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KL And MIA Service, Update?  
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 7416 times:

I just noticed that two weeks have gone by since the announcement was made that KL was interested in serving MIA in January. Does anyone have any update on this story or has anyone heard anything new in particular?

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHBUF From Netherlands, joined Mar 2009, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

The winter 2010/2011 schedule does not feature MIA yet..hopefully next summer?

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9956 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6985 times:

Quoting miaintl (Thread starter):
I just noticed that two weeks have gone by since the announcement was made that KL was interested in serving MIA in January. Does anyone have any update on this story or has anyone heard anything new in particular?

Do you have an official link to KL's interest in wanting to serve MIA?

A388


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6961 times:

The link came from a Dutch aviation website. I was not the one who started this rumor, i got it from a dutch anneter.

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9956 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6707 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):
The link came from a Dutch aviation website. I was not the one who started this rumor, i got it from a dutch anneter.

Okay so its not official that KL wants to start the MIA route (yet). It's all rumors apparently (for now).

A388


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1931 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

Scramble.nl is suggesting January, with MD-11 equipment, but no official confirmation, yet.

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

I think LH's daily DUS service is what's keeping KL from coming to MIA.

User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

Today's 'Telegraaf' mentions KL's return to MIA next april. Lousy newspaper, but usually well informed.

User currently offlineDakota From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

A spokesperson of KLM confirmed that it will fly AMS-MIA from april 2011. Nothing known about frequencies or aircraft type, though: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=36782 (in Dutch). I guess 5 times weekly MD-11. Any other thoughts?

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5612 times:

Sounds good, though i wonder how this will impact LH's DUS service.

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9956 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 6):
I think LH's daily DUS service is what's keeping KL from coming to MIA.
Quoting miaintl (Reply 9):
Sounds good, though i wonder how this will impact LH's DUS service.

What I've read several times before is that DUS is much more convenient/closer for Dutch people in that part of Holland that borders Germany to drive to compared to driving all the way to AMS. Besides this I don't know how big the Dutch percentage is on those LH DUS flights to MIA compared to their own German percentage. If that percentage is small, than the LH DUS has even less to fear for KL starting nonstop MIA flights from DUS.

A388


User currently offlineMD11Bob From Germany, joined Mar 2010, 115 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
What I've read several times before is that DUS is much more convenient/closer for Dutch people in that part of Holland that borders Germany to drive to compared to driving all the way to AMS

Yeah, but 45 € per person for passenger tax (Luftverkehrsabgabe) might change that in 2011...


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Market capacity to Miami is growing significantly - one must question if this is not a little out of whack?

LH - MIAMUC 5/7
IB - BCNMIA 3/7
KL - MIAMS 5/7
AZ - MXPFCO 3/7
DL - MIALHR Daily


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5332 times:
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Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 12):
LH - MIAMUC 5/7
IB - BCNMIA 3/7
KL - MIAMS 5/7
AZ - MXPFCO 3/7
DL - MIALHR Daily

MIA to London has had four airlines before, in the 1980's they had Pan AM, Air Florida, BA and Virgin. With DL it will be four again.

MIA to AMS has been flown before by KLM and NW.

MIA to BCN- should have happened long ago when long haul to South America flights started.

MIA to MXP & FCO- flights to Milan are a natural expansion of nearly 20 years of Alitalia flying to Miami.

MUC to MIA is natural since MUC has been the second LH German hub for over 10 years now.

All these flights are the natural expansions and evolutions of the individual markets.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
MIA to London has had four airlines before, in the 1980's they had Pan AM, Air Florida, BA and Virgin. With DL it will be four again.

MIA to AMS has been flown before by KLM and NW.

MIA to BCN- should have happened long ago when long haul to South America flights started.

MIA to MXP & FCO- flights to Milan are a natural expansion of nearly 20 years of Alitalia flying to Miami.

MUC to MIA is natural since MUC has been the second LH German hub for over 10 years now.

All these flights are the natural expansions and evolutions of the individual markets.

True, but these pax were being flown via LHR/CDG/FRA prior. Passengers are a non-renewable resource, somebody is going to win and lose in this equation.


User currently offlineworldliner From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Im surprised that they don't serve it already.


@777Worldliner
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9956 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5248 times:

Quoting MD11Bob (Reply 11):
Yeah, but 45 € per person for passenger tax (Luftverkehrsabgabe) might change that in 2011...

Yes, I totally forgot about that new tax rule in Germany. That will most likely also change things. Let's see what will happen...

A388


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7252 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 12):
Market capacity to Miami is growing significantly - one must question if this is not a little out of whack?

Why would it be out of whack. Miami is a top 3 or 4 market from the US to Europe it makes perfect sense its about time BCN started, AMS restarted etc.. MUC, MXP, FCO all make perfect sense. All are hubs and have decent O/D on both sides of the route. The only questionable flight right now is Transaero to Miami. But given that it is the only airline flying Miami-Russia it should be sucessful too. All the new service was bound to come to MIA at some point.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5146 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 17):
Why would it be out of whack. Miami is a top 3 or 4 market from the US to Europe it makes perfect sense its about time BCN started, AMS restarted etc.. MUC, MXP, FCO all make perfect sense. All are hubs and have decent O/D on both sides of the route. The only questionable flight right now is Transaero to Miami. But given that it is the only airline flying Miami-Russia it should be sucessful too. All the new service was bound to come to MIA at some point.

Each of the routes make sense, but who was carrying the pax before? There is a finite number to PAX levels, so somebody will feel the pinch..


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

You may be right that some flights will have to be sacraficed for these new operations. I could see AF downgrading their product and LH canceling its DUS service in response to the new KL service. I dont think Transaero will affect anything, because it is just a charter airline that operates twice a week. I remember there was a time when LHR/CDG/FRA had a monopoly on European traffic from MIA, good to see thats now changing and that the market is diversifying.

