blogspot.com/ ). BTW, whatever happened to the periodic 787 program updates (conference call) from BCA in addition to the regular quarterly earnings call from HQ (McNerney & Bell)?

[Edited 2010-10-25 06:36:32]

User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 39956 times:

Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 14):
All Things 787 reports that production woes may be "resurfacing"

At some point there may be so many engineering changes in the pipeline (as a result of flight testing and "discoveries", both old and new), that it may be more economical to slow down or stop production.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30651 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 39948 times:
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Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):
At some point there may be so many engineering changes in the pipeline (as a result of flight testing and "discoveries", both old and new), that it may be more economical to slow down or stop production.

There have been at least two halts at the FAL to allow the suppliers to "catch up", but that might also be related to allowing the suppliers to address QC issues in their current production runs.


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 39745 times:
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Question once an airline decides on interiors, does there have to be additional testing on AVODS, power outlets, in one or more prototypes or early production a/c --does this add to the final certification time frame or is this something that can be simulated in parallel to the completion of the currently 'seatless' a/c? From the comments in the thread above it seems like no a/c in test flying yet have any interiors installed?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineb707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 39679 times:

How does the Delta news affect this since they won't receive anything before 2020? That obviously frees up some aircraft for those further down the line, no?

Can't wait to see these birds on a regular basis all around the world.


User currently offlineGordomatic From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 39570 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 17):
it seems like no a/c in test flying yet have any interiors installed?

Do you mean complete throughout the entire aircraft?

ZA0003 has a partial interior...


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Photo © Steve Brimley



[Edited 2010-10-25 12:58:50]


We have clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 39429 times:
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Quoting Gordomatic (Reply 19):
Do you mean complete throughout the entire aircraft?

ZA0003 has a partial interior...

Well in other threads I have seen talk about when an airline is changing their interiors and adding Wifi, or installing a new AVOD system, or adding power outlets they usually have to fit out a prototype and fly it around for a while and submit testing results to FAA (or other regulatory agencies) before they can modify the rest of the fleet. So since no 787 is yet fully decked out with a final interior, when is this phase of the certification scheduled to take place and how long does such a process take in practice?



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently onlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2501 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 39281 times:

Quoting Gordomatic (Reply 19):
ZA0003 has a partial interior...

They'll have to have one complete to do the evac test, won't they?


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39203 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 21):
They'll have to have one complete to do the evac test, won't they?
Quote:
Boeing will be able to certificate initial versions of the 787 without running a passenger evacuation demonstration, by piggybacking existing approvals for the 767 and 777. However, the plan for the proposed 787-10 stretch has not been finalised....
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...used-evacuation-demonstration.html

See also: "767 similarities allow Boeing to duck Dreamliner evacuation trial"

http://www.flightglobal.com/channels...to-duck-dreamliner-evacuation.html

[Edited 2010-10-25 16:13:04]

User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 39094 times:

Just in from the Seattle Times:

Quote:
For the third time this year, Boeing is stopping deliveries to Everett of the large pieces of the 787 Dreamliner, this time because Alenia of Italy cannot deliver the horizontal tails on time.

The suppliers of the other major airplane sections are also having to hold their pieces of the jet while Alenia catches up.

The pause in shipments to the final assembly line will vary from one 787 partner to another but will average about two weeks, said Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2013256677_boeing26.html


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30651 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 38990 times:
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Sounding more and more like Alenia is going to be given the boot (forgive the pun) as a supplier.

Boeing is mumbling about building the 787-9 horizontal stabilizer in Seattle and they might as well build the 787-8's there, as well.

And with Charleston already building Sections 47 and 48, I see no reason why Boeing cannot pull back production of Sections 44 and 46 from Alenia and build them in Charleston, as well. It would save the cost of shipping them to CHS for integration at the former Global Aeronautica facility.


