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Why Does El Al Not Serve SIN?  
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12519 times:

Israel's flag carrier, El Al, serves a number of destinations in Asia: Bangkok, Beijing, Bombay and Hong Kong. Surprisingly Singapore is not on the list. Can anybody say why BKK was chosen over SIN, or why El Al don't operate to both? I notice that SQ don't offer services to TLV either.

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8450 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12436 times:
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No ASian airlines flies to Israel either, nothing unusal there.

User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12391 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
No ASian airlines flies to Israel either, nothing unusal there

I was under the impression that both Korean Air and Air China offer services to Israel - at least TLV is listed as a destination bookable through their respective web sites.


User currently offlinefaucett From Peru, joined Jul 2009, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12381 times:

KE serves TLV, and I think that's it.


faucett
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12362 times:

I believe SQ was thinking about TLV some years ago (like a decade ago) during the height of the intifada. Now that Israel's economy is booming and it is becoming a global high-tech player I would be surprised if SQ doesn't start TLV in the near future.

I imagine that RJ & TK capture a lot of Asia-Israel traffic.


User currently offlinemainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12317 times:

Quoting Quokka (Thread starter):
Can anybody say why BKK was chosen over SIN, or why El Al don't operate to both?

Possibly something to do with Israelis' holiday choices?


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12283 times:

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 5):
Possibly something to do with Israelis' holiday choices?

Thailand and India are VERY popular for Israelis who finish their Army service. PEK & HKG are big business cities so no surprise there.

[Edited 2010-10-22 07:05:44]

User currently onlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12162 times:

Singapore's between Malaysia and Indonesia, which you would need to fly over to get to SIN. I'd imagine Israel's relations with those two countries has led to airspace restrictions and hence LY does not fly to Singapore.

User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12013 times:

I find it strange also that with a large tech and bio sector that Israel doesn't have more cargo flights to and from Asia.

User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11984 times:

There are no Israel-Singapore flights because they would have to pass through Malaysian airspace. Malaysia has no relations with Israel, and issues its citizens passports valid for every country except Israel. But other than that, I bet it would be a major success, carrying high-yielding O&D between Singapore and Israel, and onwards to Oz.

User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11922 times:

Quoting Quokka (Thread starter):
Surprisingly Singapore is not on the list. Can anybody say why BKK was chosen over SIN, or why El Al don't operate to both?

Possibly the same reason NZ stopped flying to SIN. Insufficient origin and destination pax. BKK can be used for transit to other destinations in the area and provide better frequency. SIN is unnecessary.

PA515


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5898 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day ago) and read 11725 times:

Quoting directorguy (Reply 9):

There are no Israel-Singapore flights because they would have to pass through Malaysian airspace.

Israel has some kind on link with Indonesia, they could fly over that air space, LY cargo even have an office in Jakarta most likely handled by a GSA, and their cargo webpage lists Jakarta as one of the destinations that one can fly cargo to from Israel, through other airlines.

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 8):
I find it strange also that with a large tech and bio sector that Israel doesn't have more cargo flights to and from Asia.

instead LY Cargo have also cut their Asiat network now only left flying to Hong Kong, previously they did ,Tashkent, Almaty Delhi, Bombay, Colombo, Bangkok, Shaghai and Seoul.

Yes I too expected atleast cargo divisions of several Asian carriers to be flying there.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Thailand and India are VERY popular for Israelis who finish their Army service. PEK & HKG are big business cities so no surprise there.

Strange that Thai dont fly there despote demand, though TG and Casthay have said they are interested in serving TLV.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 2):
I was under the impression that both Korean Air and Air China offer services to Israel -

Air China dont fly there, but their cargo freighters have been on visits to TLV for convesion by Bedek, previously TLV also got Air India in the 90's anf Philippine Airlines in the 50's or so.

Asian carriers do fly to Israel for technical reasons, for conversions of 747s to freighters Asiana, EVA Air and China Airlines have been therere besides Air China, CI's ones went to Air Cargo Germany, the rest returned home.

Nepal Airlines was there for maintenence few months back, picture is in database.


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 17 hours ago) and read 11395 times:

So the problem is overflight rights. It is fortunate that Israel and Myanmar (Burma) have long established relations otherwise BKK might have been a problem too.