[Edited 2010-10-26 15:42:32]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5108 times:
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Quoting miaintl (Reply 19):
I remember there was a time when LHR/CDG/FRA had a monopoly on European traffic from MIA, good to see thats now changing and that the market is diversifying.

Lots of changes have occured since the 1970's when service to Continental Europe started. That decade started service to London by National and BA and Lufthansa arrived in Miami. With the changes in Eastern Europe, Spain joining teh EU in 1986, and the inroduction of teh Euro many more Europeans have come to Miami for vacations. Russians are now spending cash like drunken sailors at the upscale Bal Harbor shopping mall. In the last 25 years Miami has had a resergence since "Miami Vice" , it bacame a fasion capitol. All these diferent factors have converged to bring more people to Miami and they need a good 777 to get here, so more flights from Europe the better. More people have come from the Latin emerging economies too, Brazil is booming and many of those people are bringning the money shoping to Miami. KLM will add well to teh mix, a 777 please, the MD-11 can go to Canada.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

But would that KL 777 come at the expense of AF 747 service?

User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1616 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 5022 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
With DL it will be four again.

Well, with AA & BA operating as one, DL will would make it three airlines on that route (I am counting AA/BA, VS, and DL)


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4867 times:
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Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 22):
Well, with AA & BA operating as one, DL will would make it three airlines on that route (I am counting AA/BA, VS, and DL)

Back in the 1980's not at the same time Air Florida and Eastern were the second US airline with Pan AM. BA also flew it with Laker flew it in the early 1980's too. Then Miami to London was Virgin's second US route in 1986.

BA & AA operating as "one" is the way airlines fly these days. LH & UA do it, AF and DL do it too. MIami to LHR will be Virgin, Delta( with AF), BA (with AA) and AA ( with BA) in 2011.


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1692 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

Effective Summer11 schedule, KLM will restart AMS-MIA v.v. with M11 aircraft on 4x a week...(mo/we/fr/su)


don't throw away tomorrow !
25 miaintl : Cool is it bookable?
26 LAXtoATL : Not sure what you are trying to say here... BA and AA will be one airline on this route. There is no reason to identify each. If you are going to cou
27 miaintl : Were did you get this information, because it appears not to be bookable on KL's website.
28 Post contains links and images Severnaya : Not about equipment or dates but on http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/default.asp?cat=all&id=36782 KLM confirms their return to MIA. Throw it t
29 jfk777 : " BA with AA" would ba a BA operated flight with an AA alliance, "AA with BA" would be an AA flight with a BA code. Sure AA/ BA are now one giant Atl
30 LAXtoATL : The two carriers will have metal neutrality on this route so it does not matter who operates the flight. It is simply one airline regardless of which
31 jfk777 : All that is true but today it is 2 BA 747 and 1 AA 777.
32 LAXtoATL : And it is still one airline flying 2 747s and 1 777. Metal neutrality is metal neutrality.
33 miaintl : Guys lets stay on topic. I started this blog to find out more information on KL's interest in MIA, this should not be about BA or AA.
34 LAXtoATL : true. sorry for the distraction
35 jfk777 : Its a KLM MD-11, four time weekly starting the spring. It seems pretty elementary. Any conversation about a MIA to AMS flight will include all Europe
36 miaintl : Why should it include all Europe, unless you're suggesting this new KL service will hurt current European operations at MIA, which of course might asw
37 mdutch : Now possible to book on klm.com: starting Summer 2011 KL627 AMS1510 – 1910MIA M11 x246 KL628 MIA2115 – 1205+1AMS M11 x246[Edited 2010-10-28 01:31:
38 gkirk : Take the UK for example, some people currently flying say MAN-LHR-MIA, may now fly MAN-AMS-MIA, as well as people from the likes of ABZ, EDI,GLA,NCL.
39 Post contains links MH017 : Amstelveen, 28 October 2010 – KLM Royal Dutch Airlines announces a four-times-a-week return service to Miami International Airport from the start o
40 jfk777 : The history of Amsterdam from Miami is sadly not great. National did it with a DC-10-30 once or twice weekly in the late 1970's. KLM did it it the la
41 miaintl : I know MIA-Northern Europe has never really been a strong market, but hopefully they will do better this time.
42 flymia : People were connecting in other places. JFK and ATL being a big spot. However when you start new non-stop service passenger numbers do go up as popul
43 Post contains images MH017 : How is AB doing on the DUS-MIA/RSW v.v. routes ? They're in direct competition with LH in that case (to MIA, that is)...found them rather expensive,
44 76er : Does anyone know in what year KL/NW first started nonstops to MIA in the nineties? IIRC NW used the DC10, KL the MD11 back then. Anyone remember the f
45 PHBUF : that's why it's surprised me we're gonna operate the MD-11 on the MIA rotation and not the A330-200..anyone agree? or know why the MD-11 is preferred
46 Viscount724 : It was a NW flight, codeshared with KL, as part of their transatlantic joint venture.[Edited 2010-10-30 14:50:56]
47 miaintl : What is everbodies prediction when it comes to the preformance and success of this new route? Is the MIA-Northern Europe market bigger this time aroun
48 A388 : Probably because the MD11 has been reconfigured for leisure destinations which MIA fits in well and I assume the MD11 offers a bit more cargo capacit
49 AA B777-200 : Back then NW started with a DC10. Later KLM operated it with the MD11, but when results were disappointing, it was switched to the 763. Mind you, in
50 Post contains images Kappel : Now it's back to the MD11. You gotta be happy about that!
51 miaintl : The flight does not seem to be bookable on expedia or orbitz yet, just on the Kl website. Anyone know why?
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