25 NYC777 : It's pretty much a sure thing that HTP production for the -9 will not go to Alenia. Boeing andd Alenia are contractually obligated for the HTP for th
26 WarpSpeed : What about the buy-out approach? Could be cleaner and less disruptive. Otherwise, Boeing will need the production capacity up and running smoothly be
27 kaitak744 : Starting from which ln# will the 787 meet the original advertised weight? Last I remember it was around line 20?
28 tdscanuck : It doesn't impact type certification timeline...things like particular seats and IFE are certified all the time as add-ons to the basis type certific
29 dynamicsguy : The line 20 blockpoint changes weren't to meet a specific weight, although some of the changes included weight reduction. Rather the goal was to impr
30 kanban : this may be behind the transfer of the Developmental Center from Military to Commercial operations... not as a replacement but as an interim suppleme
31 NYC777 : Here's the production list that I have compiled to LN 63: Aircraft (ZA and/or Line Number) Customer Engine ZY997 N/A N/A ZY998 N/A N/A ZA001/LN1/N787B
32 Post contains images MCIGuy : I think we're talking about Boeing buying out the remainder of the contract with Alenia, not their buying the company.
33 kanban : when the 757 was pulled from Avco and Rockwell, it was by mutual agreement of non performance. We didn't buy out the contract... if it comes to leavi
34 Post contains links mdword1959 : Flightblogger has posted a fairly in-depth piece, "Inside the 787 delivery hold and horizontal stabilizer rework ." http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/
35 ER757 : Sounds like a real mess. I concur with the first comment posted at the end on Jon's article. No need to re-state it here
36 Post contains images MCIGuy : Yeah, it's Boeing's fault that their subcontractor can't build the sections they contracted for to spec , even after being made aware of the issue.
37 aerlingusa330 : Does anyone know the status of the construction of the second Final Assembly Point facility in North Charleston? It was said to be done mid-spring 201
38 Post contains images Stitch : I'd like to know if the workmanship issues are purely on Alenia and if this is something they kept hidden from Boeing. When they had issues with debo
39 Post contains images WarpSpeed : A mess indeed, but the guidance from Boeing on the pause is that this will not alter the current delivery schedule. Whether you believe this is anothe
40 Stitch : The last PR statement was from April 5th of this year when they placed the first girder for the FAL building. They also are building a 787 interiors
41 NYC777 : As fasr as I know it's still on schedule and in fact McNerney visited the SC site just this week. They on schedule to finish the building and install
42 WarpSpeed : Say what you will about the SC site, at least it remains on target for on time EIS! More like a lighting rod! At lease as an issue.
43 starrion : To meet the early part of the delivery schedule means having the first customer aircraft ready to go. Some of the completed and stored aircraft may e
44 dynamicsguy : On the internal Boeing news site they reported that they'd raised the final piece of the framework a few weeks ago.
45 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby reports movement of ZA530 (L/N #10 LAN) and ZA108 (L/N #18 ANA) on the Everett ramp areas yesterday (See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/ for pho
46 parapente : It is stated above that aircraft 20 will fall within promised spec's and that will involve an increased MTOW.Have they published the final performance
47 sunrisevalley : Above..... where?
48 Post contains images Stitch : I don't believe they have published the figures for the first 20. I expect towards the end of this year we shall see an updated Airport Compatibility
49 Rheinbote : Didn't Boeing talk about a Blockpoint 54 in that context? I seem to recall that Fancher was talking about BP54 during one of the program updates.
50 Rheinbote : Update from tomorrow's issue of Aviation Week: - the first 17 GE-powered 787s will be delivered with interim GEnx-1B Block 4 configuration engines - o
51 sunrisevalley : Agreed. But how much did these differ from the "preliminary" data published early on? I suggest there was probably an appreciable spread . Seems to m
52 Rheinbote : So why did Boeing raise the MTOW by 18,500 lbs from LN20 onwards? Why do both RR and GE spend a fortune on redesigning their engines?
53 Stitch : I would not be surprised if Boeing was just referring to the airframe performance guarantees, not engines (since they have no control over that). Also
54 dynamicsguy : Sorry, I don't have a source either, but it is certainly the case that Line 20 and on will apparently meet the guaranteed mission. I recall that we w