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
Strange that Thai dont fly there despite demand


TG have a code-share arrangement with LY - when I have checked online for flights from PER to TLV via BKK, the sector BKK-TLV is coded TG with a note "Operated by El Al." Getting to TLV is no hassle but getting back involves a layover of more than nine hours, something that's not really attractive without a stopover of a couple of days.


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 17 hours ago) and read 11369 times:

If LY were to add another Asian destination, it would probably be TYO (either NRT or HND). It would attract both business passengers and tourists. Also LY would not have to detour around Arab and Moslem countries unless Turkey closes its airspace to Israeli civilian aircraft. PVG is another possibility although I am not sure about the routing of such flights. LY is more likely to start flights to PVG than SIN.

Quoting directorguy (Reply 9):
There are no Israel-Singapore flights because they would have to pass through Malaysian airspace.

This is probably the main reason why neither LY or SQ fly between TLV and SIN. Most pasengers travelling to or from Singapore or Australia transit in BKK. I have also read that Australia prohibits airlines from having their own armed security forces at its airports, and this effectively prevents LY from flying to SYD or MEL.

Quoting faucett (Reply 3):
KE serves TLV, and I think that's it.

Correct! However, KE downgraded the aircraft it flies to TLV, which may indicate that this route is not performing well. I would not be surprised if KE suspended these flights within the next year.

Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
Strange that Thai dont fly there despote demand

TG codeshares on LY flights. It is probably more profitable than flying there with its own aircraft, especially since TG could not overfly Arab countries on flights to TLV.


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 17 hours ago) and read 11305 times:

So LY can overfly the likes of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon en route to Asia? Or do they have to head north and over Russia then cut across to Asia?

User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 17 hours ago) and read 11284 times:

Quoting tayser (Reply 14):
So LY can overfly the likes of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon en route to Asia? Or do they have to head north and over Russia then cut across to Asia

Either it must head fly north and head east across Russia, or fly south over the Red Sea, around Saudi Arabia, and then across the Indian Ocean. The same applies to Asian carrier flying to TLV.


User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 10706 times:

Quoting directorguy (Reply 9):
Malaysia has no relations with Israel

Did something specific trigger this or is it just part of the "standard conflict"


The fact that the route isnt served does seem quite the bit strange.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 15):
The same applies to Asian carrier flying to TLV.

Is there some sort of arab embargo over east asian airlines or any airlines when they are flying to and from Israel?


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5898 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 10695 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 13):

Correct! However, KE downgraded the aircraft it flies to TLV, which may indicate that this route is not performing well. I would not be surprised if KE suspended these flights within the next year.

I dont think so, the A332 caries almost same number of passengers as the 744 Combi they were using, also KE Cargo have resumed freighter ops there after a whole season or more of suspension, though frequency is reduced to once weekly from previous two.


User currently offlinelychemsa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1237 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 10535 times:

Jfk777: Incorrect. Korean Airlines fly to Tel Aviv.

The reason LY fly to Thailand is three fold: Many Thai workers in Israel and it is a popular holiday destination. Also a connecting city for Australia.

[Edited 2010-10-22 23:58:51]

User currently offlineViper911 From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 10020 times:

Quoting lychemsa (Reply 18):
Also a connecting city for Australia.

Which is also, a popular destination (also New Zealand) for israelis who finished their army service so basically BKK is far more attractive to LY rather then SIN. After living 15 years in Israel, i almost never heard of someone who would like to fly to SIN.


User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2110 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 9269 times:

A related topic was discussed not too long ago (May 2010) in SQ Talk forum. It's about SQ's rumoured service to TLV.

http://www.sqtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9531

Among the key points:

- Malaysia and Indonesia as Singapore's neighbours
- Security issues in SIN for flights to Israel
- Visas and immigration related issues for SQ's crews, many of whom come from Malaysia
- Crew roster/scheduling issue (since those from Malaysia et al can not enter Israel)
- Malaysia does not have diplomatic relationship with Israel
- Malaysia's airspace closure to Israeli's aircraft/airline


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5898 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 9175 times:

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 20):
Visas and immigration related issues for SQ's crews, many of whom come from Malaysia
- Crew roster/scheduling issue (since those from Malaysia et al can not enter Israel)
- Malaysia does not have diplomatic relationship with Israel
- Malaysia's airspace closure to Israeli's aircraft/airline

But Israeli businessmen can visit Malaysia on their Israeli passports.

Israeli amateur cricket team played in Kuala Lumpur in the early or mid 90's.

[Edited 2010-10-23 07:46:05]

User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2110 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

Which was marred by a huge demonstration. I believe those were given entry into Malaysia on special permit. And that was the last time we Malaysians heard about official Israelis present in our country.

Quote:
Protesters Disrupt Match
Published: March 31, 1997

About 500 Muslims invaded a field in Malaysia, where they mistakenly thought Israeli cricketers were playing a match yesterday, and forced another game to be called off before moving on to look for the Israelis.

The protesters belonging to an Islamic opposition party lighted bonfires and smashed advertising billboards at a playing ground outside Kuala Lumpur, where Canada and the Netherlands were supposed to play a preliminary match for the I.C.C. Trophy.

Meanwhile, Israel played Gibraltar and lost by two wickets in a stadium in another Kuala Lumpur suburb, guarded by about 100 riot police.

Five police buses blocked the single entrance of the stadium in anticipation of a demonstration.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/31/sports/protesters-disrupt-match.html


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5898 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8873 times:

No some one here was arguing in another topic that Isarelis can visit Malaysia on business.

And related to LY and SIN an Israeli member here had said in some topic that their ex-Singapore Airlines leased/purchased 744 has Givenchy Sky Suites, it dosent, SQ dont lease out or sell those seats when they give the 747s out to others.


User currently onlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8848 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 21):
But Israeli businessmen can visit Malaysia on their Israeli passports.

Well that's screwy! We won't recognize your government, but we'll recognize your government-issued passport in exchange for your dollars! Ahhhh the world we live in! As stupid as I think it is I almost respect a policy like Saudi Arabia's or Lebanon's more. We don't recognize you. We won't accept your passports, and we won't accept any passports that have even a suggestion you've been there.