55 sunrisevalley : Seems to me these two good old boys are lucky that there is a delay. If everything was on time they could have a lot of engines in service that would
56 mdword1959 : You're assuming that the delays plaguing the A380, 787, and 748 programs hasn't caused the engine makers to slow the pace of the late stage developme
57 JoeCanuck : It should only have effected their production rates. They should have had the engines up to spec by the original EIS date.
58 Aloha717200 : Alright, I realize im probably asking something that I ought to know by now, but the 787 program has has so many things crop up over the years that I'
59 tdscanuck : They have to be; if not they can't be certified, and it would be illegal for them to carry passengers. Every time an issue gets found on an aircraft,
60 mdword1959 : It seems increasingly clear that the extraordinary events afflicting the engine makers beginning with the necessity to mothball the production of A38
61 Stitch : Japan Airlines today said their first 787-8 will be delayed until 2Q 2011, however since their planes have GE power, it could be specific to aircraft
62 parapente : At the top of this thread I thought it made out that most of the aircraft listed were already built.Are they? I also note that the list shows JAL airc
63 SCL767 : Very nice to see progress on LAN's first 787-8! We expect delivery of the a/c during the first quarter of 2011.
64 mdword1959 : There are photographs of L/Ns 20 & 21 assembled and painted sans engines, elevators and parked on the Kilo North ramp south of the Future of Flig
65 Stitch : Yes, ZA175 (JA821J) has been completed and is in storage. So have ZA176 and ZA177 for JL. We also need to remember that ZA007 is not scheduled for de
66 RJ_Delta : The first two B787-8s for LAN has been delayed until october 2011. Regards,
67 SCL767 : Again? Hopefully, the 3 B763s should be arriving on-time, and LA should receive compensation from Boeing for this delay.
68 Post contains links mdword1959 : Flightblogger is reporting that "Boeing reviewing 787 delivery schedule as post-certification rework looms," (see: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/f
69 Post contains links and images slz396 : So EIS slips with another few weeks again then, while most initial customers can again count on a few months of extra delay to their dates of deliver
70 mdword1959 : Under what circumstances wouldn't a customer seek maximum compensation available via liquidated damages clauses in the sales contract once the facts
71 parapente : Quote The report states that issues such as "a flight deck window popping sound discovered during flight test, addressing cabin condensation issues, r
72 tdscanuck : If they want to keep working with that OEM on good terms...OEM/airline relationship, in many cases, are multiple decades old. Screwing over your part
73 slz396 : The difference being that they roll off the line perfectly on schedule, not years late like the 787. I think the nightmare is not that the 787 is not
74 tarheelwings : Great post, thanks for keeping things in perspective. Delays of well over half a decade (guess in your mind that sounds more dramatic than 5 years)?
75 mdword1959 : Well defined "Liquidated Damages" clauses are actually provided for in contracts to help prevent rancor between the parties, especially in cases wher
76 WarpSpeed : This is disappointing news, but I would not expect to see the whole delivery schedule "move to the right" - but rather jiggled up a bit. Delivery of s
77 Post contains links and images slz396 : Some of the ILFC birds must now be delayed by that much, if one is to believe SUH's comments from about two years ago on the delay some of their fram
78 ikramerica : I doubt very much it's 5 years. It would take a permanent ramp-up reduction to be delayed that long. Some may be close to 4 years, but with deferrals
79 slz396 : That's true, but keep in mind ILFC explicitly said over 2 years ago that their 787s were delayed by 27 months ON AVERAGE with a maximum of 35 months
80 Post contains links and images PlanesNTrains : Exactly. Afterall, he's the same guy who said that the A320NEO is not good enough: http://australianaviation.com.au/a32...%E2%80%9Cnot-easy%E2%80%9D-
81 ikramerica : Isn't the 789 delayed by 35 months or so? Original EIS was 2010, now it's 2013. So that would account for the 35 months, and this delay in production
82 acidradio : Folks, I've had to delete a few posts here because they got overly argumentative. It is no secret that the 787 has some delays. It is no secret that m
83 tdscanuck : Exactly...that's my whole point. Even planes that have been in construction for decades, rolling off perfectly tuned production lines exactly on time
84 Swallow : Jon's post linked above reports that the challenge remains to reach a point of equilibrium where rework is no longer the primary task in Everett It is
85 tdscanuck : There's a difference between traveled work and rework. Traveled work is work that was supposed to be done at a supplier, wasn't, and ended up having
86 NYC777 : Rework is also design changes that came about due to discoveries made during flight testing. No one can say that no airplane that has just finished ce
87 N14AZ : Maybe I'm naive to ask but do we have some more technical information about the problems others than "flight deck window popping sound, cabin condens
88 Post contains links mdword1959 : Some hard confirmation of Mr. Ostrower's earlier report. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...by-further-787-delivery-delay.html Would this be the f
89 NYC777 : Yes it will be.
90 Rheinbote : Did anyone notice that the average production rate in 2010 fell below 1,5? In the first 10 months of 2010 assembly started on 13 aircraft - LN15-20 in
91 WarpSpeed : Sure felt like it regardless of the hard numbers (thanks for compiling by the way). I see this as the biggest issue facing Boeing Commercial at prese
92 dynamicsguy : Have they? The planned rate increase is not linear - it is stepped with discrete breaks in the increases. Even if the steps are smoothed, I thought i
93 JoeCanuck : Charleston is looking like a better idea all the time. If they can get the contractors up to speed, assembly shouldn't be the bottleneck.
94 Post contains links flood : Flightglobal: "Korean Air 787 deliveries slip 10 more months" "The aircraft has been delayed for sure, for about ten months," says a KAL senior execut
95 Post contains links mdword1959 : Drip, drip, drip: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...prospect-of-further-787-delay.html
96 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby reports there was a line move yesterday evening (See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2010/11/787-line-move.html )
97 NYC777 : Yes there was a line move though I belive he mistakenly identified the 787 heading to the paint hangar as one going to Japan Airlines....it's actuall
98 NYC777 : And the good times keep on rolling for Rolls Royce....Pratt & Whitney sues RR for patent infringement related to the Trent 1000 engines. This may
99 Stitch : I'd be shocked, frankly, if any request by P&W for an injunction on the delivery of Trent 1000 engines to Boeing for installation on customer air
100 art : One has to ask: why now? United Technologies must have been aware for some time (years) that the said Trents used swept-fan blades. If the RR swept-f
101 Post contains links mdword1959 : Quite a bit of reporting about the 787 by Flightglobal today, some of it conflicts with Jon Ostrower's report published earlier today: ANA in talks wi
102 NYC777 : It screws over RR...they get paid when they deliver engines to Boeing (Boeing get's screwed too but they're collateral damage). If they are ordered n
103 mattcawby : Prove it.
104 WarpSpeed : I wonder why the article says shipments would be halted? Seemingly, a financial remedy would be more appropriate. If P&W wins the case, it could
105 NYC777 : I asked a source at Boeing.
106 Stitch : Requesting an injunction on the infringing product is par for the course for patent lawsuits, however they are rarely granted. For example, every tim
107 WarpSpeed : I understand this, but the article seems most assured. "A ruling in favor of Pratt & Whitney by the ITC would mean Rolls-Royce would be blocked f
108 Rheinbote : Yes, technically you are right. It will be done in discrete steps, but Shanahan is on record saying it would be "linear", i.e. steps of equal height.
109 Post contains images brendows : And John Ostrower's graphics of the FAL status from the 28th of October supports your statement too
110 Post contains links WarpSpeed : http://www.king5.com/news/business/B...of-more-days-on-787-106794798.html @BoeingAirplanes tweeted this yesterday: "Today's press reports about new 78
111 kanban : the industrial engineers probably have it figured out so an increase adding 1 a month every other month could be done... will it? probably not, howev
112 Post contains links mdword1959 : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ts-787-subassembly-deliveries.html Perhaps a sign that things are beginning to sort out?
113 WarpSpeed : Perhaps some good hands-on advanced training for the those to be deployed on the N. Charleston FAL?
114 kanban : probably not... because they will be dealing with post production modifications that will have little bearing on actual production sequences.
115 Post contains links Rheinbote : http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ology/2013385417_dreamliner10.html "...following briefings from Boeing senior management in Chicago, including
116 kanban : there is a discussion of this on the 787 flight test thread... should we contain it there? or is here a better spot? what ever I hate two threads cov
117 scbriml : Well, this is the "official" production thread. The most shocking part of the article quoted by Rheinbote is I appreciate this is an analyst saying t