25 aviasian : When I was living in BKK from 2001 to 2005 and visited Don Muang Airport on many occasions for photography, I could always tell by midday that an El
26 777way : ^ But North Korea dont recognise Israel, how can their nationals go work there?
27 einsteinboricua : Part of the standard conflict. Malaysia allows Israeli citizens to come in provided they contact the Malaysian government beforehand for permits. The
28 IAD380 : If any airline were to start TLV-SIN flights, wouldn't SQ do much better on the route than LY? LY flights to SIN primarily would rely on O&D traff
29 Quokka : SQ would probably have the greater resources to offer such a route, given their bigger network and inter-connectivity. At present services to Austral
30 777way : Dont get it, please explain.
31 Quokka : Diplomatic recognition and recognising a country's existence are not the same thing. Some countries do not have diplomatic relations with Israel but
32 777way : It dosent work that way, North Korea are Anti-Israel.
33 einsteinboricua : You can recognize a country and not have relations with it (like the US and Iran do), but you can't have relations unless you recognize the country,
34 hi_flyer : But North Korea is pro-Foreign Currency, and in this case economics trump ideology. Given the structure of North Korea's economy, I think it's safe t
35 777way : If they were they would have excellent ties with Asia and the oil rich African and Gulf states if not rest of the world, and tourism in their country
36 Post contains links Quokka : The following link shows that North Korea maintains Embassies in a number of Middle East, Asian and African countries, even if relations are always t
37 afterburner : Many countries don't recognize Republic of China (Taiwan) but they welcome Taiwanese visitors.
38 777way : North Korea had a consulate in Pakistan too right next to my friends house in Karachi, and that too in the poshest area of the city, the Koreans were
39 luckyone : I disagree. Part of what makes them get as much tourism dollars as they currently do stems from the fact that they are so closed and isolated. If the
40 Post contains images abrelosojos : The next destination from TLV will be DEL - either on LY, AI, or 9W. Mark my words . Saludos, A.
41 ly7e7 : I wonder why it did not happen so far. What about Bangalore?
42 Post contains images sw733 : This is an excellent point. In fact, MOST countries maintain relations with the People's Republic of China (Beijing) instead of the Republic of China
43 777way : I say it will be a Chinese city by a China carier either passenger or cargo. Hainan Airlines had applied for seasonal service there back in 2005.[Edi
44 IAD380 : DEL is awfully hard to get to if you cannot overfly Pakistan, Iran, or the Arabian Peninsula. The detour around the Arabian Peninsula would consume a
45 4xear : Israelis wanting to fly to DEL and elsewhere in Asia can do that by flying from TLV on Royal Jordanian to Amman and continue east. That has become qui
46 abrelosojos : = BLR has strong premium demand - but nothing in terms of volume. It has not happened because of two reasons: 1/ LY would have to go a long-way to ge
47 IAD380 : Are you sure? I remember reading that AI suspended its BOM-TLV flights in the late 1990s because the detour around Saudi Arabia hurt profit margins,
48 abrelosojos : = I stand corrected. I think you're right. Saludos, A.
49 Quokka : Good point. TLV-AMM-DXB-PER is an option even if it does add an extra stop compared to TLV-BKK-PER the overall time is no greater due to the 9hr 20mi
50 airbazar : I doubt this very much. If there was any demand for Israel-Singapore traffic, SQ would have started that service. As for the overflight ban by Arab c
51 777way : SQ cant because their flghts are routed through Malaysian and Indonesian air space. Interestingly though LY cargo offer Jakarta as an interlinre stat
52 Quokka : A transit visa is not required by passengers using DXB (or any other International airport in the UAE) if the passengers are continuing their journey
53 abrelosojos : = LY also flies TLV-BOM, but RJ (and TK) carry significant Israeli-India traffic due to higher prices on LY, the length of the flight (thanks to sill
54 abrelosojos : = I know of at least one person personally who was denied boarding by Emirates for having a Israeli visa on his passport when flying CAI - BOM via DX
55 faucett : I always found this issue "funny", or call it peculiar. As an Israeli, I have entered Malaysia, Indonesia and Dubai with an Israeli passport (OK, in D
56 Quokka : Thanks for the word of caution. Was he denied boarding in CAI or DXB? I can see that it would happen (or should if at all) in CAI, but as a transit p
57 MAS777 : Malaysians are in fact also allowed to travel to Israel on special travel permits despite passports being issued with the notice 'valid for all count
58 luckyone : Doesn't make sense any which way you slice it. Egypt and Israel have diplomatic relations. El Al and Egypt Air (via Air Sinai) both fly between Tel A
59 airbazar : The ban only applies to LY as I understand it. Plenty of airlines fly to TLV and are allowed to overfly Arab nations including Malaysia and Indonesia
60 luckyone : Not sure you fully understood what was said. Airlines who fly to TLV can overfly those countries, but their flights TO Tel Aviv cannot. A moot point
61 airbazar : I understand. I'm just saying I don't believe it. Can you provide a link? While the ban on LY by Arab nations is well publicized and documented, I'm
62 ly7e7 : Hi, I do not think there is an official document by Israeli authorities available on the web that states the rules , but de facto there was never an
63 huaiwei : Was Singapore agreeable to allowing Israeli airlines beyond rights to Australia?
64 reality : oh......are you saying that it is the Israeli authorities that do not permit other airlines into TLV if they overfly certain Muslim countries? in oth
65 777way : Silly to you maybe, they are meant to cause inconvinience. What hypocricy Wrong, dont know the situation regarding this in Africa, but its a ban is p
66 washingtonian : You don't think they are silly?
67 abrelosojos : = I find it silly because I don't believe they have successfully been able to a/ bring peace or b/ bring down Israel's economy. So, what point does i
68 reality : This is a very interesting thread. So far everyone has been pretty tactful even though some of these issues are controversial and complicated. I'm sur
69 airbazar : Don't see why they wouldn't. They've allowed everyone else who's ever wanted to, including EK who flies to AUS via SIN. QF has a hub in SIN.
70 Quokka : The issue for the passenger would not be Egypt - Israel recognition but that the passenger was flying to DXB with an Israeli visa. Gate agents normal
71 777way : No Arab airlne is craving to serve TLV and MS and LY are also only doing so as a token of respect for their peace treaty, LY were going to quit CAI f
72 Post contains images Quokka : TK is not a Muslim carrier. While the majority of Turkey's inhabitants may be Muslim, the state itself is secular and there have been a couple of ins
73 EL-AL : My original post was deleted because its refrenced post was deleted, here it is, revised: ....those restrictions (- not allowing Israeli airlines to f
74 IAD380 : Probably not! Nor does LY seem very interested in flying to Arab cities. Even if a comprehensive peace treaty finally resolved the conflicts between
75 originalblis : Will the airlines of countries that ban ElAl flyover rights fly over Israel? (not that Israel is so large as to be a hindrance to fly around)
76 milesrich : Malaysia is a Muslim state, is it not? That would explain it, would it not?
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