118 Post contains images mdword1959 : You gotta love McNerney, the bad news never seems to knock on his door until a couple of weeks after the earnings call.
119 ER757 : Wow That's gotta get some customers torqued - don't know what else there is to say.
120 Post contains links mdword1959 : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/bu...iness/11boeing.html?_r=1&src=busln The fire may provide some cover for what was going to be another delay r
121 kanban : let's not make grand assumptions... I know people want to believe that worst... our problem today is everybody is an expert because of instantaneous
122 Post contains links mdword1959 : I don't feel "overzealous" at all, I'll remind you of this recent exchange in a related topic. See: Boeing Reviewing 787 Delivery Schedule (by Chiad
123 Post contains links mdword1959 : Flightblogger reports that Morgan Stanley analyst Heidi Woods posits that as a result of recent events and consequent changes to aircraft harware and
124 Post contains links JoeCanuck : More voices are being added to the chorus predicting 787 delays; http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...other-787-delay-after-inflight-fir
125 Post contains images Stitch : At this point they should just stop and let Airbus launch the A350XWB and then re-design the 787 to be bigger and leap-frog it. At least Airbus saved
126 Post contains images ER757 : Ands so it continues. It's just a darned shame. While there are definitely a few who wish a pox on anything with "Boeing" painted on the side, for the
127 WarpSpeed : I just don't get it. How could six flying test aircraft amass almost 2,400 hours of flight time before an incident like this occurs? Sure, any thing c
128 JoeCanuck : In this instance, I am really interested in hearing some information about the cause of the fire and how it effected other systems. Was this a unique
129 Stitch : That seems to be the thrust of those who are expecting a six-month halt in the flight test program. They appear to be claiming that the main electric
130 mdword1959 : Perhaps if the aircraft had been further away from the airfield the crew would have had time to restore power through P-200 since it apparently wasn'
131 tdscanuck : There's no such thing as "the main electrical bus" on any aircraft that doesn't use synchronous generators (which is all the modern ones I'm aware of
132 Stitch : So it sounds like the folks claiming the flight test program will have to be stopped for a half year (or more) are...blowing smoke.
133 JoeCanuck : I think premature, at least. Any failure during 787 tests will not only be huge news, (and subject to more than the usual speculation), but Boeing wi
134 Stitch : I agree, but I don't see how this issue would result in a six month grounding of the test fleet. It sounds to me like things worked as designed.
135 JoeCanuck : On that note, has there been any word from Boeing yet as to the length of any delay...? Or have they insanely stated that any delay forecast will hav
136 tdscanuck : I'm hesitant to nay-say any 787 delay prediction, since most of them seem to eventually come true. But, based on what's been released by Boeing and l
137 JoeCanuck : I couldn't find the sarcasm smiley...
138 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) has posted a photograph of ZA103-L/N #11 (JA804A) with engines installed and also reports that ZA177 - L/N #23 (JA882J) has bee
139 NYC777 : Actually the ANA 78 at the compass rose is not LN 11 but LN 8 (ZA101). HTis is the firwt production 787 to outfitted wtih Trent 1000 engines. LN 11 (
140 Post contains links N14AZ : Don't know if this has been mentioned in the other on-going 787-threads (I checked two of them but didn't find anything): Just found this twitter mess
141 Post contains links mdword1959 : http://www.kansas.com/2010/12/02/161...ems-temporarily.html#ixzz171XkDATZ Some of the other subs/risk sharing partners don't have this kind of flexibi
142 Rheinbote : I guess Spirit was winding barrels somewhere north of LN50. Suppliers further upstream in the supply chain have considerable lead time, so one would e
143 Post contains links mdword1959 : Flightblogger: Boeing halts 787 part deliveries for another three weeks http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeing-halts-787-deli.html#comments
144 NYC777 : My sources have told me that production is to resume on Dec. 23rd. Source of the issue appears to be North Charleston integrated main fuselage section
145 art : Do you mean they are not keeping up with the other manufacturers?
146 NYC777 : Unclear what the issues are. I think it's internal since Boeign is askign its suppliers to keep to their current production and delivery scheudles. T
147 Rheinbote : I recall a Flightblogger graphic that depicted a leveled-out flow time of ~120 days for a mid-body. With two integration lines of 5-6 cells (?) each
148 kanban : Since Boeing is shut down between 12-23 and 1-3... I would question your sources...
149 NYC777 : They've given me information that has been correct so I wouldn't questions them on it. It is entirely possible that hte sections would be loaded into
150 Dan23 : Possible changes related to the aft equipment bay and power panels?
151 NYC777 : I don't think so. It's too soon though I wouldn't entirely rule it out.
152 dynamicsguy : The 23rd is still nominally a work day, at least in engineering.
153 Post contains images kanban : while technically you are correct...however based on 35 years of being there, almost everybody leaves the plant after the bosses "Merry Christmas" to
154 NYC777 : I just got updated information. LN 31 loads on December 22nd. Line move on the 21st.
155 NYC777 : I just got updated information. LN 31 loads on December 22nd. Line move on the 21st.
156 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) reports that the APU of ZA102 - LN9 (N6066Z/JA802A) was started at the fuel dock on Wednesday. http://kpae.blogspot.com/2010/12
157 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) reports that one year after the maiden flight of the 787, there are 11 Dreamliners on the flightline, 2 parked in front of the
158 stitch : So about a 1.5 per month production rate. Not exactly stunning performance for five year's investment...doubly so when one considers the original plan
159 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) reports that ZA104 - L/N 12 (ANA JA805A ) was moved from the 45-03 paint hangar to stall 107 on the Boeing Ramp on Friday. See:
160 thediplomat : That is one damming newspaper article.
161 stitch : But within line with the monumental c**k-up that the 787 program has been. I guess the cold comfort is even at $12 billion (I find the $18 billion nu
162 Post contains links mham001 : Since the thread got out of hand, a pertinent article link was deleted. Pretty damning indeed. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ology/2013713745
163 alwaysontherun : Unbelievable, when it rains it pours at Boeing!! Tdscanuck, you want to try replying to this……….again?? ###"I´m always on the Run"###
164 BoeingVista : Leeham reports that flightblogger has an article for publication in the next day or 2 with additional info. This is the (un)official leaks process th
165 Post contains links Spacepope : Seems like the Trent 1000 testbed has been rather busy the past few days. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...R/history/20101219/2145Z/KCNW/KCNW
166 BoeingVista : Interesting Good catch
167 JoeCanuck : Indeed...nicely spotted.
168 Post contains links alwaysontherun : http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm….html This link doesn´t exist anymore………????? Is none of the more "senior" members on here interested in
169 Post contains links mham001 : It would seem to be a big deal if it's true. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ology/2013713745_dreamliner19.html
170 Post contains images flood : A few weeks ago there were also reports of "popping noises" coming from the cockpit windows which wasn't mentioned in the article. Was this merely a r
171 alwaysontherun : That´s interesting…………never heard of that before! Anybody knows more about that? I´m no expert but popping noises from the windshield can b
172 tdscanuck : I'm not sure if I count as "senior" but I've had three posts on that topic deleted so far. I'm not going to try for four. Depends what's popping. Set
173 Post contains images tomcat : I wouldn't be so optimistic since the cash flow that will be generated from the 787 sales will have to be shared between Boeing and its partners. The
174 dynamicsguy : The linked article clearly states that the over-run amount includes penalties to be paid to suppliers and airlines.
175 alwaysontherun : If you don´t, who does………I wonder!!?? Mmm, say no more! But interesting that there´s a new thread out on "Boeing´s X-mas present to the worl
176 stitch : The program is yet to be in a forward loss position, so as bad as things are, they're still in a position to make a profit on the orders they have. T
177 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) reports that the engines on ZA102 L/N 9 (ANA N6066Z/JA802A) were started for the first time. See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2010
178 stitch : Rumors say the FAA has approved Boeing resuming flight testing and ZA002 will take to the skies Christmas / Boxing Day weekend.
179 JoeCanuck : Don't be a tease, now....I'm not good with disappointment.
180 stitch : Looks like it will be ZA004 and it will be a company flight and not part of the certification program (though I am sure Boeing can use it for data col
181 NYC777 : I'm reporting that test flights will resume today. FLightblogger confirmed that ZA004 will fly today. These are not FAA certification test flights but
182 JoeCanuck : Company flights for what purpose...?
183 stitch : Data collection to refine their computer models? Verification of software fixes for the power distribution issue? Positive PR (pictures of a 787 flyi
184 JoeCanuck : Makes sense...I was hoping for something specific but Boeing isn't being really chatty right now. I suppose they have to do a few proving flights bef
185 NYC777 : I've just put up another blog post...but my belief that these flights are to prove out the fixes in the hardware andsoftware to repvent the problems
186 Post contains links tdscanuck : ZA004 has filed their flight plan: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...4/history/20101223/2130Z/KPAE/KBFI The majority of flight testing is non-ce
187 ER757 : [/quote] Good to see - and it appears they'll be up for a while, it's not just a ferry flight from PAE to BFI. At FL290 they should be above the soup
188 JoeCanuck : Ok...I didn't understand the distinction. I thought that every flight in the flight test program was a de facto certification flight.
189 sparky35805 : One of the test today is deployment of the RAT for evaluation. sparky
190 stitch : Weather has really deteriorated - heavy rain and a low ceiling - so I hope they can still get ZA004 in the air.
191 Post contains links kanban : Hey guys the 787 flight test thread is still open... only the incident thread was closed.. Official 787 Flight Test Tracking Thread - Part 5 (by moder
192 Post contains links JoeCanuck : 004 is flying... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...resume-final-schedule-unclear.html
193 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby reports ZA107 (L/N 15) and ZA108 (L/N 18) were moved from the flightline to the 40-51 apron suggesting they might be headed inside for addi
194 Post contains links keesje : On Friday, January 7, the 787 barrel on display at the Future of Flight will be moved to the Boeing 40-41 fatigue test building. http://paineairport.
195 Post contains links mdword1959 : See: http://planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=1005766 for a photo of this location.
196 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (KPAE Blog) reports that L/N 10 (ZA530 - LAN) is about to leave the side of body modification structure. See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/
197 Post contains links mdword1959 : ZA102/LN9/N6066Z/JA802A made her maiden flight today. See: http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/236326.asp#comments
198 Post contains links mdword1959 : Here is Matt Cawby's (KPAE Blog) interesting observation from yesterday; See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2011/01/787-update-january-24.html#comments for
199 frigatebird : I would say the amount of travelled work for nrs. 10 through 22 perhaps. It could be that nr. 23 came off the FAL with additional modifications learn
200 JoeCanuck : Maybe I missed it but what's the word on the Charlston plant? When will they start producing?
201 Post contains links maxter : From Reuters January 24th. The Dreamliner nightmare: where is Boeing going wrong? http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/tra...ng-going-wrong-20110121-19z6z
202 hannahpa : Very interesting article. I learned quite a bit. I hope Boeing is serious when they said that they are learning from all of their mistakes. I hope th
203 Stitch : Boeing still says it is on target for 2013.
204 NYC777 : The plant is almost done and the first 787 is still schedule to start final assembly by July of this year. The plant is due to be completed by May. F
205 nycdave : Good article. Pretty much agrees with what I've said... you don't start by outsourcing, and building a plane backwards from that. I understand why Boe
206 Stitch : FlightBlogger is reporting that their sources say the first 787 delivery to NH will be in February, and that Boeing will probably deliver between 12 a
207 rwessel : Actually he appears to be saying September.
208 Post contains links and images mdword1959 : Didn't you mean to say September? http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
209 Post contains images Stitch : Just read what I mean and not what I type.
210 Post contains images MCIGuy : ...and I couldn't care less at this point, and I'll believe it when I see it.
211 Stitch : Dinesh Keskar, President of Boeing India, stated in an interview with the Hindustan Times that AI would receive at least one of their 787-8s this year
212 col : In CZ Jan in flight magazine they report receiving 10 x 787's this year and all 5 of their A380's? Not sure if this will happen!
213 catdaddy63 : CZ has three frames scheduled to be built in the next few months. They are assigned LN34 (starts final assembly this month), LN36, and LN43. They have
214 col : Thanks catdaddy, found it hard to believe, but I guess it is CZ after all!!
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